Corner Hopping 2020

highfastflyer

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Apparently Carbon County making a big issue of this for this year. From another forum,
CORNER CROSSING - CARBON COUNTY WYOMING

I have news on corner crossing within Carbon County from the District Attorney Ashley Mayfield Davis and Sheriff Archie Roybal. I have confirmed with both agencies that they will prosecute individuals for criminal trespass seeking to corner cross from one parcel of PUBLIC land (BLM/State/National) to another parcel of PUBLIC land (BLM/State/National) even at a valid surveying mark and location. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up and inform you about CARBON COUNTY’s Ashley Mayfield Davis and Archie Roybal’s stance on corner crossing which should be general public knowledge now. This is how Carbon County has “historically operated” even though I cannot get specific examples of individuals corner crossing from a surveying mark.

Just figured this information should be out there for anybody thinking about doing it within CARBON COUNTY.
 
Only way I see this working out is 2 ways...
Easment....which will never happen
Or
Landowners offer comparable pieces that are adjacent to avalable access and keep the landlocked stuff.

Otherwise, there will be litigation. That is "our land" not a ranchers.
 
Please show me the law that says corner crossing is illegal in Wyoming.

I'll stand by...
I have no Idea.....like usual I should have stayed out of your fight....If there is no law then why would they claim they are going to enforce it???....or what are they claiming they will enforce??
 
I have no Idea.....like usual I should have stayed out of your fight....If there is no law then why would they claim they are going to enforce it???....or what are they claiming they will enforce??
I can't speak for their motivations anymore than I can speak for yours wanting to comment here while not knowing Wyoming law.
 
Their argument is akin to somebody standing on the sidewalk and extending their arm over your front lawn.

They're saying they own the air above their lawn, okay, fine. But what are the damages. I challenge somebody to get a LEO to write a citation for that type of trespassing.

If they don't write that citation, they shouldn't write one for corner hopping... to do so would only be to block access to public property.

I hope somebody will call the local media and sheriff and announce the time and location and go corner cross. Force their hand and let's get this solved.
 
IMO the sheriff's and landowners have avoided actually charging because they're afraid they could lose and precedent will be set. The threat of the charge may carry more weight than the charge ever will.
 
I can't speak for their motivations anymore than I can speak for yours wanting to comment here while not knowing Wyoming law.
My comment wasn't specific to any state....my comment was solely about the relationship of law enforcers to the law....
 
Of course the sheriff and DA in Carbon County would say that. Where do you think their campaign money and votes come from? Carbon County, like most counties in Wyoming, is made up of huge ranches. Times are changing and I would bet they would be scared to take a corner jumping (trespass) citation to court. Especially if you asked for a jury trial in the matter. Being Carbon County you would probably end up with a lot of hunters on the jury. Once the flood gates are open there would be some very upset ranchers and outfitters in this state. If I was either, I would be very careful how far they pushed this issue. It sure would open up thousands of acres of land outfitters and landowners have been using as their own private hunting clubs.
 
Depends on what your opinion on setting precedence is. It's been beat in court that's all the precedence i need
 
my experience almost everywhere is the the ranchers insist the corner is where grand pappy said the corner was...not where modern GPS says where the corner is......
In Carbon county, over 90% of all those corners are surveyed with a legal and government sanctioned bronze survey marker showing the exact location of that corner. Even if they aren’t the onus is upon LE to prove you trespassed.
 
If I'm not mistaken there are two court cases in wyoming of corner jumping where the landowners won. I don't have the links and don't feel like looking them up, but the precedent of air space to 500' has been set. Pretty sure it has been doubled down by drone cases dozens of times since.

I'm a total diy otc kinda guy and play these land issues to the N'th degree on a regular basis, but in Wyoming and Montana, corner jumping is not one that I believe I can win. Play that game at your peril !!!

Cheers, Pete
 
If I'm not mistaken there are two court cases in wyoming of corner jumping where the landowners won. I don't have the links and don't feel like looking them up, but the precedent of air space to 500' has been set. Pretty sure it has been doubled down by drone cases dozens of times since.

