Buffalo Lawsuit

H

HuntinCorn

Member
Messages
14
So, I heard About a lawsuit that was started by people that drew buffalo tags on the Bookcliffs Unit. Apparently before the hunt opened the buffalo were herded from the public land to private land and or Indian land. Supposedly the DWR herded them back to the public land and took them off the area. As a result nobody got a buffalo during the hunt. Has anyone heard bout this?
 
Surely Tough this Year!

But Everybody was Driving past the only Small Bunch We seen on that Side!

I've heard lots of Rumors!

Don't know how many of them are True?

I Did Hear there were 2 Guys that Filled Tags!













It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!




90087hankjr.jpg
 
I never heard any details other that what I posted. Hunter's that had tags are moving forward with their lawsuit, apparently. That's all I know.
 
I have a friend that took a nice bull out there this past fall. Didn't say anything about a lawsuit or not seeing or finding them.
 
I do not know about a lawsuit, but I know that they are going to have a wildlife board meeting and possibly extend there tag for one more season, only to the tag holders who did not harvest last season. If this happens I will be very upset. There can be alot of fingers pointed at what went wrong but in my opinion all of these things are risks we all take every time we draw a tag. I had the tag in 2016 and killed a great bull at the end of the season, I hunted for 18 days and loved every minute of it, my season lasted for two months, the current season last six months. I went into this hunt knowing it was once in a lifetime and I would do anything to accomplish my goal, I had to build a bridge that was used by alot other people this year and last year to get there buffalo. The weather was completely strange but the bioligist would tell everyone to wait for weather and wait for the last two weeks, this advice is usually good advice but do not rely on weather. I was out there on Saturday the 23 of December and did not see any other hunters and I did see a small herd of buffalo and there was snow on the ground. Bottom line this is a tough hunt and the only thing you should rely on is your own hard work and enjoy the hunt
 
Extending their tag for one more season comes off as an admission of guilt from the outside looking in.


#livelikezac
 
I know nothing about this but I know how the government works.

You were sold a tag to hunt bison. you got to hunt bison. you weren't guaranteed a bison. so pound sand.

Maybe not fair but that's how it is.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
>I do not know about a
>lawsuit, but I know that
>they are going to have
>a wildlife board meeting and
>possibly extend there tag for
>one more season, only to
>the tag holders who did
>not harvest last season. If
>this happens I will be
>very upset. There can be
>alot of fingers pointed at
>what went wrong but in
>my opinion all of these
>things are risks we all
>take every time we draw
>a tag. I had the
>tag in 2016 and killed
>a great bull at the
>end of the season, I
>hunted for 18 days and
>loved every minute of it,
>my season lasted for two
>months, the current season last
>six months. I went into
>this hunt knowing it was
>once in a lifetime and
>I would do anything to
>accomplish my goal, I had
>to build a bridge that
>was used by alot other
>people this year and last
>year to get there buffalo.
>The weather was completely strange
>but the bioligist would tell
>everyone to wait for weather
>and wait for the last
>two weeks, this advice is
>usually good advice but do
>not rely on weather. I
>was out there on Saturday
>the 23 of December and
>did not see any other
>hunters and I did see
>a small herd of buffalo
>and there was snow on
>the ground. Bottom line this
>is a tough hunt and
>the only thing you should
>rely on is your own
>hard work and enjoy the
>hunt

Extending their Tag is BS!

Waiting till the last two weeks of Season to Hunt is BS!

Relying on what Weather may or may not do...........!

Pushing Animals around with Aircraft is BS if it Happened!

If I Ever Draw a OIL or LE Tag & Don't Fill it I'm gonna Sue so I Can Hunt again the Following year!
 
I agree in principle, but with no snow and no migration and one of the only huntable herds in 1,000 square miles was driven from public/private to the reservation with helicopters during the season. If you spent 20 points might that change your mind on the issue?
 
>I agree in principle, but with
>no snow and no migration
>and one of the only
>huntable herds in 1,000 square
>miles was driven from public/private
>to the reservation with helicopters
>during the season. If you
>spent 20 points might that
>change your mind on the
>issue?

No!


Because I Know where them Bison come From!

And The Tribe said a couple years ago they were gonna do something about the UDWR Selling/Shooting Their Bison!

I've probably Got Enough Bison Points to Draw it!

