Colorado Draw Working Group Recommendations

84hunterRN

84hunterRN

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These are great recommendations that the Draw Working Group have come up with that will be presented at the July 18-19 Commission meeting. I agree with everything, except the 75/25 resident to nonresident quota. I'm no longer a Colorado resident, but believe the quota should be at least 80/20 resident to nonresident, if not more, especially in the "trophy/high quality" units. Something has to be done to combat "point creep" and the bots that now dominate the reissue license list.

 
Part of me truly wonders how colorado would fair if it transitioned over to a 100% resident. No 90/10, just straight resident only. Now ik that would never happen ever, but makes ya wonder what things would be like.
 
I like the recommendations. I think it will eliminate most of the good tags that make it to the secondary draw and reissue. It will give those tags to next in line people that opt in and will burn their points. It won't fix point creep but it will help a ton. It will also eliminate some of the complaints about the whole free for all on reissue stuff. There will just not be that many good tags on the list anymore until 2 weeks before the hunt, and most tags have already been turned in 4 weeks before the hunt.
 
MountainSqwabler said:
Part of me truly wonders how colorado would fair if it transitioned over to a 100% resident. No 90/10, just straight resident only. Now ik that would never happen ever, but makes ya wonder what things would be like.
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If that were ever to happen Colorado would vote to completely ban hunting within 10 years, there is not enough support from residents alone to fight off the antis. Nonresidents are essential for hunting in colorado to remain.
 
We
MountainSqwabler said:
Part of me truly wonders how colorado would fair if it transitioned over to a 100% resident. No 90/10, just straight resident only. Now ik that would never happen ever, but makes ya wonder what things would be like.
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and we could make the non residents still pay 800 plus for an elk tag to fund the fish and game, but not let them hunt.
 
IMHO they are not taking the consequences far enough on the turning in of the tags. They should be torching everyone's points who turns in a tag that was drawn in the primary choice 1-4 points draw.

They should take the persons points and give a refund to the person who turned in the tag, and taking the persons points who is getting the tag from the auto-issue process. I guess I am ok with them giving refunds, but they should not be giving points back.

Basically torching 2 peoples points for the price of one tag. THAT would 100% help to slow point creep down.
 
84hunterRN said:
These are great recommendations that the Draw Working Group have come up with that will be presented at the July 18-19 Commission meeting. I agree with everything, except the 75/25 resident to nonresident quota. I'm no longer a Colorado resident, but believe the quota should be at least 80/20 resident to nonresident, if not more, especially in the "trophy/high quality" units. Something has to be done to combat "point creep" and the bots that now dominate the reissue license list.

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The trophy units are 80/20 and are staying that way. Sheep goat moose are 90/10.
 
LIK2HNT said:
It would be nice to know how far down the alternate list you are after the draw. That way you can plan other hunts, watch emails closely, and op out latter if need be.
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You should be able to get pretty close by just looking at the draw reports, but I agree. If there are 10 of you sitting at 10 points and the tags drew out at 11 it would be nice to know what "random" place you are in at the 10-point level.
 
Mallardsx2 said:
You should be able to get pretty close by just looking at the draw reports, but I agree. If there are 10 of you sitting at 10 points and the tags drew out at 11 it would be nice to know what "random" place you are in at the 10-point level.
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I almost missed getting a Mtn. Goat tag in 2021. Just came back from camping and luckily looked at my emails. If I would have waited till the next day (or was still camping) I would have missed out.
 
I personally have no problem with people turning tags back in, now that they go to the next in line, better than having them go to waste. Yes it would be nice to know where your spot is in line. I would like it to be at least 80/20 for all Deer, elk and antelope tags.
I guess I am in the minority about point creep, it is your choice to hunt or hold out for that dream unit. Although it has affected some lower point units that is just supply and demand.
 
Try 80-20 or 90-10 and watch all the businesses in Colorado dry up and wash away, residents don’t stay in the motels or eat at the restaurants or frequent the grocery stores and so on and ask the outfitters how they feel about it. NR hunting brings in the money period!!!! I believe there should be some way for residents to hunt their state every year yes, but you can’t take money from everyone to do it.
 
oljc said:
Try 80-20 or 90-10 and watch all the businesses in Colorado dry up and wash away, residents don’t stay in the motels or eat at the restaurants or frequent the grocery stores and so on and ask the outfitters how they feel about it. NR hunting brings in the money period!!!! I believe there should be some way for residents to hunt their state every year yes, but you can’t take money from everyone to do it.
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It sure is nice when I hunt that I get to tell someone I am a resident so everything for me is free! I spend money in Colorado all year not just for a weekend. If you watch any of the meetings you will see that most of this is supported by outfitters. This way they can charge their "Guests" more because they are now a more limited tag. But I am sure you are right and Colorado will be broke and closed down without you.
 
