Antelope Island

slamdunk

slamdunk

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Sure been quiet about Alcatraz this year, anyone been up snooping around?

There was a giant buck leftover from last year that should be #1 on the hit list for the rich and famous.
 
grizzly said:
I never saw any charges, I wonder if it was all fake
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I was up there last year right after it happened and a Division guy told me the story himself as he was a witness and watched that buck daily.
I don't think there were ever any charges filed.
He said, and I quote "they were told to never come back to hunt the island again".
Who knows.....

But after seeing that Mike Foulks hunted bear with that particular outfitter this spring, It's hard to put much stock in the "suspension".
 
Must be tight lipped if a guide who has numerous big bulls to his name over 20 years but none to himself hasn’t heard a peep!
 
slamdunk said:
I was up there last year right after it happened and a Division guy told me the story himself as he was a witness and watched that buck daily.
I don't think there were ever any charges filed.
He said, and I quote "they were told to never come back to hunt the island again".
Who knows.....

But after seeing that Mike Foulks hunted bear with that particular outfitter this spring, It's hard to put much stock in the "suspension".
Click to expand...
Ummm, who's Mike Foulks?
 
deerkiller said:
Trying to decide what’s more impressive... shooting a trophy sheep in a unit not valid for your hunters tag and getting away with it or shooting a trophy buck in an area that’s closed to hunting and getting away with it... both must have some mighty fine golden knee pads
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As long as they get that logo stamp on the picture.Doesn't matter how and where‼️
 
So I'm curious as to what this particular outfitter did on Antelope Island? I heard they got banned but never why exactly.
 
I have always drooled over the Antelope Island bucks.
I see someone posting here about "tame bucks". Are they not free range bucks?
 
HAP said:
So I'm curious as to what this particular outfitter did on Antelope Island? I heard they got banned but never why exactly.
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I believe they were trying to herd said buck into an area where they could shoot it. It is against the rules to be off trail on the island normally.

That buck was never taken on the island.
 
middlefork said:
I believe they were trying to herd said buck into an area where they could shoot it. It is against the rules to be off trail on the island normally.

That buck was never taken on the island.
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Yes....it entered into the campground area on the north end which is the "free zone" and they tried pushing it back through the fence but it decided to swim instead.
 
slamdunk said:
Yes....it entered into the campground area on the north end which is the "free zone" and they tried pushing it back through the fence but it decided to swim instead.
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Doesn't harassing for the purpose of "take" fall under the definition of "hunting" per the Guidebook?

If that's the case, wouldn't the person be hunting without a license or hunting in a closed area?

I see one person above says charges were filed and another says they weren't?

If there was an Administrative Ban for that outfitter regarding guiding on Alcatraz, it seems there would be a GRAMA record of that.

It also seems there would be record with DOPL if any complaints were filed.

The lack of information regarding this story has me a little more than skeptical.
 
slamdunk said:
Yes....it entered into the campground area on the north end which is the "free zone" and they tried pushing it back through the fence but it decided to swim instead.
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Wait wait wait. I haven’t heard this detail of the story. They shot the damn thing swimming in the lake?
 
I was on the RAC board when the President of the Mule Deer Foundation was presenting this hunt and asking for it and that the deer harvested on it be considered free range so that they can be entered into the record books. I think I was the only one that asked about how this is considered free range, he said they can leave the island and come to the island from some range. I voted against it, thought it should be considered a canned hunt.
 
hossblur said:
Might want to explain the fencing that was installed to keep the sheep from leaving and how that's "free range"
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Wasn’t aware of a new fence, and regardless until that was installed, they could leave whenever they chose too. If that fence is new, all deer killed up until then should be considered free range
 
deerkiller said:
Wasn’t aware of a new fence, and regardless until that was installed, they could leave whenever they chose too. If that fence is new, all deer killed up until then should be considered free range
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The fence i am referring to is on the far northern end at the White Rock Campground.
The Buffalo pens are on the other side of that fence.
As far as I am aware, that fence is there to keep Buffalo out of the campgrounds and is the only retention fence I am aware of.......deer can obviously get over or around it.
 
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deerkiller said:
Wasn’t aware of a new fence, and regardless until that was installed, they could leave whenever they chose too. If that fence is new, all deer killed up until then should be considered free range
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They figured one of the sheep wandered across and mingled with the domestics on the lake shore and took the pneumonia back that ended up dooming the island sheep.

