Blackhorn 209 wt vrs volume

fishnut

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I'm needing a little help on this subject. I just bought a CVA Paramount HTR in .40 cal and am working on getting the most accuracy possible. I keep hearing that volume to wt is at 100 gr measured should weigh in at about 70 gr. mine is coming in at 77.5 gr wt to 100 gr volume.
I know I need to shoot the gun and get the sweet spot for a load no matter what and I will but I'm just curious why it is 10% off what the web site says.
I'd like to have my speed loaders weighed out with my accuracy load but it all just seems off to me.
Thoughts?
 
For what it’s worth…I weigh out ten loads of a given volume charge, average the 10 and use the average for my weight. I have found significant variations between different lot numbers. This usually gets me the best consistency.
 
Here's the load data on the Blackhorn site-

I read all this and everything I read says the ratio should be about 70/100. mine is weighing in at 77.5/100 and 10% seams like a big difference from what it should be. I plan on using weight as my measurement to load up the speed loaders so it looks like about 105 gr by wt is recommended as max for the 225 gr power belt in the .40 cal.
 
If you want accuracy then weighing your charge is the only way to go with any powder.
Volume varies a lot especially with BH209
 
Have You Got another Powder Measure To Compare to the Measure You're Currently Using?

I Would find out what it likes & Refer To Post #2!

Average 10 by Volume & Weighing Them!

And As Long as You Stay with The Same Scale it Won't Matter!
 
Have You Got another Powder Measure To Compare to the Measure You're Currently Using?

I Would find out what it likes & Refer To Post #2!

Average 10 by Volume & Weighing Them!

And As Long as You Stay with The Same Scale it Won't Matter!
I’ve used 2 different measurements by volume and 2 different powder scales to check things because I thought something was off.
 
I've Heard Other Guys Claim the Same Thing You are!

I Think The Multiplier is .7!

BH 209 is HOT Shhitt!

If I Were You I'd Weigh 3 of Each Starting at 70 and 3 at 75 and so on till You Find what The Gun Likes!

Don't Over do it though!

We Have Toasted a Couple of Breech Plugs in Our Remington's with the BH 209!









I’ve used 2 different measurements by volume and 2 different powder scales to check things because I thought something was off.
 

Check out the first post.
 

Check out the first post.
“Eyeballing loads”?! Sheesh……:oops: Did they stop making powder measures or something?
 
I haven’t personally found it necessary to weigh my BH209 loads - but I have weighed my volume-measured loads and find them very consistent. I have an old school brass volume measure that has worked great for 30 years and a filling routine that involves settling and sweeping off the top of the charge. Very consistent. I can’t imagine any sort of consistency in dumping some powder in a load tube and eyeballing it (and they aren’t designed for that).

I’m not arguing that you shouldn’t weigh loads but finding exactly what load your rifle likes will be way more important. And…barrel fouling and seating pressure should receive equal consideration. It’s all about consistency.
 
BH 209 has VERY consistent granules. Unlike real black and other substitutes. I measure all my BH by volume only. I fill it just slightly over full, then tap the measure on a hard surface twice and then cut it off. Has worked well for me

I also thought eyeballing was kind of suspect, but he was getting values in line with what the OP is getting.
 
If you want exact loads, why wouldn't you weigh every load?

I weigh every load and put them in the little plastic containers.

Out to 100 yards it probably doesn't make much difference. But, you get out to 200, 300 and further it certainly does.
 
If you want exact loads, why wouldn't you weigh every load?

I weigh every load and put them in the little plastic containers.

Out to 100 yards it probably doesn't make much difference. But, you get out to 200, 300 and further it certainly does.
No reason not to I suppose. I don’t think it matters much to my accuracy, though, till perhaps 300-400 yards. As TX says BH209 is very consistent physically and if your volume measuring procedure is consistent, weighing it doesn’t really gain you much. With a portable digital scale I guess it really is just as convenient to weigh it.
 
No reason not to I suppose. I don’t think it matters much to my accuracy, though, till perhaps 300-400 yards. As TX says BH209 is very consistent physically and if your volume measuring procedure is consistent, weighing it doesn’t really gain you much. With a portable digital scale I guess it really is just as convenient to weigh it.
You will be suprised.

I went through all this with my CVA this last summer.
 
Since I only use open sights and have a max range of 150 yards (200 if things were ideal) I have never had a problem with consistency. But if I were shooting 200 yds plus, I might consider that.

Would create quite a bit more work for me because I like to shoot different size loads and different bullets at the range. Sometimes 35-40 or more shots in one range session. Would have to have a lot of different loads premeasured.☹️

Bottom line if you get enjoyment out of weighing the charges and/ or plan on shooting out to 400 yards, go for it. For me, and many others, it just makes more work.
 
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There is no way that statement is true as stated. 112 grains of weighed BH 209 would be about 130 greens by volume. No way that settles to 95. Please explain what you really mean.

