Attn: Arizona Hunters

[Trophy Master]

All arizona RESIDENT hunters there is a game and fish commision meeting August 13th and 14th in Flagstaff; to address the upcoming year and the new rulings. Every able resident hunter needs to appear at this meeting and voice there opinions. I feel the best way to do this is to compile a list of options and concerns to present to the game and fish. This way the same list of options and concerns is brought up at every meeting. If the same issues are arised over and over again maybe they will get the message. This latest ruling of allocating 805 extra tags shows that the people that make the most noise get the results. As resident hunters we need to stand up and make our voices heard. If we keep sitting on the sidelines we will be run over!!!!!

 

[PinonPaul]

How can they say that the additional 805 tags will have no long term effect on the game populations. If one looks at just unit #9 archery bull alone they added 30 more hunters. That is an increase from 90 tags to 120. A 33.3% increase! Give me a break. This has to affect tag numbers for next year. I guess it was a good year not to have that unit 9 tag after all. I feel for all the guys who just drew their dream hunt and now have another 30 non-residents ( along with their guides ) thrown in on top of them.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG.

 

[azhuntatty]

I agree that we need to voice our opinions on what needs to be done moving forward to improve opportunities for resident hunters.
A few thoughts on how we might increase draw odds: 1) increase non-resident tag fees to a competitive, not outrageous, amount (a unit 9 Az tag costs just $40 more than a Utah spike bull tag) 2)require applicants to pay for hunts upfront at the application stage (may need to rearrange the system but it would be worth it) 3) require individuals that draw bull elk or prime mule deer (units 12 or 13)or antelope to wait 2-5 years before having the opportunity to put in again (similar to the Utah system) 4)pass legislation making it illegal to sell antlers and other body parts of animals taken in Arizona (this may eliminate USO's commerce clause argument) 5) require all applicants born after 19XX to have a valid hunter safety certification (this would weed out some applicants and make it safer to hunt) 6) require applicants to sign an affidavit at the application stage stating that they intend to hunt and are not applying for collateral purposes etc. etc.(would make it easier to prosecute PETA types) 7) Permit applicants to put in for only one limited hunt species each year (for elk, deer or antelope--similar to Utah)

 

[azpaul]

A few comments regarding non-resident hunters. I agree with azhuntatty on most points, but strongly disagree on others. I am an AZ native that moved out of state recently. I put in for hunts in AZ whenever my job doesn't interfere, and don't enjoy hunting anywhere else. Additionally, I am a lifetime hunting and fishing license holder. I was happy with the 10% cap, and shouldn't be punished because a guide service wants to make more money. The current price structure is already comparable to other western states. Why should a non-resident pay up front, and a resident not do this? I remember paying up front for many years before the internet era, and it is only an inconvenience. I agree on all other points raised, and they should be brought up at the commission meeting. Maybe lifetime license holders should have additional annual bonus points?? I'm OK with whatever changes need to be made, as long as they keep AZ hunting like it's always been, and I still have an opportunity (not an advantage) to hunt there.

 

[azhuntatty]

My thought was that all hunters, including residents, would pay up front. To be clear, the points I made should apply across the board, residents and non-residents alike.

 

[hunterman67]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-04 AT 01:32PM (MST)[p]i cannot understand a couple of things, how can they tell me that the numbers they added will not have a significant impact on the animals this year- i applied for unit 10 bull hunt #3025 total tags 350, as my 1st choice, i did not get my 1st choice but i did get my 5th choice unit 10 cow hunt # 3055 total tags 700. now i just counted the "list" of all the hunters who now "get" a tag. they added 105 freaking tags to hunt # 3025 unit 10 bull rifle. only 350 were allocated at the start, now they just added 105 MORE tags to this hunt for a total of 455- am i not supposed to think this is going to impact unit 10 bull elk ?????

and last year the "commision" told us there were too few elk in this unit so they did away with 1 bull hunt altogether, and lowered the tags in every other hunt including archery. so if the elk numbers are so low one year they take tags away, how can they add more tags the next year- the animals did not multiply enough in one year to justify this, right ??.
MICHAEL WAITE, MARANA, AZ.

 

[dezertred]

Exactly, how can an extra 100 plus tags in 10 not have an effect. That area is going to be packed!

As for the meeting, I will be in the area, unfortunately I will be at the Navajo Army Depot at the request of my Uncle Sam.

