BESSY! Here is your chance: Fix the Henry’s

elkassassin said:
Your F'N Memory Is Way Worse Than Mine!

Do I Need To Re-Post HELL-F'N-RIGHT For You Again?

I Think Horsecorn has The Only Answer That'll Help!

Close Em!

The KING Ain't Gonna Like It Though!
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Have you ever killed a trophy buck or bull? You sure do complain a lot.
 
Elkster-

Let’s cut the crap and clear the air once and for all. You spent 20+ years chasing a specific elk tag and bitching and moaning the entire time. We all listened to you for the better part of two decades. Did you finally burn those points and draw an elk tag? If so, come clean and provide a report. If not, then you should have 26 or 27 points by now. Are you holding out until the San Juan returns to its 2002-2008 level of quality? That could be a long wait. ?

Hawkeye
 
elkassassin said:
Hey PUNK!

I Never Said It Would!

But Let's Say You Had 25 Points!

You Pulled a Henrie's Tag!

You Shootin A Buck Worth 25 Years Of Your Life?

Wasn't But a Few Years Back You Could Have!

You Admit Yourself The Cream Is Skimmed Every Year!

The DWR Cut A Few Tags Before I Even Suggested It!

I Don't See One Of You PISSED At The DWR!

But When I Mentioned it.......................!

How Else You Gonna Raise The Quality On a Few Bucks In a Timely Manner?

Remember: Bucks Don't Have Fawns!

We Could Use Horsecorns Advice & Just Close It!

That'll PISS The KING Off!

I Only Suggested Cutting A Few Tags In Hopes Of Raising The Quality a Little For Guys Wanting/Hoping To Someday Have A Chance at a Decent Buck!

The DWR Beat Me To It & They Had Already Cut A Few Tags That I Didn't Even Know About Until JakeH Posted It!

Homer Mentioned the 1080 which I Agree With It!

But How You Gonna Use It Without Killing a F'N Tweety Bird that Some GREENIE Would Scream about?
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You have to roll with what's available that year, there's nothing we can do about it on the year we draw.

My friends wife drew Henry’s in 21, we killed the best buck we could find during a down year.
She drew a bad hand playing poker, deal with it and do the best you can do.

I know people sitting on max points for Henry’s waiting for multiple 220" bucks to return.
Not going to happen!

The Henry’s aren't hurting for herd numbers, therefore they aren't even remotely close to shutting it down.
Cut 10 tags, the same top end bucks will get killed and you're not solving a dang thing.
 
It sure is a vicious cycle. But in my eyes there’s no way out. I don’t want to wait 25 yeas to kill a 25” buck. I’ll go without.
 
I Agree!

But What Have You(Not Personally You!) turned the Premium LE Unit In to?

A PISSCUTTER Hunt That Takes 25+ Points To Draw,That's What!

According To What JakeH Posted and That's What The DWR Is Claiming That's A Low Total of Number Of Deer For A Mountain Range of That Size!

I Agree,Hunters Waiting For Their Turn at a 220" Henrie's Buck are gonna be a little Disappointed!

It's Been Going Down For Years!

We Gonna Just Keep Pounding It Until It Has To Be Closed!

Or Are We Gonna Makes Some Changes For The Good?

It Won't Be Long & It's Gonna Be Hard To Turn a Buck in to Buck$!





slamdunk said:
You have to roll with what's available that year, there's nothing we can do about it on the year we draw.

My friends wife drew Henry’s in 21, we killed the best buck we could find during a down year.
She drew a bad hand playing poker, deal with it and do the best you can do.

I know people sitting on max points for Henry’s waiting for multiple 220" bucks to return.
Not going to happen!

The Henry’s aren't hurting for herd numbers, therefore they aren't even remotely close to shutting it down.
Cut 10 tags, the same top end bucks will get killed and you're not solving a dang thing.
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Got a Few Points hawky!

Pay More Attention!

From about 2005 thru 2010 woulda been some of the Best I've Seen!

I More Than Likely Won't Live Long Enough For a Mentor Hunt But That's The Plan For Now!

Don't Forget about The RIDE This Fall!

Sharp Pencils & A Notebook Will Be Mandatory!

And Remember:

You're Bringing Our HARD-HEADED Little Friend With You!




