Bad news if you liked the reissue process

hoopscoach

Active Member
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I just read in the Turkey brochure that the reissue process is changing in 2021. I believe it's safe to assume this change will also be in effect next fall.... Bad news for those of us who like the current process. Looks like they are going back to the old way of posting a list of reissue tags available on Tuesday, which will go on sale Wednesday at 11:00 every week. No more tags randomly hitting the list all week every 5 minutes. It will be like the early August leftover day every Wednesday where thousands will be vying for a few good tags... As a retired guy who could watch the list like a hawk, I'm not a fan of this change so I think I have to reconsider my application strategy in CO this year...
Hoopscoach
 
Not surprised, the process was compromised and I will leave it at that. It will change how some of my buddies get their tags. I interested to see how much play this gets before the draw.

Rich
 
There's a reason this info comes out in December. The bellyachin won't truly get underway till July.
 
I think that's the guy that got a 44 4th tag on leftover, bragged on here to everybody how great he was at life, and then shot a little one then bragged about it. I woulda hid it in my closet if it were me!
Well I’m pretty sure you are thinking of the other guy because 2 44 4th rifles one earlier in the year and the other a few days before season. I personally know Cameron and yes he did get a 44 4th rifle and he shot a solid low 180s buck on his last day to hunt. I am pretty sure he doesn’t post on here yet alone on social media. He’s the most humble guy and dedicated hunter I know.
 
What comment Sambo? I was replying to a comment that was taken down. Still don't know who Cameron is.
 
I'm sure there will still be those who claim "bots" are getting the tags and that 11:00 on Wednesday isn't fair either.
My guess is more bots will get tags now. Alot easier to write code for one day a week then every five minutes for four days a week. The system will not please everyone. Those who have gotten tags throughout all the different processes will, and those that haven't will continue to gripe.
 
Uuuuggghhh! This sucks. We had a good thing going with the random tags being put up. Yes, I know the bots probably got most of the really good ones but me and my buddies grabbed some very nice tags and a few good cow tags right before or during the seasons.
 
I think this assumption is premature. I suspect Turkey reissue tags are a far cry (volume of tags and demand wise) from big game tags.

Could be they won’t change the big game tag reissue process back. I wrote them and asked if they have decided yet.
 
I think this assumption is premature. I suspect Turkey reissue tags are a far cry (volume of tags and demand wise) from big game tags.

Could be they won’t change the big game tag reissue process back. I wrote them and asked if they have decided yet.


Anythings possible. But if I was a bettin man........
 
Thanks txhunter58 for finding that document. I'm shocked that they would do it differently for turkey but maybe it's because they have so many fewer turkey tags to reissue. I'm definitely hopeful that the system might stay status quo!
Hoopscoach
 
This was the first email I got from CPW:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Colorado Parks and Wildlife. I understand you are inquiring about the 2021 license reissue process.

Yes, I believe this reissue process will be the same for big game reissued licenses. Here is the document from the License Reissue Working Group that submitted their work to the Parks and Wildlife Commission at the September meeting. Information regarding the reissue process will be posted online here and in the 2021 big game brochure.

Respectfully,

--
Bradley Gabrielski
Communication Center Wildlife Coordinator
 
I took what he was saying is that the process would be the same as this fall, and the "document" recommendations seems to back that up.

However, the first sentence was ambiguous (same as this fall or same as turkeys??) and I sent him a follow up email asking him for clarification
 
This was his second email:

Hello,

The reissue process in 2021 will align with what is printed in the 2021 turkey brochure. A new reissue preview list will be posted online every Tuesday, and those hunt codes will be moved to the Leftover List and available for purchase every Wednesday. Resident licenses that took 5 or more preference points in the current year's draw will be manually reissued (status quo). More information will be posted online as soon as the 2021 big game brochure is released.

