CPW can suck it! Total BS!!!

[elks96]

I am not sure how it happened? Or how it flew under the radar. Last night as we dropped my dads buck at the packers there was a pile of mule deer doe.

Not many years back we had a massive fight with the CPW. We argued that there should not be any doe hunting at all if the herd was below objective. There were several contentious meetings and the final outcome was doe tags were cut way back in most of the state and in the NW.

So last night I was not sure what to say when we pulled up and there were 16 doe at the packers.

Came home checked.

For unit 22 they offered 500 doe tags between second and 3rd season. For units 11/211/23 etc. 500 doe tags between the 2 seasons.

I knew the CPW was trying to kill off all the bucks in the NW for CWD, but really never found anyplace where they were going increase the doe mule deer harvest.

In the areas I mentioned they offered 25 times more doe tags than normal this year..

 

[elks96]

Also, PRivate land only tags for the area which are either sex tags, jumped to over 1700 tags… up from around 600 traditionally.

So if people decided just to shoot doe in this case units 11,12, 23 and 22 could see over 3,000 doe killed. Luckily that will not be happening, but given the low deer numbers and the struggles our deer face, why are we hunting doe at all?

 

[Bluehair]

Good question. I sure hope someone doesn’t say it’s to maintain the higher buck:doe ratio.

 

[Weiserbucks]

I hunted 11 in 2019 and saw many does taken. Sounds like its only getting worse and based on what I saw I'll likely never set foot there again.

 

[WoodsD9]

I'm seeing the same thing where i'm at. Deer numbers are down significantly and it seems like every guy I talk to is just trying to fill his doe tag!

 

[tailchasers]

Saw a doe laying in the back of a truck in there today. We were WTF!! even called few friends to dig into the details and sure as chit there it was. ***** CPW. I cannot believe what they are doing particularly when numbers are already way down. Azzhats

 

[JakeH]

I watched two a$$ wagons shoot a fawn today. Thing died less than 100 yards from a county road, they then proceeded to pack it over 800 yards across a big ass draw to there truck. Lol

That's the type of people shooting does. Not smart enough to drive the truck around and pack it 75 yards lol

 

[elks96]

So more absolute bullshit from the state…

Unit 3 over 600 total deer tags in the unit 2nd and 3rd .

Unit 4 over 600 doe tags.

I will do the math, but that is insane for NW Colorado

This is beyond criminal. A slap
In the face to all of us who have worked on the round table.

 

[elks96]

Just ran the numbers...

7,770 either sex and doe only tags for NW Colorado. A herd that has been under objective for nearly 2 decades. Looking at the DAU goals they say this is in response to nutrition and CWD. Which maybe true, but their own studies and data do not support the moves. For example in unit 22 where they went from 20 doe tags to 500, the deer have really low CWD numbers and winter kill according to studies, nutrition is not not a mortality issue until there is severe winters when the nutrition is there just out of reach due to extreme snow conditions.

 

[MrDoe]

CPW is proposing creating doe tag hunt codes for Unit 54 now too. Kill em all I guess.

 

[Bluehair]

Yeah….and now the rest of them probably have COVID. Can’t wait to see the mob driven bureaucratic response to that.

 

[bodhi]

Hunted second season unit 22. Couldn't believe how many doe hunters we ran into. and yes, they were whacking and stacking.

First, I don't think doe should be killed when a state is under their targeted population objective, second, the state should recognize that buck tags are taking a decade or more to get and hunting the same season as doe hunters does not make for a good experience. I literally had a truck of doe hunters stop at the top of the ridge as I was setting up for a shot. they didn't do this on purpose as the couldn't see where we were but they got out, slammed truck doors, and were talking. I didn't get the shot off before the deer bolted and it cost me a very nice 4x4.

Unimaginable how they could have a doe season in CO.

B

 

[k22hornet]

Follow the money.

More tags, more 'revenue' to keep Parks afloat.

 

[BeanMan]

B list doe tags in 41, it doesn’t get much dumber than that.

 

[tailchasers]

Great way to reduce hunter numbers. "They" progress with their agenda. Terrible dumb.

 

[DeerHunter53]

One way to stop it is buy up the doe tags and not hunt. Buy as many as you can and save the herd. CPW won't do it so take a page out of the Anti-hunters book as they buy tags to save animals. We can do the same make it a movement and screw with their agenda

 

[Bluehair]

One way to stop it is buy up the doe tags and not hunt. Buy as many as you can and save the herd. CPW won't do it so take a page out of the Anti-hunters book as they buy tags to save animals. We can do the same make it a movement and screw with their agenda

That’s what I do with my buck tags?

