Antler Question.

fatrooster · Jul 20, 2004

Ok, I keep hearing that antler growth is related to moisture and in drought years the antler growth will be stunted. But in the last several years we've seen plenty of giant elk taken with monster scores in states like Utah, Nevada, and Arizona just to name a couple of deserty states. I'm beginning to question that theory. We've got elk in the East and we've got them in the far West such as the Pacific coastal states and both of these places recieve plenty of rainfall. Why aren't the world record elk coming from these areas. Too much moisture? I'm getting confused. Fatrooster.

RACKMASTER · Jul 20, 2004

THE WESTERN ELK(COASTAL)ARE ROOSEVELTS RECORD IS LIKE 386"
SOME STATE HAVE MANY OTHERS LIKE THE TULE ELK(IN CA) WHICH IS THE SMALLEST ,AND THEN THEIRS THE ROCKY MT. HERE IN CA WE HAVE ALL THREE OUR ROCKY ARE A SUB SPEICES! SOME ARE NOT! MONSTERS ARE IN MOST STATES. ANTLER SIZE IS DETERMED FROM GENES, HABITAT, FOOD, WATER, HUNTING SUCCESS AND PRESSURE, PREDITORS!
RACKMASTER

MartinHunter · Jul 20, 2004

I think it is because most giant elk that have been taken in the past few years have been taken in states that I believe alow game ranches, such as Chuck Adams in Montana (someone tell me if I am wrong please.) Places in Wyoming were there is a lot of public land, and no farm raised game the hunting pressure is a lot greater.
Michael

soupcreek · Jul 20, 2004

Like Rackmaster stated, there are a lot of different things that contribute to antler growth. I believe that the most important of the factors is genetics. That is why you see many record book animals coming out of the same general areas (there are exceptions).
A year with good rain will take a good buck and make it better. It will take a poor buck and may make it decent. It will not take a buck with inferior genes and make a monster out of it.
If the rainfall/snowfall in your area has been good this year, you can expect that all the bucks will be just a little better than if there was little rain or snow.
That being said, I know a few guys who would gladly add 5-10 inches of total score to the bucks they are hunting. I'll take the rain if God is willing to send it.

IdahoBugler · Jul 21, 2004

I think it's safe to say that a lot of these trophies are coming from limited entry hunts. So the animals have time to grow to their record class size.

IB

Tuffbucker · Jul 21, 2004

Here in Utah I think its a combination of things. First, most of the trophy deer and elk are coming off of limited entry units, which allow them to grow to or close to their full potenital. THe second reason is, although we have been in a major drought, we have had some pretty good rainfall, which has provided the vegetation needed during the important stages of antler growth.

TUFF

ICMDEER · Jul 25, 2004

There are three requirements to get a buck or bull to grow big antlers. They are age, nutrition and genetics. Bucks and bulls get older on limited entry or controlled units, as well as some well-managed private ranches (like Sonora, etc). Some areas have better genetics than others, but I'd argue that nutrition related to moisture is way over rated.

I have the belief that nutrient density is critical. If the feed gets too high in moisture, the critters do not get as much in the way of nutrients - they just get water in the feed. Since their rumens have limited capacity, they can only hold so much feed. And if a high percentage of the feed eaten is water or moisture, they don't get as much in the way of nutrients. I know this is true on cattle, so I'm convinced it holds true on wild ungulates, (like deer and elk) too.

Here in Wyoming, some of the best antlers are grown in dry years. Wildlife always seems to travel and find the good feed.

Just my two cents worth.

saminwy · Jul 25, 2004

deer aren't ruminants.

txhunter58 · Jul 25, 2004

LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-04 AT 07:17AM (MST)[p]Saminwy: You are misinformed. Deer are indeed ruminants. A ruminant has four parts to its stomach: The reticulum, rumen, omasum, and abomasum (true stomach). Deer do have all of these. Elk are in the deer family and are ruminants too.

As far as the antler question. As stated above, rainfall/nutrition is an important factor in antler growth, but nature likes moderation in all things. If you get too much rain, the moisture content of feed may play a role, but there are also more parasites to pull them down (internal worms and external parasites such as ticks, flys, etc. You also have to factor in growing season. I suspect that southern areas such as AZ have a longer growing season for plants since it warms up sooner in the spring and gets cold later in the fall. That said, I read something about the elk in AZ being somewhat related to an ancient elk that have superior gentetics when it comes to growing antlers.

Bottom line is that if you put 2 genetically related elk the same age in side by side pens and feed one better, that one will have bigger antlers.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)