BESSY! Here is your chance: Fix the Henry’s

[Vanilla]

Waitin For Nillers Response!

How many doe tags they give out on the Henry’s Whoopi?

How many bucks with less than 4 points are killed each year on the Henry’s?

The Henry’s is already what Joe described; yet here we are.

 

[joesikora]

So I think Bessy said No does are killed in the Henry’s at all?!
If not start a special hunt to do just that.Do you think that would work? If your drawn on that doe hunt you don’t lose your points of course. You can donate the meat or fill your freeze. I‘d fill my freezer.
What do you say?

 

[slamdunk]

Same could be said for your crusade to get scopes off muzzies ? By your own explanation it wouldn’t fix anything.

Explain with logical reason why you're concerned about losing a muzzleloader scope?

I've already explained the committee's position on this a dozen times......

 

[joesikora]

Explain with reason why you're concerned about losing a muzzleloader scope?

I've already explained the committee's position on this a dozen times......

Sorry Slammer I didn’t see the dozen times you posted that. As far as the scopes it was the R that were complaining it didn’t interest me enough to read. Also why are you attacking me for just telling what may state does. As I said I don’t know if that would work in UT or other western states with mule deer. We only have whitetail deer! Also I wouldn’t apply for a muzzy tag. I applied for one in NM one time and one time only and I killed this one

 

[slamdunk]

Sorry Slammer I didn’t see the dozen times you posted that. As far as the scopes it was the R that were complaining it didn’t interest me enough to read. Also why are you attacking me for just telling what may state does. As I said I don’t know if that would work in UT or other western states with mule deer. We only have whitetail deer!

Lol Joe.....I answered Hunter21's quote, not you my friend.

 

[joesikora]

Lol Joe.....I answered Hunter21's quote, not you my friend.

Cool!

 

[elkassassin]

I Said:

Waitin For It!

How many doe tags they give out on the Henry’s Whoopi?

How many bucks with less than 4 points are killed each year on the Henry’s?

The Henry’s is already what Joe described; yet here we are.

 

[JakeH]

So I think Bessy said No does are killed in the Henry’s at all?!
If not start a special hunt to do just that.Do you think that would work? If your drawn on that doe hunt you don’t lose your points of course. You can donate the meat or fill your freeze. I‘d fill my freezer.
What do you say?

Why on earth would you want to kill doe's if you are trying to grow the herd? Still not understanding the logic in that.

 

[Vanilla]

I’m baffled by the direction this thread just took.

Absolutely flabbergasted. Good night, all!

 

[elkassassin]

So The Big Bucks Come Out!

Why on earth would you want to kill doe's if you are trying to grow the herd? Still not understanding the logic in that.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Niller!

It Is Past Your Bedtime!

I’m baffled by the direction this thread just took.

Absolutely flabbergasted. Good night, all!

 

[Hunter21]

Explain with logical reason why you're concerned about losing a muzzleloader scope?

I've already explained the committee's position on this a dozen times......

Just my opinion but I don’t think scopes on muzzies have much of an effect, if any on our deer herds. Therefore I don’t feel there is any reason to take them off. Why change it just to say you changed it? You have given no evidence that it has had an effect on our deer herd. If there was or is evidence of a big impact on the herd I would be 100 percent behind you in taking them off.
The only reason they will probably come off is because you and others are concerned the “cream of the crop” is being taken off these premium limited entry units. Yet you say taking bucks off a unit doesn’t effect the herd. But apparently taking big money bucks off does??
I’m just not a fan of taking off thousands of scopes off of thousands of general season hunters muzzies to appease these very few limited tags. If you feel scopes are the reason for the decline of big bucks on theses units take them off for those specific units.

 

[JakeH]

So The Big Bucks Come Out!

Nothing but pisscutters on the henerys these days Bess, it wouldn't do any good.

 

[slamdunk]

@Hunter21

Great post, you've paid attention very well to numerous discussions, not just one.

First and foremost, the muzzleloader hunts were never intended and implemented to become a "long range" hunt.
We have let it become that ourselves.

As our quality has been on a steady decline throughout the west for multiple reasons, technology has advanced to keep you as a hunter successful by continuing to give the hunter the edge over the animals through emerging technological advancements in rifles and components.