Respectfully,

--
Bradley Gabrielski
Communication Center Wildlife Coordinator

Now I feel foolish :eek:
 
Stupid and just a damn mess. Anyone who has felt with standing in line and crashing of computers knows this will decrease the odds for everyone and actually hands the advantage to anyone working for CPW...

people are idiots for wanting this to change...
 
Like you used to be elks96, I'm usually first in line come early August. Only had an issue one time. Couple years ago picked up 4 tags, got 2 last year, and when things were on a timed release like they will be this fall, I picked a few reissue tags up. This willy nilly m-f 9-4 BS took most people out of the game. Reverting back to releasing them at a set time evens the playing field. My money says I'll have 6 tags again this fall, and anybody else could as well.

I did pick one up this fall Thursday before season. Had to drive 2hrs to town from camp, for a tag that probably came up 50 times or more since August. But because I don't have the option of staring at a computer 7hrs a day, 4 days a week I had to go thru that nonsense.
 
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Cmbbulldogs comment back in June lead me to believe this was comin.

Screenshot_20201222-202111_Chrome.jpg
 
Point creep will be up this year, so more tags will require phone calls so less quality will hit the list.

The weekly dump is ok if you want turd tags or units full of private, a guy will probly get those either way, just requires less effort with the weekly dump.
 
I'm sure there will still be those who claim "bots" are getting the tags and that 11:00 on Wednesday isn't fair either.


Sure, it'll be the guys with the ability to stare at a computer screen 7hrs a day, 4 days a week that are not getting as many tags as they have the past couple years. The playing field was leveled and their undefeated record is gone.
 
I could care less either way. I just hope for god sakes they get their computer issues straightened out before hand. This crashing crap at 11:01 on Wed mornings is not going to cut it. :mad:
 
I really don’t understand how Mr. Gabrielski thought I would think they were changing back to the former system when he pointed me to a document that said:

“ The agency recommendation is to keep a random release (status quo) policy for returned licenses that are not manually reissued (those hunt codes that took five or more resident preference points to draw are manually reissued). This means that returned licenses could be released for sale anytime between Tuesday and Friday weekly, between 9:00 AM - 4:00 PM off of the Leftover License List. ”

Oh well
 
The agency recommended keeping it random and the board voted against that recommendation. If you watch the video of the meeting, it's obvious some of the board members had their own agenda and didn't care what the agency recommended.
 
I am going to call it now, they will only do this for one year, and then go back to the random way, or something completely different.

You think the belly aching was bad before, everyone that liked the system the way it was should start writing emails now, that combined with the extra headache of the system crashing will get them to change it back.

You guys that liked the old way only had it that way for 1 or 2 years when nobody knew about re-issue tags because it was a new thing. I bet you wont have it as easy now that 10's of thousand more people know and are invested in the process.
 
I've never written a complaint email, nor will I this time, I've just been rolling with the punches. The way it's been the last couple years has kept many out of the game. This new old way levels the playing field as most people can make time 15 minutes a week. Hopefully it stays this way a bit. No matter what they do some will always bellyache. The guys with a computer program they've written to purchase a pre selected tag the second it pops up, and the guys with the ability to monitor a monitor 7hrs a day 4 days a week will be bellyachin this year.
 
I cant monitor a computer 7 hours a day 4 days a week and i much prefer the random uploads, and was able to pick up some good tags, including 1 that should have taken me 20+ years to draw. They need to find a way to get the computer programmers out, maybe even make it illegal, I agree that shouldn't be allowed.

But i think this is going to be a mess just like it was the first year. There was a reason they moved away from the once a week upload, and a reason why they wanted to keep the current system. It was better.

I fail to see how this levels the playing field for the average guy, just because someone has better access to a computer then you doesn't mean you dont have the same opportunity. Other then the bots, everyone has exactly the same opportunity some just put in more work to capitalize on it.

Now you just shifted the advantage to the guys that can sit in front of a licensing agent every Wednesday morning until tags go on sale. More average Joe's could take time throughout the day checking the list on there phone every once in awhile then can set in front of the building every week. I know because i have done both.
 