So with the transplant came a way to stop that.

So on the south you have fencing. On the North you have fencing. And, as was pointed out earlier, when this hunt was proposed, the island was still an island. Its a canned hunt. Its a hunt that never would have happened had THE DON not guaranteed a 6 figure pey day. There was zero appetite to open otherwise. Its the poster child for EVERYTHING $fw has brought to Utah. "Anything for a dollar", which should be their motto.

The proof of how sad it is. The best pics of the bucks on the island for years were taken by a paralyzed photographer, Yelum, unable to walk but still able to capture piles of huge bucks on film.Yet the $$$ trigger pullers need a guide. And in fact they need a guide, a key to the gate so they can drive around the island, and a weeks head start over the draw hunter.
 
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Your GRAMMAR SUCKS Hossy!

"Anything for a dollar"

It's: Anything for a Buck!

And it's "PEAYDAY" For GAWDS SAKES!
 
No it "anything for a dollar". They dont hive a chit about bucks, unless they can profit off one.

I edited pey day. Just for you?
 
The positive thing this hunt does, is 90% of the money generated from tag sales goes back to the island for the islands conservation and habitat projects, not operating costs.
The other 10% goes to costs associated with the auction (there lies controversy).
 
So it improves the habitat for deer that 2 people can hunt. Millions of dollars the last 10 years to improve habitat for 20 hunters.?

Come on slam, we both know this hunt had NOTHING to do with habitat. Or even a draw tag hunter. It happened because of its proximity to an airport, its ease of travel, and its supply of 200" plus bucks, and $fw grabbing 10% yearly.

Why do you suppose there isn't an Antelope hunt over there? Lots of antelope. Huge bucks.

But no one forking out 6 figures to shoot a speed goat, so that hunt isn't "necessary" to save the island", or improve habitat
 
hossblur said:
So it improves the habitat for deer that 2 people can hunt. Millions of dollars the last 10 years to improve habitat for 20 hunters.?

Come on slam, we both know this hunt had NOTHING to do with habitat. Or even a draw tag hunter. It happened because of its proximity to an airport, its ease of travel, and its supply of 200" plus bucks, and $fw grabbing 10% yearly.

Why do you suppose there isn't an Antelope hunt over there? Lots of antelope. Huge bucks.

But no one forking out 6 figures to shoot a speed goat, so that hunt isn't "necessary" to save the island", or improve habitat
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Lol.....easy Hossy.
I've never once stated that I am all for this "hunt" in which we all know it isn't, I am in favor of it's monies generated from outside sources.
It's just as stated in several posts...."basically a canned hunt"

And C'mon, those conservation projects aren't going just to the mule deer out there, it's for ALL the wildlife, especially the sheep which are transplanted all over our state and either sold or traded to other states wanting bighorn sheep.

Any dollar raised from an outside source is less of my tax dollars being spent.
 
It’s amazing there’s any ungulates on antelope island. The coyote population is high out there and according to @slamdunk coyotes are super predators ???
 
slamdunk said:
Lol.....easy Hossy.
I've never once stated that I am all for this "hunt" in which we all know it isn't, I am in favor of it's monies generated from outside sources.
It's just as stated in several posts...."basically a canned hunt"

And C'mon, those conservation projects aren't going just to the mule deer out there, it's for ALL the wildlife, especially the sheep which are transplanted all over our state and either sold or traded to other states wanting bighorn sheep.

Any dollar raised from an outside source is less of my tax dollars being spent.
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The sheep that Kuiu bought? How awesome $fw gets 10 % so Kuiu can supply sheep.

And lets be real. That island is 90% grass that burns every other year. There's a couple of livestock troughs. There's no habitat work.

My issue has always been bigger. That 6 figure tag opened a lot of eyes in the political class to fools and their money. With it THE DON showed we could sell wildlife to the highest bidder. And now we have 500+ auction tags, and the yearly big schlong contest in Feb.
 
Kuiu did donate this new family of sheep yes, but not from the last 10 years or the ten years of maintenance to come.

Look, it is what it is now whether we like it or not.
The alternative is letting PETA scream louder and shut it down and lose all the "new" outsource revenue?
Let's push for a couple antelope tags even if they only bring $2k, maybe that'll make a little added sense of fairness....why not?
 