Hawkeye said:
Elkster-

Let’s cut the crap and clear the air once and for all. You spent 20+ years chasing a specific elk tag and bitching and moaning the entire time. We all listened to you for the better part of two decades. Did you finally burn those points and draw an elk tag? If so, come clean and provide a report. If not, then you should have 26 or 27 points by now. Are you holding out until the San Juan returns to its 2002-2008 level of quality? That could be a long wait. ?

Hawkeye
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elkassassin said:
I Agree!

But What Have You(Not Personally You!) turned the Premium LE Unit In to?

A PISSCUTTER Hunt That Takes 25+ Points To Draw,That's What!

According To What JakeH Posted and That's What The DWR Is Claiming That's A Low Total of Number Of Deer For A Mountain Range of That Size!

I Agree,Hunters Waiting For Their Turn at a 220" Henrie's Buck are gonna be a little Disappointed!

It's Been Going Down For Years!

We Gonna Just Keep Pounding It Until It Has To Be Closed!

Or Are We Gonna Makes Some Changes For The Good?

It Won't Be Long & It's Gonna Be Hard To Turn a Buck in to Buck$!
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Here's a dirty little secret.

The evil opportunists, aren't hunting the Henries.

Seems the trophy hunters are destroying their own playground.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the issue is trophy hunting?
 
hossblur said:
Here's a dirty little secret.

The evil opportunists, aren't hunting the Henries.

Seems the trophy hunters are destroying their own playground.
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Oak Creek is next, might be a decade before it's an "average" unit but it's the one getting all the Outfitter focus and publicity.
hossblur said:
Perhaps, just perhaps, the issue is trophy hunting?
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elkassassin said:
If It Was Managed Properly It Wouldn't Have To Be Closed!
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I couldn't agree more, nor do I think anyone would disagree with proper management but it's not as simple as it sounds or seems.

Every year things change that are out of our control and adjustments have to be made accordingly.

We've cut tags state wide by 120,000 already just as every western state also made cuts, yet we are all seeing declines.

The issue isn't management, it's much bigger.
 
BrowningRage said:
How come we don't here any private landowners or CWMU managers complaining about deer numbers or quality.??
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Because they are "private" and just not talked about.

My friend owns and runs one up by 9 Mile and he is saying the same thing.
They rarely use one of their 6 tags because they are trying to not hunt it, but the outcome is the same.
It's NOT hunting
 
Well!

After hawky Started The Prosecution Post Last Night!

I'm Mighty Surprised I Wasn't HUNG Today While I Was Gone!:D

I Hope Everybody Had a Great Day Today!
 
elkassassin said:
Well!

After hawky Started The Prosecution Post Last Night!

I'm Mighty Surprised I Wasn't HUNG Today While I Was Gone!:D

I Hope Everybody Had a Great Day Today!
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Elkster, I’m not looking to hang you. I’m just curious if you burned your elk points on a tag or if you will take them to the grave with you. Clear answers are not your strength my friend. I guess that will remain a mm.com mystery!

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
Elkster, I’m not looking to hang you. I’m just curious if you burned your elk points on a tag or if you will take them to the grave with you. Clear answers are not your strength my friend. I guess that will remain a mm.com mystery!

Hawkeye
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There is an answer, and it's most likely why he's been more pissy lately.

Quarter century, pooof
 
scopenstalk said:
Is there conjecture that Bess drew and ate his tag is that what I'm hearing?
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He was hanging out down in the San jaun a lot during the bow hunt this year, I'm thinking a multi season tag. And I just check the 2022 harvest data
, 3 tags, 3 hunters afield but....... only 2 harvested bulls. 7 day average for days afield, and a 2.7 hunter satisfaction rating out of 5. My guess is bessy's grade dropped that average a bunch.

Here is a link the the harvest data if you care to look yourself. There was also 3 unfilled tags foe early rifle as well.
 
So if you took doe's from the island before they gave birth and or some after they was breed and took them to new units that need help in the way of a better genetic's.
It also would keep the herd from over grazing the island.
They would still have the genetic of those type of Island bucks in the unborn fawns. Collar those doe's so you can find out if those fawns was helping the herd or not.
Coyotes are a Hugh problem in every unit. Maybe the idea that you had to tun in a dead coyote to get in the drawing for those units. I know it sounds crazy but just B!tching about don't get it done.
 
