Class Action Law Suit

NiceRack

Active Member
Messages
358
With the total failure of AZ F&G handling of the computerized 2021 draw it would seem that if the results are as screwed up as the draw process a class action law suit would be in order. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars are at stake. Dropped points, inability to update the portal and missing data are just a few of the problems with the draw. AZ has had problems in the past but this years draw is abysmal.
PB
 
Sue them for what?

My application went just fine.
Its great your application went fine as did mine. But its not all about you and me. Have you not read the many threads describing all the problems? Missing points, no points, can't update portal or data, dropped accounts, customer service phone personnel telling my son to "just get over it". Isn't that enough?
PB
 
If nothing else....the Governor of AZ should demand an audit of the entire application and draw process. The public that has spent money and deserves the right to know exactly what is going on. If AZ F&G contracts a third party IT system to conduct the application and draw it's AZ F&G that is responsible. The possible lack of vetting of third party subcontractors is totally on AZ F&G.
PB
 
With the total failure of AZ F&G handling of the computerized 2021 draw it would seem that if the results are as screwed up as the draw process a class action law suit would be in order. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars are at stake. Dropped points, inability to update the portal and missing data are just a few of the problems with the draw. AZ has had problems in the past but this years draw is abysmal.
PB
Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves? All I know is that the expected credit card charges have been delayed. It's time for everybody to relax.
 
Inane response..... If you have ever been cheated or harmed by another and a litigator helped you might think otherwise. I'm not terribly fond of attorneys either but they do have a time and place in our world.
PB
Inane? Thats just silly.

I should have prefaced my statement. we don't want to be unsportsman like.

It is unlawful to chase, herd, or harvest attorneys from a snow machine, helicopter, or aircraft.
 
With the total failure of AZ F&G handling of the computerized 2021 draw it would seem that if the results are as screwed up as the draw process a class action law suit would be in order. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars are at stake. Dropped points, inability to update the portal and missing data are just a few of the problems with the draw. AZ has had problems in the past but this years draw is abysmal.
PB
First World Problems. Millennial liberal type of thinking. If your first thought of the F&G messing the draw up is to sue them, you have problems, or you haven't been around long enough to see how things used to go.
 
On the bright side, it could be Utah where you have your apps in for 3 months, before the draw!!!
 
First World Problems. Millennial liberal type of thinking. If your first thought of the F&G messing the draw up is to sue them, you have problems, or you haven't been around long enough to see how things used to go.
It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?
PB
 
It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?
PB
If tags aren't mailed out by April 2nd the published timeline then you can start your bitching until then I see no problem with the draw yet. By the way out of the 4 family members I put in for hunts 2 of their portals say they didn't apply for this years draw and I'm still not worried about it and the reason being the portals dont have anything to do with the draw.
 
If tags aren't mailed out by April 2nd the published timeline then you can start your bitching until then I see no problem with the draw yet. By the way out of the 4 family members I put in for hunts 2 of their portals say they didn't apply for this years draw and I'm still not worried about it and the reason being the portals dont have anything to do with the draw.
Once again....it's not all about you or me! There are many on MM and several other hunting sites that have voiced their concerns over portal lockouts, missing points and other IT issues. These people have every right to be concerned.
PB
 
Once again....it's not all about you or me! There are many on MM and several other hunting sites that have voiced their concerns over portal lockouts, missing points and other IT issues. These people have every right to be concerned.
PB
Once again the portal and draw are 2 separate things so how do you know there is any issue at all with the draw
 
It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?
PB
I don’t need to fix the problem. Never said I was an expert at fixing anything. I’ll sit back and be patient. I don’t jump to cancel culture/sue them like you are first thing.
 
Based on the other thread, AZ G&F realizes they have a problem, and it appears they are taking the necessary steps to make sure the draw is completed correctly.

Beyond the Bonus round, it's basically a lottery, with bonus points increasing one's chances. But at the end of the day, a zero point applicant can draw a 20 point tag. If I'm lucky, a 7 point applicant will draw a 20 point tag!! :D :D
 
And exactly what magic pot of money do you think will pay for their defense against a frivolous lawsuit?

Thats right - from wildlife management funds. That’ll show those darn hunters:rolleyes:
 
This is how public lands gets sold or it go to **** when they take funds to pay off lawsuits or defending them in court. Elk Tanks will go dry over stuff like this. Best just email your state legislation and ask them to pass laws like Nevada for how the draw goes and when results have to be out by law. Suing AZGF over this will just hurt our public resources.
 
It certainly is easier applying for Utah with the typical cart for purchases and one cumulative payment for all applications.

As far as selecting hunts and specific GMU and hunt #, AZ is very simple.

I agree with those posting no need to panic or threatening to sue as the AZGFD is under no obligation to make any notification until the April deadline to mail out permits. I am sure many of us here can remember when you learned of your draw results from postcards that came in the mail. I remember peeking in my mailbox and praying not to see the too often pink cards stacked up in the box informing us we were UNSUCCESSFUL
 
Once again the portal and draw are 2 separate things so how do you know there is any issue at all with the draw
Since you asked, despite the postings where AZGFD says they could have the draw right now because their main system is correct, they haven't, or at least they haven't hit anyone's cards yet. That tells me there is an issue.

