Bear Spray
- Thread starter SureShot
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NECALI
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I bought some a few years back because I was hunting the Cody area most years. I'm not saying it doesn't work because thankfully I've never had a run in with a bear. But I never took it out with me. Reason was, the wind blows like crazy up there in November and I could just see me spraying it and having the wind blow it away, or right back in my face. I decided my rifle was going to be my protection.
nfh
Long Time Member
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I like my .44 mag better. I have had to many cans go off in my saddle bag or get caught on a limb and have issues. Since the wind always swirls I really don't want bear spray in my eyes. Or if for some crazy reason while sleeping in the tent I would end up waking up and shoot the thing backwards with my luck.
also if the can was to get caught up just right and spray I don't want that stuff in my horses nose.
Not trying to talk ya out of bear spray but that is a few reasons why I don't use it
also if the can was to get caught up just right and spray I don't want that stuff in my horses nose.
Not trying to talk ya out of bear spray but that is a few reasons why I don't use it
mightyhunter
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-15 AT 07:47AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-15 AT 07:45?AM (MST)
I don't think the choice that one is better than the other is supported by any studies. The actual situation is the most crucial thing in your decision making. I have carried spray and firearms in bear country. During hunting season, I will always use my rifle first with the scoped turned down to 4 power. When hiking in the Spring and Fall, I carry a large caliber revolver with bear loads (I think the bullets are made in Riverton, Wyoming). It is sighted in for very close range (like 20 ft). While camping out, spray is available. Always hang meat and your food a good distance from camp. I always laugh when I see some nimrod in the backcountry, during hunting season, carrying a rifle, a revolver and bear spray.
I think spray is very effective for bears that are just inquisitive or that get too close to you or your camp. That being said, pepper spray is worthless in windy conditions and it does degrade over time when stored. Make sure you always have a fresh canister if that is what you are going to rely on. Having one that has been rolling around in a drawer for years, waiting for the next hunt in grizzly country, might not work.
The best defense is being aware at all times. Watch your back trail. If you hear something odd, stop and listen to the direction. If you smell something funky like a carcass, your awareness needs to go up a couple of notches. When either situation arises, my firearm is up and at the ready. When hiking, it sits in a Ringler Combination holster on my chest. Make sure the leather strap holding it in the holster can be easily popped on and off. If you are in heavy cover, pay attention. If a bear charges or you get too close to one, you absolutely can't run. I have faced down a couple of close encounters by facing the bear head on and trying to look large. That isn't very hard for a one eyed fat man. I have been told, that if a bear has his ears up, starts cocking his head back and forth or looks like he is yawning, LOOK OUT. When they stand up on their back legs, that is usually not an aggressive posture. I had a sow do this while standing behind a yearling cub she was with. The cub was way more aggressive than the sow. They were 25 yards away. After 30 minutes, they backed off and ran. I enjoyed watching them pop brush and run away going right through an outfitter and two dudes on horseback on an adjacent ridge.
I think the real BS that comes from the pepper spray vs. gun argument involves an actual attack. If a bear attacks you, chances are you just won't have the firearm ready or the spray out. The folks I know who were mauled, killed the bear after they were mauled the first time. Both attacks involved sows. One used a pistol and the other a rifle. Both never really saw the first attack coming. One of the fellows was an experienced backcountry hunter and the other was new to the area.
The BYU professor (Smith) who authored a couple of studies on the issue of firearm vs. spray has recently said that only a fool, when confronted by a charging bear, would use spray when he has a rifle in his hands. If a bear attacks me and gives me an opening, he is going to be shot. I have had bears within 10 ft. of me and never had to shoot one. I did kill a very large black bear with my .41 magnum in Idaho at close range during a Spring season. I still carry this firearm while hiking.
When hiking and hunting, I always have my Eberlestock "Just One" pack on. I don't need it while hiking, but I figure if a bear gets a hold of me it might protect my vitals if I roll onto my stomach during an attack. The metal stays in the internal frame pack would be hard to just bite through. I also always have trekking poles with me for stability when walking. I am right handed and never loop the right pole over my hand. It allows me to access my handgun quickly and I believe that I might swing the pole down on a charging bear's nose if their is no time to do anything else. Obviously, that would not be a perfect solution.