I'm a total diy otc kinda guy and play these land issues to the N'th degree on a regular basis, but in Wyoming and Montana, corner jumping is not one that I believe I can win. Play that game at your peril !!!

Cheers, Pete
Ive never found them i dont believe thats a true statement
 
If I'm not mistaken there are two court cases in wyoming of corner jumping where the landowners won. I don't have the links and don't feel like looking them up, but the precedent of air space to 500' has been set. Pretty sure it has been doubled down by drone cases dozens of times since.

I'm a total diy otc kinda guy and play these land issues to the N'th degree on a regular basis, but in Wyoming and Montana, corner jumping is not one that I believe I can win. Play that game at your peril !!!

Cheers, Pete
Do you just make this up as you go? You don't have the links because no landowner has ever pressed corner cross and won in Wyoming.

As far as airspace goes, in Wyoming law it pertains to how low aircraft can fly over deeded ground.

I guess if you're "not mistaken", then you are "pretty sure". Well done...
 
If I'm not mistaken there are two court cases in wyoming of corner jumping where the landowners won. I don't have the links and don't feel like looking them up, but the precedent of air space to 500' has been set. Pretty sure it has been doubled down by drone cases dozens of times since.

I'm a total diy otc kinda guy and play these land issues to the N'th degree on a regular basis, but in Wyoming and Montana, corner jumping is not one that I believe I can win. Play that game at your peril !!!

Cheers, Pete
If I'm not mistaken, I don't have the links, pretty sure, and i believe.

I won't be taking any advice from you, but thanks.
 
North Dakota has a good solution. It has a 30 foot easement around all sections which is public land. We could do something similar in Wyoming and compensate the landowners for their loss of land. Rough numbers if you have a 30 foot easement then half would be on either side of the section line so 15 X 5280=79,200 sq. feet or about 2 acres lost per side of a section X4= about 8 total acres lost. Much of this land is bordering BLM lands and has low market value but if you paid each landowner $1000 per lost acre it would be $8000 per section. This is what citizens would have to decide. Are they willing to compensate the landowners for an easement in these checkerboard lands. Something to think about and a workable solution.
 
Off topic BUT. Wyoming also has BS laws regarding river and streams. They claim the landowners own the bottom so you can't wade or even drop anchor. Wyoming rancher based laws that screw the sportsman.
 
Off topic BUT. Wyoming also has BS laws regarding river and streams. They claim the landowners own the bottom so you can't wade or even drop anchor. Wyoming rancher based laws that screw the sportsman.
You’re likely comparing Wyoming to Montana, a bad analogy. A better comparison is Utah and Colorado which have very similar laws as Wyoming stream and river access. We are fortunate in Wyoming compared to many states as at least you can float it and fish it, just don’t touch the bottom unless you are floating through public land.
 
Do away with the checkerboard land dispersion all together. If there's 50 square miles of BLM on a given parcel(s), make it all consecutive. I dont know whose responsibility it is to draw up BLM/private parcels but whoever lays out areas like these needs shot.

Screenshot_20200928-022132_onX Hunt.jpg
 
Do away with the checkerboard land dispersion all together. If there's 50 square miles of BLM on a given parcel(s), make it all consecutive. I dont know whose responsibility it is to draw up BLM/private parcels but whoever lays out areas like these needs shot.
It was set up that way by the government in the 1860s in response to the railroad so over 160 years ago and then large ranch owners homesteaded and bought out other homesteaders in order to create large land locked public parcels. Doing away with it is likely impossible as you are talking millions of acres. Just trying to get a small swap of public for private lands nowadays requires years of negotiation and bargaining. Try doing that on a scale of this size, it will never happen though an easement passed by a legislature with a compensation fund might work if taxpayers are willing to pay for those easements. It would be tens of millions of dollars.
 
It was set up that way by the government in the 1860s in response to the railroad so over 160 years ago and then large ranch owners homesteaded and bought out other homesteaders in order to create large land locked public parcels. Doing away with it is likely impossible as you are talking millions of acres. Just trying to get a small swap of public for private lands nowadays requires years of negotiation and bargaining. Try doing that on a scale of this size, it will never happen though an easement passed by a legislature with a compensation fund might work if taxpayers are willing to pay for those easements. It would be tens of millions of dollars.

