Archery Kills and Quotas...

Wish they’d at least fix the website. Having to scroll right/left amd up/down just to see if a specific unit is open is painful! The 90’s called and they want their website back! Lol
 
I’ve read that PETA stuff. Gotta guess that’s just guys venting and conjecture. But it makes yours eyes perk up seeing those early numbers on Friday morning. Makes you go hmmmmm?
 
So....PETA people are actually buying a tag?.....I would assume you need to have tag info to make a report....
They would have to buy both the license and tag. Would be hard to prove without physically checking in the deer.

But again, I’m gonna guess it’s just stuff flying around the internet. Guys are frustrated the way this is playing out.

What we’re gonna see is hoards of people in 3 units come January. Unintended consequences.
 
They would have to buy both the license and tag. Would be hard to prove without physically checking in the deer.

But again, I’m gonna guess it’s just stuff flying around the internet. Guys are frustrated the way this is playing out.

What we’re gonna see is hoards of people in 3 units come January. Unintended consequences.
I doubt it is happening.....how many PETA people would go through the hunter safety course....but maybe.
 
I doubt it is happening.....how many PETA people would go through the hunter safety course....but maybe.
Yeah I concur. Think it’s just internet rumors and frustration and guys trying to rile up the hunting masses!
 
As much as I hate it...and them, I guess if they actually spend money on a license and tag, they are entitled to a real dead deer....or a fake dead deer. It sucks for other hunters not wanting the quota filled yet.....but it does keep deer alive for next year
 
"What we’re gonna see is hoards of people in 3 units come January. Unintended consequences."

That was absolutely GUARANTEED to happen if the system hadn't been changed and more and more of the OTC hunts were moved to a drawing each year as was planned. At least under the new system, there's a reasonable chance that there will be a fair number of units still open for the later season. Those units that currently look like they may close before the three-week season is over (which is really only two units at this point) would not have even been available to most hunters this year (since they would have been very limited entry draw hunts) under last year's system. So, most of us will have lost nothing through this new system. Instead, many hundreds of hunters were able to hunt those units this year, if for a shorter time, which was the entire purpose of the change.

The reason the new system was adopted was to allow a lot more hunters the opportunity to hunt far more open units. If you don't think that the expectation was that the 35 deer harvest limit was going to be reached in less than three weeks (when 125 draw hunters killed approximately that many in three weeks last year), you're just not that bright. G&F knew how many hunters would likely hunt there for an OTC hunt based on data from the previous years before it was put to a draw. In the years 2013-2017, Unit 1 averaged over 400 bowhunters, so let's assume there are going to be that many this year as well. If you don't think the expectation was that 400 hunters would kill 35 deer in fewer days than 125 hunters did last year on a three-week hunt, then I guess this will be "unexpected consequences" for you.
 
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"What we’re gonna see is hoards of people in 3 units come January. Unintended consequences."

That was absolutely GUARANTEED to happen if the system hadn't been changed and more and more of the OTC hunts were moved to a drawing each year as was planned. At least under the new system, there's a reasonable chance that there will be a fair number of units still open for the later season. Those units that currently look like they may close before the three-week season is over (which is really only two units at this point) would not have even been available to most hunters this year (since they would have been very limited entry draw hunts) under last year's system. So, most of us will have lost nothing through this new system. Instead, many hundreds of hunters were able to hunt those units this year, if for a shorter time, which was the entire purpose of the change.

The reason the new system was adopted was to allow a lot more hunters the opportunity to hunt far more open units. If you don't think that the expectation was that the 35 deer harvest limit was going to be reached in less than three weeks (when 125 draw hunters killed approximately that many in three weeks last year), you're just not that bright. G&F knew how many hunters would be in there for an OTC hunt based on data from the previous years before it was put to a draw. I don't know that number off the top of my head, but let's use (the probably conservative number of) 600 as a number for argument's sake. If you don't think the expectation was that 600 hunters would kill 35 deer in fewer days than 125 hunters did last year on a three-week hunt, then I guess this will be "unexpected consequences" for you.
See highlighted in bold.

Don’t appreciate the condescending tone. I’m not 8 years old. I understand how the math works.