I even have trouble believing that Blackhorn 209 could drop 17 grns even if both were measured by volume. Maybe other powders, but not 209
 
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I am telling you, not making it up, I will take some pictures, when BH 209 is in my pack for a few days hiking it settles, freaked me out.

I am not hunting until Feb with ML again. Either you believe me or not, BH 209 settles and if one is trying to be precise as possible, it should be weighed...

Measure 112 grains by weight and tap the vial many times, see how much it settles.
 
I am telling you, not making it up, I will take some pictures, when BH 209 is in my pack for a few days hiking it settles, freaked me out.

I am not hunting until Feb with ML again. Either you believe me or not, BH 209 settles and if one is trying to be precise as possible, it should be weighed...

Measure 112 grains by weight and tap the vial many times, see how much it settles.
Totally agree. When I pour weighed charges into powder tubes they some up significantly different depending on what funnel I’m using etc. I’d NEVER shoot a hot load of that stuff measured by volume.
 
Any powder will compact and settle when it is jostled continually. But the BH I have used would not settle 35 gr by volume unless the granules got crushed. The only way I can see that happening is if the tubes you are using are flexible and allow movement to crush the granules.

That said, the only thing that really tells us useful info is: when you measure it straight from the bottle at a set amount by volume, how far off is that charge when you weigh it. What it settles to in your pack isnt really relevant. I can’t comment on that since I have never weighed charges. I get 1&1/2- 2” groups at 100 yards with open sights using volume. I figure I can’t/don’t need to do any better than that with the distances I shoot.

Don’t get me wrong, if you shoot long distances or just enjoy “tinkering” to get the absolute best accuracy out of your gun, that is one less variable and is absolutely the most accurate way to get consistency.
 
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I’m with Tex on this one. Doesn’t really matter for the overwhelming majority of us who are shooting under 300 yards whether it’s weighed or measured by volume AS LONG AS YOU’RE CONSISTENT.

And a small amount of settling after the fact (when it’s in a speed loader) shouldn’t matter at all!

Trust me on this - Tex and I have a combined 70 years of experience muzzleloading! ?
 
I routinely get sub-MOA groups and I measure by volume. The only thing I weigh is smokeless for my Savage muzzleloader.
 
I guess I enjoy all things - especially the prep- I enjoy weighing out my powder-everyone has what works for them, I have found weighing s the most accurate and really doesn't take much longer...

I also found from LOT to LOT of BH209 there are variances in volume, but I am glad I have 4 pounds of same lot...I have also taken my BH209 jug to the range and in my vehicle on hunts- I am sure that settles it some.

I certainly weigh my smokeless powder when I shoot out of my ML 86.7 Benchmark!

Good luck everyone!
 
Ok, a hypothetical since I use the little tubes filled from a volumetric measure all at the same time (consistent) at the beginning of the season.

What if I carry a powderhorn in the field? Will the stuff in there settle and get denser? Or does it fluff back up when I pour it into the powder measure?
 
I have used BH 209 for around 10-12 years in my TC Encore. I have my speed loaders with my weighted load all set up whenever I go hunting and a few times after the season I would have a few extra that sat around and then shot them sometime months later.

In all the years I have used it, in whatever situation I have never had an issue with it settling and accuracy suffering. It has been the most consistent and accurate powder I have ever used, and I used many of the products out there prior to using BH 209.
 
If you want exact loads, why wouldn't you weigh every load?

I weigh every load and put them in the little plastic containers.

Out to 100 yards it probably doesn't make much difference. But, you get out to 200, 300 and further it certainly does.
I bought this gun to shoot 300 + yards. That is kinda the point of the .40 cal Parmount. It is reguarded as THE long range, off the shelf muzzle loader. Glassing it with a scope with good turits and getting accurate loads is what this gun is about. I do have a .54 cal hawkin if I'm looking for a bit more tradition. I will have every load weighed whenever I go out. I'm just a little concerned the company is saying 70/100 when that doesnt seem to be the case.
 
I know these tubes are not the most accurate. But this is weighed load of 100 Gr.

052BBC39-0FF3-4C79-9694-D98D340B43A8.jpeg
 
Different Lots of BH 209 can be Different Weight Versus Volume!

We've Pulled Tubes of BH 209 Out of Our Packs that looked Damn near as Fine As Flour!

Weigh it & Don't Worry about it!
 
So here is the issue, CVA says a max load for the Paramount is 150 gr by volume or 105 gr by wt. If a guy never weighed his load and just dumped in 150 gr by volume he would be shooting 115.5 gr by weight. I do know that CVA dropped the max load for the Parmount recently compared to what they orriginally said when the gun was first coming out.
I think at first they said 170 gr by volume.
that would weigh 130.9 gr by weight with what I'm getting.
That seems segnificant to me.
 
If you are "volume" measuring with those Blackhorn tubes, you will find the lines often don't come close. Use a good volume powder measure and/or weigh them out. Use those tubes to store your powder loads for the range/hunting.
 
