BGF Wolf Lobbying Money in the News

I can tell that all the people making comments on the issue on facebook are as dumb as they come. We know there are no wolves in utah, and it is people like Ryan that is helping keep it that way. I would much rather spend tax money preventing them from being a part of utah. There are more wasteful tax dollars being spent that have bigger concerns. The sad thing is it was probably some of our own hunting people that pushed the issue and wanted to get it aired to the public on how horable this is, how it is unfair that someone is getting something they are not, how it is unfair that they sale off some deer or elk tag that should be my tag, my tax money, mine,mine,mine. Bunch of babies, really your complainers are cutting our own throats on this. It is always about what I didn't get.
 
Cantkillathing,

What a crock.

Replace BGF with PETA and your hair would be on fire over tax dollars being spent to support their agenda...and as a taxpayer, you'd be screaming for accountability. Accountability over where the tax money has gone and those that authorized the squandering of your tax dollars as well.

BGF and Benson are snake oil salesmen...best case.
 
Don't take this the wrong way. I often read this stuff and I can't help but wonder if the Mormon culture we all grew up in makes us so susceptable to this "don't ask, respect your leaders, respect authority" speach that comes from the like of BGF and their ilk.
The prophet comes to town, preaches salvation, demands strict adhereance, etc. If we are really serious about stopping wolves, and not just the usual window dressing "we hate washington" BS our leaders continually spew, why not invest the money with an already established group? The start up cost, the bribery(i mean contributions) that it takes to gain access ammounts to money we are pissing out the window. I am sure Ryan is a silver tongued devil who can chase an ambulance like no other, but there are groups who have already established themselves, are already set up, and already bribed washington.

Secondly, $fw has spewed this savior b.s. since the ealy 90's, yet they have zero verifiable success, yet year after year they issue the "the world is ending" press release, and we hand over millions in welfare. Is their some actual measure we can use to judge the effectiveness of our money? I for one am kind of tired of these blackholes we throw money into. If the only thing they have is "at least we are doing something", then I want to know what, because last I checked, there are wolves in utah, its spring, so there are now wolf pups in utah.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
An oz. of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Compare what Utah's spent to keep wolves out/under control to what Idaho, Montana, Wyoming has spent dealing with their wolf problems. Then tell me who's using tax dollar efficiently.

I remember reading a group of lectures, not long ago, here on MM, about sportsmen not getting into the fight until the wolf was out of the cage, in those States that now have wolves. Now we're going to get another lecture, from the same people, this time for doing precisely what they call sportsmen out for not doing.

What kind of logic is that?

DC
 
BUZZ H, your more concerned about this sliver of tax money that is doing something good vs. tax dollars to prevent kids from making money on a coolaide stand, on tax money being spent for abortions, on tax money being spent for LGBT, on tax money being spent for Obama to take vacations, etc..., this is better tax money spent vs. alot of other issues.

Hossblut you should take your mormon comments and keep them to yourself. Your anti mormon antics have nothing to do with hunting. Mormons are not this issue.
 
I just ate lunch with school kids, maybe the wasted tax money spent on trying to make these kids eat healthy, goodness those lunches are as nasty as they can get, no wonder my kids come home and eat everything and complain they are hungry..but I guess that was tax money well spent.
 
Let me just say that I don't know what the Fox 13 news report will show but I am glad that someone is looking at this use of taxpayer money. I am an avid hunter and sportsman, and I don't want to see wolves in Utah. However, I am also a taxpayer and I believe that our leaders should be accountable and transparent in the way they spend our tax dollars. My concerns are based on the way this went down and the way it is being executed.

Here is my issue. First, let's assume that it was the right decision for the State of Utah to hire a lobbyist to lobby on the wolf issue. Second, let's assume that BGF is best situated to provide those services. Assuming those things are true, then the State of Utah should appropriate the necessary funds in a public manner and sign a contract with BGF that: (1) spells out exactly what BGF will do in exchange for the money; (2) includes strict reporting requirements; and (3) includes auditing requirements so that the state can see how the money was spent.