Gator said:
So if you took doe's from the island before they gave birth and or some after they was breed and took them to new units that need help in the way of a better genetic's.
It also would keep the herd from over grazing the island.
They would still have the genetic of those type of Island bucks in the unborn fawns. Collar those doe's so you can find out if those fawns was helping the herd or not.
Coyotes are a Hugh problem in every unit. Maybe the idea that you had to tun in a dead coyote to get in the drawing for those units. I know it sounds crazy but just B!tching about don't get it done.
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That whole herd don't eat what 10 buffs do.
 
Vanilla said:
Alright Bobcatbess, there have been lots of threads talking about this, and now you’re getting your very own. Here is your chance to get rid of all the terrible management of the last 40 years (or is it 50 now?), and fix the Henry Mountains deer herd. JakeH had a great question that in classic Bessy fashion, you duck. But you can’t duck this one.

I’m not asking you to tell me the one thing you’d do, or even the top 3 things. Tell me what you’d do to fix the herd on just the Henry’s. If it’s 13 things, great. If it’s 113, sweet! Just tell us what.

Here are the ground rules:

1- This is only the Henry’s. We don’t care about your pizzcutters in the basin. We’re not fixing the Book Cliffs, just the Henry’s. This is an isolate deer herd that is unique, and it’s struggling. Fix it, nothing else.

2- Save us all the BS that won’t do anything for the herd. We don’t care what color trucks people drive or what type of mattress they sleep on, so stuck HELL RIGHT where the sun don’t shine and just stick to things that actually will help the Henry’s deer herd. Heck, even the life sentence for poaching isn’t going to do anything as poaching isn’t what put that herd where it is at.

Those two rules, that’s it. The world is your canvas. Tell us how you’d fix the Henry Mountains today when I make you king and you can do anything you want.

Let’s hear it Cat. Whatchu got? Put up or shut up time.
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Heres my fix! Shut unit down for 5-7 years Done It’s Fixed
 
joesikora said:
Heres my fix! Shut unit down for 5-7 years Done It’s Fixed
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Joe-

You and Bessy are cut from the same cloth. Your "fix" will stockpile some older class bucks for the first few years and then we will be right back where we are today. It will do nothing to increase herd numbers. Heck, why don't we just shut down hunting for 5-7 years statewide and fix all of our problems? Better yet, let's shut down hunting permanently and we will have the greatest herds in the West! (n)

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
Joe-

You and Bessy are cut from the same cloth. Your "fix" will stockpile some older class bucks for the first few years and then we will be right back where we are today. It will do nothing to increase herd numbers. Heck, why don't we just shut down hunting for 5-7 years statewide and fix all of our problems? Better yet, let's shut down hunting permanently and we will have the greatest herds in the West! (n)

Hawkeye
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Hi Hawk! How they hanging? Great hearing from you! Telling me I’m cut with the same cloth as the Cat is one hell of a compliment for me. It may not be that the Cat feels the same LOL! As far as my idea! I didn’t say I knew what I was talking about I just said that’s my fix! LOL!

Hope to hear from you more I really enjoyed talking to you on the phone several times! I always felt more enlighten after our chats! Thanks my friend!
 
joesikora said:
Hi Hawk! How they hanging? Great hearing from you! Telling me I’m cut with the same cloth as the Cat is one hell of a compliment for me. It may not be that the Cat feels the same LOL! As far as my idea! I didn’t say I knew what I was talking about I just said that’s my fix! LOL!

Hope to hear from you more I really enjoyed talking to you on the phone several times! I always felt more enlighten after our chats! Thanks my friend!
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Joe, life is good. How are things in Michigan?

You should go watch some of the DWR videos linked in the recent threads. I don't agree with the everything in their presentations but they really try to explain and educate sportsmen as to the problems we are facing and what changes will actually help address those problems. We have all tried to educate Bessy on these issues but he is beyond help. ;)

Hawkeye
 
Horsecorn said:
Here we go again. It helps and no one is going to convince me otherwise.
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It's only a temporary bandaid, it's not a fix.

Absolutely I remember the Books and Henry's after their 3 year closures, great bucks everywhere.

Now we're here at this point after all that work and time.

Closing hunts doesn't grow a herd, it only temporarily saves the bulk of those older class bucks that would have been harvested otherwise.
 
The drought has more to do with the low deer numbers and the size of bucks being smaller.

Even after the closer on the Henries the deer numbers where still not what could have been or should have been on the Henries.

I would like to see some statistics on does that have fawns and the number of fawn surviving there first couple years.

