Any business owners file for PPP?

desperatehills

desperatehills

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I own a auto repair and have 3 employees that work for me. We have been in business since 1983. We always have a full schedule, typically it takes a week to get in. Since the virus and stay at home orders have started my business has plummeted. We have pre scheduled only 3 jobs for this week and have one written for next. We still get calls for work and can bring those right in without appointment.

I have decided to keep all my employees on. They are all salary so the slow times don't hurt them like it would if they were paid flat rate. When they do not have a job in their bay we are getting caught up on shop maintenance.

The PPP (paycheck protection program) will help me greatly with my decision to stay open and keep everyone working. I have filed for the SBA advance as well as 2 1/2 months of payroll through the PPP program. The process has been challenging. I had to do the SBA application twice because they changed some of the language in it. I did not get notified about the change in form from SBA, the drive through teller told me to refile or I would have never known. I sent all my payroll reports and applications through a online application with my bank for the ppp loan. A week after a different teller for my bank at a different branch told me I had to give them paper applications, the attachments that were requested with the online application would not be used. When I refiled with my bank it turns out my original online application was sent to a branch that is 200 miles away and was in the system.

Now I wait.....with my application at a branch that doesn't know me....hoping to get approved. Have any other MM'ers applied? How has the process gone for you? At 54 years old this is the first time I have ever applied for any form of assistance. My wife and I have never been unemployed, on food assistance, hell I didn't even qualify for cash for clunkers. The money I applied for will barely cover my Quarterly tax estimate I intend to send off today.
 
Back in the 1970's my mother refused to accept welfare because it was "For poor people", the clothes I was wearing were given to us by neighbors and had already been worn by my three older brothers. Sometimes we "borrowed" entire meals from our neighbors to feed our family.
Under normal conditions I would have passed on the PPP program because I don't like the strings attached to any help from the government and the unintended consequences of owing money to The Man.
But, I did apply for this program. While I feel I could continue to pay essential workers through this, we have an assortment of other employees that would have to be eliminated over the long haul. These would be hard cuts for us and include a spouse of a worker that died during a non-work related surgery and another former employee that had chronic breathing problems and was no longer able to work. It's important for us to continue to help these people as they would be in dire straights without our assistance.
We haven't received any money and have no idea when or if we will, but we have already established an separate account where any money will only be used for wages and will not be used for any other purpose.

Busted
 
Guys I have only had to lay off workers twice in the career of my company. It made me sick to do it. But you have to do it. I would suggest not borrowing any money to keep an employee. The Company you save during this down turn is more important than the personal relationships you may have with those ladies and gentlemen. The employees you keep are depending on you to make these hard job decisions so those few can survive this down turn. You can do it guys.
 
The PPP is the opposite of welfare. This program was created to keep people working and businesses open. The PPP is called a "loan" but its really a grant. Nearly all businesses will qualify for full, or nearly full, forgiveness if they remain open and maintain their payroll. Its designed to allow small businesses to retain employees and infrastructure so that they can continue to operate despite a significant loss of revenue due to the COVID 19 restrictions. If small businesses don't have have access to this type of program many will close and instead of working (as the OP mentioned) their employees will be collecting unemployment. Which would you rather have ? Most small business owners have been paying plenty of taxes through the years and are the backbone of the american economy. I applied on behalf of the company I run and we have already received our "loan". DH - You really need to see your banker or loan officer NOT the teller. The application isn't overwhelming but it needs to be done right the first time or you risk being disqualified.
 
I applied with our local credit union. I was emailing the gal working on my app at 9:35 pm the other night. That is what is nice about LOCAL credit unions. We have 18 girls not working right now...not that the men don't want to come in for service...it's just that the law won't allow it. We are still paying for their hotel rooms but not sure how long we can afford to do that before we run out of $$ and have to ship them back.

Kidding....

I have had a good experience so far with PPP but haven't received the "loan" yet. I emailed them this am and have not heard back. Last I heard it was sent for approval. We asked for a minimal amount in hopes that things are back to normal mid May. I wish all of you luck.
 