I agree with JakeH. I foresee a lot of bellyaching from both sides once September rolls around when people still haven’t picked up a tag. There’s going to be way more people trying this year than the first year they did it this way. One thing I’ve learned with this process is every system seems fair if you are getting the tags you want and unfair if you can’t get them. I foresee cpw making changes every year until they get a system that seems to satisfy everyone, which at this point seems doubtful. My guess by 2022 it will be random again with a preview list.
 
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I still think the current system is best. I saw alot of tags go through this year and call bs on all the good ones going to bots. It was way more competitive than last year though. I played the older reissue game and didn't have much success. There will now be 10 times as many people all crashing the system every week. Average Joe has a better chance with the current system. Watch this list from you phone on lunch break and you will have a better chance than the once a week dump. Now it will go to people in line at the terminals, they are faster than people bogged down trying to get one online. The new system will have 10,000 people every week shutting down the system for 4 good tags, 10 mediocre tags, and 20 tags that you could of picked up as 2nd choice.
 
I cant monitor a computer 7 hours a day 4 days a week and i much prefer the random uploads, and was able to pick up some good tags, including 1 that should have taken me 20+ years to draw. They need to find a way to get the computer programmers out, maybe even make it illegal, I agree that shouldn't be allowed.

But i think this is going to be a mess just like it was the first year. There was a reason they moved away from the once a week upload, and a reason why they wanted to keep the current system. It was better.

I fail to see how this levels the playing field for the average guy, just because someone has better access to a computer then you doesn't mean you dont have the same opportunity. Other then the bots, everyone has exactly the same opportunity some just put in more work to capitalize on it.

Now you just shifted the advantage to the guys that can sit in front of a licensing agent every Wednesday morning until tags go on sale. More average Joe's could take time throughout the day checking the list on there phone every once in awhile then can set in front of the building every week. I know because i have done both.


You may have hit it, and it's an angle I didn't even think of, advantage residents! Colorado is the most generous state in the west when it comes to giving tags to non residents. Bout time they threw us a bone!
 
You may have hit it, and it's an angle I didn't even think of, advantage residents! Colorado is the most generous state in the west when it comes to giving tags to non residents. Bout time they threw us a bone!
Correction, Certain Residents, I bet there are a lot more Colorado residents that can watch the list periodically thorough out the day then can take every Wednesday to sit at the License vendor. You like it because it benefits you.

And like I said, it will last 1 year they will have something else next year, might not be the same as the trickle in system but it will be closer to that I bet.
 
My original thought was all of us on our devices. Being at the terminal hadn't crossed my mind. Like I said, bout time they thru us residents a bone, we've gotten the chitty end of the stick for a long while.

And you wouldn't have to go every Wednesday, only the Wednesdays that had tags you were interested in.
 
Is it really an established fact that people at terminals get a jump on people on computers? Even if true, it would only apply to the guy at the front of the line at Walmart or other terminal store, unless you happen to live close to a CPW office that has multiple terminals
 
My original thought was all of us on our devices. Being at the terminal hadn't crossed my mind. Like I said, bout time they thru us residents a bone, we've gotten the chitty end of the stick for a long while.

And you wouldn't have to go every Wednesday, only the Wednesdays that had tags you were interested in.
So you are telling me you picked up tags that first year off the computer? And not crappy tags, actually stuff people want. Or did you get them waiting in line on the first day.

Is it really an established fact that people at terminals get a jump on people on computers? Even if true, it would only apply to the guy at the front of the line at Walmart or other terminal store, unless you happen to live close to a CPW office that has multiple terminals
Yep its faster, I've seen up to 4 guys get tags before the system crashed when the online guy can't get through because its so slow from being bogged down by all the traffic.
 
At terminals is a huge advantage. Once in the cart it is yours if at license vendor or game and fish terminal. Online you have to complete payment before it is yours. Be nice if they change it so online once it is in your cart it is yours and give you 5 minutes to complete checkout. So frustrating to think you have a tag only to so sorry, tag unavailable once you put payment in.
 
