co mule deer 3rd or 4th season??

The Frugal Hunter · Dec 10, 2020

with the 2021 draws nearby i'm sure we are all thinking about whats to come.. If you follow colorado you know in 2021 the season dates will be later then they have ever been for rifle hunters. I'm sitting on a few points and cant decide between a 3rd season tag or a 4th season tag.. I have about an 80 percent chance at both. it is 2 different units obviously and i know both equally as well. The question is do i go with the later, shorter 4th season tag or the two day longer earlier 3rd season? looking for some input or theories toward either way.. Ive found high quality deer in both and will be doing my best to shoot a trophy.. what are some thoughts? ( were talking a chance at deer 180 plus)

tkjwonta · Dec 10, 2020

I expect the 3rd season tags to have more point creep in 2021 compared to 4th season. You may need more points than typically required for both tags, but the 3rd season should be pretty ideal timing next year. I would say it depends on how many days you have to hunt. If you only have 4-5 days, the 4th season might be the way to go with fewer hunters in the field. But if you can hunt the full 8 days of 3rd season, I might lean that route as it gives you more opportunities to hit an ideal weather day that really gets the bucks up on their feet.

Founder · Dec 11, 2020

4th season hunting is nice because there are so few other hunters (elk hunters) afield than during 3rd season hunts. The upside to the 3rd season, more bucks will still be alive. Depending on the unit and where you're hunting in the unit, a 3rd season can be just as good as a 4th. IMO
I personally would hunt the unit that I think holds more "taker bucks".

Jerry · Dec 11, 2020

Founder said:
4th season hunting is nice because there are so few other hunters (elk hunters) afield than during 3rd season hunts. The upside to the 3rd season, more bucks will still be alive. Depending on the unit and where you're hunting in the unit, a 3rd season can be just as good as a 4th. IMO
I personally would hunt the unit that I think holds more "taker bucks".

Brian- I'm thinking about trying for a 4 th season unit 67 deer tag in Colorado in '21 with 12 points , which is likely a long shot at best. Been waiting a long time to try so a good guide might be worth the $ to give me an edge since I've never hunted 67.
How would you go about finding that guide, say out of Gunnison ? I've used guides before with spotty results, sometimes great guides & some total disasters too. Especially in NM. Since this is a one & done hunt forever & Im 73, it needs to be done right. I'd appreciate your ideas. I've never hunted 67 before, always done DIY in other units. I tried 551 the entire season in '05 before the big 90% winter kill & ate tag soup, never saw a big buck, was looking for a 190 BC or bigger. Been just getting points since that disaster. Thanks very much Brian !
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado

Founder · Dec 11, 2020

Jerry said:
Brian- I'm thinking about trying for a 4 th season unit 67 deer tag in Colorado in '21 with 12 points , which is likely a long shot at best. Been waiting a long time to try so a good guide might be worth the $ to give me an edge since I've never hunted 67.
How would you go about finding that guide, say out of Gunnison ? I've used guides before with spotty results, sometimes great guides & some total disasters too. Especially in NM. Since this is a one & done hunt forever & Im 73, it needs to be done right. I'd appreciate your ideas. I've never hunted 67 before, always done DIY in other units. I tried 551 the entire season in '05 before the big 90% winter kill & ate tag soup, never saw a big buck, was looking for a 190 BC or bigger. Been just getting points since that disaster. Thanks very much Brian !
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado

I don't know of any guides down there. I don't think any of the advertisers here on the site guide in that unit.
You'd probably just have to start the googling, calling, talking with references, etc.

Jerry · Dec 11, 2020

Founder said:
I don't know of any guides down there. I don't think any of the advertisers here on the site guide in that unit.
You'd probably just have to start the googling, calling, talking with references, etc.

Thanks Brian ! I'll keep searching ! Jerry Gold

PLK · Dec 11, 2020

Jerry,
You should contact Steve Guerierri at Lazy F Bar Outfitters in Gunniso, CO. I’m not sure if he guides in 67 but I know he guides in 54, 55 and 66. He could provide you with the information you need to help you use your points wisely. He has a great staff of proven guides that know the country well. Check him out on Facebook and Instagram.

Paul

SureShot · Dec 11, 2020

If there's any significant snowfall in October/early November next year, the 4th season guys are going to be picking at the crumbs left over from the feast. And, the first course of the feast was actually this year...

Soccerdude · Dec 11, 2020

I hope point creep doesn't ruin my 2021 plans. Haha. The 2021 dates have been on lots of guys radar for 2-3 years.

Jerry · Dec 11, 2020

PLK said:
Jerry,
You should contact Steve Guerierri at Lazy F Bar Outfitters in Gunniso, CO. I’m not sure if he guides in 67 but I know he guides in 54, 55 and 66. He could provide you with the information you need to help you use your points wisely. He has a great staff of proven guides that know the country well. Check him out on Facebook and Instagram.