Unfortunately, that has not occurred. The State of Utah has given BGF hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for the last several years without any real oversight. In fact, it was so bad in the early years that the State Auditor finally stepped in and issued a scathing report in 2013. http://le.utah.gov/audit/13_11rpt.pdf The problems identified in the auditor?s report are obvious issues that should have been apparent to the state and BGF from the beginning. Unfortunately, you cannot count on the state or BGF/SFW when it comes to transparency and accountability in dealing with public resources. I don't want to wander into an expo tag discussion but let's just say there is a pattern with these groups. For these reasons, I have no problem with the media or any other concerned parties shining a light on this process. If everything is on the up and up, then there is nothing to worry about. Let's tune in tonight and see what is reported.

Cantkillathing ? Pointing out other wastes of tax dollars is not really a defense or justification of this expenditure. And it certainly does not address the lack of accountabilty and transparency that has plagued this program from the beginning.

Hossblur ? I don't think that religion has anything to do with this issue. Not that it matters but I am active LDS and I have no problem asking questions or questioning authority. Let's stick to the pertinent issues.

-Hawkeye-
 
My point for pointing out other issues is you have put forth all this effort to try and tear apart something that is probably doing good, because of a grudge you may have, or again you have the poor me attitude in life. Have you taken this much effort and time to dig into all of the other pontentially wasted tax payers money lobbyist? Have you looked into the wolf loving lobbyist and how they get money and how it is used or not used? Have you taken a look into any other issue besides SFW or BGF? Because if not then you have some issues that you should deal with.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-15 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]Maybe those folks that are concerned about how money is spend, who spends it, what it's spend it for, need to get together an investigate the Mormon church. Why not look into the concerns some have with the Mormons?

What's the difference, where's the outrage, where's the call for the Mormon Church and "ALL THOSE THAT DRINK THEIR KOOL-AIDE" account-ability?

What's is transparent is the ambitions of those that never allow a single opportunity pass to hook any concern to their obsessive negative beliefs to the people they detest. Be it a conservation group, religion in general, a specific religion, a sect within a religion, a company, an industry, an occupation, etc.

What we do, speaks far louder than what we type!

DC
 
cantkillathing said: "My point for pointing out other issues is you have put forth all this effort to try and tear apart something that is probably doing good"

That's the problem, there is no accountability or proof that any "good" is being done. Give me a few hundred thousand of your personal dollars...I promise to do some good with it. I wont provide proof that I am, you just have to realize that I will "probably do good" with it. If that sounds dumb...it should, the same case with Benson and BGF.


"because of a grudge you may have, or again you have the poor me attitude in life."

Where are you coming up with this crap? Its not about poor anyone, again, as taxpayers, you, me and everyone else should be holding people accountable for how they spend OUR/YOUR tax money.

"Have you taken this much effort and time to dig into all of the other pontentially wasted tax payers money lobbyist?"

Yes.

"Have you looked into the wolf loving lobbyist and how they get money and how it is used or not used?"

Yes, and they aren't being funded via the Utah Legislature and Utah tax dollars. If you can prove otherwise, please do.

"Have you taken a look into any other issue besides SFW or BGF?"

Yes, multiple issues with GF agencies, Federal Land Management Agencies, politicians that are wanting to peddle our public land birthright, writing letters to the editor, phone calls with multiple politicians, etc...just this week. Thanks for asking.

"Because if not then you have some issues that you should deal with."

What issues have you taken on this week other than trying to defend BGF?
 
Please tell us one thing that SFW/BGF has done to keep wolves out of Utah. They haven't built a game proof fence at the border surrounding Utah and that's not even going to keep wolves from moving in. Other than illegally shooting every wolf that tries to enter the state, which BGF isn't doing, there is nothing that they are doing other than squandering money. First it was all these Expo tags and now it's the cry of the wolf that's putting thousand of dollars into at least two undeserving pockets that started these organizations. I can sure see why people jokingly call themselves Utards out in that state when they keep handing out what is now millions of dollars to people who have absolutely no reason to ask for it other than wanting to line their own pockets!
 
It's a thinly veiled discussion when some of you try to turn a wildlife topic into a religious argument.

Hoss, why don't you just admit you hate Mormons and "almost" everything about them? Then maybe we could make some progress.

