Caliber Suggestions...

M

MichaelJ

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Hey, I'm looking at getting a new rifle after this years hunting. I'm wanting a caliber that I can go out to 800 yards, but be very comfortable with 500 yards. I'm looking at getting a new Savage with the new Accu-Trigger in either 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, 7mm, or 7mm WSM. I will be mostly hunting deer, but do want to spend quite some time on the bench. Might be hunting Elk, but nothing bigger. My big question is how much difference is there between the short action callibers, and the reg. calibers? Any other suggestions in this area would also be appreciated. I'm not in line for a custom, or a Weatherby, their too spendy and everybody I've talked to all say Savage's are extremely accurate, and extremely well priced. Thanks again.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
hopefully "ALL" your 500-800 yard shooting will be from the bench. I would get the 300 win mag. Tons and tons of loading experience out there for it. Any of them would surely work well though. I hear the same about savage accuracy.

JB
 
Go with the 7MM RUM. Ballistically, it's a great long distance caliber, considered the "ultimate beanfield rifle" in the south, and still enough to use on elk.
I have a Savage in .300 RUM and it flat-out shoots !!!!
Good luck w/ you choice. :D
 
.300 Remington Ultra Mag. I really doubt there is a better long range hunting rifle available when you take into consideration availability, affordability, accuracy and down range performance. Stay away from the 7 Ultra. Sounds good, but just a little overbore. Besides, with the .300, there is a ton more bullet choices in terms of weights and construction. A 7 Ultra cannot push a 200 gr bullet at 3200 fps. Pick whatever rifle chambered for it you want. I believe besides Remington, there are Savages and Winchesters chambered in .300 RUM. And more I am probably missing. But, just because you have one, does not mean 600 to 800 shots should be attempted. mtmuley
 
I know that 600-800 yard shots are usually unreasonable, and downright stupid, but I know that if it's the last day, and we haven't seen a single deer, and that once in a lifetime deer walks out, and the conditions are PERFECT (I really want to stress that word, PERFECT), I want to know that I can accurately judge where to hold, and KNOW where my bullet will fly (I got that analogy from another member on here, I think he knows who he is). I am thinking of going with the 300 WSM. I've kind of ruled out the 7MM's, as I just don't feel right about it. Call me crazy, but it's true. Thanks for all the suggestions, and info. Also, could someone please refer me to a sight where I can get a ballistic chart for these callibers? Thanks.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
MichaelJ;

I think you have already picked the caliber that will meet your expectations. The 300 WSM is just a shorter version of the 300 Win. Mag. The 300 WMag has already proven itself at Camp Perry and other long range matches out to 1000 yards.
The short version seems to be equal to it's big brother in velocity and accuracy from what I am hearing, and it does not beat your shoulder to death like the 300 RUM does.
I know that a few "Macho" hunters, who use the 300RUM out there, will not agree, but I do not see very many of them sitting at a bench and firing 20 or more shots and not coming away with enought of a flinch to open up their groups on the target. Trying to get them to admit it is another thing.
Get the 300 WSM and try using Sierra 165 gr.BT game king bullets and IMR 4350 powder for your deer load. You should get very good accuracy with this combo and the Sierra bullet is noted for it's fine accuracy and will drop a lung shot deer or lope everytime if you do your part.

RELH
 
RELH, thanks for the reassurance! It helps! I've been using the 165 Gr. Sierra Game Kings BT in my 30-06 for the last two years. Havent gotten to shoot anything with it yet, but am trying like hell! I don't have a reloader YET, but want to get one in the future. Thanks again.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
Since you dont reload yet, I would go with the .300 Win mag. Ammo is easy to come by and as already been stated, the .300 RUM doesnt deliver that much more of an edge.

Though I do love both calibers, I reload and would take the .300 RUM. I dont care for the belt on the Winnie, and the .300 RUM is easier to reload for, IMO.
 