The best advice is be careful and smart and never let your guard down in grizzly country. If you feel your life is in jeopardy, do what you have to do. If you are out with Chris Servheen of the USFWS, just push him out in front of you and follow his lead unless he runs. Just kidding.
just sayin...mh
I don't think the choice that one is better than the other is supported by any studies. The actual situation is the most crucial thing in your decision making. I have carried spray and firearms in bear country. During hunting season, I will always use my rifle first with the scoped turned down to 4 power. When hiking in the Spring and Fall, I carry a large caliber revolver with bear loads (I think the bullets are made in Riverton, Wyoming). It is sighted in for very close range (like 20 ft). While camping out, spray is available. Always hang meat and your food a good distance from camp. I always laugh when I see some nimrod in the backcountry, during hunting season, carrying a rifle, a revolver and bear spray.
I think spray is very effective for bears that are just inquisitive or that get too close to you or your camp. That being said, pepper spray is worthless in windy conditions and it does degrade over time when stored. Make sure you always have a fresh canister if that is what you are going to rely on. Having one that has been rolling around in a drawer for years, waiting for the next hunt in grizzly country, might not work.
The best defense is being aware at all times. Watch your back trail. If you hear something odd, stop and listen to the direction. If you smell something funky like a carcass, your awareness needs to go up a couple of notches. When either situation arises, my firearm is up and at the ready. When hiking, it sits in a Ringler Combination holster on my chest. Make sure the leather strap holding it in the holster can be easily popped on and off. If you are in heavy cover, pay attention. If a bear charges or you get too close to one, you absolutely can't run. I have faced down a couple of close encounters by facing the bear head on and trying to look large. That isn't very hard for a one eyed fat man. I have been told, that if a bear has his ears up, starts cocking his head back and forth or looks like he is yawning, LOOK OUT. When they stand up on their back legs, that is usually not an aggressive posture. I had a sow do this while standing behind a yearling cub she was with. The cub was way more aggressive than the sow. They were 25 yards away. After 30 minutes, they backed off and ran. I enjoyed watching them pop brush and run away going right through an outfitter and two dudes on horseback on an adjacent ridge.
I think the real BS that comes from the pepper spray vs. gun argument involves an actual attack. If a bear attacks you, chances are you just won't have the firearm ready or the spray out. The folks I know who were mauled, killed the bear after they were mauled the first time. Both attacks involved sows. One used a pistol and the other a rifle. Both never really saw the first attack coming. One of the fellows was an experienced backcountry hunter and the other was new to the area.
The BYU professor (Smith) who authored a couple of studies on the issue of firearm vs. spray has recently said that only a fool, when confronted by a charging bear, would use spray when he has a rifle in his hands. If a bear attacks me and gives me an opening, he is going to be shot. I have had bears within 10 ft. of me and never had to shoot one. I did kill a very large black bear with my .41 magnum in Idaho at close range during a Spring season. I still carry this firearm while hiking.
When hiking and hunting, I always have my Eberlestock "Just One" pack on. I don't need it while hiking, but I figure if a bear gets a hold of me it might protect my vitals if I roll onto my stomach during an attack. The metal stays in the internal frame pack would be hard to just bite through. I also always have trekking poles with me for stability when walking. I am right handed and never loop the right pole over my hand. It allows me to access my handgun quickly and I believe that I might swing the pole down on a charging bear's nose if their is no time to do anything else. Obviously, that would not be a perfect solution.
The best advice is be careful and smart and never let your guard down in grizzly country. If you feel your life is in jeopardy, do what you have to do. If you are out with Chris Servheen of the USFWS, just push him out in front of you and follow his lead unless he runs. Just kidding.
just sayin...mh
copple2
Active Member
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Here's why I chose UDAP:
UDAP has the most potent EPA-approved formula available. Their bear sprays are rated at 2.0%. Bear sprays must be between 1.0% and 2.0% Capsaicin and related Capsaicinoids, making UDAP Bear Spray the hottest formula available. They also deliver the highest amount of active ingredients in the shortest amount of time. Like using a double-barrel shotgun compared to a single barrel. Discharges about twice as fast as competitors.