I'm with you @hossblur on the big picture and everybody knows where I stand on SFW. But I'll say this, if a guy was to draw that tag and go hunt it DIY during the season I feel like it would still be a great HUNT. Those deer are not as easy to find before the rut and it's a big island to hunt by foot and glass if done DIY.

It certainly can be a "canned" hunt and historically has been, but I don't think it must be so.

I'll never shoot a pen-raised animal, but if I was offered the AI tag, I'd take it and hunt it the way I want to hunt it.

PS. I've been out and seen the fence, I don't think it is fully an enclosure, though that may change with the water year. Just my opinion.
 
Good post Grizzly.

Yes the fence isn't an "enclosure" but more so of a deterant for Buffalo.
Having said that, the deer aren't going to swim off that island, therefore I'd have to say they are more "land locked".
 
slamdunk said:
Kuiu did donate this new family of sheep yes, but not from the last 10 years or the ten years of maintenance to come.

Look, it is what it is now whether we like it or not.
The alternative is letting PETA scream louder and shut it down and lose all the "new" outsource revenue?
Let's push for a couple antelope tags even if they only bring $2k, maybe that'll make a little added sense of fairness....why not?
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I have YET to lose a sheep, deer, antelope, or buffalo hunt oppurtunity to PETA.

I have lost them to THE DON via $fw.

AI was the prime example of not letting the camels nose under the tent.

"We have a bunch of rich donors who want to fly in, shoot record book bucks, sleep at the Hilton and fly home"

Had THE DON said that I wouldn't have liked it, but at least he would of been honest.

The BS "save the island", habitat work was bullchit. He knows it, you know it, I know it.

But ya, its not going anywhere
 
grizzly said:
I'm with you @hossblur on the big picture and everybody knows where I stand on SFW. But I'll say this, if a guy was to draw that tag and go hunt it DIY during the season I feel like it would still be a great HUNT. Those deer are not as easy to find before the rut and it's a big island to hunt by foot and glass if done DIY.

It certainly can be a "canned" hunt and historically has been, but I don't think it must be so.

I'll never shoot a pen-raised animal, but if I was offered the AI tag, I'd take it and hunt it the way I want to hunt it.

PS. I've been out and seen the fence, I don't think it is fully an enclosure, though that may change with the water year. Just my opinion.
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Im all over this site saying "its legal" when the "shooting town deer " posts come up. AI is no different. Its legal.

No they arent tame. Yes they are HIGHLY desensitized to people and pressure. Much like the elk on the refuge or hardware. After a while they no longer act wild. Ill use Yelums catalog of pics out there and his confinement to a wheelchair to make my point(RIP Yelum)

Its a tiny island(peninsula now?). Split by a chain link fence. With very little fresh water. A DIY guy could have a good hunt.

The guided dudes?

I saw the video of the Jimmy Johns guy where he killed that elk. First thing he said is "im no hunter, these guys are hunters". Pretty refreshing honesty.

AI, with a guide, during the rut, only hunter on the island, with keys to the south and southwest roads?? Your a trigger. Barely.

Come on. It is what it is. A payoff to the deep pockets that find fw.Your
 
Yelum would be offended by your comment that you would use his pictures to prove all those big bucks he photographed were desensitized to humans. I took Yelum to the island a couple times. The bucks he photographed while I was with him were definitely not desensitized and were no where near the road. I doubt most people would have even seen them. He had some pretty good equipment. Yes, he and everyone else got pictures of some good bucks in the rut but most of his were not.
 
There will probably be a picture of this years MONEY buck posted in a few days. How many of you can say you ever saw this buck alive?
 
Bluehair said:
That guy walked so far he done polished his boots!
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That is pretty impressive. Must've shined those up after he got to his kill!

I guess that is what is sad about this. Beautiful, amazing deer taking by money. And it's not even the money so much. You want to fund the island and sell the tag, go for it..... But don't allow a guide to bring in the troops and make it brainless, no effort hunting. At least give the animals a small chance to make it. Sell the tag with the provision that no guide can be present and limit the hunt party to 2-3 people. Shouldn't take more than 1 person to get an animal on the island.......
 
When we start talking about SFW and their lust for monetizing wildlife, there isn’t much that doesn’t bother me. But...the AI hunt doesn’t bother me.
 