" Nearly all businesses will qualify for full, or nearly full, forgiveness if they remain open and maintain their payroll. "

So the economy keeps going down hill and you finally do the responsible thing and lay someone off at your company, and the government now goes back to calling your grant that was originally a loan back into a loan and you have to pay it back now?????

As a business man I need a definite plan. Not vague loans that might become grants that might become loans again if you don't run your business the way THE MAN tells you to run your business. Sorry fellas I am going to try and run a company the old fashioned way. Scale up and scale down. I don't want to dance with the devil and loose more sleep at night.
 
Tristate, you sound like a seasoned business operator and probably a good one.
We run a family business and have done so for almost 30 years. We have seen our share of ups and downs and during those normal swings your advice makes sense, but these are far from normal times.
I don't mind taking a risk for the people that have put food on my table all of these years so that I can put food on theirs.

Busted
 
Thanks chipc, I have spoke with the loan officer at our bank twice now. Our banks are only open in the drive thru. I have to call her and she has to call me back.

Tristate, I understand what you are telling me. I will stay open and so far we have taken in enough work that we are not going backwards. The trouble with laying off my employees is not knowing when the phone will ring. For example, today we are buried, we will not finish all the work today and will carry some over for tomorrow. If my guys are at home I would need to turn work away. You are 100% right about the vagueness of the loans. If I get one it will be forgivable because I didn't stop paying my workers. Many businesses have already let there workers go. If they are approved they will bring workers back but only a portion of the loan will be forgiven.
 
Tri - I'm not sure whats so difficult to understand. This is not a mandate. Its an option. If you want to try to remain open and keep your employees working this is a way to help do that. If you close or lay people off the money you don't spend on payroll must be paid back. Why would you lay someone off if you didn't have to - so they can sit home and collect unemployment - or welfare ? THE MAN isn't telling you anything. These are your decisions. If you want to run your business the "old fashioned way" thats completely up to you. Just don't look down your nose at people who are trying their best to keep their business running and their employees working.
 
"I don't mind taking a risk for the people that have put food on my table all of these years so that I can put food on theirs."

Busted, what you are saying sounds admirable. You were taking risks all those days those people were working for you. And you were working for them. What I am hoping you understand is you are making them all take bigger risks now instead of just a couple of employees . By letting some go you save the others. I know it sucks. Like I said before I hate doing it, but that's how I kept from puting ALL of my employees in the unemployment line.

The only way I see this making sense is if you already have some debt and you can exchange this loan for that debt. Besides that I feel it is a double whammy. Not only can it put your company at a higher risk of going under but with all the money they are printing who knows what it will do to all the children's futures of the families you are trying to help.


These decisions are just the tip of the iceberg. I really tried to persuade everyone to go to work.

Good luck fellas.
 
" Just don't look down your nose at people who are trying their best to keep their business running and their employees working. "

I haven't looked down my nose at any of these people, Chip. I am trying to give them sound business advice because I want them to remain solvent. I don't want them and all of their employees to loose their livelihoods. This ain't about pride or self-righteousness. This is about surviving and that's what I want for all of us. Quit trying to be offended and realize I want to help.
 
"Why would you lay someone off if you didn't have to - so they can sit home and collect unemployment - or welfare ? "

That's the same as unemployment or welfare. The only difference is you hand them the check now.
 
I applied with UsBank but haven't received anything yet. A friend of mine went through a local bank and got his funds last week. Just goes to show that it pays to bank locally.

As far as the strings attached and working for the man, this is a 1% loan that can be repaid at any time with no penalty so there's really no downside. You can still lay everyone off and give the money back if you choose so I don't see the risk.
 
Tristate, you own a taxidermy correct? Must be a good sized one if you have that many employees. I have seen your work here, it is top notch. I know several taxidermist, they are all one man bands. It is impressive if you can do that quality with multiple guys doing the work.

One of the questions we are asked is if the pandemic has affected our business. I could see the pandemic having very little effect on a taxidermist. I suspect you take a majority of your work in the fall. You may miss some spring bears and in Texas maybe some of the ranch hunting is year round. Maybe you can tell us if the virus has caused you to lose any income. If it has caused a loss of income you are being foolish to not apply. I get almost sick every quarter when I mail in my estimated taxes. For once in my life I hope to see some of that money back.
 