Paul

Paul- Thanks very much for the contact information on Steve! Jerry Gold in Windsor, Co ???

tracker12 · Dec 11, 2020

How was the 3rd season in CO this year?

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Dec 11, 2020

excellent

Archbull · Dec 11, 2020

Better hurry because in a few years there will be nothing but two point bucks running around. Can someone tell me why the DOW pushed the seasons back so far?

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Dec 11, 2020

keep laughing jasonb22

The Frugal Hunter · Dec 11, 2020

Archbull said:
Better hurry because in a few years there will be nothing but two point bucks running around. Can someone tell me why the DOW pushed the seasons back so far?

I wish I had a good answer to that question... the days of quality deer here in co are numbered. Just trying to have my chance before it’s gone

The Frugal Hunter · Dec 11, 2020

Founder said:
4th season hunting is nice because there are so few other hunters (elk hunters) afield than during 3rd season hunts. The upside to the 3rd season, more bucks will still be alive. Depending on the unit and where you're hunting in the unit, a 3rd season can be just as good as a 4th. IMO
I personally would hunt the unit that I think holds more "taker bucks".

Well honestly I believe both hold equal amount.. one area is mostly oak brush and large timber but lots of access.. the other is cedar sage country with access but can be limited at times... very torn as both have ups and downs

elks96 · Dec 14, 2020

Archbull said:
Better hurry because in a few years there will be nothing but two point bucks running around. Can someone tell me why the DOW pushed the seasons back so far?

Here is how it all went down. The deer got hit with a double whammy. First of all people are idiots. In the SW a small but vocal group of hunters complained that having the season too close together was negatively impacting the hunting. They claimed that everyone including the wildlife would be much better off if we gave longer breaks between seasons (all sorts of silly reasons, one claiming that with a couple extra days the elk would leave the private land and go back up into the forest etc.) So that group got a survey out with CPW. The survey sucked it was a horrible survey and many groups let them know, MDF, CBA, etc. I and several others were extremely vocal about the survey.

The survey asked the question would you support longer breaks between seasons. The vast majority of the small sample supported longer breaks. However the question never presented the trade offs. Trades offs were 1, cutting days from 3rd season (something that many had fought to add just a few years back) and the other trade off was hunting deer into late November. Neither of those issues were presented. Only a simple question stating that everyone wanted longer breaks...

The thing that really sucked was seeing the double whammy heading to our deer. Something that would have been very important to most making the decision on the 5 year structure would have been other management strategies that they failed to discus. The primary being the increase in deer tags to combat CWD. So basically not only did we move season back so far, we also had a decision that in order to combat CWD we must kill all the mature bucks. End result, in the NW corners 3rd and 4th season tags numbers are up as much as 300% in some cases. Then with 3 times as many tags than normal we now have hunting all the way up to November.

Absolutely disgusting how these decisions were made and piggy backed on each other but neither one considered the impact of the other. Hell we could have killed most of the mature bucks off with just the later seasons. But that was not good enough we needed to increase all tags and pressure just to be sure.

It will be a decade before it gets better. At least a decade.

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Dec 14, 2020

It will never get better unfortunately. Your forgetting that by 2023 wolves will be reintroduced by then i bet we have lost lion hunting. Throw in an above average winter or two and we all be fighting over forkys

txhunter58 · Dec 14, 2020

Choosing the 4th season may depend on your family plans for thanksgiving next year. Since we didn’t have one this year.

Twoshooter · Dec 15, 2020

Thanksgiving might mess up your 4th season. If there is any weather at all early I think 3rd will be better and longer season. If your your 3rd season unit does not have a 4th I would go that direction. Units that dont have a 4th season will have a great 3rd in 2021. (essentialy first year they have ever had a 4th)

270Whatelse · Dec 15, 2020

3rd longer season

Jerry · Jan 29, 2021

tracker12 said:
How was the 3rd season in CO this year?

Sorry for the delayed response ! I was sick in the hospital for a week after 1/1- just now feeling life again !
The Hunt 66 3 rd season did not go well . Saw quite a few so so bucks in Indian Creek area & surrounding areas. Bucks just starting to show rut interest , but never saw a shooter buck ! Very disappointing overall. 4 th season should have been much better- I think ?. 12 points wasted ?. Never fired a shot. Total bum hunt. Back to
the drawing board ! Jerry Gold -Windsor, Co

Bookhead · Jan 29, 2021

Point creep i don't believe will be bad at all. If eveyone was holding their points for this year last years odds would have been better then normal on account of it. And also allot more turned back tags

Country · Jan 29, 2021

Jerry, contact Cadwell outfitters. Great family and can probably get you in the right direction on 67.

Jerry · Jan 29, 2021

Country said:
Jerry, contact Cadwell outfitters. Great family and can probably get you in the right direction on 67.

Thanks so much for the information about Caldwell Outfitters !! Very appreciated !
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado ??