That being said, I also carry a firearm, make sure not to walk blindly into tall brush, hang my food, etc.
Bear spray is one tool that's part of a larger equation for being safe in bear country.
Now, if you are really worried about getting attacked from behind and having your pack protect you, check out this little accessory:
http://www.pepperpower.com/back_attack_pack.htm
UDAP has the most potent EPA-approved formula available. Their bear sprays are rated at 2.0%. Bear sprays must be between 1.0% and 2.0% Capsaicin and related Capsaicinoids, making UDAP Bear Spray the hottest formula available. They also deliver the highest amount of active ingredients in the shortest amount of time. Like using a double-barrel shotgun compared to a single barrel. Discharges about twice as fast as competitors.
That being said, I also carry a firearm, make sure not to walk blindly into tall brush, hang my food, etc.
Bear spray is one tool that's part of a larger equation for being safe in bear country.
Now, if you are really worried about getting attacked from behind and having your pack protect you, check out this little accessory:
http://www.pepperpower.com/back_attack_pack.htm
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-15 AT 09:37AM (MST)[p]
I took this image on June 30, 2015. I left when the sow started towards me. Which bear would you spray first?
just sayin..mh
I took this image on June 30, 2015. I left when the sow started towards me. Which bear would you spray first?
just sayin..mh
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
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It sure looks like 4 cubs to me. I would think that 500 lbs for a sow in the late Spring would be absolutely max. She seemed healthy. The cubs were bawling. She made a move straight towards me and I took off.
mh
mh
mightyhunter
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Topgun,
You find them where you find them. Here is another griz about a 1/2 mile from my house. I see as many in the sagebrush as I do up high. The plain truth is there are just too many of them in NW Wyoming. The sow and cubs were not far from a large herd of Angus cattle.
just sayin...mh
nfh
Long Time Member
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- 7,655
Mightyhunter,
I work out at 4 bear oil field not far from jack creek trailhead. Since the field is right on the mountain we seen 6 grizzly bears in one day. I guess I need to ditch the revolver and switch to a full auto 44 mag!!!!!! They slaughtered the elk calves along with the pack of wolves that stay near our oil field. I love working in that area watching all the wildlife
I work out at 4 bear oil field not far from jack creek trailhead. Since the field is right on the mountain we seen 6 grizzly bears in one day. I guess I need to ditch the revolver and switch to a full auto 44 mag!!!!!! They slaughtered the elk calves along with the pack of wolves that stay near our oil field. I love working in that area watching all the wildlife
L
lm
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jul-08-15 AT 07:04PM (MST)[p]Hello Sureshot, UDAP is a good choice. My work buys several cans per year. Leaks are uncommon, accidental discharges usually are caused by mishandling and they result only in minor to moderate irritation.
Efficacy? Here are some studies to use as reference.
Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf
Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska:
http://www.polarbearsinternational....errence_in_alaska_2014_01_29_15_23_07_utc.pdf
Good luck, pack bear spray and use bear country precautions.
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/hunting-1000970.aspx
Cheers,
Marcio
Efficacy? Here are some studies to use as reference.
Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf
Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska:
http://www.polarbearsinternational....errence_in_alaska_2014_01_29_15_23_07_utc.pdf
Good luck, pack bear spray and use bear country precautions.
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/hunting-1000970.aspx
Cheers,
Marcio
mightyhunter
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Marcio,
Have you read some follow up that has been given by Tom Smith. He is the major author of the two studies you cited.
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-best-bear-spray-for-hunters-is-a-30-06
It is an individual choice as to what you feel is the most effective deterrent for an attacking grizzly bear. The studies you have cited never really differentiate between a charging bear or an inquisitive bear. Trust me, those are two different animals. Based on my experiences, if you are actually charged and attacked by a grizzly bear, the chances are great you will never have the chance to deploy bear spray or to fire a weapon before the attack.
I have a quick question for Marcio. If a person has been mauled, but not killed by a bear, is that person justified in shooting the bear or should bear spray be deployed?
