AZ FEE INCREASE TABLE

LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-04 AT 08:48PM (MST)[p]These are ceiling fees. They are not the actual prices of the tags. Those prices have not been proposed yet. We have ceilings now but they are too low so that nonres tags can't be raised w/o raising the ceiling. This has to be approved by the legislature and then the azgfd would have to recommend that to the commission in order to raise tag fees. This would not have happened if not for USO and their lawsuit. Raising fees was a very popular suggestion when azgfd asked for public input. People thought that this would deterr nonres application numbers.I would hate to see the prices go so high that we actually price the little guy out. We are a long way from what hunting is all about. Keep in mind that Az has some lowest tag fees in the west, but our game herds are what everybody wants when it comes to quality. Anyway, just my two cents.
 
(CDN) I UNDERSTAND THAT IT HAS'NT BEEN APPROVED YET. I'M JUST PISSED CAUSE IF THEY GO ANYWHERE NEAR THOSE CIELINGS I'LL BE FORCED TO HUNT COYOTES THE REST OF MY LIFE HERE. GOT A ELK HUNT COMING UP ON FRIDAY FIRST ONE IN 13 YEARS.HOPFULLY NOT THE LAST ONE I CAN AFFORD. MAY HAVE TO GET A LOAN TO GO HUNTING NEXT YEAR. SORRY FOR VENTING JUST SUCKS LIVED HERE FOR 27 YEARS AND MAY HAVE TO SAVE MONEY TO HUNT B.S. IF YA NO WHAT I MEAN. I BLAME AZGFD FOR THIS (SORRY JOB IN DEFENDING IN LAWSUIT (USO))

THANKS FOR LISTENING :JD
 
George Taulman isn't the only enemy of the average hunting public. These board members and a lot of hunters too are also an ememy of the average hunter. If fees are raised to the point that a working class hunter cannot afford to apply it will decrease the number of non resident applications, but not the number of non resident hunters. It will only change the financial status of the hunter. I believe it will also play into Georges hand, because he represents a lot of wealthy hunters. All hunters need to stand up and fight these outragous fee increases, because when only the rich can hunt there will be a lot of poor poachers.
Wes
 
I gotta tell ya fella's, this whole USO fiasco was pretty convenient for G&F which is why I don't think they fought it hard as they could have. If you think about it, a random ceiling jump would have caused some serious backlash, but by saying "In order for us to limit the number of NR's we need to raise the fee's and we can't do that unless the ceiling goes up" they can point the finger elsewhere. They've been wanting to do this for awhile and now they have the oprotunity...I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but when it comes to money, anythings possible..........
 
I tried to warn you Arizona hunters that you would end up fighting with your own game dept. over the USO deal, and how Arizona fish & game would join the band wagon to get more money. Several of you stated that that was not a issue and the game dept would be working with the local hunters. For you guys I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell you.
Now you may finally understand that the game dept. will sell the local hunters down the sewer when it comes to making more profit for the dept. and it's personnel. It would mean a higher salary for the ones at the top who makes the rules.
As for the comment about the higher fees for non resident hunters will increase the draw odds for the locals, do not hold your breath, there is alot of very rich NR and corporations that will snap up the tags and the lower income local hunter will be taking it the shorts as always.
You local hunters better get your act together and fight as a united group by putting pressure on your elected officials, forget about working with the game dept., or the high quality game tags will be going to the man with the most money and you get to injoy your favorite tag soup.

RELH
 
I'm sorry but I'm a AZ resident and i'm in favor of the tags being raised
I.m not rich but it will help the nonresident from applying in this state
and you know 1200.00 for a out of state Az strip tag is well worth it most people hire a guide anyway so whats the differance.
 
This is blankin crazy, up to $1200 for a deer TAG, $3200 for an elk TAG. As a working class hunter who has dreamed of going to Arizona one day this is insane. I can forget applying if it goes this way, it is a sad day when hunting has come down to a rich mans sport only.
 