Horniac · Jan 29, 2021

One other consideration possibly to factor into your decision would be seasonal NF road closures the 2nd or 3rd week of November if applicable to your unit which could possibly limit access and concentrate hunters. Not sure if they change year to year with the calendar or fall on a set date every year. Might be a good idea to consult the MVUM for your area of choice to see if road closures need to be factored into your decision making process when deciding between 3rd and 4th season...

Horniac

Jerry · Jan 29, 2021

Horniac said:
One other consideration possibly to factor into your decision would be seasonal NF road closures the 2nd or 3rd week of November if applicable to your unit which could possibly limit access and concentrate hunters. Not sure if they change year to year with the calendar or fall on a set date every year. Might be a good idea to consult the MVUM for your area of choice to see if road closures need to be factored into your decision making process when deciding between 3rd and 4th season...

Horniac

Thanks so much ! Great point. I’ll check it out. Jerry Gold ?

Ultimag · Jan 30, 2021

elks96 said:
Here is how it all went down. The deer got hit with a double whammy. First of all people are idiots. In the SW a small but vocal group of hunters complained that having the season too close together was negatively impacting the hunting. They claimed that everyone including the wildlife would be much better off if we gave longer breaks between seasons (all sorts of silly reasons, one claiming that with a couple extra days the elk would leave the private land and go back up into the forest etc.) So that group got a survey out with CPW. The survey sucked it was a horrible survey and many groups let them know, MDF, CBA, etc. I and several others were extremely vocal about the survey.

The survey asked the question would you support longer breaks between seasons. The vast majority of the small sample supported longer breaks. However the question never presented the trade offs. Trades offs were 1, cutting days from 3rd season (something that many had fought to add just a few years back) and the other trade off was hunting deer into late November. Neither of those issues were presented. Only a simple question stating that everyone wanted longer breaks...

The thing that really sucked was seeing the double whammy heading to our deer. Something that would have been very important to most making the decision on the 5 year structure would have been other management strategies that they failed to discus. The primary being the increase in deer tags to combat CWD. So basically not only did we move season back so far, we also had a decision that in order to combat CWD we must kill all the mature bucks. End result, in the NW corners 3rd and 4th season tags numbers are up as much as 300% in some cases. Then with 3 times as many tags than normal we now have hunting all the way up to November.

Absolutely disgusting how these decisions were made and piggy backed on each other but neither one considered the impact of the other. Hell we could have killed most of the mature bucks off with just the later seasons. But that was not good enough we needed to increase all tags and pressure just to be sure.

It will be a decade before it gets better. At least a decade.

Sounds like Colorado took a page from Montana f &g. Playbook.

jims · Jan 30, 2021

There's no doubt in my mind that point creep is going to go through the roof this year with the later season dates. The word is also out that the quantity of quality of bucks will likely plummet in Central and Western Colo with the increase in tags and potentially higher harvest of bucks. If you are like me and hundreds...if not thousands of other monster muley guys you've been saving your precious Colo pts waiting for the later season dates that were advertised several years ago

Your guess is as good as anyone else which season will have better hunting conditions. I've been monitoring mule deer game cameras all winter for work. The deer in the winter range I've been monitoring have been significantly more active when it's snowy and cold out. Stretches of warm weather the deer are not active except early and late in the day. My guess would be that deer would use less energy if browsing during warmer days but that hasn't been the case in the winter range I've been monitoring. Activity obviously changes with hunting pressure and possibly from 1 winter range to the next.

With that said, I've been in units during the 3rd season when it snowed and was miserable and seen bucks every day. This was followed by 4th season with 60 degrees, crunchy snow, full moon. Deer weren't active and it was nearly impossible to stalk them in crunchy snow. In contrast, if there is deep snow and the all the stars align the 4th season can be literally amazing!

You are pretty much throwing the dice in the air when trying to guess which season will be best. As mentioned in several posts above, there are fewer and fewer bucks available as the seasons progress. However, old age class bucks have a way of making it through hunting seasons! There is often a little less elk hunting pressure the 4th season which is a definite advantage if hunting an OTC elk unit or area that has a lot of elk hunting pressure. Mature bucks may spend a little more time with does and come out of seclusion a little more during the 4th season. The 4th has a couple less days available to hunt. Perfect conditions during the 4th season doesn't happen that many years but if you happen to draw a tag during one of those years you are in for a royal treat!

Are you ready to toss the dice in the air?

goldhunter · Jan 30, 2021

and they still have to be on public during fourth, some units that may not be the case

The Frugal Hunter · Feb 4, 2021

I appreciate all the response and quality input... I have decided to try my luck at the third season tag. After a bunch of thought my reasons for going third are. 1. larger percentage of lower elevation ground I'm able to hunt. 2. Terrain in this unit makes it much easier to glass lots of country. 3. The extra two days may be what is needed to get it done. 4. I believe this unit MAY hold a larger number of bigger deer