FYI I've seen a couple of failures to open with the sierra 165 btsp bullet. Not saying its bad but its about the only one that I've seen that happen with so far. In fairness both were with a hot 06 load so the mags may cure that. But I"ve quit using it since then. Talk about frustrated looking for a good deer for 2 days and thinking it was lost. Luckily it was seen a week later and my buddies nephew shot it about 3 weeks later in the neck so we could see. Went THROUGH a rib on the way in and out. NO expansion at all. Makes you wonder when that round penetrated both lungs and the deer was none the worse for wear.

Jeff
 
Jeff;

I have never had that problem with the Sierra 165 gr. BT game king in my 300 mag. I have taken about 10 deer and antelope with that load and all were lung-heart shots. I hate to waiste meat. Every shot hit at lease one rib and the exit wound was a good 1 inch in dia. Now if the bullet were to pass between the ribs, that may be another story if the shot were at very long range.
Most of the complaints I have heard on the Sierra's have been about too much expansion and not going all the way though the animal, this may be true on shoulder shots where the bullet strikes heavy bone, but that has never been a problem for me as I go for the lung-heart area. If I need to break down heavy shoulder bones, or need deep pentration on a elk, I switch to Nosler 180 gr. partitions.
My most experience has been with the 25-06 and I now only use Sierra game kings in the 120 grain weight. With this rifle I have taken over 25 deer and antelope and I had a string of 22 shots, 22 animals down until I hit a deer farther back, hell in the gut, because I did not lead him enought as he was walking at a distance of 400 yards. The second shot drop him dead. The game kings performed perfectly from a distance of 70 yards to 500 yards. They also will shoot 3/8-1/2 inch 3 shot groups in my rifle using IMR-4350 powder.
The bottom line, any bullet may fail to do it's job once and awhile, and some will fail more then others.

RELH
 
i have used the sane Sierra Game kings on a elk from about 50 yards away in a .308 the weight was 165. it was a perfect shot(on the 3rd shot, i was 12) right behind the shoulder, blew a 3 inch whole in the cows heart. when we were skinning here that night, we found the slug just underneath the skin on the opposite side. high weight retention, dont know what it weighed but it was nice and performed perfectly
casey
 
I have to make this quick as I just returned home from an antelope hunt. Say what you may, but my shot on my goat was a lasered 636 yards. I missed the first shot. No time to laser the second, but I am thinking around 700. Dead antelope. I never did plan on a shot that far, but the rifle was up to the task. I am shooting faster and flatter than my buddy's .30-.378 Give the .300 Ultra a try. mtmuley
 
MTmuley, congrats on the speed goat! U gonna post the story up here?

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
ok,this is something i know a little about. a .270 is in a completely different class than a 7mm/.308. about 300 fps faster, much flatter shooting and harder hitting. if you reload you can really make some hot .270 stuff. the 7mm/.308 is always gonna be hamstrung with that short case. in fact, i've never figured out why they even made the 7mm/.308. with like bullet weights, the ol' .308 is noticeably quicker and flatter. the 7x57, .280 rem and the .284 win. walk off and leave it, if you're dead set on shooting something with a 7mm bullet. one thing to remember, 7mm is .284 diameter. a .270 is .277. only .007" difference. the thickness of a thin sheet of paper. if you use heavier bullets in a 7mm/08, it will have horrible balistics. and if you want to get real particular, 7mm is actually .273", so the .270 is closer to 7mm than the 7mm. confused yet? if you're worried about recoil, then like someone listed before, look real hard at the .243 or even the .257 roberts. my preference in these 2 is the .243. about a perfect match in bullet to cartridge. excellent balistics. no recoil. of all the 7mm cartidges that are out there, the .284 win looks to me to be the best. the first "short magnum". well, except for the stuff that newton came up with about 100 years ago. out performs the .280, with less powder and a shorter action. sort of an odd case, but it is a performer. a good friend just built 2 rifles called a 6.5/.284. shoots a .264 cal. bullet out of the .284 case. quite a neat cartridge for sure. good luck with whatever you choose.
 