Had quality and quantity of quality remained high, a hunter would not need a muzzleloader that is capable of killing at 500 yards because we could be successful at 100 like we were years ago.

Sure, not every muzzleloader hunter is killing deer at 500 yards.........yet.

Do we draw the line in the sand now like we should have 10 years ago, or wait another 10 till every muzzleloader manufacturer is making rifles cheaper and just as effective as the Gunwerks rifle and we all have one?
That is EXACTLY what happened with the introduction of the inlines, undisputed fact.

BTW.....I do like your idea of limiting variable scopes on LE units and I will bring that up in our next meeting as "public input".

Having said that, the WB is asking for 3 muzzleloader descriptions, General, Restricted and Primitive.
As we have it sitting now on a tabled discussion, "General" is any muzzleloader with a maximum of 1x scope.
"Restricted" would be open sight only (HAMS)
"Primitive" is percussion style in the event future hunts are created for this type of weapon.

 

[Delta]

 

[Hunter21]

@Hunter21

Great post, you've paid attention very well to numerous discussions, not just one.

First and foremost, the muzzleloader hunts were never intended and implemented to become a "long range" hunt.
We have let it become that ourselves.

As our quality has been on a steady decline throughout the west for multiple reasons, technology has advanced to keep you as a hunter successful by continuing to give the hunter the edge over the animals through emerging technological advancements in rifles and components.

Had quality and quantity of quality remained high, a hunter would not need a muzzleloader that is capable of killing at 500 yards because we could be successful at 100 like we were years ago.

Sure, not every muzzleloader hunter is killing deer at 500 yards.........yet.

Do we draw the line in the sand now like we should have 10 years ago, or wait another 10 till every muzzleloader manufacturer is making rifles cheaper and just as effective as the Gunwerks rifle and we all have one?
That is EXACTLY what happened with the introduction of the inlines, undisputed fact.

BTW.....I do like your idea of limiting variable scopes on LE units and I will bring that up in our next meeting as "public input".

Having said that, the WB is asking for 3 muzzleloader descriptions, General, Restricted and Primitive.
As we have it sitting now on a tabled discussion, "General" is any muzzleloader with a maximum of 1x scope.
"Restricted" would be open sight only (HAMS)
"Primitive" is percussion style in the event future hunts are created for this type of weapon.

I completely understand the concerns about future technologies and getting them under control before it’s too late. I guess I’m just more for draw the line in the sand now, and focus on stopping new technologies that will have a greater impact. I just don’t feel the need to go backwards on this one. Thanks for your responses and insight and all you do to try and ensure the future of hunting ?

 

[joesikora]

Why on earth would you want to kill doe's if you are trying to grow the herd? Still not understanding the logic in that.

What I said there’s two ways to can handle the management of does one is don’t shoot them to grow the herd the other is shoot some of them and bring the big boys out of hiding to make them look harder to find the does which will give the hunters a better chance at a true Monster Muley. The goal is to grow the herd Correct and your not shooting does then why is the herd not growing? There is a report on IDNR that I seen about doe management yesterday that I could find again if I find it I’ll post it on here

 

[Vanilla]

Hey Whoopi, ole Joe wants to go kill does on the Henry’s to help out the bucks. You gonna tell him how you feel about that?

Maybe you agree? Get those big bucks out of hiding. Less competition for feed. Just imagine the inches they could pack on!

 

[JakeH]

What I said there’s two ways to can handle the management of does one is don’t shoot them to grow the herd the other is shoot some of them and bring the big boys out of hiding to make them look harder to find the does which will give the hunters a better chance at a true Monster Muley. The goal is to grow the herd Correct and your not shooting does then why is the herd not growing? There is a report on IDNR that I seen about doe management yesterday that I could find again if I find it I’ll post it on here

Got ya, well none of that is really going to apply in this situation. First off we don't even hunt the bucks during the rut so killing all the does wouldn't have the bucks looking any harder.

And the reason for the population decline has been addressed several times in some of the other few hundred posts that have been made over the last month since we started these discussions. Particularly with the henerys it's not about the hunting even if a few people thinks we are over hunting it.

I will tell you what I believe is the cause for the decline in population is mainly due to drought causing poor range conditions whitch leads to poor fawn recruitment. I made a very lengthy post with actual population numbers, fawn to doe ratio numbers, buck to doe ratio numbers, and the number of hunters showcasing all this in a previous post.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

I’ve kind of gravitated to the belief that at its foundation, our management model is off by a few percentage points in a few key places.

