Any CVA Paramount owners?? Need advice

B

BuckshotBenny

Member
Messages
45
Hello All.

I need some advice from hopefully some paramount owners. I have Mule deer hunt coming up in 2 weeks.

Here’s the deal…new gun, new scope. I’ve shot 4 times now and have about a 3 inch group at 200 yards. The shots that feels great usually are in the bullseye. The ones I may have tweaked it are usually to the right. So I’m pretty satisfied with my group to hunt with since my mishits are probably just me.

I’ve read that with BH some guys are cleaning their gun anywhere from 30 and even read up to 80 shots. I have 30 since my last cleaning. Should I just put it away until after my hunt? Or clean and shoot some before? It seems with a fresh clean shots are off for a bit. Any experience with that?

Also to throw another wrench in, I’m getting blowback through the breech plug and it’s pretty fouled along with my adapters. CVA is sending me a new bolt spring/breech plug/ adapters that should be here tomorrow. Should I replace everything, clean the gun and start over or just get through the hunt as is?

Thanks.
 
I have some blow back occasionally with my paramount. I’ve put 50 or so shots through mine and haven’t cleaned it yet. It’s still easy to load and accurate so I haven’t worried about it.
 
CFMuley said:
I have some blow back occasionally with my paramount. I’ve put 50 or so shots through mine and haven’t cleaned it yet. It’s still easy to load and accurate so I haven’t worried about it.
Click to expand...
I have blowback on every shot. It really fouls the breech plug and adapters. My groups today.

ED06453E-829A-4E07-AC2A-B7FEBCCCF1CF.jpeg


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I’d try the replacement they’re sending you, and if that isn’t solving it, look into the aftermarket one that’s offered for the Paramount. This close to your hunt, I wouldn’t mess with anything though. Those groups could be better, but they’re certainly adequate. Who knows what can of worms you may open changing things right now.
 
CFMuley said:
I’d try the replacement they’re sending you, and if that isn’t solving it, look into the aftermarket one that’s offered for the Paramount. This close to your hunt, I wouldn’t mess with anything though. Those groups could be better, but they’re certainly adequate. Who knows what can of worms you may open changing things right now.
Click to expand...
That’s my fear. Are you talking about the arrowhead breech plug kit?
 
I’d have to look into the aftermarket breach plug I’ve seen. I used the anarchy break, but was finding pieces of the skirt as well so I run mine without a break now.
 
CFMuley said:
No, I just load it and shoot. I know it’s not technically the correct way to do it, but it still loads east and accuracy has remained unchanged.
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Do you fire a primer to dry the breech plug before your first shot for the day? Do you notice your first for the day is off left or right?
 
BuckshotBenny said:
Do you fire a primer to dry the breech plug before your first shot for the day? Do you notice your first for the day is off left or right?
Click to expand...
I fire a primer after cleaning, but that’s it. I haven’t noticed much cold bite deviation with the Paramounts. I’ve set up 4 of them now and they’ve all been extremely easy, and straight killers.
 
I am in the same boat. Hunt opens on 9/28. I currently have 7 shots through the gun and the last 5 were perfect. I have been advised to clean the breech plug but leave the barrel dirty. First shot after a cleaning has been 6 inches right consistantly. Shots after that are right back on target
 
OpeningDay said:
I am in the same boat. Hunt opens on 9/28. I currently have 7 shots through the gun and the last 5 were perfect. I have been advised to clean the breech plug but leave the barrel dirty. First shot after a cleaning has been 6 inches right consistantly. Shots after that are right back on target
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info guys.

My parts have been delayed until Monday. I’m going to replace the breech plug, bolt spring, and veriflame adapters. I will clean the gun and then get some shots in for testing and then I’ll put it away for the hunt.

CVA sent me an email this morning that their recommendation is cleaning after 10-15 shots but he stated that’s on the cautious side. Seeing that CFmuley has 50 shots without cleaning and I have heard of more, I'm not going to worry if I get another 20-30 down range.

CFMuley- do you clean the breech plug? If so, how often?
 
I've had a paramount a couple years. It is a great factory option for a muzzleloader.

I often run a dry patch between shots and clean it often. It still shoots well without cleaning it or even running a dry patch after 10 shots. Even though BH 209 isn't as dirty as other options it still leaves a whole lot more residue than my centerfire rifles do. I feel like I get better accuracy by keeping it cleaner. I don't clean the copper out until I put it away for the season. I have taken about 200 shots with my paramount, mostly with 140gr (by volume) of BH209. I did notice more blow back and wear on the breech plug after a couple hundred shots, so I picked up a replacement breech plug. I've rarely shot it more than 10 times without cleaning the beach plug.

