Billings Newspaper article non resident tags

Rie bread

Active Member
Messages
370
Anyone see the Billings new paper article about the number non- resident license for sale?
Resident hunting licenses are only up 5% days the article since the 1974 cap.
non resident hunting license sales are up 60% since then and account for 17% of the permit quota.

maybe some of the terms I use here are of mismatched I don’t have a copy in front of me.

seems montana fws has done a good job circumnavigating the 1974 quota cap of 17,000.
 

HORNhunter7

Member
Messages
72
Yes, A friend of mine from Stevensville called yesterday and told me about the article. He says he's been overrun by non res. hunters the last couple years so this article really caught his eye. The cap was 17,000 for years and some /most of us residents were not aware that things have some how changed. I think my buddy said the article mentioned over 60,000 non res. tags of some form. Is that right? Maybe the 17,000 is just the number of non res. combo licenses. Lots of questions need to be asked at the FWP local meetings this winter
 

antlerradar

Active Member
Messages
704
thank you for the link to reread. what are your thoughts on this?

to me it seems that FWS needs to be held accountable but accountability in this day and age is gone with the dodo
Much of the fault lies with politicians. Some people just can not live with their buddy, relatives or clients having to go through the general draw and pay full price for a nonresident license.
 

Rie bread

Active Member
Messages
370
in 1974 did they have “doe” and “cow” license?
im curious what the language the 1974 bill uses in terms of “license”.
 

HORNhunter7

Member
Messages
72
I hope most people have figured out that a lot of these Non resident extra tags and what's going on in our hunting seasons today are indirectly driven by MOGA. It's all about money and catering to the outfitting business. There are several people in politically appointed positions that are having a lot of say in what our FWP is doing today. Resident hunters are the ones taking it in the shorts.
 

antlerradar

Active Member
Messages
704
I hope most people have figured out that a lot of these Non resident extra tags and what's going on in our hunting seasons today are indirectly driven by MOGA. It's all about money and catering to the outfitting business. There are several people in politically appointed positions that are having a lot of say in what our FWP is doing today. Resident hunters are the ones taking it in the shorts.
MOGA is certainly behind some of the extras, but there are plenty of others were MOGA members are not making much money.
The nonresident student, the coming home to hunt and the native Montana licenses have little benefit to MOGA. Most of the extra licenses are doe and cow tags. Maybe some of those tags are going to someone that has booked an outfitter hunt, but most are bought by someone going DYI.
On the other hand, it is likely that a big % of the landowner sponsor deer tag are pick up by someone hunting with an outfitter.
 

HORNhunter7

Member
Messages
72
MOGA is certainly behind some of the extras, but there are plenty of others were MOGA members are not making much money.
The nonresident student, the coming home to hunt and the native Montana licenses have little benefit to MOGA. Most of the extra licenses are doe and cow tags. Maybe some of those tags are going to someone that has booked an outfitter hunt, but most are bought by someone going DYI.
On the other hand, it is likely that a big % of the landowner sponsor deer tag are pick up by someone hunting with an outfitter.
I agree with most of what you said but last year FWP made it so non residents who would use an outfitter could buy 2 bonus points per year. I thought that was very unfair to all DIY out of Staters. They can only buy one. Also they now can only build up three points without losing them. Makes it tougher for Non residents to plan ahead and have a guaranteed hunt without hiring an outfitter.
Just my 2 cents!
 

antlerradar

Active Member
Messages
704
I agree with most of what you said but last year FWP made it so non residents who would use an outfitter could buy 2 bonus points per year. I thought that was very unfair to all DIY out of Staters. They can only buy one. Also they now can only build up three points without losing them. Makes it tougher for Non residents to plan ahead and have a guaranteed hunt without hiring an outfitter.
Just my 2 cents!
Absolutely unfair. FWP does not get the blame for this, you can blame the legislature and the Governor and MOGA. This didn't add to he number of non residents, but it sure as hell moved the ones using an outfitter to the front of the line.
 

