Big CA blacktail/muley cross

buckspotter7

Active Member
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608
Here's a big buck I saw up in Siskiyou County. It's amazing how far east you will see blacktail traits in these muley-sized bucks.

471baa6c2ceee40c.jpg
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
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608
I'm sure he is mostly muley, but that little strip of black down the center of his tail says he's got a little blacktail somewhere back in his family tree
 

BOHNTR

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4,078
I don't think so......he's a classic example of a subspecies of Rocky Mountain Mule Deer found in northern California. Biologist classify that particular deer as an alternate California mule deer. Awesome buck and good photo. Thanks for posting.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
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608
According to CA DFG Biologists the California Mule Deer occurs from Lake Tahoe Southward in the western Sierra Nevada. This buck is a cross between Columbian blacktail and Rocky Mountain Mule deer whose range overlaps in eastern Siskiyou County. Here is a standard Rocky Mountain Muley tail from the same area.

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BOHNTR

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Well, as a former game warden for CA, I'd still have to disagree. Here's a link for you to review and observe the different species found in CA. (see page 10 for tail illustrations) It still looks to me that the original photo is that of an alternate California mule deer??? This publication was written by head deer biologists for the DFG.

www.dfg.ca.gov/publications/docs/deerguide.pdf

BOHNTR )))---------->
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
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608
Respectfully, I don't have the credentials you have, but there is one problem with your arguement. If you judge strictly from the tail coloration, I can show you every variation of tail on that chart from bucks all from the same area of the state.
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
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608
My slow computer wouldn't pull up that link but my favorite source for this kind of thing is "A Sportsman's Guide to Improving Deer Habitat in California", written by the former DFG Deer Program Coordinator Ken Mayer and Thomas Kucera. Probably the same source of info for the link you gave. Here is another variation of tail coloration from within 5 miles of the other two photos.

471ec1682683bd6b.jpg
 

BOHNTR

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4,078
You are right there! :)

There are many areas throughout the state that have several of the different sub-species in the same general areas that overlap.....with a few exceptions (far north eastern portion, southern desert portion near the AZ border, and far northwestern portion of the state). However, when determining sub-species, tails, gland length, and sometimes antler configuration are the more accurate determination. Again, awesome photo, but it appears to me THAT particular buck is the CA mule deer species (alterante).

Is he in an area you can hunt?

BOHNTR )))---------->
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
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608
My biological sources show no history of CA mule deer or any hybrid with CA mule deer within 120 miles of where these photos were taken (Oregon Border). There are some sources that show CA Mule Deer hybrids in the Lassen Herd, but I would even disagree with any CA Mule Deer blood that far North. My limited lifetime worth of experience chasing deer in every inch of Northern CA tells me these deer are "benchlegs", hybrids, Muley/blacktail crossses. But myself and many knowledgable DFG biologists could be wrong. But like that monster buck from C-3, a nice buck is a nice buck no matter what color its tail is. Oh, and NO I couldn't hunt where these bucks live. They are safe from us hunters, unless they migrate really early.
 
B

buncoboy

Guest
buckspotter, I have spent time all around that border and have seen cross overs. I have to agree with Bohntr on this one. But who really cares, this stuff is just for fun anyways!
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
Messages
608
That is a great guide for tail variations, but it is out the window when you have the two extremes cross-breeding. The above pictures are from the southern Cacade-range in CA. You would not call Columbian Blacktail/Rocky Mt. Mule Deer crosses California Mule Deer any further North in the Cascades and they are very common along the Pacific Crest of the Cascade. I guess you could call them Oregon Mule Deer Alternates, Washington Mule Deer Alternates or just call them "Benchlegs", "Hybrids", or "Blacktail/Muley Crosses" like everyone else
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
Messages
608
This DFG map shows no California Mule Deer within approximately 120 miles of where the photos were taken at the Oregon border in Siskiyou County CA.

471fdc58167e6c5a.jpg
 

BOHNTR

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4,078
LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-07 AT 06:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-07 AT 06:02 PM (MST)

Okay spotter7, you're absolutely right on everything.....don't let biological research influence you in any way. :)

As for the "general distribution map" it's just that a general map.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
Messages
608
Hey BOHNTR, I thought we were just having a friendly debate on an issue that has been beaten to death already. I guess we didn't solve anything! By the way, from past posts looks like you've killed some dandy Califonia Mule Deer yourself. Take it easy! buckspotter7
 

BOHNTR

Moderator
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4,078
It's definitely a friendly debate amigo.....I'm just teasing ya bit. Yup I've been fortunate to take several of the sub-species in the Golden State......you're right too, many overlap throughout the state.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
D

dndracing35

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-07 AT 06:08PM (MST)[p]hey buck spotter i lived in siskiyou county for 21 years(grew up there) are those pics from the lava beds monument in say nov or dec? you can pm me if you dont want your spots shared. oh and by the way i agree with you. i killed some huge bucks (pushing 30") no where near those boundries
 

buckspotter7

Active Member
Messages
608
Hey dndracing35, you,re not too far off. As you probably know, if you've been there in Nov. or Dec., these spots are no secret!
 

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