Desperatehills,

I have 4.5 employees. We have a lot of back log right now. But as best I can tell somewhere around July we are going to crash. All of my clients who had global trips this spring and some of the ones from early summer have all been canceled. It may end up that even the late summer trips get canceled.

Unfortunately I will probably have to lay off at least one employee and slash hours for the remaining three just to see if that gets me to fall and then I can re-access the situation from there.
 
I didn't take Tristates comments to be anything more than advice from one business owner to another, and certainly not personally.
We run about 70 employees with 50 or so in the field, 10 in the office, and another 10 fringe employees that I consider special circumstance. Those last 10 employees are the most at risk economically and medically. They will be the hardest hit if someone doesn't help them.
 
I salute all you employers who are facing this through no fault of your own. I'd be proud to work for any of you. Having spent 40+ years as an employee, my goal was to always do the right thing for my employer because if he did good I kept working. I hope you all get through this.
 
Tristate said:
" Just don't look down your nose at people who are trying their best to keep their business running and their employees working. "

I haven't looked down my nose at any of these people, Chip. I am trying to give them sound business advice because I want them to remain solvent. I don't want them and all of their employees to loose their livelihoods. This ain't about pride or self-righteousness. This is about surviving and that's what I want for all of us. Quit trying to be offended and realize I want to help.
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Sorry if I'm a little defensive. Its been a tough 6 weeks for all of us. My employees are scared for their jobs, their health, and their loved ones. They look to me for answers and leadership and I wish I had more for them. No one wants to take assistance do help run their business. We're all independent businessmen - with the emphasis on "independent". This program might help us survive until we can again craft our own future. I know not everyone agrees with that and I guess thats their right.
 
Tristate said:
"Why would you lay someone off if you didn't have to - so they can sit home and collect unemployment - or welfare ? "

That's the same as unemployment or welfare. The only difference is you hand them the check now.
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So working is the same as welfare or unemployment ? I guess we'll just have to disagree on that one. I do hope that, whatever path you take, its successful and that you and your business continue to succeed. Chip
 
"So working is the same as welfare or unemployment ? "

No. But we aren't talking about working. If someone was going to get layed off it was because there isn't work to do. So now we just pay people to show up to a business that doesn't have work for them to do?????
 
I applied and I was told I am approved for a small PPP loan to get me through these couple of months where I can't bill any work. You don't have to pay it back if you use it for payroll, utilities, pension, health and welfare. Once you do your quarterly taxes and show what you spent it on and if it is what has been ok'd to do so you do not have to pay it back.

Over the years as a business owner I have paid my fair share of taxes in fact it seems to be more than my fair share. If the Government is offering to help you out like this it would be crazy not to accept their offer...
 
Tristate said:
"So working is the same as welfare or unemployment ? "

No. But we aren't talking about working. If someone was going to get layed off it was because there isn't work to do. So now we just pay people to show up to a business that doesn't have work for them to do?????
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In several of our "essential" businesses volume has dropped by 30 - 50 %. So, with this assistance we can keep the doors open, have our employees work their regular duties 25 or 30 hours and spend the other 10- 15 hours doing maintenance, extra cleaning and etc... Without this assistance they would be laid off. They would receive 1/2 of their pay in state unemployment compensation PLUS $600 per week from the federal government. Our business would then be closed and not purchasing goods and supplies from our vendors and driving our customers elsewhere or leaving them without products they need. Once a business closes, even only for a short period of time, the chances of it reopening successfully decrease exponentially. So, yes, in my opinion we do pay people to show up to a business that might not have full employment for them.
 
+1 DeerHunter. San Juan, its pretty likely that more funds will be appropriated soon. I think you'll be ok. I hope so.
 
So now we do in house maintenance on tools, and machines that aren't doing anything because there isn't work and the cleaning So that is a whole lot of looking busy for a paycheck. Meanwhile the contractors that normally get paid for contract maintenance and cleaning just got put out of their jobs that they normally did for all these busy people. Who gives self employed people a ppp now that they can't work so you could reface the welfare you are giving employees?