 

[Kayak_to_hunt]

As Doe points out it is not only in the NW this is happening or they added doe tags other places.

Add in the moving of the seasons back while loosing basically a week of archery and yea the CPW is acting like they have a war on deer…

Where I have been the added tags is resulting in more powder getting burnt for sure. I think quite a few folks knew this year would be a slaughter and even w the warm temperatures it is living up to expectations.

 

[Bluehair]

In my hood, they have taken all the decent bucks and started piling up the dinks in the last couple days.

 

[elkassassin]

They're Following The PISS POOR Management of TARDville!

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!

 

[elks96]

One way to stop it is buy up the doe tags and not hunt. Buy as many as you can and save the herd. CPW won't do it so take a page out of the Anti-hunters book as they buy tags to save animals. We can do the same make it a movement and screw with their agenda

They prevented this by making all the doe tags A list. Meaning you could only buy one if you don’t have a buck tag. So the only guy using the doe tags were guys without a buck tag anyways. I agree with the idea, but as an A lost tag it is a full price nonresident tag and no matter what you only get 1

 

[tailchasers]

All part of the agenda to eliminate or drastically reduce big game hunting. In Colorado, hunting does not = "their" definition of recreation.

 

[Bluehair]

I’m afraid you might be right.

 

[ColoradoBob]

It's all about the money-----it always is. Besides the wolves will get them all in a couple years.

 

[Deercy]

There are sure a lot of doe harvest pics on the I hunt colorado Facebook page.

 

[elkassassin]

Doe Shooters Are Proud Huh?

WAFJ!

 

[elkassassin]

I Use to Give Colorado Credit For Managing Mule Deer the way they use to!

That's been several years ago when somebody Cared!

At This Rate,If It Keeps Going You Can Kiss any Quality Good Bye!

 

[elks96]

SO I have dug and spoke with the researcher I know well. He came right out and said no where does the science prove killing off the doe helps the CWD rates unless you almost completely deplete the resource.

I also got my hands on the research paper produced showing that nutrition is not an issue in 22.

In his words the theory on reducing the bucks age is the bucks are the most likely to contract and spread. Mature bucks end up with the highest infection rates thus reducing the number of mature bucks will decrease the infection rate. In his words this theory needs to be tested... But he also said it is unacceptable to kill off mass numbers of doe...

 

[BLooDTRaCKeR]

Huh….Sounds like all the Brandon voters are hunting Doe in Colotardo….

 

[DH56]

Were in the "kill everything mode" with some. That only will deplete future resources. If people think they are bad now, wait a few more years of whacking and stacking.

 

[ColoradoOak]

Since license numbers were set in 2020, CPW has approved a new herd management plan for the White River herd (units 11, 211, 12, 13, 131, 231, 22, 23, 24). The old population objective for this herd was 67,500 deer. At the time of plan approval the population was estimated at 36,000. The new objective in the approved plan is 25,000-35,000. The modeled buck:doe ratio was 30:100 when the plan was approved, and the new objective is 18-25:100.

I hope that everyone who doesn't want a bunch of does whacked in order to get the population down to 30,000 in these units stood in front of the Wildlife Commission last year when they were considering approval of this plan and yelled it out at the top of their lungs. These decisions are not made in a vacuum, and everyone has the opportunity to participate in the process.

 

[k22hornet]

"The old population objective for this herd was 67,500 deer. At the time of plan approval the population was estimated at 36,000. The new objective in the approved plan is 25,000-35,000."

So, is the CPW moving the goalposts?

 

[elks96]

"The old population objective for this herd was 67,500 deer. At the time of plan approval the population was estimated at 36,000. The new objective in the approved plan is 25,000-35,000."

So, is the CPW moving the goalposts?

Sad part is I never heard of this move. I am about as informed as a guy can be. I know several outfitters in the area and no one I know was aware of this move. I have no idea why they feel we only want 30,000 deer or why they would be acceptable.

No one I knew in the area said this was known. People who live in the communities…

 

[ColoradoOak]

Just noticed this was already discussed on Bowsite. But yes, the goalposts almost always move when a new HMP is approved. Wildlife doesn't live in a vacuum either, and all the things associated with a growing human population in the state affect them: more cars, more winter range development, more recreationists at all times of the year, more dogs, etc.

