Coyotes and Fawns

Berg

Member
Messages
28
I have had a trail cam set up on a water hole all spring and summer. Had a doe and 2 fawns coming in about every day. It was kind of fun watching them grow up from newborns and getting bigger so quickly. Then just one fawn and now there are no fawns. The fate of the first one was captured on my camera. Tore the little guy in half. My deer unit in Central/South Utah has never been this bad. I have spent untold hours here. Where you used to see 40 deer a day now you might see four. When deer numbers are down it is almost impossible to rebuild a herd when such a large % of the fawns are being taken by predators. If you see does with one or zero fawns this is most likely the reason. Tough to see these fawns being gobbled up. Especially when you watch them grow up a little on camera.
coyote.jpg
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,931
It’s amazing to me how many people won’t kill a coyote because it will “ruin” their hunt by firing a shot and scaring away game. Myself and buddies will always take any coyote we can. Have seen how much it definitely helps the deer population.
 

Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,308
My buddy and I are quite "small time" compared to the serious "big boy" coyote hunters but we managed over 40 last year and we are off to a great start this year.
Coyotes will kill adult deer and antelope too. I've witnessed it with my own eyes! They're incredibly effective hunters and we don't control them very well.
Do your part when you can!

Zeke
 

mmwb

Very Active Member
Messages
2,453
It’s amazing to me how many people won’t kill a coyote because it will “ruin” their hunt by firing a shot and scaring away game. Myself and buddies will always take any coyote we can. Have seen how much it definitely helps the deer population.
People grossly overestimate how gunfire effects game. I've observed time again, game mostly ignoring shots in the area. Shot a coyote last year and saw a buck within 100 yards afterward.
 

littlebull209338

Active Member
Messages
530
Sadly I experienced the coyote-adult deer kill a few weeks ago in Kansas when I went on my last deer hunt..ever. Opening morning I was in my blind before light..like 2 hours before. At first light I started seeing deer-7-8 walked by at about 45 yards. One decent buck. At 7:30 AM I hear a deer snorting about 100-150 yards away in the creek bottom..immediately a "herd" of coyotes started barking and yipping right there. This lasted for about 3-4 minutes and then went totally quiet. No more deer for the rest of the morning..in fact for the next 2 1/2 days. I went over to the creek and sure enough part of a big whitetail does was laying there. The coyotes continued in that area barking and yipping sometimes until 11 AM and starting back up around 4 PM. When I started seeing deer again they were all jumpy & spooky, constantly on full alert. After 2 1/2 days I could hear them about a mile away and the deer returned to the area. I bought the ranchers grandson a electric game call last fall and paid him $10 for every yote he killed...he got 7.
 
Messages
71
I have a camera that picked up a coyote chasing a fawn and doe, and ultimately killing the fawn. Posted a video on my Facebook of a coyote killing a fawn antelope earlier this summer as well. Almost shot that coyote.
 

HIcountryman

Active Member
Messages
871
RE: shooting in hunt area. I shot mz buck in good feed area at just before 8a.m.. Dragged downhill about 200 yds to gut and quarter. Got it down to car 5 miles away. Back up at dark with my brother there were deer right there where I dressed deer. Next a.m. he shot buck right where I shot mine. So they aren't bothered I guess!
Kill all coyotes you can and do not worry about shot ruining hunt. Don't know about dead yore laying there though
 

IDgrown

New Member
Messages
2
Shoot a coyote and "ruin" your hunt for and hour or a day or a week. Let it live and ruin hunting. Every hunt is a coyote hunt in my opinion.
 

garneroutlaw

Member
Messages
18
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I hunted GMU 52 in New Mexico last year for deer and caught an entire group of elk tore up. I'm not sure if it was a cat or coyotes, but there was a big pack of coyotes running those hills these nights.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
2,136
Geeeezust SS, seriously?
There have been thousands of studies in numerous states that prove this, and it's been discussed countless times right here on MM.
How do you explain why the government trappers used to have poisoning as a way to combat them?
View attachment 14906
Show me where coyotes take more big game than all other methods combined. You can’t. Because it’s total BS.

I never said coyotes don’t kill fawns. But your statement is total BS and the fact you represent the MDF in any capacity and type misinformation is disappointing.

And you didn’t even limit it to fawns. You say big game. Good grief. I know you can’t possibly believe that!

please please prove me wrong. Coyotes take more big game than all others combined. Hahahahaha hahahahaha
 

slamdunk

Moderator
Messages
7,526
Ok SS, since once again you are enjoying yet another nit picking argument with me, I can waste part of my morning trying to make you understand why there are color labels on crayons.
Although I cannot answer your demand directly, simple math easily tells the story.
I can Google this "common sense biological fact" the damage yotes have on our big game, especially fawn recruitment, but I'll entertain you with what I found with 2 simple seperate clicks.
Although I don't have an estimated number of coyote population, it doesn't take a scholar to say there is a higher number of coyotes than there are hunters.
Nor it doesn't take a math teacher to figure out that coyotes never stop pursuing "big game" 24/7, 365 days a year, whereas hunters pursue for less than 3 months total time per year.

Having said that SS, the crayon that says "red" on it in the box, is really red.


"Surviving and Thriving
Even so, deer and other prey species evolved alongside predators like bears, wolves and coyotes. And given large areas of good habitat, they thrive despite them. Surviving starts with “predator swamping,” which refers to the fact that deer, moose, pronghorns and other prey drop their young about the same time, thus “swamping” the landscape with more fast-growing prey than predators can target while fawns and calves are most vulnerable.
Some unique situations, however, can leave pronghorns—and mule deer, to a lesser extent—vulnerable. Jim Heffelfinger, a wildlife science coordinator for the Arizona Game and Fish Department and research scientist at the University of Arizona, said small, isolated pronghorn herds in a valley between mountain ranges could “blink out” from sustained predation. To prevent it, the wildlife agency sometimes conducts aerial coyote shoots, which are most effective in wet years.
Still, even if we believe coyotes can drive deer herds to unhuntable levels, can we do anything to permanently remove or neutralize this native predator, which many hunters deem a four-legged poacher?"


