Cold bore Flyers

[BLOK2003]

Was wondering if anybody had suggestions on a new rifle I’ve been developing loads for. First shot ( cold bore ) doesn’t matter if barrel is clean or fouled shoots 2-3 inches off. Then following 4 shots are touching ?? I thought the first shot may have been operator error but has consistently done this several times. Any suggestions ?

 

[RELH]

Are you leaving the bore fouled from the previous shooting. If not give it a try.
RELH

 

[BLOK2003]

Yes I’m leaving bore fouled from previous shooting session, and still first shot is a flyer with #2,3,4,5, touching ? Seems like it likes the barrel warmed up. Newer barrel with prob 100 rounds down it. It’s a model 70 7mm Rem Mag.

 

[Blank]

Is the barrel bedded, or floated? I would shoot it a half dozen days in a row, leaving it fouled, and make the testing as identical as possible. It should demonstrate repeatability, and if so, you know where to look. If it erratic and the first shot is randomly off several inches, I would look to an action bedding problem or something loose somewhere.

 

[BLOK2003]

Yeah I think I’ll have the action bedded especially around the recoil lug. Will also make sure barrel is free floated.

 

[Cahunter805]

I agree with above. Get it pillar bedded and retest.

 

[Zeke]

All the above is excellent advice.
Also, it could be some stress in the barrel so the barrel actually moves when it gets warm. Not super uncommon but damn near impossible to fix.
Zeke

 

[RELH]

That barrel has good chance of being very accurate based on shots 2-5 and the group. If it is not glass bedded, have it bedded and pillars installed if it has a wood stock to prevent compression.
Since your first shot is low, and the rest are higher, you may have the barrel touching near the forearm. I would have it free floated when you have it glass bedded. If free floating does not work, have about 8 pounds of contact at the fore end. Most rifles will do best free floated, but I have ran in to several rifles that needed fore end contact to shoot best.
With that group of the last 4 rounds, is a great indication that you have a rifle that can be very accurate and it will be worth spending the money to have a good riflesmith glass bed it for you.
RELH

 

[BLOK2003]

Thanks for the advice, i dropped it off at the gunsmith yesterday. He’s pretty good, he has rebarreled some rifles for me that will absolutely shoot. I’m hoping with a bedding job this one will be a keeper ?

 

[BLOK2003]

When I was doing load development with this gun I did have some other loads, different grain of bullet that were not as accurate but didn’t seem to have as bad of a first shot flyer. Do you think tweaking powder increments slightly with this accurate load would help with flyer or no ? The grouping is pretty good with this load after the first shot so I haven’t done that yet. It’s a 1-9 1/2 twist barrel and shooting 154 & 162 grain bullets. With the 162 shooting more accurate. Thx

 

[RELH]

Right now stick with the load that gave the best group and re-try that load when you get the rifle back from the gunsmith. Then go from there if that load is not as good as you would like it to be.

RELH

 

[Cahunter805]

When I was doing load development with this gun I did have some other loads, different grain of bullet that were not as accurate but didn’t seem to have as bad of a first shot flyer. Do you think tweaking powder increments slightly with this accurate load would help with flyer or no ? The grouping is pretty good with this load after the first shot so I haven’t done that yet. It’s a 1-9 1/2 twist barrel and shooting 154 & 162 grain bullets. With the 162 shooting more accurate. Thx

If the flyer was more random then I would agree with tweaking the powder charge and tuning the node more. Since it’s always the first shot it’s more than likely bedding. Like stated above get it back and go retest the load and go from there. You may need to fine tune the load anyway if your going from barrel touching the channel to free floated.
Have you been using a chronograph for load development? What’s your ES and SD like on this load?

 

[BLOK2003]

Yeah I’ve been using chronograph. 5 shot strings.
ES= 32
SD=16

 

[Cahunter805]

Yeah I’ve been using chronograph. 5 shot strings.
ES= 32
SD=16

Not a bad start at all. Once you get the rifle back let us know how it groups with your current load.

 

[BLOK2003]

Thanks. Will let you know.

 

[Chesterwyo]

You can also cull the brass that causes the flyers. See if that makes a difference.

 

[BLOK2003]

You can also cull the brass that causes the flyers. See if that makes a difference.

Good idea !

 

[Zeke]

You can also cull the brass that causes the flyers. See if that makes a difference.

Ya, it could be the brass but not very probable since, according to the OP, it’s always a first cold bore shot that is way out of the group. It really doesn’t sound like a bedding issue to me either. It’ll be interesting to see if the OP can get it to settle down.
With all I do to prep my brass nowadays, it’s a wonder that most of my rifles shot so well years ago! Haha

Zeke

 

[Wyosam]

Ya, it could be the brass but not very probable since, according to the OP, it’s always a first cold bore shot that is way out of the group. It really doesn’t sound like a bedding issue to me either. It’ll be interesting to see if the OP can get it to settle down.
With all I do to prep my brass nowadays, it’s a wonder that most of my rifles shot so well years ago! Haha

Zeke

Same. Sadly, I’m pretty sure my most concentric and consistent loads are with cheap Lee dies, on brass that gets the least prep, with thrown charges that I rarely weigh.

 

[257Tony]

Have you looked into hbn coating? Supposed to help with cold bore weld.

 

[BLOK2003]

Came to the conclusion the barrel had some stress movement, after bedding / free floating didn’t correct problem. Re- barrel job underway now.

 

[Cahunter805]

What barrel and cartridge did you go with?

 

[BLOK2003]

Kreiger barrel, stayed with 7MM Rem Mag. I’m already set up to reload for that cartridge and as hard as it is to get reloading components these days i figured it would be best to stay with it.

 

[Paradox]

Wow! I hope that works for you. That seems like a radical step, thinking you must really like that gun to rebarrel. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Bluehair]

Cold Bore Flyers would be a good band name.

 

[elkchaserreturns]

Hello Bluehair! Glad someone finally saw the potential in this thread title.

 

[willfrye027]

I had a very similar issue with my current barrel. Douglass 1:7 25-06. It would walk shots downward as the barrel warmed up with cold bore about 1.5in high. Three in quick succession would be 1/2in or better sometimes. Tried a bunch of things, made sure bedding was good, etc. decided to order a new prefit barrel and keep shooting it in the meantime..

at some point a few hundred rounds later it just started shooting better and I have no idea why. Planning to burn it out quickly either way because it kinda lost my trust early on! So I totally understand wanting to start over with a new barrel.

 

[elkchaserreturns]

Cold Bore Flyers would be a good band name.

I was thinking maybe "Cold Bore Flyers" would be a good name for a women's roller derby team? Or a women's hockey team?