782 Warbird;

I think you are going to find yourself in the minorty with your fellow state hunters. You can bet your bottom dollar that when the NR tags go up, the resident tags will follow the upward trend as well. You will not see a decrease in NR hunters, what you will see is more NR hunters with big pocket books that will pay a higher price to hunt private land and be able to pay the higher fees. In fact his draw odds will increase due to the lower income hunter being knocked out of the drawing because of the higher fees. If you do not belive this, then you have not been around hunting enought to see this taking place in numerous states.
This means more average joe's will be completing with you for public land hunts and your chances for drawing will be less then 40-50% and possibly very much lower.
For your information, I can afford those higher fees, but I refuse to pay fees that I feel are alright extortion by a greedy game dept. or guide services. I also refuse to submit fees to any state that requires you to purchase a license first, then submit fees for a tag drawing and you may end up with a license that you can not use, because you did not draw your deer or elk tag. It seems that you look at the picture a little different, and do not mind taking it up the "you know what" without any grease being applied, but, that is your right.
I hope you enjoy your higher fees, but do not tell your fellow hunters in Arizona, they might deflate your tires for revenge.

RELH
 
782warb....it isn't going to change the AMOUNT of non-res. TAGS, just the amount of non-res. appling. Nothing gained at all for the res. who wants a tag. and no doubt the tag allocation will increase for non-res. thus really taking away from your chances of drawing odds.

What does the $500.00 fee mean along the 'Guide' column??
 
782 WARB: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. I HOPE YOU WERE LIQUERED UP WHEN POSTING THAT. YOUR KINDA ATTITUDE IS PART OF THE REASON, USO SUED AND ONE SO EASILY.WHEN WILL PEOPLE LIKE YOU,(BY THE WAY WHO ARE ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY) WAKE UP.
THESE NONRESIDENT HUNTERS U AND EVERYONE ELSE KEEPS SLAMMING AND TREATING LIKE ##### ARE FAMILY AND FRIENDS AND ABOVE ALL AMERICANS. SHALL I REPEAT THE LAST LINE FOR YA.....

IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT NONRESIDENTS HUNTING IN OUR STATE,MAYBE U SHOULD ENLIST IN THE MARINES (IF THEY WOULD TAKE CRAP LIKE U) GO TO IRAQ AND TELL ALL OUR BOYS OVER THERE THAT U CAN'T GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE BACK HOME BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN A DIFFERANT STATE AND ARE COMPLAING THAT PRICES ARE TO HIGH TO HUNT OUT OF STATE.

DUDE'S WE ARE ALL AMERICANS. THOSE OF U WHO ARE NOT,WHO ARE LIVING OFF HARD WORKING AMERICANS,PLEASE EXIT STAGE RIGHT------->

SORRY TO VENT ON YA 782 WARB BUT I'M JUST PISSED OFF AT ALL THE BITCHIN BETWEEN RESI AN NONRESI HUNTERS ACCROSS THIS LAND.KISS,MAKE UP AND LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER TO STOP THIS STUFF FROM HAPPENING IN EVERYONE'S STATE NOT JUST AZ.
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. GOTTA GO SHOOT A ELK.......
 
There is a slight bit of logic to what warbird is saying, calm down Baggy. AZ residents have sacraficed hunting opportunities to maintain quality herds unlike some other states. Why should AZ residents sit back and watch NR's "cherry pick" the quality game from its herds. IMO a $1200 NR tag for strip deer is a fair price. If you don't like it then don't apply.
BTW, thank you George Taulman you A$$
 
Well here's my 2 cents i am a N.R. of AZ and have been applying for Elk and deer for five years.I have been purchasing the license to receive the bonus points during this time "wasting the license money" knowing i would not use the license if not drawn.That said i am not rich byany stretch of the imagination i am a blue collar worker with a family with the hope of hunting in Az one day and a chance at a true trophy.I understand small fee increases but the problem i have with this is Az fg trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.If i can't swing $1200 + license fee for a deer tag all my $ spent on bonus points were wasted.Like i said i don't mind an increase lets be fair about it .

P.S. i do believe Arizona residents should reeive the majority of the tags issued and us N.R. will have to wait are turn.
 