The Henries brags about buck to doe ratios but that's not a good measure of a herds health.

It would be nice to see a few hundred more doe deer down there.
 
That’s fine about the drought. But I’m not Mother Earth and you aren’t either so we can’t make it rain. it’s not ever going to get better unless you shut it down for a few. And yes it will only be good for a few years but thats better than what we got. Close it down and just maybe you might save some fawns that other wise get harassed all summer from guys scouting with 4 wheelers etc. but I’ve already said that before. Ok slam if closing down the unit doesnt help then tell me why private land hunting where the land owner limits animals killed Is so much better if shooting bucks don’t Grow a herd.
 
Explain to me how having more bucks will make it better??

Its not atvs that are killing the fawns!!

What private land is just kicking out so many deer because there holding back on buck tags??

Alton?? No
Deseret?? No
Ensign?? No

As far as im concerned shuting it down to the buck hunts only let's a few deer grow older and as I have said before I think a wet year will show that there is plenty of good bucks on that mountain they just have been in a drought for so long it has effected the quality but not age class.


Now let's hope for so rain throught the summer and see.
 
And tribal lands also because they aren’t shooting the st-t out of them. I’ll tell you what. Close it down for 4 years And after that 4 years I don’t want you putting in for that hunt because you said it won’t be any better. it will still suck so no need for you.
 
Uintah basin. And also I ownd 14,000 acres up by Hana and every Tom dick and harry was trespassing. And do you want to know why. because it’s so much better than the state hunts. Because we didn’t shoot the sh-t out of everything. Go figure. No since you hunting the Alton ranch or deseret because it sucks.
 
I don't doubt it's bettet then public general units most private is.

I also do not doubt you do a great job on my property but that all being said the only thing shutting down the Henries deer hunt will do is let a few more bucks get older! But it won't help overall numbers without moisture and good range.

I see a big difference of running several 1000 acres by public land much different then maintaining a unit like the Henries.

One the Henries is one whole herd of deer that has many different challenges.

2 most private attracts surrounding animals off public ground and that's not really a bad thing it's just a fact.
 
Well you know what. Isn’t that what we are doing is hunting bucks. I’m not hunting does or fawns so bigger bucks is a good thing. And why is it that the animals stay on the private. Because of all the 4 wheelers, side x sides trucks campers and so on. They are not harassed to death just like I said before. Thanks for proving my point.
 
I know plenty of property's that hold the deer and elk and moose that have as much atv action or more as the Henries.

Also I'm betting the unit you're on doesn't have to many deer it's just the fact that they find some refuge on you're place..

Do you think that deer just keep getting bigger with age??

Age is just one of the things deer need and deer at 5 to 7 are most likely the best antler growth and score, not always the case but usually.

What's the avrage age on henrys deer ??
 
Now we’re shutting down hunting to save the fawns! :ROFLMAO:

Except for that pesky fact we’ve confirmed through data all across the west that excess bucks compete for food with fawns and are a detriment to fawn survival.

But we’ll just ignore biology entirely now. Shut the whole state down! Can you imagine how great the hunting will be with nobody hunting? Seems like heaven for the antis on this website.

It’s been fun, but this discussion has officially jumped the shark!
 
I didn’t say I wanted it shut down. The question was, what would you do to get it back. And you heard my answer. I don’t hunt down there so I really don’t care about that. I just like to argue.
 
Horsecorn said:
I didn’t say I wanted it shut down. The question was, what would you do to get it back. And you heard my answer. I don’t hunt down there so I really don’t care about that. I just like to argue.
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You and the other 90% on here ? ? ?

The Henry's won't do good until we get out of the drought and get the normal moisture we need down there. Also we better kill those elk or the deer hunt there will be a thing of the past!
 
Horsecorn said:
The question was, what would you do to get it back.
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Correction: the question was asked what would Whoopi do to fix the Henry’s. But his non-answers allowed everyone to see he has no good solutions for the issues he complains about, so the thread fulfilled its purpose.
 
Vanilla said:
Correction: the question was asked what would Whoopi do to fix the Henry’s. But his non-answers allowed everyone to see he has no good solutions for the issues he complains about, so the thread fulfilled its purpose.
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Sadly there is no good answer as like someone said we are not mother nature and some of the most important things that are needed on the Henry's is help from mother nature!! Mostly some more moisture throughout the summer..
 