I weigh the BH209 instead of estimating by volume. Estimating the BH209 will work just fine if you are only shooting 200 yards or less. Even though I'm confident I could hit a deer at 600 yards with my paramount, it isn't a shot most of us should consider taking for multiple reasons. 600 yards with a centerfire deer rifle isn't all that difficult of a shot to make for a guy that practices and knows his limits on wind, etc. Muzzleloaders have worse ballistics that a 40 gr bullet from a 223 and so much could go wrong with longer muzzleloader shots.

Even at 200 yards a stiff wind has push my paramount bullet 6". At longer ranges my bullet has been pushed by the wind more than 2 feet. Those shots to the right are due to a light wind if I were to guess.
 
BrianID said:
I've had a paramount a couple years. It is a great factory option for a muzzleloader.

I often run a dry patch between shots and clean it often. It still shoots well without cleaning it or even running a dry patch after 10 shots. Even though BH 209 isn't as dirty as other options it still leaves a whole lot more residue than my centerfire rifles do. I feel like I get better accuracy by keeping it cleaner. I don't clean the copper out until I put it away for the season. I have taken about 200 shots with my paramount, mostly with 140gr (by volume) of BH209. I did notice more blow back and wear on the breech plug after a couple hundred shots, so I picked up a replacement breech plug. I've rarely shot it more than 10 times without cleaning the beach plug.

I weigh the BH209 instead of estimating by volume. Estimating the BH209 will work just fine if you are only shooting 200 yards or less. Even though I'm confident I could hit a deer at 600 yards with my paramount, it isn't a shot most of us should consider taking for multiple reasons. 600 yards with a centerfire deer rifle isn't all that difficult of a shot to make for a guy that practices and knows his limits on wind, etc. Muzzleloaders have worse ballistics that a 40 gr bullet from a 223 and so much could go wrong with longer muzzleloader shots.

Even at 200 yards a stiff wind has push my paramount bullet 6". At longer ranges my bullet has been pushed by the wind more than 2 feet. Those shots to the right are due to a light wind if I were to guess.
Click to expand...
This probably a newb question but when you say you don’t clean the copper do you mean you don’t run a brush down the barrel but just run a dry patch? How many shots between cleaning the copper out?

I’ve been using 105 grains measured on a scale.

On this hunt my shot will probably be 200 yards and in. My guess is probably 150 yards.

You might be right on the wind pushing my shots to the right. The range always has a little wind blowing to the right. I’ve never had a shot go left.
 
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I always clean my muzzleloader after shooting. I do a fouling shot when I get to the hunt area. I switched my breech plug from CVA to arrowhead. It was expensive but definitely stopped blowback. I have a Accura V2 so not sure if this help or not but new plug made a major difference for me and was definitely worth it
 
BuckshotBenny said:
This probably a newb question but when you say you don’t clean the copper do you mean you don’t run a brush down the barrel but just run a dry patch? How many shots between cleaning the copper out?

I’ve been using 105 grains measured on a scale.

On this hunt my shot will probably be 200 yards and in. My guess is probably 150 yards.

You might be right on the wind pushing my shots to the right. The range always has a little wind blowing to the right. I’ve never had a shot go left.
Click to expand...
I don’t use any copper cleaning chemicals on it during the season. I was just using the Montana Xtremes BH 209 solution to clean or some some other presoaked patches to clean up the BH209 the month before and during the hunt. I may have done more than 50 shots without cleaning out the copper. At the end of the season I cleaned it up really well before putting it away.

I’ve seen some of my center fire rifles shoot slightly tighter groups after they get a little copper fouling in them. In one of my 223s I may not clean out the copper more often than every 500 shots.
 
BrianID said:
I've had a paramount a couple years. It is a great factory option for a muzzleloader.

I often run a dry patch between shots and clean it often. It still shoots well without cleaning it or even running a dry patch after 10 shots. Even though BH 209 isn't as dirty as other options it still leaves a whole lot more residue than my centerfire rifles do. I feel like I get better accuracy by keeping it cleaner. I don't clean the copper out until I put it away for the season. I have taken about 200 shots with my paramount, mostly with 140gr (by volume) of BH209. I did notice more blow back and wear on the breech plug after a couple hundred shots, so I picked up a replacement breech plug. I've rarely shot it more than 10 times without cleaning the beach plug.