I agree with warbird, maybe not to the extent that the ceilings have been set at but a substantial increase. If you are lucky enough to get drawn now, you get to hunt for literally peanuts. As it stands now, Game & Fish can't afford to have their WM's out in the field patrolling and doing their jobs, they are in the office or at home listening to the radio a good portion of their day. Have you seen the cost of gas lately, price of trucks, maintenance etc? If the money raised from the higher permit prices goes to line the pockets of the directors and administrators, I say bullsheet. If it goes to help better manage our game herds, pay good bioligists a decent wage and keep them employed and happy with what they are doing and what they are making $$$ I'm all for it. If they can't make a decent living and leave to go work for Ted Turner or some other private landowner who has game herds that need managing, that sucks too.
AZ is not like all other western states, we have quality herds with good trophy potential because as sportsmen of this state have made it clear to G & F that we want quality hunting experiences here not quantity, and we have worked long and hard (years & years) to get that point across to G&F. AZ also does'nt have vast herds of game all over the place. Our opportunities are limited here and on a per deer or per elk basis, it just makes sense that it should cost alot more to manage a deer or elk here in AZ as opposed to Wyoming, CO, Mont. etc.
Raise the fees, yes I'm all for it if it will keep our quality of herds at the very top in all the country.
 
I may be wrong but it seems like there were a lot of people in favor of price increases when this thing all started and the G&F sent out all the surveys. We are not at our ceiling now and we wouldn't be at the ceiling if and when they increase it. I don't like the prices shooting so high in all the states but AZ is way lower in prices than most of the western states. I don't remember everybody complaining when all these other states prices went as high as they are now. Just my opinion.
 
yeah, lets not get too worked up yet. those are just caps. actual prces probably wont be that high just yet. though i bet we are going to see a big jump on the strip hunts.
 
I also somewhat agree with wb, i will pay extra if need be to hunt in my state, whatever it takes to make sure the nr's pay more will- in the end be better for us residents. more money to/for our g&f department will do more for our animals- bottom line- more wardens afield- less poaching, road destruction, land abuse, etc. arizona does not have the quantity of animals that most other western states do, and for the longest time our fees have been the lowest of all the western states- bring our nr fees inline with the other western states and either the nr's will pay and hunt less animals, or they will go to another state with more animals and same costs- i hope the 2nd option is thier choice. and for bag boy over there- you cant come on here and talk about kissing, and warm fuzzy sharing- then bash another hunter who speaks his mind- thats just wrong. and since you bring up iraq- it would seem you maybe should not let everyone see how you smash a fellow hunter then say everyone should get along- you are the type of "person" who speaks with 2 tounges- that is NOT what our soldiers over there need to see or hear. and if you ever expect to be taken seriously you should remove the caps lock button- no one likes that crap.
M WAITE, AZ.
 
Damn leave for a couple days and get hit over the head !!!

Anyway We in Arizona have made it clear to the Arizona Game and Fish dept that we want to hunt TROPHY animals,other states don't feel that way, WELL now USO has changed things and we have to give up our hard earned heard of TOP QUALITY Deer and Elk to Non Residents, Well I have been on the Arizona Deer Association Board of Governors for 6 years streight and now hold the Vice President position I have taken alot of time and energy to help maintain the small deer heards we have in Arizona.We have biult many waterholes and such in those 6 years. Put Millions of dollars on the ground to help Deer and Elk for what to see the out of state hunters reap all the rewards.
NOW I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T WANT OUT OF STATE HUNTERS.
But 50 percent is out of hand.Arizona game and fish dept had to do something.
Guys and Gals just thing about your job If your boss said work the next 8 weekends for FREE and after that I am throwing a huge party for a appreciation of employees. And after all that you were not even invited, how would you feel when you went to work the next Monday !!!!
Thats how some of us feel here in Arizona
We don't dislike out of state hunters we just don't feel that they deserve 50 percent of our hard managed Trophy Animals.
I'm sorry if I pissed anybody off that was and is not my intent.
 