Here's my story. Boring maybe, but it was fun. A friend of mine actually spotted my buck. He was bedded in a barley stubble field. For those unfamiliar, barley stubble is 8 to 9 inches tall. The adjacent fields are plowed. Strip farming is the method. I left the truck and started at a rock pile blocking the goats field of view. As I crawled on my belly, he got up. I probably crawled 400 yards or so. When I finally spotted him, I ranged him at 636 yards. I have never been an advocate of long range hunting, but I am confident with my rifle, and I ran out of cover. Besides, I was tired of crawling. My first shot was a miss, and I was ticked! He ran, but more perpendicular than away. I adjusted, and made a kill shot. I am thinking between 650 and 700. I used Stoney Point Steady Stix. Good investment. As I said, I do not usually take shots at that range, and will try not to again. But, if you desire a long range rifle, check out the .300 Ultra. I'll put a tape on my buck. I think he is close to 75 or 80 inches. Not a monster, but the experience was awesome. mtmuley
 
MtMuley;

Very good hunting story, thanks for telling it. I think a few of us were crawling with you while reading it. Good use of the ready stix for support to compersate for the long distance shot. Another trick I have used is a fanny pack that I carry most of the time. I normally hunt Wyoming and there is alot of sage brush that is about 10 inches high. I put the fanny pack on the top of the sage brush, use it as a front rest, and shoot from the prone position. It is rock steady and makes those long shots alot easier. About as good as shooting from a bench rest.

RELH
 
RELH

Yep I realize that every bullet can fail at some point. Lead alloys are supposed to be tested, Jackets are to be tested and annealed to certain specs. But when a bullet hits 2 ribs and fails to expand it scares me a bit.

That being said I've had the luxury of seeing around 300 deer shot a year for close to 5 years, not to mention seeing lots of deer shot on leases and out of state over the years.

The only bullet I"ve seen that always works, regardless the speed or distance(no further than 802 yards yet) is the Barnes X. Or the Same bullet by Win as the failsafe.

Now I get some arguments on the longrange forum on Xs. IE they don't open up at 1000 yards and beyond. I can't actually say there, though Barnes says down to 1000 fps.

For whatever its worth, when it counts I always shoot an X. They perform so well here, in Canada, in Africa etc.... And I've used them from 30-30 contenders up to 338 and 416 mags so far. Though they can be fussy to get to shoot good.

When it doesn't matter and to save dollars, I normally go green box, soft points. They generally do the trick.

Respectfully( a word that never gets used on many forums as most folks would just like the pissin contest to continue), Jeff
 
The .270 is a deer killing SOB. There simply is not a better deer round. Jach OcConner and Wyomingben can tell the tale. I would put my 270 against any comman round as far out as you want.

Just one mans opinion,
Wyomingben
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-04 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]THX RLH,

A .270, w/140gr Nosler Partions, a good quality scope and a set of bipods. Memorize the bullet drop, become a good range judge and know that you do have to lead running deer, sometimes a lot!

Wyomingben

PS: I do think a .270 is a little lite for elk, but there is no deer to big for a 270, even at super long ranges.

IMG007.jpg
 
That's a Helluva Deer! Those EyeGuards are awesome. I'll check out the 270. Thanks again.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
RLH,

Have you had any experience with the .25-06? I'm curious about it, and posted a question regarding the .25-06 vs. the .270 in this same forum. For me, recoil is a factor, because I want the gun for my boy to grow into as well. Since you mentioned the .243, and the .257, I thought I would inquire since I've been leaning towards that caliber. Thanks in advance for any input!

EG

campfire2.gif
"A man can be hard to find in the mountains, but you're welcome at my fire anytime."
 
EG

For starting guns you can go either or. Just load down some ammo back towards 257 Roberts area in the 25-06 and shoot till he is used to it. Muzzle break will do wonders for full power loads if needed.

I believe I've even seen some adds for reduced recoil deer rifle type rounds from the factory lately. Though I pay little attention to adds since I reload. But looking at that ammo is worth a try too.

Either round is good to 400 yards or so in my opinion. Further than that you should, again in my opinion, head up to a 30 cal mag or larger for retained energy and penetration as needed.

Jeff
 

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