We own property out there and get vouchers every year and use them as intended to hunt our property and not try and sell them to make a profit soI will always be able to go, I was simply making a point but don’t get me wrong I believe residents should be able hunt your own state every year
👍👍👍
 
oljc said:
We own property out there and get vouchers every year and use them as intended to hunt our property and not try and sell them to make a profit soI will always be able to go, I was simply making a point but don’t get me wrong I believe residents should be able hunt your own state every year
👍👍👍
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You could make that happen, by donating a tag to my go hunting foundation, so I may hunt every year lol
 
oljc said:
Try 80-20 or 90-10 and watch all the businesses in Colorado dry up and wash away, residents don’t stay in the motels or eat at the restaurants or frequent the grocery stores and so on and ask the outfitters how they feel about it. NR hunting brings in the money period!!!! I believe there should be some way for residents to hunt their state every year yes, but you can’t take money from everyone to do it.
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Wrong skiing and tourism brings in way more than hunting it's not even close
 
They will do what it takes to keep the money flowing.
Getting 75%/25% for choices 1 to 4 is a pretty good start for residents though.
 
My only change would be point averaging. I believe a lot of high point holders would pick lesser units and take friends or family hunting. It would get some high point holders out of the pool. As long as any tag turn back includes all tags in the group I do not believe the system would be abused
 
desperatehills said:
My only change would be point averaging. I believe a lot of high point holders would pick lesser units and take friends or family hunting. It would get some high point holders out of the pool. As long as any tag turn back includes all tags in the group I do not believe the system would be abused
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Why is it important to get high point holders out of the game? They can burn their points anytime they want. It's their choice to become high point holders, no one is forcing them to not use their points.
 
Twoshooter said:
I like the recommendations. I think it will eliminate most of the good tags that make it to the secondary draw and reissue. It will give those tags to next in line people that opt in and will burn their points. It won't fix point creep but it will help a ton. It will also eliminate some of the complaints about the whole free for all on reissue stuff. There will just not be that many good tags on the list anymore until 2 weeks before the hunt, and most tags have already been turned in 4 weeks before the hunt.
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Most good tags have been drying up since more units were hitting the 5 point resident threshold due to creep anyway.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Why is it important to get high point holders out of the game? They can burn their points anytime they want. It's their choice to become high point holders, no one is forcing them to not use their points.
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It just gives guys with higher point totals a option. I personally have 16 points. I would quit chasing the better units and go with a buddy in a 8 point unit. It is something most states point average and CO does not
 
desperatehills said:
My only change would be point averaging. I believe a lot of high point holders would pick lesser units and take friends or family hunting. It would get some high point holders out of the pool. As long as any tag turn back includes all tags in the group I do not believe the system would be abused
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I think it’d make it a hell of a lot worse. I personally would buy points for family members that don’t even hunt just so I could piggyback off them if I could point average.
 
RyanTM said:
I think it’d make it a hell of a lot worse. I personally would buy points for family members that don’t even hunt just so I could piggyback off them if I could point average.
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Yup. You mean just like every NR is already doing in Wyoming, pushing point creep through the freaking roof?

A 3-point unit I hunted in 2018 is now a 9-point unit because of that crap and to be honest, it's hardly worth 3 points.
 
desperatehills said:
My only change would be point averaging. I believe a lot of high point holders would pick lesser units and take friends or family hunting. It would get some high point holders out of the pool. As long as any tag turn back includes all tags in the group I do not believe the system would be abused
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I hope they never consider point averaging. Point creep in the lower point units would jump tremendously. The guys made a decision to build all those points, now they can make the decision to use them or keep chasing their dream hunt.
 
desperatehills said:
It just gives guys with higher point totals a option. I personally have 16 points. I would quit chasing the better units and go with a buddy in a 8 point unit. It is something most states point average and CO does not
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You can just go hunt an 8 point unit now! or a 16 point unit! It's your choice to "Chase" a unit that you think is better. Just go hunt!
 
I am in favor of point averaging. It will def increase some point creep in the lower point ranges, but I suspect it will mostly increase point creep in the mid range units, but not forever. And it should reduce point creep in the top units. Many people who are giving up on top tier units can take multiple people out of the point game with them.

The bottom line is more total people will be using their points, and although might hurt for a few years, it should reduce creep in the long term

Also, if someone else’s group of 2-4 people has a total of 20 years of points, IMO they should get preference over a group with 10 yrs. And no, I am not banking points for a top unit. I have 0 points for deer and elk.
 
txhunter58 said:
I am in favor of point averaging. It will def increase some point creep in the lower point ranges, but I suspect it will mostly increase point creep in the mid range units, but not forever. And it should reduce point creep in the top units. Many people who are giving up on top tier units can take multiple people out of the point game with them.