782warbird you did come across as not wanting any NR hunters hunting in your state. I can understand your fustration, but coming across as "me or them" will only place most NR hunters aganst you, and they far outnumber the locals in your state.
Lets be honest, it does appear that the USO lawsuit came about because your game dept. decided to have a pigheaded approach to the request of 10% of the tags being allocated to NR hunters. Your game dept. decided to play hardball, maybe with the consensus of the local hunters, and ended up taking it in the shorts because USO did not like being hit in the pocketbook and had smart attorneys that knew they could beat Arizona F&G at their own game. Now instead of 10%, you are looking at 50% going to NR hunters and USO and other outfitters in your state are grinning while going to the bank with their loot.
I also believe that your own F&G dept. is also grinning over their new found wealth in being able to raise the fees for NR, and they will do the same for the locals and use the excuse that they have too because of the commerce fair trade rules set down by the 9th. Circuit Court. Remember that everything has to be equal concerning commerce for residents and non-residents. Think about it.
I am willing to bet that big money is going to win this one and hunting for you residents will be worse off then ever before, unless things are changed at the Congress level to allow states to control the management of game herds within their state.
This is not a simple case of NR hunter Vs. resident hunter, it goes far beyound that and involves money more then anything else. In simple terms, it is you and other local state hunters Vs. NR hunters, your own game dept., all outfitters in the state, and even local ranchers who all will stand to profit from the suit and the increase in fees. None of them will give a rat's a$$ about how you and others worked your butt off to build up the deer herds and how much labor and money you put in to the effort. Their pocket book is more important to them.
Good luck on your efforts, because you are going to need a bunch of good luck, or you can become a NR hunter in another state to get a chance at a tag.

RELH
 
RELH-I think you are somewhat right on this and the commissioners, landowners and the outfitters are rubbing their hands on this deal. The way to kill em all is a ballot initiative in the next election outlawing all profit from big game animals. We as a state are notorious for stepping on necks with this tool and it would force the Attorney General to defend the new law in court. It may outlaw all guiding and outfitting and I guess I am about to say that is OK due to all this hassle from USO. NR hunters who can figure out how to hunt without guides and planes are welcome here IMO. I bet this would have broad appeal among hunters and non-hunters. Taulman may have deep pockets but they ain't as deep as the state's.
 
glen that is one way to look at a solution to the problem, but can you get your local hunters to band together and support a grass roots amendment to change the G&F laws in your state. You will encounter hunters who will not want to give up the right to sell animal parts for profit, and the shed hunters will also appose this change.
I said it before in another thread, do your hunters want quality hunting and better percentages, or do they want to make money off of selling horns, hides, Ect!
As of now, I can't see anyway that they can have both, it's one or another.
we can debate this until the next century, but the bottom line is that alot of hunters in Arizona are going to have to make a decision to fight this in a proper way, and give up some things, or kiss their hunting goodby as they are succeeding in doing now.

Good Luck;
RELH
 
I agree that personal greed will impact what most will support both good and bad. I do know that the non-hunting public would sign up to support the ballot measure if they found out some were making money off selling animal parts and not just hunting for sport. They wouldn't know a shed hunter from a dwarf. It will come down to numbers and how the measure is written. Maybe it will get resolved with Reids bill but I doubt it.
 
Glen;

If you have any contacts with sportsman groups, I believe warbird said he was connected with a group, now would be the time to get this thing rolling. The anger and fustration over the USO suit, and the fact alot of Arizona hunters did not drawn tags, is fresh in everyone's mind and it would not take that much to get them fired up to put pressure on their elected officials. Just do not trust your game dept. to fully handled it, they have too much conflict of interest to fully look out for the average hunter in your state.

RELH
 
The thing that bothers me most is I have sent checks to organizations in Az. wanting some $$ and support on anti-hunting type fights they where up against, and like a concerned hunter for fellow hunters I have sent checks to them to help with the fight and for the 'cause'.......... now guys like 782... have me thinking about sending a check to the anti-hunting group in the future. Never will I, but it crosses a guys mind when someone like that goes off about fair prices...... for sure on muleys that migrate from my state to his state so he can have late date hunts and shoot my deer!!hehe
 
i have to appoligize for my last post. your right i was slamming another hunter,even thought that was'nt my intentions when posting that,sorry. i still don't know why that iraq thing got thown in their,just angry i guess.

all i was tring to say was,that we all are res,and nonres,and that the increases will affect us all. so we should quit complaining about nonres and res and try and do somthing about it.
i for one would like to hunt in my state,and if someone from utah or co. or any other state wants to hunt there fine. just make sure that the res. have a good chance of hunting there own state.And that goes for everybody elses state.
again sorry for the slam and negativety.
sincerley, James Devens
 
Gleninaz, I like some of the points you've brought up about outfitters etc and have been planning on posting my opinion but have been reluctant to do it because I didn't want to cause a ruckas. But you broke the ice so I'm gonna make my post. I will title it "USO and solution." I imagine a couple of people will get mad. Oh well, can't make everyone happy. fatrooster.
 

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