Never knew the BLM went back that far! So those checkerboarded areas are just pure dumb luck that got landlocked that way as people bought and sold the land over the years?
 
So, would I go corner hop a corner where there was no physical evidence on the ground, but my GPS mapping tool is telling me it is, no I wouldn't. If I can see the physical corner in the ground and do not need to step around a fence, I would. IMO, if you have to go around, over, through a fence to get to the other side, then you'd probably have to trespass to do so, and I think that where County Attorneys are coming from.

The BLM is only the managing agency. The GLO (Government Land Office) was tasked to set up the PLSS (Public Land Survey System), using aliquot parts (Section, Township, Ranges) long ago. The checkerboard land was land given to the railroad from the government to spur development west, build rails to expand into the west. If my memory is correct, I thought is was 20-30 miles on each side of the rail through most of Wyoming. Long time ago now.

To the comment about modern GPS stating where grandpappy's corner is.... the tools are only as good as the mappers projection is and public records are. They give you a great idea of where the property lines are, but they do not firmly establish the actual physical location of a corner/property line. The corner evidence on the ground does. I have been told that property lines in those tools such as On-X, Basemap..etc. would hold up in a trespass dispute, but they cannot establish the actual property line. The only way to establish a property line for certain is a physical land survey of the aliquot parts on the ground. (Doesn't On-X provide some kind of insurance in this case?, well, this is why)
All public land corners (aliquot part corners) that have recently been set, say last 50-60 years are usually recorded in the County courthouse. There usually is no LAT/LONG data on that corner. If there is not enough recent data in the public courthouse on aliquot part corners, then surveyors have to go back to the original GLO records when the land was originally divided. Most every section corner and township/range line was set back in the 1800's. Corners where usually made of stone, with markings on a side, mound of stones or earth. Many have been replaced with modern brass monuments. All GLO records were recorded in chains, 80 chains to a mile, each chain being 66 feet. I have found granite stones with perfect markings as far back as mid 1880's in my area, no modern GPS unit would know it was there, maybe within a 30' radius. That had to be some hot, sweaty, dirty work draggin' a 66 feet length steel chain for miles and miles through the desert.
 
The only way to establish a property line for certain is a physical land survey of the aliquot parts on the ground.
I've had two surveys come up with different corners depending on which monuments they use as well. Old corners are famously hard to find, especially in rural areas where they use things such as riverbanks in the legal description.

I don't know about Wyoming, but in Utah an existing fence becomes the boundary after 20 years and supercedes the survey anyway.

If that's the case in Wyoming, a corner of three-strand may be the best place to cross over.

Whoever is going to test it (assuming somebody does) should do it not while hunting to keep WYGF out of it and keep it only between the DA and the landowner. At least then it's not a hunting violation ?

I've always thought it's pretty hard to get "beyond a reasonable doubt" when even civil engineers, country recorders, and GPS units can't agree on the boundary. It seems that would raise reasonable doubt for the guy on the ground?

But, of course, corner cross at your own risk.
 
So, would I go corner hop a corner where there was no physical evidence on the ground, but my GPS mapping tool is telling me it is, no I wouldn't. If I can see the physical corner in the ground and do not need to step around a fence, I would. IMO, if you have to go around, over, through a fence to get to the other side, then you'd probably have to trespass to do so, and I think that where County Attorneys are coming from.
If you carried one of these, would you go over the fence at the corner?

Ladder.jpg


ladder2.jpg
 
If you carried one of these, would you go over the fence at the corner?
How about these options?

A helicopter is legal, but jumping isn't? I understand the air rights issue, but all of those court cases someone was taking something from the other person or causing a loss in their air space, that is not the case here when you can helicopter in or jump. No one wants to fight this, because both sides are right and both sides are wrong, either could win or lose.

What is going on in Colorado? Do they have a law against corner hopping? I know there not nearly as many sections that adjoin, but there are definitely some.

Pogostick.jpg


polevault.jpg
 
You’re likely comparing Wyoming to Montana, a bad analogy. A better comparison is Utah and Colorado which have very similar laws as Wyoming stream and river access. We are fortunate in Wyoming compared to many states as at least you can float it and fish it, just don’t touch the bottom unless you are floating through public land.