Old Cowboy said:
Yelum would be offended by your comment that you would use his pictures to prove all those big bucks he photographed were desensitized to humans. I took Yelum to the island a couple times. The bucks he photographed while I was with him were definitely not desensitized and were no where near the road. I doubt most people would have even seen them. He had some pretty good equipment. Yes, he and everyone else got pictures of some good bucks in the rut but most of his were not.
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I enjoyed discussing the island with Yelum. His pics were cool. He was an inspiring guy.

But it doesnt change the reality. His physical limitations were well known and substantial. Yet go look at his catalog.

Further. AI is ONLY accessible via road, and established trails. Bushwascking is not allowed. And Mossback doesnt have a key to the south side. Meaning somehow Doyle can find these wild, elusive bucks from the road or the handful of trails.

Even further. The local guys all know what Doyle drives, we all see him.

Like i said, I didnt go out this year, too many people, too expensive.

But the island hasn't changed. There is only so much water, so many place the bigger bucks hang.

You can go out any night of the year, and see 180 bucks, from the road. Every night. Because they are desensitized to car traffic, and to recreation hikers.

And you and Yelum know/knew it.
 
Been to the island many times. I would consider the hunt free range and am glad that it is being held.
 
doz said:
That is pretty impressive. Must've shined those up after he got to his kill!

I guess that is what is sad about this. Beautiful, amazing deer taking by money. And it's not even the money so much. You want to fund the island and sell the tag, go for it..... But don't allow a guide to bring in the troops and make it brainless, no effort hunting. At least give the animals a small chance to make it. Sell the tag with the provision that no guide can be present and limit the hunt party to 2-3 people. Shouldn't take more than 1 person to get an animal on the island.......
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I don't think the Division cares how the tag holders harvest their bucks, that is totally irrelevant to their objective.

No, a person doesn't "need" a guide out there, i completely agree.
But in reality, having a guide out there is really no different than having friends or family help you locate and kill a buck.

It's not always about the outfitters making money because in some instances, the outfitter has guided (pointed at) the bucks in exchange for nothing but photo rights.
 
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slamdunk said:
I don't think the Division cares how the tag holders harvest their bucks, that is totally irrelevant to their objective.

No, a person doesn't "need" a guide out there, i completely agree.
But in reality, having a guide out there is really no different than having friends or family help you locate and kill a buck.

It's not always about the outfitters making money because in some instances, the outfitter has guided (pointed at) the bucks in exchange for nothing but photo rights.
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Which said guide uses to promote themselves as the"only" AI guide. Hes not doing anything out of the goodness of his heart.

And it is different. Most likely your family and friends dont have a key to the gate. They probably dont have trail cams off trail(Bushwacking is prohibited). And they've never got first crack at the biggest on the island.

Other than that, yup, you dad or your brother and Mossback are the same.
 
hossblur said:
Which said guide uses to promote themselves as the"only" AI guide. Hes not doing anything out of the goodness of his heart.

And it is different. Most likely your family and friends dont have a key to the gate. They probably dont have trail cams off trail(Bushwacking is prohibited). And they've never got first crack at the biggest on the island.

Other than that, yup, you dad or your brother and Mossback are the same.
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Oh I'm not an advocate for what goes on out there, I just know there has been cases where fees are traded for watermarks.
Pictures can add more value to an outfitter long term than a few dozen Franklin's.

And yes, if keys are borrowed out, that should be across the board.
 
slamdunk said:
And yes, if keys are borrowed out, that should be across the board.
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Do we have any reason to believe it isn't?

Do we have any reason to believe bushwhacking is not allowed of both tag holders?

I've never spoken to a AI tag holder to know if their rules were really different than the guide's rules.

There are real problems in Utah's "pay to play" hunting, but is this really one of them or just more unsubstantiated conjecture?

I just don't want to see everybody all irate if it's not a problem in the first place. The are plenty of legitimate places that need fixing to focus on if this is just more fake news.
 
slamdunk said:
@grizzly
I agree 100%
No one person, guide or otherwise should have special rights on that island over anyone else, and I would certainly hope that is the case.
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There are some special rights given out. I have seen them open the gate and drive through with my own eyes. They aren't trying to hide it. I believe they have access to anywhere on the island except for the North (Closed) end. Just watch the You Tube video with the Fierce Firearms Guy. They are not on any designated trail when they chase that buck from ridge to ridge. Its no different than the access given for the draw tag winners of the shed hunts right ? Those guys dont have to stay on the trails. Do they close the island while the hunt is going on ? I cant imagine they want spectators. This I dont know.
 
cantkillathing said:
Has the public hunter Killed yet?
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He killed a giant typical.
This is what mossback had to say about it.
"
"Matt Denning beat the odds and got the "SUCCESSFUL" email most of us can only dream of. We started scouting immediately and had a solid hitlist going. After looking at many many giants, Matt decided he wanted to try and harvest a huge Typical buck.