Second, I disagree with your opinion.

Have a great day.
 
I'll admit, I'm a little surprised at the numbers so far. The good news is that we have been begging G&F for mandatory reporting for years and now we got. After 2-3 years of this reporting, G&F can begin to make some adjustments. Data Driven Decision Making. I only hope they continue to allow the bowhunting community a voice in these decisions.

When all the OTC hunts are over, I will be curious as to how many of the deer killed were taken with crossbows.
 
"I will be curious as to how many of the deer killed were taken with crossbows."
Me too. And for the first time, mandatory reporting is required and it is asking that question. The data has never been available before. No solution is going to be perfect for everyone. This one is just trying to extend the opportunity for OTC hunts for as long as possible. I think we should give it a chance to work and not condemn it within two days of implementation.
 
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Petition the commission to ban crossbows during an archery hunt if you are against it.

If crossbows make up 25% of the take then reduce archery harvest by that much and give crossbow hunters their own hunt. Not a good idea? Soon they are going to have hard numbers. I think it is only fair since crossbow kills are already being counted as an archery kill.
Getting a crossbow ban could possibly be done. The reason we can carry handguns is because 4 of us got together and petitioned the commission. There was an individual from Tucson that was spokesman for the group.

The commission listened.
 
Yeah I concur. Think it’s just internet rumors and frustration and guys trying to rile up the hunting masses!
Don't need a hunter safety course to buy a $45 deer tag and a $37 license. You're crazy if you don't think Peta and other animal rights people would pay $80ish dollars to save a deer. Those groups have more money than they know what to do with. Rather than a physical check in why not require atleast a picture of your tag attached to the antler? Would be easy to do with smartphones nowadays and would stop the antis from reporting fake kills.
 
They will have an electronic tagging app on your phone in the next year or so. They're trying to move away from a physical tag.
 
Don't need a hunter safety course to buy a $45 deer tag and a $37 license. You're crazy if you don't think Peta and other animal rights people would pay $80ish dollars to save a deer. Those groups have more money than they know what to do with. Rather than a physical check in why not require atleast a picture of your tag attached to the antler? Would be easy to do with smartphones nowadays and would stop the antis from reporting fake kills.
Think you replied to the wrong person. I never said they need Hunter Ed.
 
I'll admit, I'm a little surprised at the numbers so far. The good news is that we have been begging G&F for mandatory reporting for years and now we got. After 2-3 years of this reporting, G&F can begin to make some adjustments. Data Driven Decision Making. I only hope they continue to allow the bowhunting community a voice in these decisions.

When all the OTC hunts are over, I will be curious as to how many of the deer killed were taken with crossbows.
Mandatory reporting now for the general rifle and muzzy hunters as well?

Without that, it’s an incomplete story. The fact that every state doesn’t have mandatory online reporting is an embarrassment to all of us, IMO.
 
Unit 1 has reach it's quota. I wish they would make it so it has to be a forkie or bigger that is legal to shoot. There were so many spikes posted on social media this weekend. It's great people are out hunting but sucks to see how many spikes get killed.
 
Just think how far over the quota they will be in 27. It's not gonna reach the quota by Wednesday so it's gonna get another week of slaying from everyone that was gonna go there anyway and all those that can't hunt unit 1. Might be a good idea to switch to a 24 or 48 hours deadline to close the unit after a quota is reached vs 1 week.
 
Petition the commission to ban crossbows during an archery hunt if you are against it.

If crossbows make up 25% of the take then reduce archery harvest by that much and give crossbow hunters their own hunt. Not a good idea? Soon they are going to have hard numbers. I think it is only fair since crossbow kills are already being counted as an archery kill.
Getting a crossbow ban could possibly be done. The reason we can carry handguns is because 4 of us got together and petitioned the commission. There was an individual from Tucson that was spokesman for the group.

The commission listened.
I use a crossbow and am very happy the state allows it.
 
Unit 1 has reach it's quota. I wish they would make it so it has to be a forkie or bigger that is legal to shoot. There were so many spikes posted on social media this weekend. It's great people are out hunting but sucks to see how many spikes get killed.
Shooting spikes is a good thing. Let's all the mature deer get even bigger for those that are holding out for a trophy. A few years of the quotas being filled by spikes will have those units overrun with 180" bucks. Lol.
 