Is it really an established fact that people at terminals get a jump on people on computers? Even if true, it would only apply to the guy at the front of the line at Walmart or other terminal store, unless you happen to live close to a CPW office that has multiple terminals


I wouldn't stand outside at Walmart at 2am if it wasn't an advantage. Ask Elks96.
 
So you are telling me you picked up tags that first year off the computer? And not crappy tags, actually stuff people want. Or did you get them waiting in line on the first day.


I've gotten them both standing in line and off the computer. What's a "crappy" tag? They're all gone in 5 minutes or less the past couple years.

And when was the first year? I've been playin this game for 33yrs.
 
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But wait! There's more! Not pleased with the process? That's ok because it's gonna change again soon.

Colorado is an ever changing licensing dynamic.
DOW will probably end up ”keeping” them and creating a public pool of elk and deer for the woof’s to eat. Woof food has to be part of the population objective formula, right?
 
Cow/doe tags and tags that are leftover after the draw is what I mean when I say "crappy" tags. Deer tags that take 1-4 points or more are what I am looking for on the leftover list. Those do not last long no matter where they are in the state.
 
Yes, I've got them online and in line when the leftover app was functional. The only tag I've picked up while staring at the list was last fall, in my pickup above our base camp, 2 days before season. I then had to drive 2hrs to town to pick up the tag, a tag that probably hit the list 50 times since August. But since it was a new hunt code from the previous year I couldn't add it to the app. And since my job isn't to sit at a desk all day I didn't get 50 chances at it. I was lucky to get the one. The way they'll run it this fall will change that.
 
Even if you are first in line your at the mercy of the person running the computer.....unless you "know" someone....am I getting close? Again it's probably fine if you want cow/doe tags, leftovers or units mostly private.....

The weekly reissue created opportunity, it's up to you to decide how much to invest in the process. If you wanted it bad enough you'd find a way to get in the game.
 
There’s gonna be ins and outs to getting your hands on tags anywhere you decide to play. I mean for hell sakes, you can hunt deer in Utah as a dedicated hunter and forego many of the draw issues. If you wanna hunt big bucks, you’ve gotta be willing to get savvy!
 
Early in the process, there are going to be people that think this new system is a big improvement and fairer than the old way. When they log on at 11:00 am, they will expect to get "their" tag and will complain when they don't. I have no idea how many people will log on at the stroke of 11:00 but I gotta think tens of thousands and when you have a primo tag on the list, what are the odds that you will be the one getting it? I'd say real close to zero.

With the old system, people complained that they can't sit at a computer all day and check for random re-issues. With the new system, the gripes will be, city people can get faster internet or the people that can use a retail licensing agent have a huge advantage over a guy using a laptop. Or with thousands of people all trying for a few tags at the exact same moment, my chances are close to zero.

My hope is this is a one year failed experiment and we go back to the old way of random re-issues or a system close to it with minor modifications. And once we adopt a system that works best for me, that they keep it that way until I die. LOL
 
It’ll be an interesting challenge as always! I better start working on my finger speed now.
I have confidence it’ll play out for me. If not, I guess I’ll be watching from the sidelines.
I warned dad though, he better not be holding his breath hoping I score for him.
 
It’ll be an interesting challenge as always! I better start working on my finger speed now.
I have confidence it’ll play out for me. If not, I guess I’ll be watching from the sidelines.
I warned dad though, he better not be holding his breath hoping I score for him.
OK, I'll bite, why are you confident it will play out for you?
 
Not a fan of the new process. I don't know how many years now I have attempted to get a tag on the initial reissue day and have never come close, now it will be that same process each week. Would always end up scoring some tag later though, maybe not a premium tag but at least a tag to get me out there. I has heard it was going this way, but hoping it was just rumor.
 