Zeke
 
Deloss-

I thought you were smart enough to avoid the religion red herring. If you cannot see the difference between public tax dollars and private dollars voluntarily donated to private religious organization than I doubt that we can have an educated discussion on the topic.

Let's see if I can clear this up for you. Although we are required by law to pay taxes, we have a right as citizens to see how and where our government is spending our tax dollars. At end of the day, however, we still have to pay taxes even if we don't like how the government is spending our dollars.

Now let's look at the Mormon, Catholic or whatever church. We are not required to donate money or pay tithing to any church. If we do decide to contribute, we do it voluntarily. If we are unhappy with how those funds are being spent, we can ask questions, stop contributing or even leave our church.

You guys are comparing apples and oranges but don't let that stop you. Carry on!

-Hawkeye-
 
No one has ever accused me of being smart.

I take the bait every time, you?

I'm a SFW member and I support SFW leadership.

I'm a Republican, but not a happy one.

I'm an active Mormon and I support the leadership.

I'd say that's about as dumb as it comes, wouldn't you?

DC
 
I'll accuse you of being smart DC. One of the brighter members of the
MM clan.

That being said, I don't agree with much of your philosophy on politics
Or Mule Deer hunting in the state. Doesn't mean you lack intelligence,
Integrity or morals.

It's totally OK to disagree with someone without them being an idiot or a crook.

When it comes to politicians and their motivations and the other principals
Involved in all of this, I know better. I only need one screw job to lose trust.

One day it will happen to you and you'll change your tune.



"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
Lawyers hiring lawyers and threatening charges.

Nah... Nothing shady here, give us the money and
Move along.


"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
If everything is on the up and up then stand up and proclaim it to the world. I don't agree with some of the comments of Mike Styler but kudos to him for having the gumption to sit down and answer the tough questions.

-Hawkeye-
 
LMAO!!!!! Benson doesn't want to answer questions from reporters, sends his wife out to deal with them, then threatens to sue them for trespassing. Yep, that's $FW hierarchy for ya.
 
>Let me just say that I
>don't know what the Fox
>13 news report will show
>but I am glad that
>someone is looking at this
>use of taxpayer money.
>I am an avid hunter
>and sportsman, and I don't
>want to see wolves in
>Utah. However, I am
>also a taxpayer and I
>believe that our leaders should
>be accountable and transparent in
>the way they spend our
>tax dollars. My concerns
>are based on the way
>this went down and the
>way it is being executed.
>
>
>Here is my issue. First,
>let's assume that it was
>the right decision for the
>State of Utah to hire
>a lobbyist to lobby on
>the wolf issue. Second,
>let's assume that BGF is
>best situated to provide those
>services. Assuming those things
>are true, then the State
>of Utah should appropriate the
>necessary funds in a public
>manner and sign a contract
>with BGF that: (1) spells
>out exactly what BGF will
>do in exchange for the
>money; (2) includes strict reporting
>requirements; and (3) includes auditing
>requirements so that the state
>can see how the money
>was spent.
>
>Unfortunately, that has not occurred.
>The State of Utah has
>given BGF hundreds of thousands
>of dollars a year for
>the last several years without
>any real oversight. In
>fact, it was so bad
>in the early years that
>the State Auditor finally stepped
>in and issued a scathing
>report in 2013. http://le.utah.gov/audit/13_11rpt.pdf
> The problems identified in
>the auditor?s report are obvious
>issues that should have been
>apparent to the state and
>BGF from the beginning.
>Unfortunately, you cannot count on
>the state or BGF/SFW when
>it comes to transparency and
>accountability in dealing with public
>resources. I don't want
>to wander into an expo
>tag discussion but let's just
>say there is a pattern
>with these groups. For
>these reasons, I have no
>problem with the media or
>any other concerned parties shining
>a light on this process.
> If everything is on
>the up and up, then
>there is nothing to worry
>about. Let's tune in
>tonight and see what is
>reported.
>
>Cantkillathing ? Pointing out other wastes
>of tax dollars is not
>really a defense or justification
>of this expenditure. And
>it certainly does not address
>the lack of accountabilty and
>transparency that has plagued this
>program from the beginning.
>
>Hossblur ? I don't think that
>religion has anything to do
>with this issue. Not
>that it matters but I
>am active LDS and I
>have no problem asking questions
>or questioning authority. Let's
>stick to the pertinent issues.
>
>
>-Hawkeye-