Now, 1) will they have they reopen the CC portal for updating prior to drawing? 2) Will they just have the draw and call people whose cards are declined because of the delay between the update closing and the charging of tags? 3) Will they just have the draw and if your card was cancelled it's, "so sad, too bad"?

If it's the last, then you have some folks who clearly have a b*tch because SOMEONE is going to be out a tag. Maybe a few dozen. Is that egregious enough for a class action lawsuit? Don't think so, but I also hope that option three is not what will transpire.
 
Since you asked, despite the postings where AZGFD says they could have the draw right now because their main system is correct, they haven't, or at least they haven't hit anyone's cards yet. That tells me there is an issue.

Now, 1) will they have they reopen the CC portal for updating prior to drawing? 2) Will they just have the draw and call people whose cards are declined because of the delay between the update closing and the charging of tags? 3) Will they just have the draw and if your card was cancelled it's, "so sad, too bad"?

If it's the last, then you have some folks who clearly have a b*tch because SOMEONE is going to be out a tag. Maybe a few dozen. Is that egregious enough for a class action lawsuit? Don't think so, but I also hope that option three is not what will transpire.
You show me where the AZGFD has ever posted anything that says update your credit card by 11:59PM because we will be charging credit cards the next business day. What if you updated your credit card at 11:58PM on the update day and your card had a fraud alert at 3:00AM before they charged cards would the AZGFD be responsible? If the AZGFD was smart they would eliminate the card update run the draw and issue tags to cards that don't decline them.
 
You show me where the AZGFD has ever posted anything that says update your credit card by 11:59PM because we will be charging credit cards the next business day. What if you updated your credit card at 11:58PM on the update day and your card had a fraud alert at 3:00AM before they charged cards would the AZGFD be responsible? If the AZGFD was smart they would eliminate the card update run the draw and issue tags to cards that don't decline them.
I won't because I didn't say that.

You said show me there is any evidence there's an issue with the draw. AZGFD have stated using their public account that the COULD have held the draw BUT they are trying to make sure it's right so they haven't done it yet. If that doesn't qualify as your definition of "issue" then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If there wasn't an "issue", we all know from past practice that the precedent is that the draw would have been completed a week ago.

The rest of it falls under consequences of the first. As I said, I doubt that's enough for anything to happen as far as any sort of legal recourse, but neither of us know because first, anyone can sue anyone, and second, no one knows what a jury might think.

None of that has anything to do with whether or not there is an issue with the draw. I think I'll stand with my original statement. There is an issue, because AZGFD said there is.
 
It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?
PB
It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?

It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?
PB
You forgot to include the right wing capital rioters. This could be early signs of dementia or alzheimer's. You really need to be focusing on your mental health in your "autumnal years"
 
I won't because I didn't say that.

You said show me there is any evidence there's an issue with the draw. AZGFD have stated using their public account that the COULD have held the draw BUT they are trying to make sure it's right so they haven't done it yet. If that doesn't qualify as your definition of "issue" then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If there wasn't an "issue", we all know from past practice that the precedent is that the draw would have been completed a week ago.

The rest of it falls under consequences of the first. As I said, I doubt that's enough for anything to happen as far as any sort of legal recourse, but neither of us know because first, anyone can sue anyone, and second, no one knows what a jury might think.

None of that has anything to do with whether or not there is an issue with the draw. I think I'll stand with my original statement. There is an issue, because AZGFD said there is.
Yep the AZGFD said they could hold the draw because nothing is wrong with the draw their problem is with their crap show portal system that they tried linking to their old portal system which has absolutely nothing to do with the draw.
 
And your description lays out exactly why there’s an issue starting with the word problem. Apparently, and for the final time AZFGD thinks it’s an issue because they themselves said they won’t hold the draw until they are sure it’s right. Thank you.

Good day!
 
Are you an attorney? That sounds like your opinion.
PB

...If AZ F&G contracts a third party IT system to conduct the application and draw it's AZ F&G that is responsible. The possible lack of vetting of third party subcontractors is totally on AZ F&G.



If you knew how the draw works, or had actually talked to the people who run said draw and supporting operations, you would know the portal is simply a portal. You can add an additional username or change an email when it's working properly, but that's it. You applied thru a different web address and your cc was processed by a 3rd party.
In addition to that, you would know AZ doesn't have an outside firm conducting their draw. If they did, we wouldn't be reading this ridiculous thread.
 
You don’t have to have a portal account to apply for the draw, so as stated before the draw & portal are separate. Nowhere does it say in the regs that cards are charged the day after update. Just because cards have been charged in the past the day after updates doesn’t mean they have to do all the time. People have grown to expect the charges the day after the update, but fish & game Is not obligated to do so. So for all the whiners crying about it, get over it!!! If fish & game miss the April 2nd deadline than you can ***** & so will I, until than relax. now you can let the bashing begin. If the Arizona draw process sucks so bad don’t apply here anymore!!
 