This old boy didn't make anything easy and after a few days of 6-7 miles hiking a day we were finally able to catch up to this nomad and Matt put an amazing shot on him and all the work had finally paid off.

Congrats Matt you really did put the work in! Thanks for letting us be part of your once in a lifetime hunt and special thanks to all those who helped make this happen!!"


I can't believe they couldn't just pulled up and shoot it from the road opening morning.
I little different story than what hossblur and the other haters wants everyone to believe the island hunt is like.
 
ridgetops said:
He killed a giant typical.
This is what mossback had to say about it.
"
"Matt Denning beat the odds and got the "SUCCESSFUL" email most of us can only dream of. We started scouting immediately and had a solid hitlist going. After looking at many many giants, Matt decided he wanted to try and harvest a huge Typical buck.

This old boy didn't make anything easy and after a few days of 6-7 miles hiking a day we were finally able to catch up to this nomad and Matt put an amazing shot on him and all the work had finally paid off.

Congrats Matt you really did put the work in! Thanks for letting us be part of your once in a lifetime hunt and special thanks to all those who helped make this happen!!"


I can't believe they couldn't just pulled up and shoot it from the road opening morning.
I little different story than what hossblur and the other haters wants everyone to believe the island hunt is like.
Click to expand...


Last year I was listening to the WB. Doyle spoke. He started by explaining how the guides in this state were so badass. That if the was in charge in Iraq it would have been over in a day.

I also heated him tell the WB a year or two before that elk in the state sucked so bad he would never guide the gov or sportsman elk tag again

So perhaps, just maybe, Doyle is full of chit?

28k acres. I believe the longest loop trail out there is just about 7 miles, maybe 8. 28k includes the roads, marina, campground, ranch house, state ranger compound. It includes the rocky ledge area where the sheep are, and deer arent.

Oh, and that ever tricky part about the GSL being salt water, so there's only so many fresh water sources.

Now ill concede that perhaps Doyle has a fit bit and if he shakes it a lot, it builds his step count, but ID love to see his mileage tracker.


But as always. You dont have to believe me. $15, a short ride. See for yourself
 
Look past the deer. First pic, that big Grey flat mass is the lakebed. Between deer and lakebed, that look like real rugged terrain?

Look at 2nd. Shows that terrain look?

BTW. In both pics, there is a road between the hunter and the lake bed. It circles the whole island.

Screenshot_20201117-185425_Instagram.jpg


5A55C801-6607-44F9-8D90-547F9847CD1A.jpeg
 
I wonder if after the hunt these guys thought hmmm probably could have done that on my own? What does Doyle charge for a shoot like this? Neat bucks regardless! I wonder how they decided who got the big one? Took the big money guy in first and killed his while the public guy stayed in his room at the Grand America? "Ok next, you're turn now" You think the public guy really wanted a "big typical" or was that his only choice after the big one was already dead?
 
Hey BO!

When You Pull the ALCATRAZ Tag You're Gonna Get a Free Guided Hunt!

Rather You Want it or Not!:D

They Ain't Running Around Everywhere Like Most People Think they are!

But I'll Bet there's a few Other Bucks that Would Foot The Bill!


Bocephus said:
I wonder if after the hunt these guys thought hmmm probably could have done that on my own? What does Doyle charge for a shoot like this? Neat bucks regardless! I wonder how they decided who got the big one? Took the big money guy in first and killed his while the public guy stayed in his room at the Grand America? "Ok next, you're turn now" You think the public guy really wanted a "big typical" or was that his only choice after the big one was already dead?
Click to expand...
 
I have been told that Doyle offers his help and I don't think he is charging. Sure those pictures help his business. What guide wouldn't want his picture taken with one of those bucks. I will never sniff a AI tag but if I did I would welcome Doyles help. Lots of stories on MM where he has helped steer hunters the right way.
 

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