AZ & All Western states

Bura Nut · Jul 17, 2004

We can belly ache and complain about whats happening or we can send an email to AZGFD supporting the meeting on Monday 19th they are having with the Judge Bloomfield. We want them to convince the judge to allow this years draw to go through due to "undue financial/logistical" hardships. Secondly AZGFD needs to be public about what we do for future draws to make the system most equitable for everyone. If not, all states are going to see equal draw chances and equal tag fees or their states will be sued as "Discriminatory" in their processes. Everyone needs to voice their opinion to their respective states and wildlife organizations like ADA, MDF, RMEF etc... or the whole hunting landscape will change for the worse for everyone. Take this however you want, but with no caps on any premium state, more people apply, more deer/elk are harvested the first/second years of the "New" lottery system and we as hunters will see a dramatic impact on some herds. Our game departments will struggle to implement "New Management Models" to forecast herds etc... and many if not all Western states first will see an additional decline in Muley numbers. Sure hope this does not happen............ Allen Taylor......

SMOKESTICK · Jul 17, 2004

Bura Nut,

You are absolutely correct in your statement. Sportsmen need to become engauged in the process. Sportsmen can no longer leave their state wildlife management agency to "go it alone and expect a win". However, the groups you mentioned Sportsmen to contact, only the ADA may have the will power to get into this fight. National groups such as the MDF and RMEF refuse to get into the political arena. They will not step to the plate for Sportsmen as they are only concerned about the habitat needs of deer and elk. Sportsmen need to unite on this issue or they will loose. They can not count of the National NPO's to fight this battle, but they must fight this battle.

AZ402 · Jul 17, 2004

Allen, there is no way I can make the trek down to the Valley on Monday. If there is anything I can do from up here in N. AZ let me know..................Stan Durkalec

AZbowhntr · Jul 17, 2004

Right now every state in the west has their own system of giving out tags to non-residents. It would be nice if all the states could get together and come up with one system that works well for all of them (and us). I know that every state has different situations like amount and quality of deer and elk. But overall come up with something that gives all of the states some ground to stand on when these lawsuits are filed. Just my thought.

beaner · Jul 17, 2004

Mr. Taylor,
Good points and totally concur with you. It is killing me from across the pond watching what has been going on and knowing the AZ G&F could have prevented this had they been proactive to fix this rather than reactive. We need a change of buearacracy in a big way. They aren't looking out for us.....who pay their salaries.

Can anyone let me know a G&F email address so I can send some hate mail before this meeting on Monday. I hope all of you that can attend do attend. Good luck, and thanks for the info.

S/F

wetmule · Jul 18, 2004

To Smokestick, Buranut and others as Allen most likely knows, the ADA is in this fight and has been for some time.The attorney that Mr. Odenkirk speaks of that is a constitutional law expert that the G&F has signed on to help in this matter, I believe, is an attorney that was funded by a private ADA supporter and member. This private member fronted this attorney alot of money to help the G & F combat this suit and help come up with a solution to this problem and a way around the mess we are currently embroiled in. This attorney advised the G & F that they were going to loose this case which is exactly what happened and he also advised the Dept. to inform the judge in good faith, before a ruling came down, that the Dept. was taking measures to correct the problem. I could be wrong but I believe the G & F attorneys failed to do this for what reason I don't know. I also don't know if it would have had any effect on the judges ruling on fri. but I do know it couldn't have hurt to let the judge know that the Dept. was working on a solution to this problem. It certainly couldn't have looked anyways but positive in the judges eyes to do this, and just may have swayed the judges opinion. From what I understand this was not done and with the untimely ruling on Fri. we are where we are right now.
This Dept. and the Commissioners I believe are on our side. I also believe they need some guidance. Unfortunately most sportsmen and women are content to sit on the sidelines as the silent majority. It is not UNTIL their passion and lifestyles are THREATENED that they get involved.

Bura Nut · Jul 18, 2004

Beaner thanks for being overseas fighting for us. Kevin (wetmule) puts tons of time and always has for Arizona. I have been kinda careful about mentioning names but from what I know, Kevin is 100% correct. One ADA member funded an attorney that came up with a solution for AZGFD and for some reason AZGFD did not move forward with it. I am very concerned with the Assistant Attorney General, he is the same attorney who did not accept USO's offer of a true 10% allotment for non-resident tags back in 2000. I would not be surprised if he is in council with Janet Napolitano about this situation. I bet they are running numbers on the increased revenue associated with more successful non-residents and the associated tag fee increases........may sound far fetched but not out of question.......I do believe AZGFD and the commission really want a solution that favors residents. I just think we need to put more pressure on the ASST. ATTRNY general so he moves in the direction legally that we and AZGFD wants.........Thanks, Allen Taylor......

Bugler · Jul 18, 2004

Allen you stated my thoughts on the Lawyer thing. That Assnt Atty Gen I am concerned about. I do not trust him or anyone in the Gov's office right now. They have their own agenda and I think you may be right. I am going to ask him what his personal thoughts are if given a chance to speak tomorrow. I don't know this guy and never heard of him till now. I am just as upset over G&F not acting on this earlier. The only thing we can hope for is the best and then give testimony to the supreme court when this is appealed there. It's our last chance. We need to be united from all states in this because it really affects all states, once case law is set. The hunter4s in every other state are going to face the same situation of equality for every hunter regardless of where they come from. So in essence everyone in the US is affected by this in the same way. We had better start some kind of alliance And I mean now, because this alliance has got to be heard in the Supreme court. It may be too late for us at the present but it may not be too late to save hunting with one last appeal to the Supreme court on how this is a greed issue and not about hunting and how the people of the states do not want the wildlife in their states to be governed by the fed govt or be regulated and fall in step with the commerce laws period.
Let's begin the Alliance now today! Who's on board with me. Guys and gals if we do not act we might as well start hammering the nails in our coffins lid because it will soon be over as we know it and it will be a greedy mans game. I am willing to be heard in Washington when the time comes, I owe it to my Son and Daughters to do what I can to preserve this way of life and the bonds it creates. And to all whon don't know I am an outfitter in AZ and although some income comes from non residents I don't believe in this being a commerce related issue. Let';s create an alliance !
Bugler

SMOKESTICK · Jul 18, 2004

I thought ADA would be in there fighting but wasn't certain. I am glad to learn that they are in this fight. Perhaps they need to file their own law suits in the future. This is in part what SFW has done in Wyoming as we gear up for a legal challenge of the USFWS rejection of Wyoming's wolf management plan. We have hired our own attorney and have filed suit.

This will affect all western states for sure. Don't just think this will happen in AZ.

As I have stated earlier, Sportsmen need to become organized. SFW has develped a blue print that you should consider if you are looking for some assistance. Bottom line; get organized and involved in the political process or face losing our heritage.

Best of luck ADA and AZ Sportsmen.

beaner · Jul 18, 2004

What else can I do besides shooting out emails to the G&F? One thing is for sure, we need to hit the politicians where it hurts when election time rolls around again.

Keep up the fight guys. It is a noble and worth while cause.

Semper Fi