Shooting spikes is a good thing. Let's all the mature deer get even bigger for those that are holding out for a trophy. A few years of the quotas being filled by spikes will have those units overrun with 180" bucks. Lol.
I don't understand that logic. The people shooting spikes likely are never going to have a chance at a mature buck. Sure, there are some big bucks that will be along a road but the majority of mature bucks take some effort to hunt. The spikes and forkies being shot this last weekend in Unit 1 and 27 are most likely road hunters shooting deer standing 30-50 yards off the road.
 
I use a crossbow and am very happy the state allows it.
I think the biggest issue is if you look at the number of crossbow permits. It exploded . The actual qualifications and or people that can sign off on it has made it a cheat code to some.

I for one at happy they have it. My dad is 72 and has had to have multiple back surgeries and neck surgeries. It still allows him to hunt since he can’t draw his bow back after 40’years of archery hunting .

I think they need to re evaluate the system and re qualify everyone.

Just my 2 cents to keep the honest people honest .
 
I agree, they seem to hand them out like candy. I had been left out of archery hunting for years due to a bad shoulder. I really really loved hunting those early season bow hunts. Now reside in AZ again. I am 62 now and for the first time in over 15 years I get to go archery elk hunting, but with a crossbow.
 
Started Bowhunting in 1978. In all that time I have personally known only one person who was 100% archery their entire hunting life. Most guys either used hunt with guns and converted over to archery or they still occasionally apply & hunt with a gun (I fall into this category). Why all of a sudden people think they can continue to hunt with a crossbow during archery season? Either hunt with crossbow during gun hunt or go back to gun hunting. I had an early rifle 12A west tag and hunted it with bow & arrow. It can be done. I am in favor of a one-time temporary permit if you have already drawn the tag. This can only be used once. After that, you apply for hunts that fit your abilities without any special permits.

Carrying a crossbow around is much more difficult than carrying a long gun around. I think everybody knows why they do it but just don't like to talk about.

Getting old sucks but we all must face father time. This coming from someone about to enter my 6th decade.

My 2 cents.
 
Started Bowhunting in 1978. In all that time I have personally known only one person who was 100% archery their entire hunting life. Most guys either used hunt with guns and converted over to archery or they still occasionally apply & hunt with a gun (I fall into this category). Why all of a sudden people think they can continue to hunt with a crossbow during archery season? Either hunt with crossbow during gun hunt or go back to gun hunting. I had an early rifle 12A west tag and hunted it with bow & arrow. It can be done. I am in favor of a one-time temporary permit if you have already drawn the tag. This can only be used once. After that, you apply for hunts that fit your abilities without any special permits.

Carrying a crossbow around is much more difficult than carrying a long gun around. I think everybody knows why they do it but just don't like to talk about.

Getting old sucks but we all must face father time. This coming from someone about to enter my 6th decade.

My 2 cents.
Are you also against giving the disabled and handicap some extra advantages? Kids too?
 
Started Bowhunting in 1978. In all that time I have personally known only one person who was 100% archery their entire hunting life. Most guys either used hunt with guns and converted over to archery or they still occasionally apply & hunt with a gun (I fall into this category). Why all of a sudden people think they can continue to hunt with a crossbow during archery season? Either hunt with crossbow during gun hunt or go back to gun hunting. I had an early rifle 12A west tag and hunted it with bow & arrow. It can be done. I am in favor of a one-time temporary permit if you have already drawn the tag. This can only be used once. After that, you apply for hunts that fit your abilities without any special permits.

Carrying a crossbow around is much more difficult than carrying a long gun around. I think everybody knows why they do it but just don't like to talk about.

Getting old sucks but we all must face father time. This coming from someone about to enter my 6th decade.

My 2 cents.
I've said this before. If somebody is against crossbows during archery season petition the commission to eliminate them instead of bitching about it on the www. Taking action is how change occurs.
 