Below is a copy and paste of another example I wrote somewhere else a while back that shows ever-shifting goalposts and the fact that we will soon be left with very little. My commentary was focused on impacts of development around ski areas, which is why I mentioned them.
*********************************

A new herd management plan for the D8 deer herd was approved in November 2020, which includes the Vail and Beaver Creek ski resorts. The population objective for most of the 1980s was 26,000 but was lowered to 21,000 in 1988. The 2009 herd management plan reduced the population objective again, to 13,500-16,500 due to "loss of habitat, particularly winter range."

The new plan approved last November reduced the population objective again, to 10,000-14,000 because "the cumulative impacts of decades of human population growth and the direct and indirect impacts of human activities have continued to diminish both the quality and quantity of habitat and its carrying capacity for deer."

We have lost 50% of the carrying capacity of this area in 35 years. What's it going to look like 35 years from now?

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Hunted a couple of those units 3rd season and was not impressed with what we seen the whole season, it was tuff but We did manage to dig up 1 decent buck. Thanks to @elks96 for some insight to the area it was pretty easy to cover some ground on foot and side by side, sounds just like a short 2 yrs ago the hunting was better than it is today!! 2 yrs is not very long to ruin an area!! ??‍

 

[tailchasers]

Thanks for sharing ColoradoOak. Really appreciate it.

Last year I visited with CPW where they indicated that obtaining herd objectives was not achievable, nor was the buck:doe ratio. They went on to say in order to achieve the objectives they need to remove does to obtain the proper buck:doe ratio and lower herd numbers. Seems they move the goal post to so they can stay in the graces of the numbers game as opposed to doing positive improvement to enhance a big game herds. Just playing with numbers and reducing hunter opportunities. How many acres of habitat enhancements have CPW been a leader with in these GMU management areas? Hiw many projects? I work with CPW almost daily and have noticed fundamental changes in how they conduct business and manage fish and wildlife. It's not for the traditional sportperson anymore. Look at the organizational leadship. It's all loaded with environmentalist.

You are right where CPW gave the public an opportunity to speak up. Then I have learned the state does this based upon mandated procedure not necessarily truly seeking public input. The states mind is already made up by the time they open up for public comment. This tactic is prevalent throughout the states agencies. The more I continue to work with the DNR and state the less faith I have oin their transparency questioning their true underlying motives.

 

[oldmossback]

Hunted a couple of those units 3rd season and was not impressed with what we seen the whole season, it was tuff but We did manage to dig up 1 decent buck. Thanks to @elks96 for some insight to the area it was pretty easy to cover some ground on foot and side by side, sounds just like a short 2 yrs ago the hunting was better than it is today!! 2 yrs is not very long to ruin an area!! ??‍

How did your hunt go?

 

[ColoradoOak]

You are right where CPW gave the public an opportunity to speak up. Then I have learned the state does this based upon mandated procedure not necessarily truly seeking public input. The states mind is already made up by the time they open up for public comment. This tactic is prevalent throughout the states agencies. The more I continue to work with the DNR and state the less faith I have oin their transparency questioning their true underlying motives.

I understand your frustration, and agree on some levels that it can be very difficult or impossible to effect changes as a single person. Hunters in the Gunnison Basin have been effective at working with CPW staff on issues such as this, and have been successful in getting some of the changes they desire. But it's through long-term relationship building and engagement from a large group of sportsmen. I'm sure @Tomichi could speak more accurately about that. I would recommend not starting the conversation with, "CPW can suck it" though.

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

How did your hunt go?

We ended up tagging out, I took one on the 3rd day and buddy ended up waiting till the last day!! Ends up mine was the biggest buck we would see for the whole season, quite the experience, never seen so many huge camps in one unit.

 

[Bluehair]

Can someone please explain to me why there is a target buck:doe ratio.

Is it because in a perfect world where the range is at carrying capacity, the bucks compete with the does? (For extra credit, point me to where game species have overgrazed our landscape)

My next question would be why it is so low at 18-25 (50% lower than the previous magic number!). Is it because our bucks can’t count above 6? Maybe does make better woof food or the bucks turn cannibalistic or something?

Anyway, killing females because we have too few bucks (!) just seems stupid to me, and no number of phony public comment sessions will change my mind.

It appears Leslie Knope really is running things.

 

[nocwalker]

Yikes!!