But that Ain't Where I Applied for Earlier today!
 
Since it sounds like many harvested, they are wasting a lot of good money on attorneys in my opinion.

On the other hand maybe they can hire Bundy Anti Gov Consulting LLC and set up some protests
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
I hadn't heard anything about this controversy until this thread, but I have been looking into that unit for a couple years. Here is a link to the board meeting to discuss that hunt.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/board/2018-03_board_agenda.pdf

Bessy, there were about 45 permits issued there last year, a huge increase from prior years. The harvest numbers are not published yet, but many more than ?just a couple? of hunters filled their tags. I'm not sure what did or didn't happen, but the board meeting to discuss this issue should be revealing.
 
I called the state to get the success ratio and they told me it was 60% . I know of a lot of cows that were harvested out of desperation.I am not much of a public speaker but I think I will go to the meeting and voice my opinion. hunting is hard and not guaranteed but has a better chance when you have six months to hunt!
 
I am one of the people that had that tag this year. It was a tough hunt. We put 40-50 miles on horses. Another 15-20 hiking and a whole bunch on atv's. I was fortunate enough to harvest a bull on Dec. 1 so I didn't feel the pressure some of these hunters felt. I spent Thanksgiving in Range Creek and there were not that many Bison there. I saw 5 and because they had already let multiple hunters in there they were very spooky. Luckily and with some good help I found a small group in the little desert area. I have no problem with them extending the other hunters tags. I hope they get a chance to harvest a OIL Bison. Good luck to all of them! Hunters on this particular hunt are helping with a herd that is going to become a problem if it gets to big and expands it's range to much. Hopefully next year will bring better weather conditions and the DWR can find out how to mange this herd with the Indian reservation.
 
Wow, I've never even heard of anything like this happening before. The DWR has done transplants of mountain goats in the middle of the hunting season, and has not done this before with asking the WB to extend tags to the next year.

I wonder what this does for tag numbers in 2018?

Maybe I should try and capitalize on a bunch of people jumping out of this pool for fear of the same thing happening in 2018? Hmmmm....
 
I'm confused and just wanting to make sure I understand this. They gave out tags, for an area in which they wanted the buffalo killed, but didn't want buffalo in that area to begin with, so before the hunters could make a significant impact on them, gave tonto the authorization to push them back across the river into no mans land? Causing low harvest rates? And pissing off all the OIL tag holders?

On one hand, I don't feel sorry for the hunters. They drew a permit for the OPPORTUNITY to go buffalo hunting. Not a 100% guarantee kill. I've had tags where for one reason or another were almost impossible to hunt and find success on. I didn't get an extension or anything like that. How's that fair?

On the other hand, Someone needs to get our DNR back in control. They apparently don't answer to anyone and just do as they damn well please, which evidently impacts many people, directly and non directly. Just when you think there's no way they can possibly top their last stupid move they say "hold my beer and watch this #####..." and come up with something completely stupid and stun us all.

I think they should give the unsuccessful tag holders their points back, erase the waiting period and refund their money. And then write letters to the cattlemen and let them know they don't own the land, they share it with everyone else and that they are to deal with it. It's about time someone put those ungrateful greedy mooching DBs in their place. They should also write a second letter to the Indians and let them know the minute the bison leave the res and set foot in America again, they become an invasive species and can and will be, shot on site by anyone who sees them.
 
I understand the animals are owned by the state. Is that true of the reservations? Does the tribe own the animals if they are on the res?

Second. My son had a depredation elk tag this winter. Only good on the farms. No snow, the elk stayed off the farms. There was no refund, we knew going in it was for the farms.

Lastly. How did bison become an invasive species? And please don't say brucelosis, unless elk are invasive as well.

Sad deal, but 2 times in the last decade the blm has lost control of controlled burns are screwed hunts, buyer beware?



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
The problem is the Tribe has way to many Buffalo and they aren't going to do anything about it.So about 7 our 8 years ago when the snow got real deep they started migrating to Wild horse bench.And this is BLM on the east side of the Green river which I think was ok.But once they cross the river on the Nine mile side.This is when chit hits the fan.There is a ranching family that's had a winter permit on the BLM for 50 plus years and run 4 or 500 cows and they don't want the Buffalo.So They through a chit fit to the DWR.So they started this hunt because there not going to do jack chit to tribe and there try to make the rancher happy.So this chit show is only going to get worse.
 