Look, I really hope you can keep your business solvent but don't feel you need to re-brand welfare for me. You aren't selling me a car. I'm a big boy and I can handle the truth. I am already skeptical of the government printing money and handing it out. It doesn't help my skepticism when someone starts trying to spin it.
 
I got a call from my bank yesterday so I know they are working on it.

The article I read yesterday said 292 billion of the 350 billion is spoken for. If there is any money left I am sure it will be gone today. Once it is gone congress will have more pressure to approve the additional 200 billion that the republicans requested.
 
Tristate said:
So now we do in house maintenance on tools, and machines that aren't doing anything because there isn't work and the cleaning So that is a whole lot of looking busy for a paycheck. Meanwhile the contractors that normally get paid for contract maintenance and cleaning just got put out of their jobs that they normally did for all these busy people. Who gives self employed people a ppp now that they can't work so you could reface the welfare you are giving employees?

Look, I really hope you can keep your business solvent but don't feel you need to re-brand welfare for me. You aren't selling me a car. I'm a big boy and I can handle the truth. I am already skeptical of the government printing money and handing it out. It doesn't help my skepticism when someone starts trying to spin it.
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Most Taxidermists I know, even the bad ones are booked out at least a year in advance? But most of them dont work out of their garage.
 
Tristate said:
So now we do in house maintenance on tools, and machines that aren't doing anything because there isn't work and the cleaning So that is a whole lot of looking busy for a paycheck. Meanwhile the contractors that normally get paid for contract maintenance and cleaning just got put out of their jobs that they normally did for all these busy people. Who gives self employed people a ppp now that they can't work so you could reface the welfare you are giving employees?

Look, I really hope you can keep your business solvent but don't feel you need to re-brand welfare for me. You aren't selling me a car. I'm a big boy and I can handle the truth. I am already skeptical of the government printing money and handing it out. It doesn't help my skepticism when someone starts trying to spin it.
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I'd much rather have people "looking busy for a paycheck" than receiving far more more government money sitting on their couch at home. I tried to explain my philosophy and how we hope to keep our business afloat and you accuse me of "re-branding welfare" - or "You aren't selling me a car" etc, etc...?? this after you told me "Quit trying to be offended" ? Seriously. I get it. You don't like it. Thats up to you. I respect your right to your own opinion. However, don't imply that I'm "trying to be offended" when you make remarks like that.
 
Trees again, you always try some
Sort of gotcha.

Some
Of the very best in the business work out of their garage.

Most taxidermists I know, work out of their garage.
 
I'm trying to understand it CHipC. I want to know why the federal government has decided we as small business owners should be the vectors for welfare in this crisis. There has to be an upside to this different distribution model, right? So what is it?

How long do you have to retain these "employees" to keep this a grant instead of a loan? How long are you supposed to plan on retaining these "employees"? Do they automatically renew your payment once a company has run out of money to pay these employees?

You get offended because I told you that "you aren't selling me a car"????? Really. That's offensive????
 
Well it looks like I got in. My loan has been approved, documents have been signed, and funds are ready to be released.

I only applied for my three employees salary. I did not include my salary. Because I take draws I felt the rules were unclear and did not want to risk getting denied. We are still open and the last two days have been fairly busy. I have almost no work on the books but the phone is ringing just enough to keep us plugging along. We will come out the other side of this virus no worse for wear.
 
Tristate said:
So now we do in house maintenance on tools, and machines that aren't doing anything because there isn't work and the cleaning So that is a whole lot of looking busy for a paycheck. Meanwhile the contractors that normally get paid for contract maintenance and cleaning just got put out of their jobs that they normally did for all these busy people. Who gives self employed people a ppp now that they can't work so you could reface the welfare you are giving employees?

Look, I really hope you can keep your business solvent but don't feel you need to re-brand welfare for me. You aren't selling me a car. I'm a big boy and I can handle the truth. I am already skeptical of the government printing money and handing it out. It doesn't help my skepticism when someone starts trying to spin it.
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Self employed people can get PPP too.
 
Didn't file for PPP....but got my stimulus check the other day...turned it into Gold yesterday..
 