Early in the process, there are going to be people that think this new system is a big improvement and fairer than the old way. When they log on at 11:00 am, they will expect to get "their" tag and will complain when they don't. I have no idea how many people will log on at the stroke of 11:00 but I gotta think tens of thousands and when you have a primo tag on the list, what are the odds that you will be the one getting it? I'd say real close to zero.

With the old system, people complained that they can't sit at a computer all day and check for random re-issues. With the new system, the gripes will be, city people can get faster internet or the people that can use a retail licensing agent have a huge advantage over a guy using a laptop. Or with thousands of people all trying for a few tags at the exact same moment, my chances are close to zero.

My hope is this is a one year failed experiment and we go back to the old way of random re-issues or a system close to it with minor modifications. And once we adopt a system that works best for me, that they keep it that way until I die. LOL
You know that their system will crash every Wed at 11.00.30sec.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
It probably won't crash, but it'll be super slow. Two years ago on the first day I was able to get an early rifle tag. It took 32 minutes to go through 6 webpages of the process to get the tag. Over 5 minutes per page!!!!!
I don't think their server is meant for a huge surge of activity in such a short period of time. They probably have their site sitting on just one server, as I do. It can probably handle pretty smoothly a couple of webpage requests per second. The surge on Wednesday's at 11:00 (3 minutes prior and 5 minutes after) is going to be massive. Hundreds of requests per second.
I'm surprised that their tech folks weren't concerned about an overload of requests bogging things down so much that it appears crashed. Maybe they've got it handled.?

The other downside is that any tags they receive on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday prior to any opening day of hunts, won't be available until the next Wednesday when the hunt is nearly over. It'll only be a few, but there will likely be some.
 
That's not really different there have been a ton of tags they didn't release until the season was almost over. Heck there were tags posted a few times and the season was already over. They have never upgraded their servers to handle the traffic they get. They claim they do then the day comes and crash
 
You know that their system will crash every Wed at 11.00.30sec.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
I guess time will tell. If CPW feels the need to "fix" something, they better have a system in place that can handle the "fix". Not doing so would be totally irresponsible especially when their system can handle things just fine when doing random re-issuing of tags.
 
That's not really different there have been a ton of tags they didn't release until the season was almost over. Heck there were tags posted a few times and the season was already over. They have never upgraded their servers to handle the traffic they get. They claim they do then the day comes and crash
Exactly. I saw a 76 Muzzy Bull elk tag show up with 2 days left in the season. Makes no sense when the tags have to be turned in at least 30 days before the season starts.
 
Exactly. I saw a 76 Muzzy Bull elk tag show up with 2 days left in the season. Makes no sense when the tags have to be turned in at least 30 days before the season starts.
There is the extreme medical circumstances exception which allows a tag to be turned in beyond the 30 day period.
 
So if I read this right It says they will post tags between 11 am & 1 pm on Wednesdays. So there's going to be a two hour window that a tag could show up on Wednesdays that you seen on the list on Tuesday? So you have to camp out on the site for two hours if a tag you want isn't posted right at 11 am? ▶ Hunt codes that were on the Reissue Preview List will be moved to the Leftover List and become available for purchase each WED. starting at 11 A.M. ▶ All hunt codes will be released 11 a.m.–1 p.m. on Wed. of every week, starting the week after leftover licenses go on sale. No new hunt codes will be added to the list after 1 p.m. each Wed. ▶ The Reissue Preview List will be cleared after sales begin on Wed. through the Leftover List and will repopulate the following Tues. ▶
 
So if I read this right It says they will post tags between 11 am & 1 pm on Wednesdays. So there's going to be a two hour window that a tag could show up on Wednesdays that you seen on the list on Tuesday? So you have to camp out on the site for two hours if a tag you want isn't posted right at 11 am? ▶ Hunt codes that were on the Reissue Preview List will be moved to the Leftover List and become available for purchase each WED. starting at 11 A.M. ▶ All hunt codes will be released 11 a.m.–1 p.m. on Wed. of every week, starting the week after leftover licenses go on sale. No new hunt codes will be added to the list after 1 p.m. each Wed. ▶ The Reissue Preview List will be cleared after sales begin on Wed. through the Leftover List and will repopulate the following Tues. ▶


That verbiage had me scratchin my head too.
 