I think there is a difference in a normal situation where someone does not successfully fill their tag, and a situation where the DWR specifically is responsible (by giving permission to do so) for the animals being pushed off the unit.

I don't know what the answer is, but the state obviously does feel there was something out of the ordinary and really wrong to even be discussing this.
 
This is a complicated one for sure. First, it sounds like ~60% of hunters filled their tags, and frankly I don't care if there are some who "settled" for a cow on their either sex tag---it isn't a bull only tag, and they took a legal animal. That is about the same success rate as the late season cow bison hunt on the Henry's, and a number of OIAL units for sheep, moose, or goats regularly have success rates at or below 60%.

Yeah, the hazing has a weird twist, but is it that much different than the aerial surveys and transplants of mountain goats or sheep that have occurred during and prior to other OIAL hunts (the +40 goats coming off the Beavers the week before my dad's hunt in 2013 comes to mind)? And did the Tribe herd EVERY single bison in the unit off or just the main concentration in the area of concern? With 45 tags, and ~27 of them filled, that leaves 18 tag holders with soup pots. Were there not even 18 bison left on the unit after the hazing? How far into the season did the hazing occur?

What if the main herd never migrated off the reservation this year? Success could have been much lower than 60% but that is hunting. The application guide warned that this was a migratory hunt and that the animals are not always in the unit. Additionally, ever since the complaints from 2013 beaver goat hunters the DWR has included a disclaimer and acknowledgment on the application that aerial surveys, transplants, and relocations may occur during a hunt.

My only real issue with the handling of this by the DWR was that they didn't call every tag holder or make some broad general announcement instead of calling select hunters in the order they were drawn. But even then, I don't think this justifies a second bite at the apple for the unsuccessful tag holders.

Utah's management of OIAL and some LE tags to have 100% success rate is flawed IMO. It is hunting, and success shouldn't be presumed. Utah could drastically reduce point creep by increasing the pressure on many of these tags, and allowing success rates to drop to the 30-50% range. The animals will become harder to hunt, you wouldn't have to wait 400 yrs to be guaranteed a tag. And hey, maybe with the extra funds generated from additional tag sales the DWR could send out a participation trophy to stir the pots of soup for the unsuccessful hunters.
 
load of garbage to give the hunters another tag. the book cliffs wildhorse bench did not have any buffalo herded off of it. the weather just did not get the buffalo to migrate in as usual. the buffalo moved were on nine mile.
 
I want another tag if I don't kill this year! What a croc of $hit it's called hunting not killing! To bad for the guys that till the end of the hunt waited. When I draw henries and don't kill one I'm calling a lawyer!

37205hornkiller.jpg
 
Does the action not establish precedent? Will the extension of season for 2017 hunters not negatively impact 2018 hunters? I applied for this unit based on the fact that I will be in top points group. Now, after application is completed, I am informed that there will be an additional 40% hunters? Tough choices ahead. Maybe best to turn in permit and wait until all of the smoke clears.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-18 AT 03:51PM (MST)[p]It's called hunting not killing for a reason so if you look back at the 2016 harvest survey it's not enter in yet they only had 17 tags in 2016 now 2017 they have 44 tags I was told only 2 got harvested out of 44 but that's just the rumor going around the basin.sh## if there going to give them another chance can I have my LE archery elk back I was out there for a month and I hunted my a## off and came home with nothing I wanted a big bull like bison big lol lifetime hunt or not you do it to one you do it for all.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-18 AT 03:54PM (MST)[p]I think the point that many are missing here is the DWR actively worked to and authorized to have the bison to be run off the unit. This is not just a situation where it was tough hunting conditions and some did not harvest. In fact, 60+ percent were successful in punching their tags, which is not terrible.

But I can see where the issues arise, especially on a once in a lifetime hunt, when the state itself prevents people from being able to be successful. This will not create a precedent going forward, unless the state runs the animals (or permits others to do it with their authority) off the unit again.

I have no idea what the right thing to do here is, and I don't have all the information. But the board meeting is coming up soon, and I really want to go back and listen to the audio to hear the facts and to know what they come up with.

For the poster that is worried about how this will impact the 2018 hunt, you are right to be worried. I'm interested to see the tag numbers for 2018, let alone what they do with the 2017 debacle.
 