I watched in the last recession as construction companies tried to help employees by paying them to do maintenance, yard work, etc. Many quickly exhausted the buisness cash, then exhausted personal savings. Then went broke.

It's a real tough place to be. Especially as you watch weekly the goal posts moved further.

I view the PPP/SBA as restitution. If the government burned your shop down, they would have to cover it. Thus is no different.

But we all know you rich buisness owners have $$$$ falling out of your pockets every step you take. Bernie told us so?
 
hossblur said:
I watched in the last recession as construction companies tried to help employees by paying them to do maintenance, yard work, etc. Many quickly exhausted the buisness cash, then exhausted personal savings. Then went broke.

It's a real tough place to be. Especially as you watch weekly the goal posts moved further.

I view the PPP/SBA as restitution. If the government burned your shop down, they would have to cover it. Thus is no different.

But we all know you rich buisness owners have $$$$ falling out of your pockets every step you take. Bernie told us so?
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Hossblur you are right on! I tried during 08=09 to keep a business going and went bust. Spent the last 12 years rebuilding ...now this ....one step forward 3 steps back. Sounds like NO ONE has RECEIVED a dollar yet on the forum. Good luck and Godspeed to all that invested blood, sweat and life savings into their businesses!
 
Dconcrete said:
Trees again, you always try some
Sort of gotcha.

Some
Of the very best in the business work out of their garage.

Most taxidermists I know, work out of their garage.
Click to expand...

How many professional Taxidermists with employees work out of their garage? By brother does Taxidermy on the side and even he does not work out of his garage.
 
I heard that a lot of the money was gobbled up by hedge fund operators and financial institutions, but more money is coming for those who really need it..
 
My PPP funds hit my account today. I feel like I should take cookies to the bank. I know those girls are buried and I feel very fortunate that my loan got processed before funds ran out.
 
I tried to tip the person who brought our groceries out, and youda thought I was handing her a turd. I'm not woke I guess.
 
My companie’s funds should hit our account with in a couple days. It was a fairly quick and easy application process for us, but how smooth it went probably varied between banks.
 
Our loan was funded today. We used a regional bank and from what I am hearing, the larger the bank you used the slower the loans were made due to high volume. Good luck to everyone!
 
Wells Fargo bank is getting sued because they did not process the PPP loans on a first come, first served basis as was expected. Seems they may have hand selected who got the loans. I wonder who was the ones that were hand selected.

RELH
 
RELH said:
Wells Fargo bank is getting sued because they did not process the PPP loans on a first come, first served basis as was expected. Seems they may have hand selected who got the loans. I wonder who was the ones that were hand selected.

RELH
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I could see this happening at every bank. Anyone that applied and did not get funded only needs to find someone that applied after them and received funds. This could get ugly
 
hossblur said:
I watched in the last recession as construction companies tried to help employees by paying them to do maintenance, yard work, etc. Many quickly exhausted the buisness cash, then exhausted personal savings. Then went broke.

It's a real tough place to be. Especially as you watch weekly the goal posts moved further.

I view the PPP/SBA as restitution. If the government burned your shop down, they would have to cover it. Thus is no different.

But we all know you rich buisness owners have $$$$ falling out of your pockets every step you take. Bernie told us so?
Click to expand...
right tax the rich who said we are rich? Oh yeah Pocahontas that is the way she was going to solve everything. Tax the rich I wish someone would have called her on the carpet and made her do the math to show how it works.......LOL Oh yeah every business is rich we have so much money we don't know where to spend it all......
 
I will guarantee you Wells Fargo messed this up. I put in at 5am on the 4th which was when their application was up. Got an email saying my application was received. They put the big loans first and just screwed the little guys. My buddy is getting $2 million and he was doing just fine with his business. Only 17% went to loans under $100000 and they represent 74% of all small business. What a circle jerk.
 
I was concerned my bank was too small, turned out to be a advantage.


Did anyone get the SBA advance?

The first application I filled out had a box to check for a $10,000 advance. I received a email stating they would only give $1000 per employee with 10K being the max. I never received anything more from them. I suspect the PPP loan may have cancelled it. Has anyone gotten the advance and not the PPP loan?
 

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