The bottom line is more total people will be using their points, and although might hurt for a few years, it should reduce creep in the long term

Also, if someone else’s group of 2-4 people has a total of 20 years of points, IMO they should get preference over a group with 10 yrs. And no, I am not banking points for a top unit. I have 0 points for deer and elk.
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Tex, I respectfully disagree, Those with 20 years of points have plenty of options to just go and hunt! If they keep waiting for people on the internet telling them that points equal a bigger buck or bull they will never go hunting. Why are they waiting for a group when they already have the points for a hunt?
I have no pity on those that accumulate points, don't hunt, complain and now want to change the system for their benefit.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Tex, I respectfully disagree, Those with 20 years of points have plenty of options to just go and hunt! If they keep waiting for people on the internet telling them that points equal a bigger buck or bull they will never go hunting. Why are they waiting for a group when they already have the points for a hunt?
I have no pity on those that accumulate points, don't hunt, complain and now want to change the system for their benefit.
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Agreed! Points banking would hurt the people who aren’t interested in playing the long points game.
 
If Colo truly wants to do something that will make the biggest impact to pt jumping/leaping it will convert to all draw for limited elk.......period...end of story. Also require those that purchase landowner licenses, leftover tags, etc to burn pts. If you want to hunt bull elk or buck deer in Colo you have to burn pts!

It's impossible to manage Colo elk and elk hunter numbers with OTC tags.
 
huckleberryhi said:
Fair enough, the exchange would have to be Colorado residents can't hunt anywhere else🤣. Even after the antis close down hunting in the next decade.
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I have nothing against non residents coming to Colorado to go hunting. In fact I look at it as a great thing for more than one reason.
What I do have a problem with is the free for all that the greedy CPW has turned Colorado hunting into. No other western state allows an unlimited amount of non resident hunters. Colorado needs make some changes.
 
Gadjet said:
I have nothing against non residents coming to Colorado to go hunting. In fact I look at it as a great thing for more than one reason.
What I do have a problem with is the free for all that the greedy CPW has turned Colorado hunting into. No other western state allows an unlimited amount of non resident hunters. Colorado needs make some changes.
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Also, I understand the sentiment. Had a group from Texas next to us last time I hunted Colorado, 078. They had a side by side in an area with no ohv acces and they drove every trail in the unit. I believe the guy shout a bull and tagged it with his daughters tag. Last day of the season, and limited response time for the warden. I don't have the answers, all I know is it takes a **** load of points to draw a cow tag in that unit and I don't know how to fix that.
 
HntHrdr said:
Been meaning to chat with you… since your out of business next year, any going out of business deals this season?
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It won't last, if it does change many many people won't except a high point tag with no time to scout. Pretty much the reason they started it in the first place. CPW is money hungry and if they start seeing lots of unclaimed tags and a drop in revenue they will reinstate it.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
It won't last, if it does change many many people won't except a high point tag with no time to scout. Pretty much the reason they started it in the first place. CPW is money hungry and if they start seeing lots of unclaimed tags and a drop in revenue they will reinstate it.
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Probably right, this state values the almighty dollar over everything…
 
Country said:
It seems like they could make it very simple, you draw a tag regardless primary, secondary, reissue, you use your points, done. No refunds. Make people commit then be held accountable to their commitment.
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We did this in Utah several years ago. Point creep… not effected. I’m not for nor against it, it just didn’t work.
 
Utah just doesn’t have enough total tags to make a difference. It would be different in Colorado. Esp if they made all tags draw only.
 
LOL, the wolves and lions will have everything devoured by 2028. Colorado is going to be like Washington,Oregon, California. Predators are going to rule supreme and the hunting is going to suck.
 
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Mallardsx2 said:
I thought this was being covered and voted on tomorrow?
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It is one the agenda for Friday, discussion/update only, far from a vote. I see it's the last discussion item right before lunch break. I'm sure it will get the attention that it deserves after alot of time and effort over the past year. Hopefully the CPW "Staff Recommenders" don't leave for an early lumch break.
 
MountainSqwabler said:
Part of me truly wonders how colorado would fair if it transitioned over to a 100% resident. No 90/10, just straight resident only. Now ik that would never happen ever, but makes ya wonder what things would be like.
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I remember probably a couple decades ago or more when certain states were talking about doing away with non-resident tags. Other states, mostly western states vowed to not allow hunters from any state that did not allow non-resident hunting, from hunting their states. That idea went away real quick when the midwest and eastern hunters faced the thought of not being able to hunt elk, pronghorn, sheep, etc.
 

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