Not sure how I'm "likely" comparing any state to Wyoming. Maybe you read something into it that wasn't there. I said what I said nothing more. I'm not worried about Montana, Utah, or Colorado just Wyoming.
 
I've had two surveys come up with different corners depending on which monuments they use as well. Old corners are famously hard to find, especially in rural areas where they use things such as riverbanks in the legal description.

I don't know about Wyoming, but in Utah an existing fence becomes the boundary after 20 years and supercedes the survey anyway.

If that's the case in Wyoming, a corner of three-strand may be the best place to cross over.

Whoever is going to test it (assuming somebody does) should do it not while hunting to keep WYGF out of it and keep it only between the DA and the landowner. At least then it's not a hunting violation ?

I've always thought it's pretty hard to get "beyond a reasonable doubt" when even civil engineers, country recorders, and GPS units can't agree on the boundary. It seems that would raise reasonable doubt for the guy on the ground?

But, of course, corner cross at your own risk.

WYGF is already completely out of corner crossing...period.
 
I would like to see someone go to court for this. Make sure you have maps, gps, and your hunting license. The license means you can hunt on state land. In court show that you have the most current maps and gps. This will show you are going above and beyond making the effort to avoid private land. It would be interesting to see what a jury would come up with. If not, take it to a higher court. I’m sure there are some rights violated by denying public land to a person that pays the fee and also a taxpayer.
 
No, it's been to the supreme court twice in Leo Sheep Co vs USA

There is no implied easement that goes with the checkerboard land grants. There's many cases where your tree's that hang over my yard I can cut down. It's criminal trespass to fly your drone over someone's yard if they ever so choose to fight it.

By your guys reasoning, I could build a jump and huck my wheeler over the corner and do as I please back there. Oh, wait, you all hate those things too, so you'd never allow such a thing.

Just because they decided not to prosecute the albany case doesn't make your whim the rule of law.

I'm just joe smoe with only a 1/4 acre to my name. Mostly on your side, but this sort of thing is a very slippery slope. Your desire to hunt "your" land back there. Keeping people out of there does have a monetary value.

Do you just make this up as you go? You don't have the links because no landowner has ever pressed corner cross and won in Wyoming.

As far as airspace goes, in Wyoming law it pertains to how low aircraft can fly over deeded ground.

I guess if you're "not mistaken", then you are "pretty sure". Well done...
Please show me the law that says corner crossing is illegal in Wyoming.

I'll stand by...
 
No, it's been to the supreme court twice in Leo Sheep Co vs USA

There is no implied easement that goes with the checkerboard land grants. There's many cases where your tree's that hang over my yard I can cut down. It's criminal trespass to fly your drone over someone's yard if they ever so choose to fight it.

By your guys reasoning, I could build a jump and huck my wheeler over the corner and do as I please back there. Oh, wait, you all hate those things too, so you'd never allow such a thing.

Just because they decided not to prosecute the albany case doesn't make your whim the rule of law.

I'm just joe smoe with only a 1/4 acre to my name. Mostly on your side, but this sort of thing is a very slippery slope. Your desire to hunt "your" land back there. Keeping people out of there does have a monetary value.

Don't break your leg jumping to unfounded red herrings...

First off, no, cartwheeling your ATV from one piece of BLM to another would not be legal most likely as most BLM has off-road vehicle restrictions. Plus, that's about the lamest of lame things I've read, nobody is advocating for motorized access via corner crossing.

As to the Albany county case, it was attempted to be prosecuted and Judge Robert Castor found in favor of the guy that corner crossed.

Finally, as to your assertion that there is damage caused a landowner because the wildlife has value on public lands...isnt going to hold an ounce of water. In trespass cases, the landowner has to prove there are damages to his personal property due to the corner crossing. What monetary damages would there be stepping from one piece of public land to another piece of public land? Answer...no monetary damages.

Crossing a corner, from public to public, and legally harvesting a 380 bull, 200 inch mule deer (both State assets) on land owned by all 300 million public land owners is not imposing monetary damages to a private landowner.

Your theories are just not relevant or correct...
 