-Red-

 

[30inchbucks]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-04 AT 01:54PM (MST)[p]First of all, your wrong on the cost of a tag. I'm a Non-resident and have 9 points for elk and 6 for deer. I have had to buy a hunting license every year in Arizona in order to get that bonus point. This is something that Non-residents to Utah currently give only 5 dollars for. I already have around 1,021.50 into the tag with hunting license fees in Arizona plus the 371 for elk or 113.50 for deer tag fees if I ever draw it. Plus it cost me money and time to get the Arizona Hunter Ed point. So I have quite a bit more invested than one might think if and when I finally draw a permit in Arizona. Raising the tag fees considerably will make it very difficult for the average hunter to afford to put in. That is exactly what the boys from USO want! By raising tag fees you're playing right into their game! They get more tags because the average hunter can't afford to put in for 9 to 10 years to get a tag. Please do not look at Utah for an example because our system really sucks. Do not limit and decrease your opportunities as residents by only being able to apply for one species. That has not helped here. Example, I chose mule deer here in Utah and I put in for a limited entry tag every year for 18 years and finally drew a tag last year! And the waiting period thing, I don't know about that. There should somehow be more of an opportunity in the draw for hunters with the most bonus points. 10 percent of the tags set aside for bonus point holders is not working. It should be more like 50 to 75%. When someone such as me sees guys over the years draw 3 to 4 tags and sometimes 2 in a row while I still wait for my first one it hardly seems fair. Maybe instead of a waiting period make a rule that in order to be put in for the draw hunters would have to have so many bonus points first like 2 to 5. It hardly seems fair when someone with zero points draws while the guy with 9 points sits home. This happens too often in my opinion.

 

[PinonPaul]

Hunterman, that's exactly what I was saying. You cannot tell me adding 30% more tags to a hunt this year will not affect tag numbers next year. With AZ success rates that's 50 more Bulls taken in unit 10 rifle. Well, at least we can get some enjoyment from the fact that Jim Zumbo, Jeff Foxworthy and their USO guides will be dealing with a larger crowd and not quite the usual quality AZ experience!

 

[30inchbucks]

Increased tag numbers will affect these units not only this year, but next year and the year after as well. Now next years tags will not be the same quality. They can't say that 805 extra tags are not going to hurt the game. At a 50% overall success rate that is 400+ animals gone that would have been there next year. In my opinion, I would rather have the tag this year who cares about the extra competition. Next year will be less quality especially in units like 10 for elk or on the strip for deer. I guarantee you that 30 extra tags on the desert areas of the strip, where there are not very many deer to begin with, will effect the quality. If you don't believe me ask the wildlife manager over the area that was against the increase in those areas. I know this will make some mad but I think they should have done a redraw to comply. What they did in my opinion did not put the animals and the herds too high on the priority list. Hunters were first, and the wildlife was second. If you believe it should be this way then I feel you are being really selfish. Wildlife and the herds should have been first!!!! As far as I know, in Arizona tag numbers are set according to recommendations made from each individual unit wildlife manager. Those recommendations are there for a reason.

 

[782warbird]

Guys the extra # of tags will infact hurt AZ deer and elk herds
BUT here's the real deal AZ GAME AND FISH DEPT HAD THEIR HANDS TIED I don't agree with issuing that many more tags but the reason why was, The decision was to either redraw all deer and elk or at least the units that were listed .
But if they redrew and 1 man or woman would of drawn a AZ strip tag or a early bull tag from the previous draw that would of been invalid that person could sue the game and fish for neglegence and they would of won.
Thru the privacy act Arizona would of had to give the 1st draw results to the general public even though it would of been invalid and the second draw results would of been valid
2nd problem it would of taken 3 weeks to reprocess all the lisences and permits back into the system and redraw causing some people not enough time to go on their hunts.
So in all it sucks and I did not draw a tag but we all have to thank USO outfitters

 

[schmalts]

I hope you guys have enough courage to stop looking out only for yourselves and fight anything that would help outfitters like USO. Example, dont ask for some law stating that all NR need an outfitter. Dont punish the guys who dont use outfitters and USO, help us. Who would you rather be hunting with? a few good old boys from out of state or some dork sitting around a big wall tent with a t-bone and mix drink every night after a hard day of chasing plane spotted game?

 

[schmalts]

Just one more comment,Why the hell does AZ take so long to do a draw anyway? What gives? UT is done in like march or something and they have winter kill to look into sometimes before coming up with tag numbers. If AZ wasnt so slow they would have had the draw done way before the court case and gave you guys a chance to come up with a plan.

 

[AZtrophyhunter]

Schmalts, that's a good point. I was wondering the same thing......why does AZ take so long? I swear we are the last to find out if you get drawn or not. I'm just glad the area I drew wsan't affected to much.

 

[huntinfool64]

Unlike other western states, AZ waits for the game surveys (done by ground and air) to be completed before it sets the number of tags for the fall hunts. These surveys are typically done in early spring. That is why the application start dates are later than most other states and hence why the results are later than most other states. I think this is a prudent thing to do, especially in a desert state where game populations can vary from year to year depending on food and water supplies. It is inconvenient to most anxious hunters, though, I will agree.

 

[kilbuc]

Nv, Ca and Wy also don't set final tags numbers and seasons until after their spring surveys and county public meetings, but draw results are done by mid-June.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"