I've said this before. If somebody is against crossbows during archery season petition the commission to eliminate them instead of bitching about it on the www. Taking action is how change occurs.
I have written and talked to dept. to get changes in the past. I know how the process works. I would like to think part of the reason they are giving 10 archery antelope permits in unit 6a is because of me and lobbying to make it happen. I am not taking full credit because there were others involved. There are many of us that are doing the same thing for the crossbow abuse during archery seasons. As you probably know, G&F does not move real fast. Took about 7 years to get the archery 6a antelope tags.

I actually drew a 6a rifle antelope tag 2 years ago before they offered archery tags. Hunted the entire time with a bow and arrow except for last 2 hours on the very last day of hunt. I had some close calls with bow but never released an arrow. If I had to do it all over again, I would have kept the gun in the case.
 
Are you also against giving the disabled and handicap some extra advantages? Kids too?
No, I am not against youth and disabled hunts but they already have hunts for them. If you are truly disabled, apply for them and I wish you all the happiness and luck on your hunt.
 
You are the rare individual then if you are actually doing something instead of pounding a keyboard. I was involved in getting handguns legalized for protection during the archery season. It can be a long process but sometimes pays off.
I think there is a place for disabled hunters to use a crossbow during the archery season. Having said that I think there needs to be stricter, enforced guidelines to obtaining one. It is on the department to regulate the use and if what I am hearing is true they are doing a piss poor job of it.
 
No, I am not against youth and disabled hunts but they already have hunts for them. If you are truly disabled, apply for them and I wish you all the happiness and luck on your hunt.
Unless I am mistaken crossbows are the only weapon category that does not have it's own season. If they are banned the dept, needs to give them their own. Since they are already being counted during the archery hunts take time and quota numbers from the bow hunts and allot them to an xbow season for disabled hunters. It can be done. They do it for CHAMP hunters now.
 
"I am in favor of a one-time temporary permit if you have already drawn the tag. This can only be used once. After that, you apply for hunts that fit your abilities without any special permits."

This.
 
Thank goodness clowns from the internet don't make the rules. I'll gladly hunt with my brother with a crossbow permit who has MS and can't shoot a bow while you guys cry that he shouldn't be able to. If we're all in on giving them their own hunts can they get 25% of the tags from the regular archery hunts? As soon as they take away "your" tags you'll change your tune and not want to give them anything.
 
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When you got nothing else, resort to name calling. I get it.
Lol coming from a guy that is butthurt that a disabled person can still get in the field and do what he loves instead of just quitting hunting. I get it. Thankfully the law is on the disabled peoples side even with curmudgeons like you actively trying to change it. Sad you're not enough of a dedicated archer to stick with it on your antelope hunt, even more sad you would even consider applying for a rifle tag and taking it from someone else when you're perfectly capable of hunting with a bow. (Heavy Sarcasm on the end there in case it goes over your head)
 
Crossbows shouldn’t be eliminated at all, but the process refined. There are people that 100% need it.

Then there is the crowd that found a legal loophole and some guides even advising it. Unfortunately it’s the name of the game for upping the chances of a tag.

I’ll have to go back and find the data but the numbers absolutely exploded in recent years as tags have gotten harder to draw.
 
Crossbows shouldn’t be eliminated at all, but the process refined. There are people that 100% need it.

Then there is the crowd that found a legal loophole and some guides even advising it. Unfortunately it’s the name of the game for upping the chances of a tag.

I’ll have to go back and find the data but the numbers absolutely exploded in recent years as tags have gotten harder to draw.
I agree with that that there are people exploiting it but as you mentioned the answer isn't to take it from everyone. Not sure what they can do other than tighten up what qualifies for getting one but as long as it's up to any doctor to sign off on it a few people will use that to their advantage. Problem is who are we or who is azgfd to tell a doctor that someone's medical problem qualifies or not if its on the list? I would like to see the numbers but I have a feeling a very small percentage of archery tags are being used by guys with crossbows whether they truly qualify or not.
 
Yes, but that 140" deer that that got to live another year because somebody shot a spike will have a chance. Every spike that dies gives a bigger deer another year to get even bigger.
And the spikes have a harder time surviving early rifle season than early archery. Even on the Kaibab the vast majority of bucks killed in the early season are young deer.
 

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