People need to be real careful before they cite studies and proclaim one tool is better than another for self defense for a bear attack. This is especially true for someone with little actual experience in grizzly county. I carry a gun at all times in the Wyoming backcountry. It is never more than two feet from my right hand. I have been doing so for the last 15 years. I usually have bear spray in camp for the inquisitive bear. The firearm is for the bear that attacks me.
You cite the Wyoming Game and Fish website on the issue. I can tell you that last week I ran into two Wyoming Game and Fish employees in the Dead Indian backcountry. They were checking on a grizzly bear who they thought had slipped a tracking collar. They were both carrying bear spray and a firearm. I wonder why?
just sayin...mh
Have you read some follow up that has been given by Tom Smith. He is the major author of the two studies you cited.
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-best-bear-spray-for-hunters-is-a-30-06
It is an individual choice as to what you feel is the most effective deterrent for an attacking grizzly bear. The studies you have cited never really differentiate between a charging bear or an inquisitive bear. Trust me, those are two different animals. Based on my experiences, if you are actually charged and attacked by a grizzly bear, the chances are great you will never have the chance to deploy bear spray or to fire a weapon before the attack.
I have a quick question for Marcio. If a person has been mauled, but not killed by a bear, is that person justified in shooting the bear or should bear spray be deployed?
People need to be real careful before they cite studies and proclaim one tool is better than another for self defense for a bear attack. This is especially true for someone with little actual experience in grizzly county. I carry a gun at all times in the Wyoming backcountry. It is never more than two feet from my right hand. I have been doing so for the last 15 years. I usually have bear spray in camp for the inquisitive bear. The firearm is for the bear that attacks me.
You cite the Wyoming Game and Fish website on the issue. I can tell you that last week I ran into two Wyoming Game and Fish employees in the Dead Indian backcountry. They were checking on a grizzly bear who they thought had slipped a tracking collar. They were both carrying bear spray and a firearm. I wonder why?
just sayin...mh
We got charged by a large boar in the Thorofare during a hunt one time. The guide shot his pistol 3 or 4 times before the bear turned at 10 yards and ran towards some tree's. He then started clawing a tree and growling at us. After a minute or two, he wandered into the trees. I thought the guide was just trying to scare the bear as he never hit it. He then advised he was trying to hit it.
I saw a bear expert claim the best way to practice hitting a charging bear is to have someone throw a basketball down a hill at you. If you can't consistently hit the ball, yer better off using spray. If you carry spray, I'd say to modify yer canister holster so its a bandolier. Lot easier to grab the can if its in front of you as you may only have a couple seconds to react...
I saw a bear expert claim the best way to practice hitting a charging bear is to have someone throw a basketball down a hill at you. If you can't consistently hit the ball, yer better off using spray. If you carry spray, I'd say to modify yer canister holster so its a bandolier. Lot easier to grab the can if its in front of you as you may only have a couple seconds to react...
mightyhunter
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Triple BB,
I have never seen a mature grizzly bear that was the size of a basketball. I have been bluff charged on three separate occasions by a grizzly bear. All of the bears stopped before I ever had to deploy anything. I never ran.I could have killed all of them with a firearm. A grizzly bear that is truly intent on mauling you will likely never give you enough time to protect yourself with anything. If you don't believe that, you should google Jerry Ruth or Brian Loeper. That is why I say there is no perfect solution to the problem and it is a matter of choice. If bear spray is your choice for protection, it should be replaced every other year. It should never be stored where it can be frozen. It should be tested regularly. It should be within 2 ft. of your hand at all times and it must be easy to remove from the holster they come in. It is worthless when deployed into the wind. Not a rare phenomenon in Wyoming. Again, choose what you want to defend yourself and hope to hell you never have to. The best defense is to be careful and pay attention out there.
