Copper Fouling

toolmann · Aug 21, 2015

Hey guys and gals. I bought a new Weatherby Vanguard II in 270 WIN for my son last winter. We've put probably 80-100 rounds down the tube, and I've cleaned it after EVERY range visit using the Birchwood Casey Grun Scrubber. All we have shot so far are Core-Lokts, and tomorrow We will be getting dialed in with Barnes TTSX in prep for his elk hunt. In getting ready to head to the range tomorrow I noticed I could see the fouling near the muzzle end of the barrel. Any thoughts? Is this just going to be natural even with proper maintenance, or should I try a stronger solvent after the season is over. Accuracy is spectacular, so I don't think anything is being hurt in that department.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

TM

Cahunter805 · Aug 21, 2015

If accuracy is good I'd continue to shoot it until it starts to get worse. Then get yourself a good copper cleaner. I use boretech products and they work extremely well.
Also I'd recommend not cleaning after every range session. More damage is done by over cleaning than most people think. Also use a bore guide and coated rod.

toolmann · Aug 21, 2015

Thanks for the advice. Some of my other guns I don't clean as much, just sort of kept cleaning this one since it was new. I also use the synthetic brushes instead of the brass. As long as it shoots good tomorrow we'll be putting her in the back of the safe until elk season. Then I'll check into the product you mentioned and give her a good cleaning once we're done hunting for the year.

TM

Togwotee · Aug 22, 2015

I used Sweets for years but switched to Wipeout wich seems to work as good but without the stink and corrosive nature.

I would clean the bore until the patches come out white, no good comes from a copper loaded bore. if your gun won't shoot with a clean bore which is unlikely anyway then get rid of it.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

toolmann · Aug 22, 2015

The gun is a shooter. Just got back from another range trip. Not as good as previous outings, but I was pretty shaky today for some reason. I just have never had a gun show so much fowling and wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.

TM

Pre64 · Aug 22, 2015

When I see copper fouling in the barrel is generally seems to just get worse. I use CR-10. I don't think you rifle will lose any accuracy by cleaning the copper out of the barrel. I've got a few rifles that lose a lot of accuracy as the copper builds up.

sagebrush · Aug 22, 2015

There is always copper fouling in a bore once a clean rifle has been fired. The question you need to answer at the range is how much fouling is good for accuracy. Some rifles will actually get slightly better groups as fouling builds but all rifles will lose accuracy when fouling becomes extreme. You may have too much fouling now.

I too used Sweets 762 for years but have since switched to Wipeout. I think Wipeout is a superior solvent and takes much less time and product to get a bore clean.

Get your bore squeeky clean and take another trip to the range. Put a few rounds through the tube until you are happy with the point of impact and leave it until the hunting season is over.

I've had some rifles that could go a several hundred rounds between copper cleaning and others that couldn't make it to one hundred.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

ofdscooby · Aug 22, 2015

I don't know anything about the barrels on a vanguard but i have been told with most premium hand lapped barrels the muzzle area will hold the most copper so don't get too discouraged its not necessarily an indication of the whole barrel. When I am cleaning a barrel I always run multiple wet patch of copper solvent through before/if scrubbing and on the last wet patch I let it sit in the end of the barrel for awhile. I have a 30-06 that shoots a 165 GMX in a tight little group but there is a very picky window of accuracy between too little and too much fouling.

Togwotee · Aug 22, 2015

A Vangard barrel is anything but premium but you're right a high quality lapped stainless barrel fouls much less.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

mtmuley · Aug 22, 2015

I would clean it since you are switching from Core-Lokts to Barnes. Different jacket materials sometimes play havoc with accuracy. Then clean as reccomended by Barnes, or when accuracy falls off. mtmuley

WapitiBob · Aug 23, 2015

If it's shooting well, I wouldn't switch bullets.

Zeke · Aug 23, 2015

Randy Brooks (Barnes bullets) recommends getting all the copper out before switching to Barnes. The softer pure copper of Barnes will shear off or tear when it slides down the bore that's fouled with guilding-metal jacketed bullets.
Take that for what it's worth but I always remove the copper when switching bullets from Nosler to Barnes....or visa versa.
With that said, no one can argue with success and there are guys who say they rarely clean and never remove copper....of course their guns are usually not the best shooters. Lol
Zeke

toolmann · Aug 23, 2015

Thanks everyone for all of the input. I only switched bullets because I wanted something better in the 270 for elk. I know guys kill em' with 130 grain core-lokts, but I'd prefer a better bullet in that caliber. That is a debate for another thread though. I will probably try to clean out any fouling then hit the range again. Just trying to not have to do too much range time with the cost of the Barnes ammo. Maybe Cabelas will keep them on sale a bit longer!

TM

Togwotee · Aug 23, 2015

If I were going to use a 270 on elk the 150 Partition would be my top choice.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

toolmann · Aug 23, 2015

^ Like I said, a whole different thread for that discussion

Togwotee · Aug 23, 2015

It might be one you should partake of if you really want to use a 270 on elk.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

Zeke · Aug 23, 2015

I've used Barnes and will almost every time for elk.
It would be my bullet of choice for elk in a 270!
Thank God there are others that work well too...like the partition.
But that an whole other discussion.
Zeke

toolmann · Aug 23, 2015

Not to worry Togwotee. I had that conversation for multiple months before I purchased the new rifle, and had the same in regards to ammo selection many times since. I've put in a lot of research in that area. I know the 150 AB is a great choice, but I've selected another one of the great choices.

TM

Togwotee · Aug 23, 2015

The TSX never let me down but it came close too many times.

Good luck.

Stay Thirsty My Friends

kilowatt · Aug 23, 2015

TOG...when is your Sheep hunt in Wyo and what caliber/bullet combo you taking with you?

Brian
http://i44.tinypic.com/es7x8z.jpg[/IMG]

toolmann · Aug 28, 2015

Update: I ordered some CR-10. It took three rounds, but it is clean now. Not sure if I have any nose hairs left however. That stuff works fast, but boy is it nasty. Definitely need to flip the lid closed after applying to each patch. I'll be back at the range next weekend to see how she shoots now.

TM

swbuckmaster · Sep 2, 2015

I think its fine to clean between different bullets. However you need to look up "copper equilibrium" to understand the effects of cleaning better

Why is this site the worst out for browsing with
a phone or posting with a phone?

toolmann · Sep 4, 2015

Another update. Hit the range this morning. First three shots with the Barnes were all touching each other. I'll take that any day of the week. Only shot out to 200 yards was grouping around 1.5". I put her in the safe and that is where she'll stay until the season opens.

Thanks to all for your input.

TM