If your complaining about AZ then you have never applied for an elk tag in Wyoming..:oops: As long as I have gotten a did not draw notice I am still in the game!
 
Anyone that says there isn't an issue with the draw this year is kidding themselves. For about the last 5 years at least cards have been hit day after update deadline for every draw. Is that guaranteed? No, but there is a reason it's happened like clock work for the last 20 draws. You know the game and fish didn't suddenly decide this draw just to switch it up for the hell of it. Which says there is a problem of some type. As for the April 2nd deadline. Do you know what happens if they don't make that deadline? Not a thing. They just change it and say sorry. Maybe don't even get a sorry. When the government is the only one allowed to provide a service you follow their timeline and no matter how long it takes you just sit back and like it because there is nothing you can do.
 
It's certainly not millennial liberal thinking. Millennial liberals would riot and burn down the F&G office. And, since I am in my "autumnal years" I do not have any problems and have been around a quite long time. I have been hunting AZ as a NR since the early 1990's. Since you seem to be an expert on solving problems, what is your fix to this meltdown in the application/draw?
PB
I knew you had to be a non-res.....
It is not "F&G". It is AZGFD, or just GFD.
 
Residents need to demand AZGFD source out the draw process. I think every State agency should implement a blockchain technology to track our points/application so it has a digital history that can be viewed and verified. That wouldn’t solve this years “problem” but it should give everyone reassurance that all the years of accumulating points will not be lost to a glitch in the system.

I personally like Nevada’s draw but I also like Utah’s ability to add to cart and I think Wyoming does that too. One payment, one card, for all applicants. I had applied for all my kids 5 total and myself over a few days and ended up using 3 different cards because I used my Face ID which just populated depending on what device I was on. Arizona makes it hard and way to much time. I think it took well over an hour total to apply for all 6 of us. Main reason why I had just done it here and there when I had time.
 
Wyoming’s is super simple. Especially for group apps. Add desired apps to your cart, check out & get a group code.
Text group code to deadbeat buddies & they get to apply themselves & use their cards. Plus, with the group code they can’t screw anything up. Perfect. Good job Wyoming .
 
Talking about a lawsuit just because AZ is a couple weeks slower than they typically are is sad. They are obviously having problems that they are working on. I do wish I would have results before NM and Utah were due but I’ll survive. Worse case scenario is I get tags with overlapping season dates and that is a good problem to have. As long as the draw is done correctly, I’m can live with waiting a little longer. I have wasted a lot of time checking for results the last couple weeks. I should probably check my portal and credit card again. Today could be the day.
 
If tags aren't mailed out by April 2nd the published timeline then you can start your bitching until then I see no problem with the draw yet. By the way out of the 4 family members I put in for hunts 2 of their portals say they didn't apply for this years draw and I'm still not worried about it and the reason being the portals dont have anything to do with the draw.
Yes they do!
 
Am I the only one who thinks these states randomly draw all at the same time so they all get the app fees? Who would want to be last?
 
Draw results posted and leftover list is out and guess what still made their leftover application deadline, and they'll have tags mailed by April 2nd. Hope nobody waisted money on a lawyer retainer fee. :ROFLMAO:
 
Everyone thinks its great to have a lawyer, until the 1st bill arrives...
Everything worse worthwhile has a price. I’d pay any price just to be able to go out to my local state park and fish where my dad used to take me growing up. But I can’t even do that. The pH level isn’t right or the water is too low or some other BS story they come up with. What I want to do don’t know is where all the grants going who’s pockets are they line and I’m gonna follow the money to find out because this is totally unacceptable that our lands are being held from us and people are being paid for God knows what and they need to be held accountable those are taxpayers dollars these are our public recreations and we’re tired of people ripping us off and now they’re trying to steal our heritage in our recreation fights come in and guess who’s going to win the American people
 
And in reply to the question “Sue them for what?”
The public is highly educated here in 2022. Sue them for what is highly offensive to me. Clearly the question to ask is which offense to the American people should I sue them for?
 

Arizona Hunting Guides & Outfitters

SilverGrand Outfitters

Offering mule deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep, javelina, and turkey hunts in Nevada and Arizona.

Arizona Elk Outfitters

Offering the serious hunter a chance to hunt trophy animals in the great Southwest.

A3 Trophy Hunts

An Arizona Outfitter specializing in the harvest of World Class big game of all species.

Arizona Strip Guides

Highly experienced and highly dedicated team of hardworking professional Arizona Strip mule deer guides.

Urge 2 Hunt

THE premier hunts in Arizona for trophy elk, mule deer, couse deer and javelina.

Shadow Valley Outfitters

AZ Strip and Kaibab mule deer, big bulls during the rut, spot-n-stalk pronghorn and coues deer hunts.

Back
Top Bottom