just sayin...mh
I have never seen a mature grizzly bear that was the size of a basketball. I have been bluff charged on three separate occasions by a grizzly bear. All of the bears stopped before I ever had to deploy anything. I never ran.I could have killed all of them with a firearm. A grizzly bear that is truly intent on mauling you will likely never give you enough time to protect yourself with anything. If you don't believe that, you should google Jerry Ruth or Brian Loeper. That is why I say there is no perfect solution to the problem and it is a matter of choice. If bear spray is your choice for protection, it should be replaced every other year. It should never be stored where it can be frozen. It should be tested regularly. It should be within 2 ft. of your hand at all times and it must be easy to remove from the holster they come in. It is worthless when deployed into the wind. Not a rare phenomenon in Wyoming. Again, choose what you want to defend yourself and hope to hell you never have to. The best defense is to be careful and pay attention out there.
just sayin...mh
Maybe you could've killed them. That doesn't mean everyone else is cool under pressure. Watching my guide miss was a good example. The guy I referenced about the ball stated a basketball is about the size of a grizzly bears head and when he's charging, that's probably what you'll be aiming at. If you can hit it, great. If not, keep practicing or stick with spray...
L
lm
Guest
Hello MightyHunter,
I am not sure what you are suggesting and I am a little confused about your argument. Sorry!
You also asked something about shooting a bear versus spraying a bear. Again I am not sure what is your point.
So... I think I should clarify my post to you. SureShot was asking about quality of bear spray brands and I shared my opinion regarding UDAP. Then I shared two studies to use as reference and one link for bear country precautions.
That is it. No strong points. No drama. No hype. I am glad to hear that you have some experience and made your choice.
Cheers,
Marcio
I am not sure what you are suggesting and I am a little confused about your argument. Sorry!
You also asked something about shooting a bear versus spraying a bear. Again I am not sure what is your point.
So... I think I should clarify my post to you. SureShot was asking about quality of bear spray brands and I shared my opinion regarding UDAP. Then I shared two studies to use as reference and one link for bear country precautions.
That is it. No strong points. No drama. No hype. I am glad to hear that you have some experience and made your choice.
Cheers,
Marcio
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
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Marcio,
No drama and no hype. I couldn't have been clearer with my argument. The point is simple, if you are actually attacked by a grizzly bear the chances are you will never have the opportunity to use bear spray or use a firearm in the initial attack. The bears are stealthy and fast and can be on you in a second. The best protection is awareness at all times (see my earlier posts on the subject). Even after doing all you can to avoid grizzly bear interaction, you may still be attacked by a grizzly bear. That is a fact. I believe that any grizzly bear that mauls or kills a human should be destroyed without discussion.
What concerns me about the bear spray argument is simple. The USFWS and Game and Fish are pushing bear spray all the time. They push the studies you have cited. They do this because they don't want the bears destroyed unless they are the people doing it. In the case of the USFWS, they have little or no concern for your safety or your right of self defense. If you don't believe that, just read their press releases after a bear attack. They always blame it on the person involved. If you can find them, look up the USFWS press releases on the attack and death of the elderly gentleman killed by a grizzly bear on Kitty Creek (west of Cody). You might be shocked about the crap that Chris Servheen of the USFWS was shoveling to the public after that attack.
If you are going to rely on bear spray. You had better have it within a foot or two of your hand at all times. No exceptions. You had better test it frequently to make sure it functions. Make sure the holster it is in will allow you to slip it out smoothly and that the trigger safety can be popped quickly. Make sure the spray has never been frozen while being carried or stored. And you need to hope you can stand and deliver when the bear is 10 feet from you. You don't shoot the spray into the air and hope the bear runs into it. You should also know what happens when you shoot the bear spray into the wind.
just sayin...mh
No drama and no hype. I couldn't have been clearer with my argument. The point is simple, if you are actually attacked by a grizzly bear the chances are you will never have the opportunity to use bear spray or use a firearm in the initial attack. The bears are stealthy and fast and can be on you in a second. The best protection is awareness at all times (see my earlier posts on the subject). Even after doing all you can to avoid grizzly bear interaction, you may still be attacked by a grizzly bear. That is a fact. I believe that any grizzly bear that mauls or kills a human should be destroyed without discussion.