I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that we have a few more deer killed by cars then the model is taking into account, that range conditions take more than we thought, predators get a couple extra, etc etc.

The margin for error is probably thinner than we think and so when the scales tip, it’s more often than not, not in our or the deer’s favor.

I wonder how deer would do if we did a little bit better across all of those points, more road fencing, better range rehab, more aggressive predation control. Would it tip the scales back the other way?

The only thing broken about the henry’s is that a 160-180” mature buck isn’t good enough. Plenty of those crabbed up 25-28” bucks running around that mountain. Most complainers won’t touch them, and most hunters would jump at the chance to shoot one.

 

[DTO]

The wildlife board should manage the Deer heard and the amount of tags given, not the equipment that is being used. Bottom line is if they give 1000 Buck tags on any given unit they are allowing for 1000 deer to get killed.

 

[notdonhunting]

I’ve kind of gravitated to the belief that at its foundation, our management model is off by a few percentage points in a few key places.

I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that we have a few more deer killed by cars then the model is taking into account, that range conditions take more than we thought, predators get a couple extra, etc etc.

The margin for error is probably thinner than we think and so when the scales tip, it’s more often than not, not in our or the deer’s favor.

I wonder how deer would do if we did a little bit better across all of those points, more road fencing, better range rehab, more aggressive predation control. Would it tip the scales back the other way?

The only thing broken about the henry’s is that a 160-180” mature buck isn’t good enough. Plenty of those crabbed up 25-28” bucks running around that mountain. Most complainers won’t touch them, and most hunters would jump at the chance to shoot one.

I agree with you on all points, but the interesting thing is the Henry mountain deer herd is probably the lest effected herd in the state of Utah by roads, habitat lost and natural migration pattern. The only two issues that you can identify that would have severe effects is predation and poor quality of habitat.
I am still a big believer that the drought has had a more severe effect on are deer herds than most is willing to admit. You can go back to the mid 1980's and we have not had three consecutive years of above normal in moisture.
We had a small herd of deer in a dry small range of hills west of were I have lived my whole life. Back in the 1970 and 80's there was water in small pockets all over the range of hills and the deer herd was strong and good amount of mature bucks. After the 1980's the water slowly gone away (below moisture norms) then the deer was reduced to just a couple of water sources, it made it pretty easy hunting for bolth man and predators. That deer herd is all but gone.

 

[Vanilla]

Notdon, this is why I picked the Henry's for Whoopi to fix. It is the most isolated herd outside of Antelope Island, and even that has become less isolated with the lake dropping.

Well, and then he always belly-aches about the Henry's...so that too.

Fix the management on the most sought after unit and isolated herd in the state, Whoopi. Or quit yapping. Either way I'm fine with it.

 

[slamdunk]

Notdon, this is why I picked the Henry's for Whoopi to fix. It is the most isolated herd outside of Antelope Island, and even that has become less isolated with the lake dropping.

Well, and then he always belly-aches about the Henry's...so that too.

Fix the management on the most sought after unit and isolated herd in the state, Whoopi. Or quit yapping. Either way I'm fine with it.

Agreed.

It's a biological fact that does will naturally abort if the feed isn't nutritious enough to support a healthy fawn crop, could be milk production of the doe ?‍

 

[slamdunk]

I’ve kind of gravitated to the belief that at its foundation, our management model is off by a few percentage points in a few key places.

I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that we have a few more deer killed by cars then the model is taking into account, that range conditions take more than we thought, predators get a couple extra, etc etc.

The margin for error is probably thinner than we think and so when the scales tip, it’s more often than not, not in our or the deer’s favor.

I wonder how deer would do if we did a little bit better across all of those points, more road fencing, better range rehab, more aggressive predation control. Would it tip the scales back the other way?

Agreed.
We've been discussing these very things for the past 8 months in countless threads.

The only thing broken about the henry’s is that a 160-180” mature buck isn’t good enough. Plenty of those crabbed up 25-28” bucks running around that mountain. Most complainers won’t touch them, and most hunters would jump at the chance to shoot one.

Most complainers are "entitled opportunists".

25 LE points doesn't give anyone a right for a 200" Muley or a 400" bull.
You take what you've got in you hand and make the best of it.