I weigh the BH209 instead of estimating by volume. Estimating the BH209 will work just fine if you are only shooting 200 yards or less. Even though I'm confident I could hit a deer at 600 yards with my paramount, it isn't a shot most of us should consider taking for multiple reasons. 600 yards with a centerfire deer rifle isn't all that difficult of a shot to make for a guy that practices and knows his limits on wind, etc. Muzzleloaders have worse ballistics that a 40 gr bullet from a 223 and so much could go wrong with longer muzzleloader shots.

Even at 200 yards a stiff wind has push my paramount bullet 6". At longer ranges my bullet has been pushed by the wind more than 2 feet. Those shots to the right are due to a light wind if I were to guess.
Click to expand...
When you run a dry patch between shots are you removing the breech plug to push the patch through?

This is my last week to shoot before the hunt. I’m going to clean it. Right now I’m technically zero at 200. I’m still having accuracy issues. My first 2 or 3 shots are great and then it starts to wander left,right,down. Im thinking about adjusting the scope down 3 MOA which should be bullseye at 100( 3 inches high for a 200 yard zero) if I’m shooting good with those 3 shots I’ll run a dry patch through it and be done with it.

Shot @ 100- crosshair and shot
Shot @ 150-move up 1.5 MOA
Shot @ 200- move back to my zero.

What do you think?
 
Paranoia is setting in…

I shot yesterday at the range. The gun was fully clean so the first shot was off which I expected. Shot 5 more after that. 3@100 and 2 @ 200. I decided to run a dry patch through after every shot. I ran a dry patch after the last shot and put it away. The gun shot really well but I’m worried the first shot cold will be off. I’m thinking about going to range and take one shot at @100.

9A54EC76-6402-4472-9A16-BF5573673D29.jpeg


92140621-5C5A-4D93-87F2-8EF9224E8AE4.jpeg
 
Are you saying you’re going to hunt with a clean bore? I leave my rifles fouled with BH209 (and loaded) for the whole season. Consistency is the key. IME all muzzys shoot better fouled. Dry patch or don’t between shots but do it the same every time.
 
diablo said:
Are you saying you’re going to hunt with a clean bore? I leave my rifles fouled with BH209 (and loaded) for the whole season. Consistency is the key. IME all muzzys shoot better fouled. Dry patch or don’t between shots but do it the same every time.
Click to expand...
That’s what I’m trying to figure out. My previous experience with the gun I wasn’t running a dry patch through it and I wasn’t happy with my groups. CVA recommends a dry patch through between shots and also Brian on here does the same. So I did that for the first time yesterday and shot much better. I’m just paranoid my first shot in the field will be off. That’s why I’m thinking about going and taking a shot today to see where it’s at after putting it away after a dry patch.
 
Sounds like you’re on the right track then. Leave it fouled. Yeah, if you think you need to, go check the cold fouled bore first shot. Confidence is everything.
 
Well just got home. Fired one shot and put it in the case. I haven’t run a dry patch through it. I’m debating leaving it as is. Stick with the dry patch?

2CD92D45-7A0E-48C8-9778-E6657160D69B.jpeg
 
Yes - stick with the dry patch. Although I don’t notice much difference dry patching my rifles. But I don’t own any CVAs. Looks good!
 
I going to retrieve mine from the gun cabinet today, shoot a squib, run a dry patch, and see if it’s still “on”.
 
If you clean the breech plug I would def pop a cap before reloading. Could be cleaning solution residue on the breech plug that could affect ignition.

Personally, I clean before a hunt, then shoot a fouling shot, run a single dry patch down, then load for the hunt.
 
Hey guys. Thanks for all the advice on my first muzzie hunt. I had a great time. Lots of laughs and a ton of deer. I ended up passing this buck up on Thursday holding out for a classic 4x4 but I couldn’t find one. I ended up shooting him the next morning. 200 yards. He dropped. He’s a great buck and I couldn’t be happier. Thanks again fellas!!!

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Sounds like a fun hunt. Glad you had some success. Watch out….
You might get hooked on muzzleloader hunts!
 
I just wanted to add to how to get the most accuracy out of the original paramount (not the paramount pro). The original comes with an aluminum bedded chassis. Some of the paramonts
 
Some of the paramounts shoot really well and others not so well. I contacted them directly and they recommended 60 inch lbs of torque on the action screws and that made a big difference for improving the accuracy. Another thing I noticed was that the recoil lug was not making any contact at all to the stock on most of the guns that wouldn’t shoot well.
Also every single paramount that was bedded on the recoil lug and torqued to 60 inch lbs on the action screws were all tack drivers.