First, my understanding is that there were still some other bison remaining within the unit boundaries after the hazing. Second, there was time during the hunt before the hazing occurred.

Ultimately, I don't see how this is substantially different than the DWR conducting captures and removing goats or sheep from a unit during the hunt. Does it suck? Yep. But, should that equate to getting a "twice" in a lifetime tag for the unsuccessful hunters? Nope, I just can't see how to get there no matter how it looks.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-18 AT 06:52PM (MST)[p]I don't know all the details but it sounds like bison were causing crop or property damage and they allowed a few hunters to harvest them in the unit. It sounds like this wasn't enough hunting pressure to move the bison off these properties. I would think that if they offered more hunters the opportunity to hunt the bison they would eventually have pressured them off the private land without having to resort to hazing them via aircraft? It may have been a win-win for everyone?
 
I don't see how any of this constitutes giving the remaining 15-18 people a second chance.

Simple fact of the matter, this is hunting. In the letter provided by the DWR they were contacting people to pressure the animals. It didn't work.

The opened this hunt as a migration hunt, so for these animals to be making it more of a permanent range than a migration range opens up a whole other can of worms.

I find it interesting that a bunch of the people that are for them having another tag, and against what the DWR had done in this situation. Find it perfectly acceptable for property owners and government agencies to protect land and livestock from say wolves or lions or bears, but not from herds of buffalo.

If the snow would have ever came those people would have still had a great hunt, they should not be awarded another tag do to lack of weather, or in some instances laziness.

Get over it and move on, if every time nature or poor decisions by the wonderful UDWR changed the outcome of a hunt, we would all be free lifetime license holders of almost ever tag in the state.
 
"Ultimately, I don't see how this is substantially different than the DWR conducting captures and removing goats or sheep from a unit during the hunt." -johnnycake

I agree with this. See post #19 above.

For those that are so opposed to this, I suggest you contact the Wildlife Board and not just post it here. This would be an unprecedented move. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all the issues involved with this one.
 
Not really. It was just a response to the other posts, that are comparing what happened here to a normal situation where someone doesn't tag out. Those are not apples to apples comparisons. I was simply pointing that out for the discussion.

I'm not sold extending the tag is the right thing. But I'm sure interested in hearing the actual facts around this, because I know I'd be livid if I drew this tag and the DWR herded all the animals off the unit before I could hunt them. And if you believe some posts on this thread and other places around the webs, only two people tagged out, which we now know isn't true. I realize you can't believe everything you read, so I'm trying to withhold full judgment until I have all the facts.
 
Where are the bison now with the snow we've received? Have they moved on to the unit finally?

If the DWR feels culpable for screwing up this hunt, how about this: Instead of extending tags to 2018 season and messing up draw odds, etc, why not open a special one-week season here right now in March and give people a shot?

If the facts come out that there were bison there and it was just hard...well, that's a different story entirely.
 
>Killed a cow elk in late
>fFebruary once, wont do it
>again.
>
>
>
>#livelikezac


?Killed a cow elk in late February once, won't do it again?

You mean (2) in late February???

I'm with you, I did the same thing in late January and will not do it again...
 
I want to know of all the hunters who did not harvest what was there shot opportunity, or how many animals did they see and pass up including cows? A couple of the hunters in the meeting mentioned how many days they hunted and I do not believe that 12 days is that long for a once in a lifetime hunt. I think giving them an extension is a mistake. Now every other hunter who did not succeed should threaten a lawsuit and get an extension. This is a bunch of bull.
 
After listening to the full details on the circumstances, I think it was a mistake to extend the season.
 
>I want to know of all
>the hunters who did not
>harvest what was there shot
>opportunity, or how many animals
>did they see and pass
>up including cows? A couple
>of the hunters in the
>meeting mentioned how many days
>they hunted and I do
>not believe that 12 days
>is that long for a
>once in a lifetime hunt.
>I think giving them an
>extension is a mistake.
>Now every other hunter who
>did not succeed should threaten
>a lawsuit and get an
>extension. This is a bunch
>of bull.

The guy that has eaten lots of tag soup before, who mentioned he hunted 12 days added at the end "over weekends". There is a HUGE difference in 12 days straight or even 2 different 6 day chunks versus getting out for a Saturday/Sunday dealio a few times.
 
