Are there too many outfitters on Utah’s best units?

Are there too many outfitters on Utah’s best units.

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wstrntines

wstrntines

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Not sure if anyone else has noticed but big bulls are hitting the dirt at what seems like record numbers in Utah this year. The beaver is getting plowed with the bulls. And I’d hate to have a late tag this year. Boulder and manti have had a ton of bulls hit the dirt as well. Which brings me to the question is the state allowing too many top outfitters on good units? Or do you think it’s due to having phones and social media and it seems like there are more big bulls hitting the dirt?
 
Lots more big animals this year. It's due to the new trail camera law.

IMO, Mother nature is cyclic in a lot of ways. Looking to be a good year for both elk and deer.

Are there lots of outfitters, of course. However, they still can only harvest as many animals that they have hunters with tags for. Maybe more hunters are hiring guides?
 
I agree Gledeasy. No matter how many guides there are in the mountain it’s a tag number issue. However I will say I have seen numerous outfits using more than the 2 legal spotters. Too many loop holes to regulate.
Also mature bull numbers are up on many of the units this year. I believe this is to be because of the lack of harvested bulls in 2020. At least on the units I spend a lot of time on.
 
GLEDEASY said:
Lots more big animals this year. It's due to the new trail camera law.

IMO, Mother nature is cyclic in a lot of ways. Looking to be a good year for both elk and deer.

Are there lots of outfitters, of course. However, they still can only harvest as many animals that they have hunters with tags for. Maybe more hunters are hiring guides?
Click to expand...
Good points it’s definitely the perfect storm this year condition wise.
 
pushin_30 said:
I agree Gledeasy. No matter how many guides there are in the mountain it’s a tag number issue. However I will say I have seen numerous outfits using more than the 2 legal spotters. Too many loop holes to regulate.
Also mature bull numbers are up on many of the units this year. I believe this is to be because of the lack of harvested bulls in 2020. At least on the units I spend a lot of time on.
Click to expand...
I actually found these 2 gems last weekend on a pond right by the road. Now maybe the owner doesn’t have a tag so they are fine. But rather than call the cops I’m going to make the most of my LE Muzzy tag and have fun with my in-laws and wife.

89E91144-A7F7-479F-9181-A6A55C07B74D.jpeg
 
I thought there is only pisscutters in Utah " right bess" ?
Hell even the Book Cliffs is killing some good bucks and bulls.
I don't know if they're is too many but I do believe Utah should have a quoted on guiding/outfitter permits in order to guide for each unit and guide need to compete for them and each guide can only have two units that he can guide on. If a guide has the Governors or Sportsman tag holder that he is guiding then that would count as one of the guides unit permits.
 
No. Not too many guides. Too many associated folks.

This is trying to be addressed but as usual, there's always a work around. Like everything else, the corporate hunting class takes things to the ultimate ends in their pursuit of cash.

At some point guiding on public land will need to be addressed. And just like bait, and cams, the very folks that covered the desert in apples and ran thousands of cams, will once again scream about "how we are all in the same boat".


Anyone associated with a guide or outfitter needs to be subject to the sames laws and regs as any contractor.

Tax ID, DBA, City, County, State taxes. Buisness licenses. Liability insurance, continuing education, commercial insurance on vehicles, perhaps even bonding.

That might at least keep a few of the "spotters" home.
 
hossblur said:
No. Not too many guides. Too many associated folks.

This is trying to be addressed but as usual, there's always a work around. Like everything else, the corporate hunting class takes things to the ultimate ends in their pursuit of cash.

At some point guiding on public land will need to be addressed. And just like bait, and cams, the very folks that covered the desert in apples and ran thousands of cams, will once again scream about "how we are all in the same boat".


Anyone associated with a guide or outfitter needs to be subject to the sames laws and regs as any contractor.

Tax ID, DBA, City, County, State taxes. Buisness licenses. Liability insurance, continuing education, commercial insurance on vehicles, perhaps even bonding.

That might at least keep a few of the "spotters" home.
Click to expand...
Payroll for employees
Workers comp
Health insurance for employees
Ran like a regular business
 
GLEDEASY said:
Lots more big animals this year. It's due to the new trail camera law.

IMO, Mother nature is cyclic in a lot of ways. Looking to be a good year for both elk and deer.

Are there lots of outfitters, of course. However, they still can only harvest as many animals that they have hunters with tags for. Maybe more hunters are hiring guides?
Click to expand...
More bug animals are being killed because of the trail camera law that just went into effect 6 weeks ago? Please explain ...
 
hossblur said:
No. Not too many guides. Too many associated folks.

This is trying to be addressed but as usual, there's always a work around. Like everything else, the corporate hunting class takes things to the ultimate ends in their pursuit of cash.

At some point guiding on public land will need to be addressed. And just like bait, and cams, the very folks that covered the desert in apples and ran thousands of cams, will once again scream about "how we are all in the same boat".


Anyone associated with a guide or outfitter needs to be subject to the sames laws and regs as any contractor.

Tax ID, DBA, City, County, State taxes. Buisness licenses. Liability insurance, continuing education, commercial insurance on vehicles, perhaps even bonding.

That might at least keep a few of the "spotters" home.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "Associated" Folks? If they are not guides or spotters who else is there? And how do you regulate those folks? I agree they need to be held accountable and accounted for, i just don't know who "they" are.
 
ihunt4200 said:
What do you mean by "Associated" Folks? If they are not guides or spotters who else is there? And how do you regulate those folks? I agree they need to be held accountable and accounted for, i just don't know who "they" are.
Click to expand...


They. Are the army of want to be's.

Honestly, regulating them is like regulating illegals in construction. Hard to do.
 
I hate to say it, but this is just the inevitable consequence of trying to manage for variable big game age classes on public lands, especially in a populous state like Utah. Even if the outfitter industry was downsized, many licensed hunters will have support from family or friends. It would be nice if people could self regulate themselves a little, but I can accept the presence of having these other friends, family, and outfitters on the landscape if we can have areas where mature animals are common. I also think we need to recognize that there is a positive multiplier for the number of quality recreational opportunities created by each ”good” tag.
 

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