Hey Niller!

I've Told You Many a Times!

The 3-4 Things You wanna Try Ain't Gonna Fix It Until You Put 40-50 More Fixes With Them 3-4!

I Told You I Can't Fix It Alone!

Are You PISSED About The DWR Cutting a Few Tags?

I Also Heard There's A Few Guys Thinking About Starting A Committee To Abolish Lifetime License Holders!

Now If That Doesn't PISS The KING Off I Don't Know What Will!



Vanilla said:
Correction: the question was asked what would Whoopi do to fix the Henry’s. But his non-answers allowed everyone to see he has no good solutions for the issues he complains about, so the thread fulfilled its purpose.
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Great shutting down units mean when they open it take forever to draw a tag. That is great for the trophy hunter BUT the guys who live and work in that unit who just like getting out and hunt deer close to home it doesn't work for those Guys and Gal's.
That is a big deal for getting young hunters in the field IMO
 
elkassassin said:
I Told You I Can't Fix It Alone!
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If you can’t fix it alone when you were given license and the resources to do ANYTHING you wanted…then that means it can’t be fixed.

And therefore I’m done listening to you yap about “40 Years Of Mismanagement!!!!!” (Or is it 50 now?) JUDAS!

Poop or get off the pot, Whoopi. And since you couldn’t poop, it’s time to let someone else sit on the throne.
 
You're The KING Niller!

You Got The Throne!

Vanilla said:
If you can’t fix it alone when you were given license and the resources to do ANYTHING you wanted…then that means it can’t be fixed.

And therefore I’m done listening to you yap about “40 Years Of Mismanagement!!!!!” (Or is it 50 now?) JUDAS!

Poop or get off the pot, Whoopi. And since you couldn’t poop, it’s time to let someone else sit on the throne.
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notrace said:
The people I've been talking too would like to see more cuts in tags I for one wouldn't mind hunting every other year or even every 3rd year would be fine if we could see a few more bucks!!
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It's already a multi year deal between tags in alot of units, now you want it to be 4-6? The general unit I hunt takes 3 points to draw rifle, at least 1 for muzzleloaders maybe 2, and at least 1 for archery. And it's in the land of pisscutters that bess always brings up.

They've already cut tags by over 100,000 30 years ago what more do you want? I used to be in the cut tags group until I realized how much they have actually cut tags, and started understanding how they was managing the herds.

Call me an opportunist if you want I guess, but hunting once every 5 years if we are lucky isn't going to cut it for me.
 
1 tag every 5 years is “opportunity” by some peoples’ definition.

Heaven help us all.

I’m with you JakeH!
 
I might add, I killed my biggest buck on that same pisscutter general season unit, a 190" typical. I will also add, my buddy is a taxidermist here in the basin, the majority of the bigger bucks he is getting in for the last few years are coming off of the general season units and not the LE units.

If you want to increase the number of better quality bucks on the land scape you have two options. 1: cut a crap ton of tags, make every unit a LE once or twice a lifetime hunt. Or 2: and this is not going to be easy, change the narrative and mindset of the majority of hunters so they feel that they don't have to fill their tag, they will pass on the smaller bucks. I personally think the people with that mindset is growing. You will never get everyone in that camp, but you don't have too.
 
Horsecorn said:
That’s fine about the drought. But I’m not Mother Earth and you aren’t either so we can’t make it rain. it’s not ever going to get better unless you shut it down for a few. And yes it will only be good for a few years but thats better than what we got. Close it down and just maybe you might save some fawns that other wise get harassed all summer from guys scouting with 4 wheelers etc. but I’ve already said that before. Ok slam if closing down the unit doesnt help then tell me why private land hunting where the land owner limits animals killed Is so much better if shooting bucks don’t Grow a herd.
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Because they severely limit tags in the first place.
You answered that yourself.
But even at that, saving bucks isn't what grows a herd.

Ensign Ranches for instance.
Almost 60k acres, very abundant herd numbers, high buck ratios and maybe, 20 bucks harvested.
Also, private land animals aren't "private", they come and go as they please.
Wildlife prefer private property because it's generally more quiet, less human pressure and the habitat is generally better taken care of by micro management.

It's hard to compare a CWMU to public land hunting, you're talking apples and oranges as far as the whole operation works, and you're talking about small parcels versus hundreds of thousands of acres of public lands.