First, until they decide otherwise, I am a Mormon. Second I said Mormon Culture, which is different than attacking a religion. Third, I agree, so I started a different post about this.
I know some guys saw the word Mormon and instantly had to go into defense mode and start reading into things, but it was just a question, and Hawkeye your a smart, well read guy, you know that what I asked has been discussed reguarding other scams and how often Utahns get drawn into them. And yes, there is a Mormon culure in Utah, and I didn't say it was a bad thing.



The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>It's a thinly veiled discussion when
>some of you try to
>turn a wildlife topic into
>a religious argument.
>
>Hoss, why don't you just admit
>you hate Mormons and "almost"
>everything about them? Then maybe
>we could make some progress.
>
>
>Zeke

Man you really gotta learn how to read. Not a religious topic, didn't even discuss a religion, I said CULTURE. So because you instantly glazed over lets discuss Mormon culture. Pro family, pro self sufficiency, pro neighbor, pro work ethic.
There, feel better.

Now that your feelings are better, answer the question. Why is it that $fw has been so successful at taking our money and producing nothing, and now BGF is following the same path, yet surrounding states have not drank the coolaid? Why are Utahns so easily sucked into this crap?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
kykiller, I would love to hunt elk in Kentucky some day but I also plan to continue to hunt elk in Utah and other western states.

In all seriousness, I am a lifelong sportsmen and I do not want to see wolves in Utah. However, that does not give our state officials and conservation groups a free pass to do whatever they want. There are still rules and laws that must be followed. At minimum, they have an obligation to be transparent and accountable for the public funds that they are charged with. I guess it all boils down to whether you believe that "the ends justify the means." I for one don't. Whether it is expo tag revenues or money for lobbying, follow the rules and do the right thing.

-Hawkeye-
 
How ironic, or maybe moronic, that at the end of the second video, BGF is given credit by the State official for the delisting of wolves.

News Flash -- BGF and SFW tried to kill the legislation that got the delisting. In spite of the efforts by BGF/SFW to kill the legislation, the delisting legislation still passed.

Utah got nothing to show for that big wad of money spent on wolves. Nothing, zilch, zippo. They did pay a lobbyist to go and try to stop the delisting legislation, so maybe some count that as a measurable benefit.

BGF was a detriment to the process that got the delisting mentioned by the State official. But, facts are not a currency that seems to matter much in the way political debts get paid.



"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Fin, that has been my point all along. If we are REALLY going to stop wolves, the ammount of money that BGF was given, in comparison to the ammount that is in Washington from the pro wolf crowd is miniscule. Serious people would have joined in with other serious people and made their money count. In setting up a lobbying office, the money was spent. This was about show for the Utah Republicans(who left conservitism decades ago) and a payoff for a local lawyer. The amazing thing is he got more. Makes me wonder who he is lobbying!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
hossblur,

I think you last post needs one little correction. I believe it should have said "The amazing thing will be the amount of money that will be given to him next year and the year after that and the year after that..."
 
Your right, although I bet there are built in increases year to year.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON May-02-15 AT 10:27AM (MST)[p]>Your right, although I bet there
>are built in increases year
>to year.
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"


hossblur, that's probably not a good 'signature phrase' for posts about Big Game Forever. :)

Grizzly
 
The guy is a crook. It looks like he spent the money on his big house and some luxury cars. At least give an interview and reassure the taxpayers he robbed.
 
Lobbying is no different than charities these days. Why do you think we all see those reports of charities where only $0.08 per every dollar donated actually makes it to the vulnerable population the charity proclaims to help..??

Charities and Lobbyists received a ton of money. They pay themselves high salaries to run the charity or lobbying group. That's how they work. I think the difference with lobbyists is that they can make a profit (correct me if I'm wrong there). But even non-profits, or not-for-profit charities end up paying out tons of money at the end of the year in order to comply with their tax requirements.

Is it really so surprising..??

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 

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