Colorado Legal

Cornhusker · May 30, 2020

Hello guys the knowledge on th Muzzy Forum always amazes me. I'm asking for some ideas on getting ready for a Colorado muzzy tag I should draw next week.

I've muzzy hunted for over 20 years but always hunted in states that weren't restrictive on bullet type and I've also used smokeless Buckhorn 209, I believe since it came out. In Nebraska the state allows a scope as well as sabots. As a result I shoot a .50 cal Thompson Triumph with a Leupold Ultimateslam 3x9 scope that makes a muzzleloader an awful lot like a modern rifle. I'm more of a opportunity type of hunter whether it's a muzzleloader or bow. As a result I need to develop a open sight system my older eyes 61 can feel good about, as well as a bullet and powder. I would like some suggestions from you guys about this, is the Thor bullet still consider the premier bullet? I have the fiber optics sights but looking for something better? Thanks for the help.

txhunter58 · May 30, 2020

Stay with BH 209. Should work well in a triumph. But generally lower amounts of powder compared to sabots. Many times the bigger the bullet, the less the powder. My elk load is 95 gr of BH 209.

I use a small front fiberoptic bead sight and a rear willams peep. You eye naturally centers the front sight In the center of the peep. But instead of the stock peep on the Williams, I also get a “twilight peep” that has a brass circle and is bigger. Helps in low light.

I use the 12 o’clock hold. Instead of covering the bullseye with the front bead you set it on top of the front sight. That took my groups at 100 yards from 3-4” to 2-3”

I have killed two elk with powerbelts but I won’t use them again. They are soft lead and there are better bullets out there. Thor’s are basically Barnes Copper bullets and they are very good if you can get them to shoot well

That brings us to the problem with T/C guns like the triumph with the QLA (false muzzle). Many times the barrels that T/C uses has the bore cut a little off center. That would not be a problem except that the QLA IS cut in the center. If you have one of those guns, when a conical bullet enters the QLA, the gas passes more on one side of the bullet kicking it to the side. You may be lucky and get a gun that will shoot conicals well but maybe not. Best chances are with bullets that have a rear “bell” like the Thor because the gas will push the bell wider in the QLA and might not affect accuracy. Just have to try it and see

I really liked (and killed 4 elk) with the Hornady 350 gr FPB, but they are discontinued

The closest thing to that today is the Federal BOR LOK 350 gr. Like the Hornady FPB it is a lead alloy so is tougher than PowerBelts. Not sure how they would shoot in a triumph

Another bullet I might try would be Hornady Great Plains They have a rear bell as well.

txhunter58 · May 30, 2020

double post

Cornhusker · May 30, 2020

Wow! Thanks for the great post and help Txhunter 58. I just ordered the Thor sample pack. I think I'll see what the Thor bullet will do and if I got lucky with the QLA on the gun I have. I think I'll stick with BH 209 as I've shot it for awhile and like it. I also like the idea of the 12 o'clock hold on the peep sight. When I first started with open sights on a muzzy years ago the covering of the animal at distance with traditional fiber optic sights was a problem.

Thanks Again

txhunter58 · May 30, 2020

Thors do have the rear bell that expands so you have a decent shot. Pun intended! Get the 300 gr for elk. For open sight distances prob doesn’t make any difference whether you get the spire or hollowpoint. I always used the spire but you need the same kinda loading tip you use to load other spire points.

Also get a short bullet starter like this one:

Traditions Deluxe Bullet Starter Kit : Cabela's

Highly versatile, the Traditions™ Deluxe Bullet Starter Kit features a ball starter that can be screwed onto to the end of your ramrod (not included) and be used as a range rod, or it works equally well as a bullet starter. Durable polymer handle is shaped for hand comfort.

www.cabelas.com

!

Set the bullet in the QLA and the starter on top and give it a “what” with your palm. That will get it started in the riflings and then you can more easily finish seating with your ram rod

txhunter58 · May 30, 2020

Here is the peep appeture I use. I use the one that comes with the gun to sight in (smaller peep) then switch to the bigger appeture once I have found the most accurate load

https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-twilight-aperture/

Also remember that BH 209 is at least 15% stronger than Black powder. So anything over 85 gr is equivalent to 100 gr black. And there is a saying that 100 gr of black powder and a 300 gr bullet will Take any North American game. Paraphrased from Jim Shockey. I would prob start at 90 grains, shoot 3 times, then 95 and shoot three times, then 100 grains. If you find an accurate load at those charges you are good to go, for sure out to 150 yards and if you can shoot further than that with open sights you are DA MAN

Good luck.

txhunter58 · May 30, 2020

One final point: You can’t buy Thor’s year round. They only make so many a year and they usually run out sometime in the fall. So if they work, and you find a good load, order enough to practice with and have enough left for hunting. ?

txhunter58 · May 31, 2020

Sent you a PM

FrontierGander · Jun 2, 2020

With muzzle-loaders.com buying out thor bullets, I am sure they will have a much larger supply now than Terry used to.

txhunter58 · Jun 2, 2020

Hope so, but they still have the disclaimer...”make limited runs every year”

HIcountryman · Jun 7, 2020

Listen to TX! and consider a front globe sight. It is a big circle on front... I use a Lyman with Lee Shaver inserts. the fiber optic front sight covers a lot of animal at even 100 yds.

Muley · Jun 9, 2020

For the record. Even though Blackhorn 209 is a detuned smokeless powder. Legally it's a black powder substitute. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to use it in Colorado.

txhunter58 · Jun 9, 2020

HIcountryman said:
Listen to TX! and consider a front globe sight. It is a big circle on front... I use a Lyman with Lee Shaver inserts. the fiber optic front sight covers a lot of animal at even 100 yds.

how does that work in low light or deep shadow. I never think I can see crosshairs on those at dusk.

and that is why I use the 6 O,clock hold. Put the bullseye on top of the front site so it doesn’t cover up your target. Much finer point of aim that way.

kalielkslayer · Jun 14, 2020

txhunter58 said:
how does that work in low light or deep shadow. I never think I can see crosshairs on those at dusk.

and that is why I use the 6 O,clock hold. Put the bullseye on top of the front site so it doesn’t cover up your target. Much finer point of aim that way.

my first muzzyloader, in the 90s, I sighted it in with the little ball covering the target. 4-5 inch groups at 100 yards. Then I got a fine front blade and groups shrunk in half.

fast forward 15 years. I got a new gun and put a scope on it to work up a load. Then I was going to buy a Williams rear, probably heard that here, maybe even from you. After dailing the load in, I said what the heck, let’s shoot it with the factory fiber optic sights just because.

the 6 O’clock hold was the ticket. That gun would shoot right at 2” groups with open sights off of a rest.

for me, being able to see the point of impact over the front sight was a game changer.