Sure, shutting down a unit allows more "bucks" to survive temporarily, but it's not rebounding the "herd".
 
southernutahhunter said:
no one ever mentions how shutting the Pauns down increased the deer herd from nothing to where it is today.
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The Paunsaugunt has never been "shot out", not even close.

A multitude of conservation projects like dozens of guzzlers, miles of highway fencing, dozens of tunnels for safe crossing and massive assaults on predators is what has saved does, which has built that herd back up.
 
notrace said:
Explain to me how having more bucks will make it better??

Its not atvs that are killing the fawns!!

What private land is just kicking out so many deer because there holding back on buck tags??

Alton?? No
Deseret?? No
Ensign?? No

As far as im concerned shuting it down to the buck hunts only let's a few deer grow older and as I have said before I think a wet year will show that there is plenty of good bucks on that mountain they just have been in a drought for so long it has effected the quality but not age class.


Now let's hope for so rain throught the summer and see.
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100% correct
 
I watched my older brother shoot his first deer on the Pauns with a lever action 32 win. special in 1976. The Pauns was closed down the following year. It seems like it was closed for 10 years but I'm not certain.
About 1999 I helped Yelum with his management tag on the Heaton Ranch.
From a State wide general unit, closed unit, premium limited entry cwmu. The change over 25 years was incredible.
I found a pic of Yelum's buck. Alot of good memories over the years.
66.jpeg
 
SirHuntsalot said:
I watched my older brother shoot his first deer on the Pauns with a lever action 32 win. special in 1976. The Pauns was closed down the following year. It seems like it was closed for 10 years but I'm not certain.
About 1999 I helped Yelum with his management tag on the Heaton Ranch.
From a State wide general unit, closed unit, premium limited entry cwmu. The change over 25 years was incredible.
I found a pic of Yelum's buck. Alot of good memories over the years. View attachment 108235
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Sure miss that Guy!!
 
Give out more tags. Stop treating it like an amusement park for the rich and extremely lucky. Tell hunters the reality of big buck hunting. It isn't easy and never is a guarantee. There you go, the real problem, which is hunter perception, is fixed. The other herd limiting factors the department already understands and they can address those which are within their power to address.
 
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slamdunk said:
These new regs are clamping down on that, which will help.......I hope.
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hopefully they can find a way to enforce them too. I am not complaining but in some ways it's comical that the limited stuff I do apply for I always think "how much attention does White Toyota Man have on this area." and also "Is that something I want to have to put up with or should I apply somewhere that gets less attention from the big guiding businesses."
 
scopenstalk said:
hopefully they can find a way to enforce them too. I am not complaining but in some ways it's comical that the limited stuff I do apply for I always think "how much attention does White Toyota Man have on this area." and also "Is that something I want to have to put up with or should I apply somewhere that gets less attention from the big guiding businesses."
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It's a "Raptor" now......just sayin.
 
Just for conversation but why wouldn’t shutting down a unit help grown the bucks to big boys and increase the population that all the does are not getting whacked? I know Pope County shut down doe, spike, and any deer with less than 4 points for several years to grow the population back. To many hunters were just killing anything they saw! No I’m not a biologist and don’t play one on MM so why wouldn’t that work on the Henry? I’ll call IDNR and see why, how, and what was the outcome. Now I’m not saying UT G&F should do this and I’m not saying I know anything about this I’m just saying what IDNR did in Pope County. I understand nobody wants to stop hunting the Henry but maybe make the restrictions tougher. Most guys are there to kill a monster anyway right?
Here’s want we do in IL. To kill the big bucks you have to eliminate does. The less does the more the trophy bucks have to come out to find them. This is mainly done on private property. There’s a hunt club in IL that they drive around at night and just shoot does and let them lay. They have to kill 12 does per 1 buck. To grow the population no killing of does, spikes, and a buck has to have at least four points on one side.
I don’t know if you can manage whitetail and Muley deer the same. What say you?!
 
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berrysblaster said:
If I hadn’t met Bess on a couple different occasions, this thread alone would be enough to believe he wasn’t real
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He's been on here longer than me. And I've been on here over 20 years. I don't ever recall seeing a pic he posted! Does anyone? Kinda reduces a guys credibilty. I totally get not posting and leaving yourself wide open for having the unmitigated gall to kill a "pisscutter". Still....