antlerradar

Active Member
Messages
704
A hell of a lot of these tags are for deer B tags and Cow B Tags. I would have liked to see the author of the article break down the numbers, alas, it makes a good headline though...LOL.
It is true that the majority of the tags are doe and cow tags and that most are probably picked up by hunters that have a general license.
Doe and cow tags still add more non resident pressure, especially on public lands.
Not all non residents also have a buck or bull tag, many of them only have doe or cow tags.
Even the hunters with bull and buck tags add pressure, more shooting and more days in the field to fill the doe or cow tags.
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,918
It is true that the majority of the tags are doe and cow tags and that most are probably picked up by hunters that have a general license.
Doe and cow tags still add more non resident pressure, especially on public lands.
Not all non residents also have a buck or bull tag, many of them only have doe or cow tags.
Even the hunters with bull and buck tags add pressure, more shooting and more days in the field to fill the doe or cow tags.
DWB has a hunting "club" here in Montana. I doubt he gives a **** about any of this. mtmuley
 

DWBMontana

Active Member
Messages
102
It is true that the majority of the tags are doe and cow tags and that most are probably picked up by hunters that have a general license.
Doe and cow tags still add more non resident pressure, especially on public lands.
Not all non residents also have a buck or bull tag, many of them only have doe or cow tags.
Even the hunters with bull and buck tags add pressure, more shooting and more days in the field to fill the doe or cow tags.
I realize the doe B tags can be used on public ground; however, I believe most elk B tags are for private lands, perhaps not all, but the majority. I do lease ground here in Montana with family and friends, some folks spend money on pot at the local dispensary, or beer at the local bar, or play golf 2-3 times a week when they can, we pay a landowner for the privilege of hunting on their land, strange how many people find that appalling, as it has been happening here in Montana before I was born.
The author of the article could very well have taken more time to break down the figures. I am not in favor of more general tags for elk and, or deer. I also believe the outfitter PP are ridiculous.
 

HORNhunter7

Member
Messages
72
Absolutely unfair. FWP does not get the blame for this, you can blame the legislature and the Governor and MOGA. This didn't add to he number of non residents, but it sure as hell moved the ones using an outfitter to the front of the line.
I agree. I was wrong to blame FWP for this.......... HOWEVER they should be the ones who have the last say on Game Management and seasons based on the local Biologists assessments. I know they are kind of in a rock and a hard spot but I feel people working for the FWP need to have some backbone and stand up for things they disagree with. Otherwise their jobs pretty much have little purpose if government is going to be in charge of game management and hunting seasons.

I attended a local Game Dept. meeting last year and guess who did the most talking at the meeting. One of the governors appointed commissioners who just happened to be the past president of MOGA and owns and operates one of the larger outfitting businesses in the state. Several FWP employees were in attendance and they kept pretty quiet. It was kind of an odd almost uncomfortable meeting. It wasn't till I got home and looked up the guys name and found out who he was that I understood why.

So again you are right---- the majority of the blame is on the Gov., the legislature and MOGA. Lack of involvement by hunters has to share some of the blame also. Maybe if more of the DIY hunting public would get involved some of the FWP employees would in turn be more courageous.

Thanks for correcting me on this issue.
 

antlerradar

Active Member
Messages
704
I agree. I was wrong to blame FWP for this.......... HOWEVER they should be the ones who have the last say on Game Management and seasons based on the local Biologists assessments. I know they are kind of in a rock and a hard spot but I feel people working for the FWP need to have some backbone and stand up for things they disagree with. Otherwise their jobs pretty much have little purpose if government is going to be in charge of game management and hunting seasons.

I attended a local Game Dept. meeting last year and guess who did the most talking at the meeting. One of the governors appointed commissioners who just happened to be the past president of MOGA and owns and operates one of the larger outfitting businesses in the state. Several FWP employees were in attendance and they kept pretty quiet. It was kind of an odd almost uncomfortable meeting. It wasn't till I got home and looked up the guys name and found out who he was that I understood why.

So again you are right---- the majority of the blame is on the Gov., the legislature and MOGA. Lack of involvement by hunters has to share some of the blame also. Maybe if more of the DIY hunting public would get involved some of the FWP employees would in turn be more courageous.

Thanks for correcting me on this issue.
You are right, it would be nice if FWP would just say no to some of the craziness coming out of Helena.

When I wrote the absolutely unfair comment I was thinking mostly about giving outfitter clients extra points. After rereading my comment, I can see I was clear as mud. Not the first time and not going to be the last.
 

Hunting406

Member
Messages
5
Only thing we can do to get our state back on the right path is for all the residents to come together and to sue the state, for gross negligence and mismanagement of our game animals which are held in trust by the state for the residents! until that happens nothing will change and it will only get worse.
 

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