Yeah with that wording I'm guessing it's going to be random for a two hour window????
I got clarifiction on this the other day. All of the tags on the Tuesday list will show up at 11:00 on Wed. The 2 hour window is there in the event they experience glitches.
 
I got clarifiction on this the other day. All of the tags on the Tuesday list will show up at 11:00 on Wed. The 2 hour window is there in the event they experience glitches.
So they build a system that they know is going to cause crashes and then allow themselves an extra two hours to fix the crashes? Seems like you should just try to do it right to begin with
 
I got clarifiction on this the other day. All of the tags on the Tuesday list will show up at 11:00 on Wed. The 2 hour window is there in the event they experience glitches.
See that don’t make sense to me either. It sounds like there’s going to be two different lists?? If so they have all night to put the tags on the other list before 11 am? They said they were going to clear out the reissue list before sales start at 11o’clock Wednesday morning.... I bet they’re using that two hour window to spread out some of the more sought after tags so they don’t have everybody after the same tag the first hour and crash the system?? Thoughts...
 
See that don’t make sense to me either. It sounds like there’s going to be two different lists?? If so they have all night to put the tags on the other list before 11 am? They said they were going to clear out the reissue list before sales start at 11o’clock Wednesday morning.... I bet they’re using that two hour window to spread out some of the more sought after tags so they don’t have everybody after the same tag the first hour and crash the system?? Thoughts...
One list - the Tuesday 11:00 am list - no more, no less. All tags on the list will be made available at 11:00 Wednesday and will not be spread out over a 2 hour window.

Below is verbatim from CPW.

The 11 am to 1 pm window is to allow for any complications that might happen during the transition from the reissue list to the leftover list. If no issues occur, all hunt codes should be released for purchase within a minute or so. However, we are adding that window to prepare for the worst-case scenario and to prepare customers for the fact that if an issue occurs, licenses might not be posted at 11 am. The only licenses that will be reissued are the licenses that are visible/processed on the reissue list posted on Tuesday.
 
One list - the Tuesday 11:00 am list - no more, no less. All tags on the list will be made available at 11:00 Wednesday and will not be spread out over a 2 hour window.

Below is verbatim from CPW.

The 11 am to 1 pm window is to allow for any complications that might happen during the transition from the reissue list to the leftover list. If no issues occur, all hunt codes should be released for purchase within a minute or so. However, we are adding that window to prepare for the worst-case scenario and to prepare customers for the fact that if an issue occurs, licenses might not be posted at 11 am. The only licenses that will be reissued are the licenses that are visible/processed on the reissue list posted on Tuesday.
Well it’s gonna be interesting to see how it all works out. You know how things go that are new.. I just hope I draw a tag and don’t have to use it... LOL
 
You dont even need the list on Wednesday. You will know on Tuesday what's on there. If a tag you want is there just log in Wednesday and purchase it Wednesday. Have it all entered and punch purchase at 11. That's what will cause the crash because thousands of people already have this idea.
 
One list - the Tuesday 11:00 am list - no more, no less. All tags on the list will be made available at 11:00 Wednesday and will not be spread out over a 2 hour window.

Below is verbatim from CPW.

The 11 am to 1 pm window is to allow for any complications that might happen during the transition from the reissue list to the leftover list. If no issues occur, all hunt codes should be released for purchase within a minute or so. However, we are adding that window to prepare for the worst-case scenario and to prepare customers for the fact that if an issue occurs, licenses might not be posted at 11 am. The only licenses that will be reissued are the licenses that are visible/processed on the reissue list posted on Tuesday.
In other words.....welcome to the **** show....again:LOL:
 

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