What concerns me about the bear spray argument is simple. The USFWS and Game and Fish are pushing bear spray all the time. They push the studies you have cited. They do this because they don't want the bears destroyed unless they are the people doing it. In the case of the USFWS, they have little or no concern for your safety or your right of self defense. If you don't believe that, just read their press releases after a bear attack. They always blame it on the person involved. If you can find them, look up the USFWS press releases on the attack and death of the elderly gentleman killed by a grizzly bear on Kitty Creek (west of Cody). You might be shocked about the crap that Chris Servheen of the USFWS was shoveling to the public after that attack.
If you are going to rely on bear spray. You had better have it within a foot or two of your hand at all times. No exceptions. You had better test it frequently to make sure it functions. Make sure the holster it is in will allow you to slip it out smoothly and that the trigger safety can be popped quickly. Make sure the spray has never been frozen while being carried or stored. And you need to hope you can stand and deliver when the bear is 10 feet from you. You don't shoot the spray into the air and hope the bear runs into it. You should also know what happens when you shoot the bear spray into the wind.
just sayin...mh
L
lm
Guest
MightyHunter,
Thanks for sharing your opinion and clarifying some of your points.
Cheers,
Marcio
Thanks for sharing your opinion and clarifying some of your points.
Cheers,
Marcio
ThunderBall
Member
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- 91
From a statistical perspective, the conclusions regarding the studies cited, ARE NOT valid. There was no randomization in the selection process of the two groups (guns vs spray). One big factor that could skew the results is the likely possibility that people with guns are hunting, and most with spray are hiking? As such, the intentions, locations, behaviors (of both humans and bears), as well as time of the season, of the encounters, are likely to be quite different. Bears during hunting season with a dead elk near probably behave differently than a bear near a trail in the summer in a national park. It's also possible that hikers in general report encounters at a lower rate... or a higher rate, then hunters? Again, without properly randomizing the study groups, any conclusion that bear spray is MORE or LESS effective than guns, is just not valid even though the authors may claim otherwise.
A quick look on youtube - I found 4 videos of grizzly bear attacks that were successfully turned back by guns being fired. 0 GRIZZLEY'S videoed being turned back by bear spray.. but there's 1 audio recording from two people who used bear spray that are now dead (no video because the camera was in the dirt I assume). My guess is that the odds of catching an attack on video is roughly the same for each group.
A quick look on youtube - I found 4 videos of grizzly bear attacks that were successfully turned back by guns being fired. 0 GRIZZLEY'S videoed being turned back by bear spray.. but there's 1 audio recording from two people who used bear spray that are now dead (no video because the camera was in the dirt I assume). My guess is that the odds of catching an attack on video is roughly the same for each group.
Vikingload
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At the end of the day it is what you are comfortable carrying and being able to deploy effectively in a high stress situation. I personally carry pistol and bear spray at all times, whether I'm hunting, camping, scouting or just hiking. If I go up to an area I know that is thick with bears I carry my 45-70 lever action. Like a lot of other people have written here keeping you head on a swivel, knowing your country and making good decisions help greatly in bear country. Bear spray is great I believe in thick brush on a non windy day, but again it's what the user is comfortable with and can deploy quickly. As for why I carry spray and a pistol even if I have a rifle; is based on my life in the military and seeing even the best hardware fail, enter murphy's law hahaha!!!! I know when I hunt elk or deer there are times my rifle is up against a tree while I glass or while I'm gutting a animal out, its at these times I like having a back up on my person. Again it goes back to what your comfortable with and practicing with that weapon system, whether its just drawing the gun or spray over and over, this will help you build the muscle memory to effectively deploy your gun or spray when ##### hits the fan. As for a brand of spray UDAP is what I use and what we used to use when we owned buffalo and would charge us while working them. I seen this spray stop a buffalo in full charge more times than I care to remember!!
P.S. I do love the advice about carrying the pack with you whether you need it or not, that is great advice and another level of protection that a lot of people over look at times.
P.S. I do love the advice about carrying the pack with you whether you need it or not, that is great advice and another level of protection that a lot of people over look at times.
DonVathome
Very Active Member
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Good info, IMO if I have a gun I am fine no need for more weight. No brainer. I do "think" spray could be easier since it covers a wider area" but that is my theory. When bowhunting I usually still do not carry it. As mentioned the odds of it helping are soooo low - drive 1 mph slower today and you will likely do more good for your overall survival.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