I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't mind seeing a couple pics from the ole cat! That's the main reason I come to this site! IT'S DAMN SURE NOT TO ARGUE WITH SOME FACELESS DUDE ON THE INTERNET.

Just sayin'. Yeah, I'm from Wyoming, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

Just don't cut NR tag allocations! :)

As bad as winter was here in western Wy, we will still be hunting bucks this fall. And it won't have any effect on recruitment whatsoever.

Biology 101.
 
Waitin For Nillers Response!
joesikora said:
Just for conversation but why wouldn’t shutting down a unit help grown the bucks to big boys and increase the population that all the does are not getting whacked? I know Pope County shut down doe, spike, and any deer with less than 4 points for several years to grow the population back. To many hunters were just killing anything they saw! No I’m not a biologist and don’t play one on MM so why wouldn’t that work on the Henry? I’ll call IDNR and see why, how, and what was the outcome. Now I’m not saying UT G&F should do this and I’m not saying I know anything about this I’m just saying what IDNR did in Pope County. I understand nobody wants to stop hunting the Henry but maybe make the restrictions tougher. Most guys are there to kill a monster anyway right?
Here’s want we do in IL. To kill the big bucks you have to eliminate does. The less does the more the trophy bucks have to come out to find them. This is mainly done on private property. There’s a hunt club in IL that they drive around at night and just shoot does and let them lay. They have to kill 12 does per 1 buck. You have to mount your deer and have a replica of it made to permanently grace the club. you can only shoot the deer they want you to shoot. They host free hunts for politicians and their friends. I’m sure that’s why no one questions their management style. To grow the population no killing of does, spikes, and a buck has to have at least four points on one side.
I don’t know if you can manage whitetail and Muley deer the same. What say you?!
Click to expand...
 
joesikora said:
Just for conversation but why wouldn’t shutting down a unit help grown the bucks to big boys and increase the population that all the does are not getting whacked? I know Pope County shut down doe, spike, and any deer with less than 4 points for several years to grow the population back. To many hunters were just killing anything they saw! No I’m not a biologist and don’t play one on MM so why wouldn’t that work on the Henry? I’ll call IDNR and see why, how, and what was the outcome. Now I’m not saying UT G&F should do this and I’m not saying I know anything about this I’m just saying what IDNR did in Pope County. I understand nobody wants to stop hunting the Henry but maybe make the restrictions tougher. Most guys are there to kill a monster anyway right?
Here’s want we do in IL. To kill the big bucks you have to eliminate does. The less does the more the trophy bucks have to come out to find them. This is mainly done on private property. There’s a hunt club in IL that they drive around at night and just shoot does and let them lay. They have to kill 12 does per 1 buck. You have to mount your deer and have a replica of it made to permanently grace the club. you can only shoot the deer they want you to shoot. They host free hunts for politicians and their friends. I’m sure that’s why no one questions their management style. To grow the population no killing of does, spikes, and a buck has to have at least four points on one side.
I don’t know if you can manage whitetail and Muley deer the same. What say you?!
Click to expand...
Joe........... there hasn't been a doe killed on the Henrys by a hunter for probably 30 years. Yet the population has still declined. In fact there is very little doe hunting in the whole state.

Yes closing down the unit would allow the very few bucks killed on the unit every year to grow, there is already very very limited hunting on the unit, like one of the most restrictive hunting units in all the western states. There are 40-50 bucks per 100 does on the unit, and it is managed that way. So you can cut those 50 or so tags out of the unit but at what cost? Now you just made it way harder to draw a tag.

As far as the rest of the stuff you posted.... I don't even know what to say.... but no you probably can't manage muleys the same way you can whitetails.
 
Is this the reason G&F stop the use of trail cameras and scopes on muzzleloaders? I see that they added shotguns for hunting though.
We have to use Shotguns with slugs all the time. Mrs Sikora’s Browning Gold Hunter with a 26” barrel with IMP Cylinder that I can hit a fly at 80 yards. I never tried any farther than that before. I’ve heard guys said the can shoot out to 100 + yards and some say they can hit a deer at 200 yards +/- with a muzzleloader. I used a friends shotgun back in 1981 on my first gun deer tag and I shot a 4’x8’ sheet of plywood and was way off then the guy said to aim 2’ to the left and drop 1’. LOL! It worked. We don’t have to shoot a long way because we’re hunting in a tree stand and you usually don’t shoot more then 30yds!
 

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