Crossing a corner, from public to public, and legally harvesting a 380 bull, 200 inch mule deer (both State assets) on land owned by all 300 million public land owners is not imposing monetary damages to a private landowner.

I have noticed over the years it seems people will corner cross to hunt antelope without as much hesitation. Deer hunters seem to fall off considerably and I’ve only encountered a handful (maybe only a couple now that I think about it) doing it while elk hunting. Curious if your experience is similar?
 
I wonder if the checker board layout was originally not a problem because there originally was a right of way down every section line, otherwise how would settlers have the ability to travel, even to there own parcel. However somewhere along the line, the west eliminated those right of ways. probably prompted by the ranching community
 
The Leo Sheep case is the basis for all these types of private property rights. Would it have been ok for them to just build a bridge over the corner of the guys land to get to the reservoir? In your guys way of thinking it would be.

Is it ok for the bums to step across the corner of your property to go live in the woods behind your house? Would it be as valuable if your governments allowed that?

When you, BuzzH say 'it's ok for me to corner cross, it's my right', don't be surprised when they don't come after or enforce the next 'little' thing that happens to be in your personal neck of the woods.

Private property rights are a super slippery slope with the nut jobs we are dealing with in our world today. Mark my words, your guys claim to suit yourselves now might just come back to bite you in the azz on something nearer and dearer to your heart than you could possibly know right now.

As for me and my house, I'll side with the landowners on this one and hope your slippery doesn't some day come to slime me and mine :(

Don't break your leg jumping to unfounded red herrings...

First off, no, cartwheeling your ATV from one piece of BLM to another would not be legal most likely as most BLM has off-road vehicle restrictions. Plus, that's about the lamest of lame things I've read, nobody is advocating for motorized access via corner crossing.....
 
The Leo Sheep case is the basis for all these types of private property rights. Would it have been ok for them to just build a bridge over the corner of the guys land to get to the reservoir? In your guys way of thinking it would be.

Is it ok for the bums to step across the corner of your property to go live in the woods behind your house? Would it be as valuable if your governments allowed that?

When you, BuzzH say 'it's ok for me to corner cross, it's my right', don't be surprised when they don't come after or enforce the next 'little' thing that happens to be in your personal neck of the woods.

Private property rights are a super slippery slope with the nut jobs we are dealing with in our world today. Mark my words, your guys claim to suit yourselves now might just come back to bite you in the azz on something nearer and dearer to your heart than you could possibly know right now.

As for me and my house, I'll side with the landowners on this one and hope your slippery doesn't some day come to slime me and mine :(
C3 it sounds like you like to drink and post. I think we could be friends...
 
The Leo Sheep case is the basis for all these types of private property rights. Would it have been ok for them to just build a bridge over the corner of the guys land to get to the reservoir? In your guys way of thinking it would be.

Is it ok for the bums to step across the corner of your property to go live in the woods behind your house? Would it be as valuable if your governments allowed that?

When you, BuzzH say 'it's ok for me to corner cross, it's my right', don't be surprised when they don't come after or enforce the next 'little' thing that happens to be in your personal neck of the woods.

Private property rights are a super slippery slope with the nut jobs we are dealing with in our world today. Mark my words, your guys claim to suit yourselves now might just come back to bite you in the azz on something nearer and dearer to your heart than you could possibly know right now.

As for me and my house, I'll side with the landowners on this one and hope your slippery doesn't some day come to slime me and mine :(
Leo Sheep was a completely different set of facts where the Govt. tried to build a road through a corner section 30 feet wide. Stepping across a bronze corner pin vs. Building a 30 foot road are far far different animals. The prosecuting attorney in the Albany Court case tried that line of reasoning. Judge Castor laughed him out of the courtroom. I suggest you re-read that case as that dog don’t hunt when it comes to merely mixing the air above the corner pin when your size 10 boot steps through that airspace.
 