 

[elkassassin]

Yup!

Either Way You're Fine With It Because You Don't Give a FF Rather Somebody With 27 Points Has Waited Patiently For Maybe A Chance at a NON-PISSCUTTER Type Of Buck!

Like I Said!

Keep POUNDIN Your PISSCUTTERS!

As Long As You're Happy,That's All That Matters!

Notdon, this is why I picked the Henry's for Whoopi to fix. It is the most isolated herd outside of Antelope Island, and even that has become less isolated with the lake dropping.

Well, and then he always belly-aches about the Henry's...so that too.

Fix the management on the most sought after unit and isolated herd in the state, Whoopi. Or quit yapping. Either way I'm fine with it.

 

[elkassassin]

One More Thing For The KING!

I've Said For 50+ F'N Years We Need To Increase Deer Numbers!

But You Won't Let It Sink In To Your THICK F'N Scull!

 

[Vanilla]

“Uncle!!!” -Bobcat Whoopi


Thanks for playing Whoop. I’m sure we’ll play these rounds again when you’ve forgotten how silly you looked in this thread and we can just do it all again.

 

[elkassassin]

hossy wants You To Prove To The Whole World That You Will Participate In The CUT YOUR TAG UP Contest!

You In?

Or Are You PUSSIN Out?

“Uncle!!!” -Bobcat Whoopi


Thanks for playing Whoop. I’m sure we’ll play these rounds again when you’ve forgotten how silly you looked in this thread and we can just do it all again.

 

[Vanilla]

hossy wants You To Prove To The Whole World That You Will Participate In The CUT YOUR TAG UP Contest!

You In?

Or Are You PUSSIN Out?

100% I will NOT be cutting up my tags. But then again, bossy doesn’t expect me to or want me to.

See, he posts that each year for the brainiacs that think that cutting tags will save our mule deer and come on this forum year after year belly aching when the DWR does not cut tags enough for them. He asks you whiny Whoopis to put your money where your mouth is and cut em up and post the video, just exposing exactly how hypocritical all those demanding and whining about tag cuts are.

Since I’ve never asked for a hunter to lose his chance to hunt mule deer for my benefit, hossy ain’t talking to me.

But I’m guessing you’ll chicken out on that challenge just like you did on this thread. You’re just all talk and full of it. All whine, no action. Can’t wait for our ride!

 

[JB1975]

Just checking in to make sure nothing is fixed yet. Carry on.

 

[elkassassin]

Yup!

You've PUSSED Out Already & Admitted It!

Proves You Don't Wanna Help Fix F'N SQUAT!

You Won't Give On Anything!

Like I Said!

Keep POUNDIN YOUR PISSCUTTERS!

Keep Doing Nothing!

That'll Fix It!

100% I will NOT be cutting up my tags. But then again, bossy doesn’t expect me to or want me to.

See, he posts that each year for the brainiacs that think that cutting tags will save our mule deer and come on this forum year after year belly aching when the DWR does not cut tags enough for them. He asks you whiny Whoopis to put your money where your mouth is and cut em up and post the video, just exposing exactly how hypocritical all those demanding and whining about tag cuts are.

Since I’ve never asked for a hunter to lose his chance to hunt mule deer for my benefit, hossy ain’t talking to me.

But I’m guessing you’ll chicken out on that challenge just like you did on this thread. You’re just all talk and full of it. All whine, no action. Can’t wait for our ride!

 

[Delta]

You all have to much time on your hands. The dark continent is history we should pay attention too. There is only one true safari left on the dark continent . The rest is cameras and high fences. ***** and moan, have basin circle rides. It means nothing. We are headed for camera safaris. The young ones that never witnessed the Pauns and Henries before and after the closers have no voice. The Pauns in the mid 80’s will never be repeated.

 

[joesikora]

What I said there’s two ways to can handle the management of does one is don’t shoot them to grow the herd the other is shoot some of them and bring the big boys out of hiding to make them look harder to find the does which will give the hunters a better chance at a true Monster Muley. The goal is to grow the herd Correct and your not shooting does then why is the herd not growing? There is a report on IDNR that I seen about doe management yesterday that I could find again if I find it I’ll post it on here

No one said anything about logic man Its politics THERES NO LOGIC IN POLITICS LOL!