Wow, I wouldn’t even ever attempt to shoot any muzzleloader with 150 gr (volume) of Blackhorn 209. My elk load is 95 grs and that stuff is too scarce and too expensive to use that much. Also, anything over 110 and I just can’t take the recoil.

That doesn’t even touch on the safety issue
 
If you are "volume" measuring with those Blackhorn tubes, you will find the lines often don't come close. Use a good volume powder measure and/or weigh them out. Use those tubes to store your powder loads for the range/hunting.
54A85C94-67B9-4171-97C8-C13DB7AD54C3.png

Very good point. No one should ever use “tubes” with lines to measure powder. I have always used something like this. Fill it slightly overfill, tap twice, and cut off flush. Then pour that into a tube. Doing that has been very consistent for me.
 
4DD9C146-58B8-4BC1-ABA8-6A24F93148C2.jpeg

This is the main one I’ve used for 30 years of muzzle loader shooting. Every load will be weighed out from now on
 
Yeah I wouldn’t run anything over 105 by weight for any off the shelf gun. There is such thing as too much BH209, it’s pretty hot stuff.
 
And your shoulder! Is that a Parker in a homemade speed loader?
Haha I have a brake that helps a ton. Don’t get me wrong she is still pretty crisp when you touch one off ? but yeah a 310gr Parker. Kinda a home made speed loader. My smith made them. They are pretty slick
 
Always use a scale, then put it into the tubes. If you go by volume you will have trouble with blackhorn 209
Going by volume has never given many of us any trouble…..

I guess we need to do a tutorial on measuring by volume as many of you guys don’t seem to know how to do it!
 
Going by volume has never given many of us any trouble…..

I guess we need to do a tutorial on measuring by volume as many of you guys don’t seem to know how to do it!
I guess it depends on if you want accuracy or convenience

If pretty close is good enough for you go by volume…..
 
Oh, ok, I misunderstood. I though you wrote, “if you go by volume you will have trouble with blackhorn 209.”
 
Oh, ok, I misunderstood. I though you wrote, “if you go by volume you will have trouble with blackhorn 209.”
You will….


Maybe I can sign up for your course of how measure by volume…. I’m sure the room will be packed!!!

I wonder why all the long range muzzle loader guys go by weight…

Hmmm…
Maybe your knowledge could translate to rifles also…


Just think of what the bench rest guys could do with a rifle if they took your volume class….
 
If You're in To Gnats Ass Shooting,Weigh Your Powder!

I Don't Have a Problem with using My Powder Measure for Volume!

However,I Don't Use Them Cheap Tubes To Measure With!

Weighing the Powder is The Best Weigh!:D

Them Big African Black Powder Guns Were Loaded with a Handful of Powder!
 
For you guys that make a muzzleloader a modern weapon and shoot 400 yards or more (something I will never do, I have centerfire rifles for that) be my guest and make extra work for yourselves.

For me, shooting with open sights and conicals only, and limiting my shots to 150-200 yards, why would I make more work for myself? Especially when I get 1&1/2” at 100 yards.

I think that’s the difference in mentality. I got bored with shooting animals at 400+ yards. I didn’t start muzzleloading to get into a primitive season and then turn my primitive weapon into a 400+ yard weapon. I got into it to enhance my hunting experience. I get to see so much more of the animal when I have to get closer. And it truly enhances my hunting experience. No, I am not successful as often as if I would have used a centerfire. But, I am very seldom unsatisfied with an “unsuccessful” Muzzy hunt. The only time that happens is when I am not a good enough hunter and do see or interact with game.

But “I don’t hunt to kill. I kill to have hunted.”
 
For you guys that make a muzzleloader a modern weapon and shoot 400 yards or more (something I will never do, I have centerfire rifles for that) be my guest and make extra work for yourselves.

For me, shooting with open sights and conicals only, and limiting my shots to 150-200 yards, why would I make more work for myself? Especially when I get 1&1/2” at 100 yards.

I think that’s the difference in mentality. I got bored with shooting animals at 400+ yards. I didn’t start muzzleloading to get into a primitive season and then turn my primitive weapon into a 400+ yard weapon. I got into it to enhance my hunting experience. I get to see so much more of the animal when I have to get closer. And it truly enhances my hunting experience. No, I am not successful as often as if I would have used a centerfire. But, I am very seldom unsatisfied with an “unsuccessful” Muzzy hunt. The only time that happens is when I am not a good enough hunter and do see or interact with game.

But “I don’t hunt to kill. I kill to have hunted.”
Tx, to each their own. Different strokes for different folks. There are many reasons to get into muzzleloading. Some people want to hunt with a primitive weapon, and face the challenges of more traditional muzzleloading. That is great and I applaud those who do so.

Then there is folks like me who have realized there are tags right and left to be had with black powder with some of the best season dates, that can be hunted every year. Vs waiting years for a rifle tag. It becomes an opportunity game for some.

I’m not into long range hunting. I’m in to building highly efficient weapons that can take advantage of any opportunity sent my way. Whether I get a 50yd shot or a 400yd shot.
 

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