North Dakota has a good solution. It has a 30 foot easement around all sections which is public land. We could do something similar in Wyoming and compensate the landowners for their loss of land. Rough numbers if you have a 30 foot easement then half would be on either side of the section line so 15 X 5280=79,200 sq. feet or about 2 acres lost per side of a section X4= about 8 total acres lost. Much of this land is bordering BLM lands and has low market value but if you paid each landowner $1000 per lost acre it would be $8000 per section. This is what citizens would have to decide. Are they willing to compensate the landowners for an easement in these checkerboard lands. Something to think about and a workable solution.
This is not true. Please don’t post misinformation like this on the net.
 
This is not true. Please don’t post misinformation like this on the net.
You didn’t read the link posted, I suggest you read it before commenting.

Section Lines are Public Roads

North Dakota considers section lines as public roads open for public travel and are defined as being 66 feet wide.

In all townships in this state, ... the congressional section lines are considered public roads open for public travel to the width of thirty-three feet on each side of the section lines… (N.D.C.C. §24-07-03).
 
North Dakota has a good solution. It has a 30 foot easement around all sections which is public land. We could do something similar in Wyoming and compensate the landowners for their loss of land. Rough numbers if you have a 30 foot easement then half would be on either side of the section line so 15 X 5280=79,200 sq. feet or about 2 acres lost per side of a section X4= about 8 total acres lost. Much of this land is bordering BLM lands and has low market value but if you paid each landowner $1000 per lost acre it would be $8000 per section. This is what citizens would have to decide. Are they willing to compensate the landowners for an easement in these checkerboard lands. Something to think about and a workable solution.
You didn’t read the link posted, I suggest you read it before commenting.

Section Lines are Public Roads

North Dakota considers section lines as public roads open for public travel and are defined as being 66 feet wide.
Where does it say that section lines are public lands? Also some section lines are closed now to public.

It says in the game laws that section lines are legal to walk but not legal to hunt if it’s posted private on both sides. Doesn’t sound like public land to me.

Your first sentence about section lines being public land reminds me of JM saying it’s illegal to scout from a plane in Wyoming. Misinformation spewing out daily on MM.
 
Where does it say that section lines are public lands? Also some section lines are closed now to public.

It says in the game laws that section lines are legal to walk but not legal to hunt if it’s posted private on both sides. Doesn’t sound like public land to me.

Your first sentence about section lines being public land reminds me of JM saying it’s illegal to scout from a plane in Wyoming. Misinformation spewing out daily on MM.
Very few section lines are closed and they are public...

Please quote the law that says its illegal to hunt them, I cant find it.

You can scout from the air from Feb. 1- July 31 in Wyoming...closed to scouting from the air August 1-January 31. Yes its enforced and several have been prosecuted.
 
Where does it say that section lines are public lands? Also some section lines are closed now to public.

It says in the game laws that section lines are legal to walk but not legal to hunt if it’s posted private on both sides. Doesn’t sound like public land to me.

Your first sentence about section lines being public land reminds me of JM saying it’s illegal to scout from a plane in Wyoming. Misinformation spewing out daily on MM.
Nobody ever said they were legal to hunt. You fallaciously assumed this was the case. The point of this entire thread is CORNERHOPPING. GET IT? What a public easement does around every section is it can eliminate if properly designed the ability of private landowners to try and lock you out of landlocked public sections. Sure North Dakota has smaller landlocked public lands but they would have to be small parcels or parcels where the Land board has approved to cancel the public easement. Not easy to do by the way. If this public easement policy were applied in Wyoming it could open up over 3.05 million acres of inaccessible landlocked public lands. Though you would have to compensate the landowner for the loss of the use of his land with those easements as stated earlier. Next time don’t interject in things where you are obviously Ignorant.
 
yes, the 66 feet is a right of way, not public, so can just be used to access the next property. Even when "closed", that generally means its closed to vehicle travel, not foot traffic.

Having said that. I don't know the specifics of ND
 
What about corner crossing to horn hunt? Not taking an animal, just shed antler. Now Wyoming Game and Fish has their hands in antler collection. It's absolute B. S.
 
In Park County WY. I had a game warden specifically tell me that corner crossing was deemed by the AG as trespassing. I'm not so sure that this is accurate. What if a person is just out hiking and corner hops? Is it just an issue when there is a harvested animal?
 