I still wonder if there's a "Who's Who" on that list.

For some reason I doubt that's a bunch of Average Joe's getting this special treatment.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
I agree with Grizzly. This is very special treatment for somebody, and I doubt it was an "average" guy behind this.

I listened to the entire Board meeting. What a total cluster. First and foremost, the bison kill was low because of the warm weather, and the bison did not migrate like they historically do. That is the real crux of the matter, and it is part of hunting in every season.

The bison DID migrate in an unusual way, onto land that was inaccessible to normal hunters. Seven lucky hunters (names?), were escorted through the range creek study area and allowed to harvest bison. This was done for a select group of tag holders only, when in normal circumstances nobody would have had this access. After 7 bison were killed, the Ute tribe herded this specific group of bison back onto their reservation using helicopters. No herding was done in the traditional bison areas.

I'd love to know who the lucky seven were. The DWR explanation did not sound convincing. Those seven were given very special treatment. As a result, 18 unsuccessful hunters were given even more special treatment, by granting them an extension to hunt another year. Ridiculous.

According to the DWR, there were over 1400 hunters who applied for this same tag in 2018, and they will now be vying for between 2 and 4 total tags, when last year there were 44. And this board meeting was held one week AFTER the deadline to change your hunt application. Total BS.

The draw won't be held for another 6 weeks. They never should have extended the season, but at a minimum the applicants for this unit should be allowed to modify their apps.

There seems to be no end to the favoritism and corruption with in the UDWR.

Bill
 
Here's another Deal llama!

Initially I Heard the Success Rate was way Low!

Later I Heard it wasn't all that Bad!

Quite a few Guys that Hunted Hard got their Bison!

The Guys that waited till the Last week or two of Season got what they deserved!

They F-Off on a Once in a Lifetime Tag & Then Whine about it!

Then Threaten to Sue!

Then get to go Hunt again!
 
>I agree with Grizzly. This is
>very special treatment for somebody,
>and I doubt it was
>an "average" guy behind this.
>
>
>I listened to the entire Board
>meeting. What a total cluster.
>First and foremost, the bison
>kill was low because of
>the warm weather, and the
>bison did not migrate like
>they historically do. That is
>the real crux of the
>matter, and it is part
>of hunting in every season.
>
>
>The bison DID migrate in an
>unusual way, onto land that
>was inaccessible to normal hunters.
>Seven lucky hunters (names?), were
>escorted through the range creek
>study area and allowed to
>harvest bison. This was done
>for a select group of
>tag holders only, when in
>normal circumstances nobody would have
>had this access. After 7
>bison were killed, the Ute
>tribe herded this specific group
>of bison back onto their
>reservation using helicopters. No herding
>was done in the traditional
>bison areas.
>
>I'd love to know who the
>lucky seven were. The DWR
>explanation did not sound convincing.
>Those seven were given very
>special treatment. As a result,
>18 unsuccessful hunters were given
>even more special treatment, by
>granting them an extension to
>hunt another year. Ridiculous.
>
>According to the DWR, there were
>over 1400 hunters who applied
>for this same tag in
>2018, and they will now
>be vying for between 2
>and 4 total tags, when
>last year there were 44.
>And this board meeting was
>held one week AFTER the
>deadline to change your hunt
>application. Total BS.
>
>The draw won't be held for
>another 6 weeks. They never
>should have extended the season,
>but at a minimum the
>applicants for this unit should
>be allowed to modify their
>apps.
>
>There seems to be no end
>to the favoritism and corruption
>with in the UDWR.
>
>Bill

Ya, I bet it's ?Heather?
Lmao!!! You guys have to much time on your hands...
 
>
>Ya, I bet it's ?Heather?
>Lmao!!! You guys have to much
>time on your hands...


Yea it's better to just keep your mouth shut.
Do what you're told.
Don't ask questions.
and follow along with the rest of the sheep like Tikka.
 
>
>>
>>Ya, I bet it's ?Heather?
>>Lmao!!! You guys have to much
>>time on your hands...
>
>
>Yea it's better to just keep
>your mouth shut.
>Do what you're told.
>Don't ask questions.
>and follow along with the rest
>of the sheep like Tikka.
>

puff the chihuahua
always nipping at your heals... nothing more and nothing less...
 

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