"In yet another study, Sarah Saalfeld[7], a student of Auburn University, under the direction of Dr. Stephen Dithckoff, found coyotes impacted deer in an urban environment the same as in the wild, contradictory to the expectation that cars would be the highest cause of mortality. Coyotes killed 67% of the fawns in an urban environment just as in rural environments.
It appears coyotes negatively influence deer populations. The elimination of coyotes have been known to double the survival of fawns. The removal of predators, especially coyotes can significantly increase the deer population."

I can find this crap all day long and so can you......
 

Cooper

Very Active Member
Messages
1,274
Show me where coyotes take more big game than all other methods combined. You can’t. Because it’s total BS.

I never said coyotes don’t kill fawns. But your statement is total BS and the fact you represent the MDF in any capacity and type misinformation is disappointing.

And you didn’t even limit it to fawns. You say big game. Good grief. I know you can’t possibly believe that!

please please prove me wrong. Coyotes take more big game than all others combined. Hahahahaha hahahahaha
SS is so full of crap, don’t argue with him or he will send you bbc pics, dudes a clown
 

slamdunk

Moderator
Messages
7,526
@slamdunk still waiting for you to show where coyotes “they take more big game than everything else combined, including hunters”

well slammy let’s see it?
I do not owe you a detailed scientific explanation on my "personal statement", It wasn't used as a statement or assessment from the MDF in any way shape or form.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
2,136
I do not owe you a detailed scientific explanation on my "personal statement", It wasn't used as a statement or assessment from the MDF in any way shape or form.
Gotcha. So now it’s a personal statement. What happened to all the studies you said have been done?

If you want to shoot some coyotes and think it helps the deer population go for it. It’s a feel good measure for sure.
 

Cooper

Very Active Member
Messages
1,274
@ Slightly Maybe he read it the same place where you read that most of the wildlife violations shed hunting were non residents
 
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slamdunk

Moderator
Messages
7,526
Gotcha. So now it’s a personal statement. What happened to all the studies you said have been done?

If you want to shoot some coyotes and think it helps the deer population go for it. It’s a feel good measure for sure.
It was a personal statement all along SS, I never once stated I was representing MDF on it.....ever.
I Googled two articles for you since you are so overly busy, it took less than 5 minutes and they were both right at the top of my search.....I'm sure you can find something 😁

And yes I agree killing coyotes with guns doesn't even put a dent in them, which is why if you'd have paid attention, I clearly stated a FACT that they used to poison them to keep numbers very low to aid in overall deer numbers, but the dying eagles eating all the dead dogs put at end to that and now we have an over population of coyotes......FACT.

Now we are finished with this.....move along.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
2,136
It was a personal statement all along SS, I never once stated I was representing MDF on it.....ever.
I Googled two articles for you since you are so overly busy, it took less than 5 minutes and they were both right at the top of my search.....I'm sure you can find something 😁

And yes I agree killing coyotes with guns doesn't even put a dent in them, which is why if you'd have paid attention, I clearly stated a FACT that they used to poison them to keep numbers very low to aid in overall deer numbers, but the dying eagles eating all the dead dogs put at end to that and now we have an over population of coyotes......FACT.

Now we are finished with this.....move along.
Ah but you said there’s been thousands of studies done that proved what you now claim is your personal statement.

So....where are they? 😂😂😂

As far as the MDF you represent them whether you like to or not when you promote and are as involved as you are. MDF needs some open minded people, they would be doing a lot better if so but yeah....coyotes! That’s our problem for the mule deer. 😂😂😂
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
2,136
Don't ask others to do your own research. If you don't buy it then look into it. It'll take about ten seconds to find more than you care to read.
Actually @deadibob Ive spent some time looking and I can’t find anywhere where there’s any research that’s been done that “coyotes take more big game than all others combined, including hunters”

So please bob show me. If it only takes 10 secs please please take your time to show me it. But you will not find it, because it’s not true.....
 

Cooper

Very Active Member
Messages
1,274
It’s weird cause I looked for an article that ss said that he found about non residents and it didn’t seem to exist 🧐, cmon and look it up, sure more non residents would like to read it also
 

slamdunk

Moderator
Messages
7,526
It’s weird cause I looked for an article that ss said that he found about non residents and it didn’t seem to exist 🧐, cmon and look it up, sure more non residents would like to read it also
Double standards shouldn't surprise any of us......🤭
 

Cooper

Very Active Member
Messages
1,274
Ah but you said there’s been thousands of studies done that proved what you now claim is your personal statement.

So....where are they? 😂😂😂

As far as the MDF you represent them whether you like to or not when you promote and are as involved as you are. MDF needs some open minded people, they would be doing a lot better if so but yeah....coyotes! That’s our problem for the mule deer. 😂😂😂
Uhhh yea the coyotes are a hell of a problem, cmon your smarter than that, I read your post about region G, you know your stuff 🍺
 

Berg

Member
Messages
28
I started this tread and then went back down on the deer hunt on Thousand Lake. A quarter mile from camp i came upon this scene right at the edge of the main gravel road. This doe got dragged down and completely devoured during the night by a pack of coyotes just past Riley Spring. Two different situations on the same mountain. Pretty rare to come upon both.
doe.jpg
 

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