In Park County WY. I had a game warden specifically tell me that corner crossing was deemed by the AG as trespassing. I'm not so sure that this is accurate. What if a person is just out hiking and corner hops? Is it just an issue when there is a harvested animal?
Old thread, many of the statements here show how the practice evolved with this Carbon County DA. The Game Warden was referring to this memo but Game Wardens are instructed to not get involved directly but he could call the County Sheriff. https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf
 
I would like to see someone go to court for this. Make sure you have maps, gps, and your hunting license. The license means you can hunt on state land. In court show that you have the most current maps and gps. This will show you are going above and beyond making the effort to avoid private land. It would be interesting to see what a jury would come up with. If not, take it to a higher court. I’m sure there are some rights violated by denying public land to a person that pays the fee and also a taxpayer.
Better to just be a nature lover taking a walk. But I highly doubt you will have a rancher complain about them. What they want to do is protect there ability to hunt that land.
 
WY corner crossing seems to be a hot topic every so often. I've read most of this post, and maybe missed it, but was there a recent case that came before a court? And what was the outcome?
Thanks.
 
WY corner crossing seems to be a hot topic every so often. I've read most of this post, and maybe missed it, but was there a recent case that came before a court? And what was the outcome?
Thanks.
 
Ill corner cross any piece of public i want and i hope someday they try to give me a ticket for it. They wont but if they do ill fight it and win
Nice, I support you totally, and if the situation comes up I would absolutely donate to your legal funds.
 
This topic really fascinates me. I wonder , and I don’t think I’ve seen it specifically brought up here. Why is default automatically given to the private land owner at a corner? If all things are equal at the corners isn’t the public land just as prominent? That’s how I’d play it if I was fighting a ticket. Tell me why one takes more precedence. And if you can’t I’d say there neutral
 
This topic really fascinates me. I wonder , and I don’t think I’ve seen it specifically brought up here. Why is default automatically given to the private land owner at a corner? If all things are equal at the corners isn’t the public land just as prominent? That’s how I’d play it if I was fighting a ticket. Tell me why one takes more precedence. And if you can’t I’d say there neutral
It isn’t trespassing to walk through public lands but the landowners think it’s trespassing to pass through their airspace of private lands. A private landowner can drive a public road crossing BLM lands to get to his private lands but you cannot cross private lands to get to public lands unless a public road or easement exists.
 
It isn’t trespassing to walk through public lands but the landowners think it’s trespassing to pass through their airspace of private lands. A private landowner can drive a public road crossing BLM lands to get to his private lands but you cannot cross private lands to get to public lands unless a public road or easement exists.
Yeah but at the corner. If we picture a corner in our heads.That spot where they all come together is equal. No more private then public. I can’t see one being given precedence over the other so it has to be neutral. I’m no lawyer but I can imagine one being able to have a field day with that
 
Yeah but at the corner. If we picture a corner in our heads.That spot where they all come together is equal. No more private then public. I can’t see one being given precedence over the other so it has to be neutral. I’m no lawyer but I can imagine one being able to have a field day with that
Read back thru the thread about the "ad coelum doctrine" or do a search on it and you will see what the landowners are using as their argument. Even tho you never touch their land(ground) you have to swing your leg over it or some body part and they feel that the doctrine says they own the sky above the ground.
 
Yeah but at the corner. If we picture a corner in our heads.That spot where they all come together is equal. No more private then public. I can’t see one being given precedence over the other so it has to be neutral. I’m no lawyer but I can imagine one being able to have a field day with that
It’s a geometric plane they own which your number 10 boots and broad shoulders just trespassed thru that geometric plane. As stated above, check out the “ad coelum doctrine”. Nobody really cared backs previous to the 1970s then the BLM forced the issue with the Leo Sheep case trying to build a road across the corner. The Supreme Court set the precedent for that one and ever since 1979 all Federal agencies now claim it’s trespassing. Hopefully this case will be a start to a brighter future but an Ag. dominated legislature can reverse that in a heartbeat. Sportsmen will have to unite likely again if that battle comes along.
 
While I’ve never hunted an area of true checker boarding like we’re talking here I have definitely corner crossed some areas in Idaho ( mostly coyote hunting low) and didn’t think twice about it. And I won’t think twice about it in the future
 

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