The paramount pro is a different animal with pillars in the stock - so you can’t tighten the screws much past 30 inch lbs.

Also some of the original paramount came with laminated stocks and you can’t torque much higher than 30 in lbs on those as well.

If your paramount isn’t grouping well - pull tue action out of the stock and check to see if the recoil lug is making contact.
Bedding can only help any setup.

I like the paramount - just adding some things that can help accuracy.
 
Ballistic said:
Some of the paramounts shoot really well and others not so well. I contacted them directly and they recommended 60 inch lbs of torque on the action screws and that made a big difference for improving the accuracy. Another thing I noticed was that the recoil lug was not making any contact at all to the stock on most of the guns that wouldn’t shoot well.
Also every single paramount that was bedded on the recoil lug and torqued to 60 inch lbs on the action screws were all tack drivers.

The paramount pro is a different animal with pillars in the stock - so you can’t tighten the screws much past 30 inch lbs.

Also some of the original paramount came with laminated stocks and you can’t torque much higher than 30 in lbs on those as well.

If your paramount isn’t grouping well - pull tue action out of the stock and check to see if the recoil lug is making contact.
Bedding can only help any setup.

I like the paramount - just adding some things that can help accuracy.
Click to expand...
My Pro was a tac driver out to 300 before i noticed the action screws were extremely loose. Torqued to 50 and it wouldn't group. Decided to bed it and it still won't group. Any thoughts? Go down to 30 inch lbs even though it's bedded?
 
jelloyeti said:
My Pro was a tac driver out to 300 before i noticed the action screws were extremely loose. Torqued to 50 and it wouldn't group. Decided to bed it and it still won't group. Any thoughts? Go down to 30 inch lbs even though it's bedded?
Click to expand...
Do you have aluminum pillars in the stock ?
Without the pillars you shouldn’t torque much over 35.
I would start at 30 and go up 10 in lbs at a time until you hit 60. If that doesn’t work - try setting the rear most screw at 20 and only increase torque on the front screw in 10 lb increments. Hopefully that does the trick for you.
I believe the non pro stocks are best because they have a set aluminum bedding block. That block allows higher torque settings on the action than you can reliably get with pillars. With that style of stock you can increase up to 65 in lbs. Paramounts can be picky to tune - but I’ve been lucky enough to get them to shoot well.
I hope this helps.
 
Ballistic said:
Do you have aluminum pillars in the stock ?
Without the pillars you shouldn’t torque much over 35.
I would start at 30 and go up 10 in lbs at a time until you hit 60. If that doesn’t work - try setting the rear most screw at 20 and only increase torque on the front screw in 10 lb increments. Hopefully that does the trick for you.
I believe the non pro stocks are best because they have a set aluminum bedding block. That block allows higher torque settings on the action than you can reliably get with pillars. With that style of stock you can increase up to 65 in lbs. Paramounts can be picky to tune - but I’ve been lucky enough to get them to shoot well.
I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Yes, the pro has aluminum pillars. I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes.
 
Ballistic said:
Do you have aluminum pillars in the stock ?
Without the pillars you shouldn’t torque much over 35.
I would start at 30 and go up 10 in lbs at a time until you hit 60. If that doesn’t work - try setting the rear most screw at 20 and only increase torque on the front screw in 10 lb increments. Hopefully that does the trick for you.
I believe the non pro stocks are best because they have a set aluminum bedding block. That block allows higher torque settings on the action than you can reliably get with pillars. With that style of stock you can increase up to 65 in lbs. Paramounts can be picky to tune - but I’ve been lucky enough to get them to shoot well.
I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Well, finally got out to shoot again. Took your advice, torqued to 30lbs, and it seems to be good at 300 again. Also, upgraded to the arrowhead ignition system cause I was getting horrible blowback. Pretty sure having action screws over torqued was the source of the accuracy problem. Thanks again.
 
jelloyeti said:
Well, finally got out to shoot again. Took your advice, torqued to 30lbs, and it seems to be good at 300 again. Also, upgraded to the arrowhead ignition system cause I was getting horrible blowback. Pretty sure having action screws over torqued was the source of the accuracy problem. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
I’m glad it’s shooting well for you.
 

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