CPW Tag allocation survey/ Landowner tags

hunthayden

Member
Messages
9
CPW is asking folks to complete a survey about tag allocations and draw systems. Encourage everyone to make there voices heard and volunteer to be a panel/attended public meeting.

While thinking about this I looked at some draw recaps for last year. I come across some interesting numbers.

Private landowners in unit 201 got 18% of the early rifle tags for elk allocated. Only 3.4% of the unit is private land. Same goes for unit 2 early rifle elk tags with 8% of the unit is private land.

Does not seem like a fair allocation of the resource. Landowners get points to draw the tags but it took them only four points to draw a tag. While it takes a public hunter 28-30 points.

I would be ok with the private landowners getting their 20% allocation if the unit has 20% private lands.

Just something to think about.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,119
There's a bunch more CPW is looking at doing including more draw tags and less OTC tags. Be watching, reading, and commenting.
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
Messages
2,807
CPW is asking folks to complete a survey about tag allocations and draw systems. Encourage everyone to make there voices heard and volunteer to be a panel/attended public meeting.

While thinking about this I looked at some draw recaps for last year. I come across some interesting numbers.

Private landowners in unit 201 got 18% of the early rifle tags for elk allocated. Only 3.4% of the unit is private land. Same goes for unit 2 early rifle elk tags with 8% of the unit is private land.

Does not seem like a fair allocation of the resource. Landowners get points to draw the tags but it took them only four points to draw a tag. While it takes a public hunter 28-30 points.

I would be ok with the private landowners getting their 20% allocation if the unit has 20% private lands.

Just something to think about.
Just curious, are they including the giant tracts if state land that are leased to the private land owners? I know both of those units have a ton of state land that is leased out.

Even still I don't think it would cover 20% of the unit.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,677
Colorado has absolutely no chance of changing the landowner welfare and any attempt to do such has been proven in the past to only make it worse, not better.

The lowest hanging fruit for Colorado...

1. All NR tags draw only or OTC with Caps. NR Tags become unit or at least region specific in all season.

2. Move all archery tags for resident back to OTC and only limit the NR.

3. Move allocation for all draw tags without caps to 80/20 (at least)

4. Eliminate the points system entirely for Elk, Deer, Lopes, Bear, Turkey and move to a truly random allocation. Using current point holders points as a bonus system until the system is purged of all points.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
“All NR tags draw only or OTC with Caps. “NR Tags become unit or at least region specific in all season.”

As a NR, I can live with this. I would welcome unit specific tags as well.

My first choice would be draw only for all hunters for elk (res and NR) which would make it unit or area specific. Then whatever limits they place on NR would be set in stone for a given area. If you ever get that, then you could chip away on the NR allocation.
 

DW

Long Time Member
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14,273
It's a 100 million dollar golden egg layin goose. I don't expect them to be sharpening the axe anytime soon.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
Yep, the price difference and pure numbers of NR tags is so much money, they won’t be cutting our allocation anytime soon. However going to all draw would be the beginning step.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
It is called the “parks and wildlife”. Please tell me what other activities that pertain to P@W that people will pay for that equals license revenue.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,119
Our governor has already shown his colors and lack of need for other dollars Look at what he's done to ranching, traditional ag, oil and gas, small conservative towns, gun component manufacturing, etc. It's not about the dollars to him and his followers its their feelings and independent morality. He'll make up something new to make up for it at the expense of generations of local customs and cultures.
 

oldmossback

Moderator
Messages
837
Our governor has already shown his colors and lack of need for other dollars Look at what he's done to ranching, traditional ag, oil and gas, small conservative towns, gun component manufacturing, etc. It's not about the dollars to him and his followers its their feelings and independent morality. He'll make up something new to make up for it at the expense of generations of local customs and cultures.
Hopefully he will be gone next election! fingers crossed !
 

Deercy

Member
Messages
32
I don't understand the dislike you constantly bring up about preference points, elks96. I hunt with fistsfull of tags every year. And my kids. And my wife. And I can predict hunts years ahead. Got a buddy who lives in a state with random draw. His pet hunt has near 100 percent odds. And guess who hasn't hunted it for 4 years. Each to his own.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,677
I don't understand the dislike you constantly bring up about preference points, elks96. I hunt with fistsfull of tags every year. And my kids. And my wife. And I can predict hunts years ahead. Got a buddy who lives in a state with random draw. His pet hunt has near 100 percent odds. And guess who hasn't hunted it for 4 years. Each to his own.
because there is only one end result to PP. No matter how you cut it at some point you will not draw a tag. Sorry, but give it time. Eventually even your handful of low quality tags will turn into no opportunity at all for you. Sorry but when you look at it will lead to you have no chance. Units that used to have 100 left over tags are now taking 1-2 points, units that used to take 1-2 are taking 3-5. Right now my 11 year old son to hunt our home unit that was once a 0-1 point draw will not have a chance to draw until his senior year. Or if we go for a lesser draw, he can hunt a few times but even then eventually his every year tag will turn into 2 year, then to 4, etc.

The best system that truly provides the fairest opportunity to all is the random draw. Resident point creep is lower but still exist. Look at NR numbers to see the future of all tags.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
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4,119
because there is only one end result to PP. No matter how you cut it at some point you will not draw a tag. Sorry, but give it time. Eventually even your handful of low quality tags will turn into no opportunity at all for you. Sorry but when you look at it will lead to you have no chance. Units that used to have 100 left over tags are now taking 1-2 points, units that used to take 1-2 are taking 3-5. Right now my 11 year old son to hunt our home unit that was once a 0-1 point draw will not have a chance to draw until his senior year. Or if we go for a lesser draw, he can hunt a few times but even then eventually his every year tag will turn into 2 year, then to 4, etc.

The best system that truly provides the fairest opportunity to all is the random draw. Resident point creep is lower but still exist. Look at NR numbers to see the future of all tags.

Elks example is correct. I would also refer to the Wyoming Non-Resident point system.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
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2,677
Still the same amount of tags given out. Same people applying. Just not evenly distributed. Sorry. Not convinced. Keep trying though.
Just give it time. Not my fault you lack the ability to think critically about the long term. It is pretty simple, PP create artificial tag demand, they create point creep and at some point that will come back to bite us all in the rear end.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
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2,677
Elks example is correct. I would also refer to the Wyoming Non-Resident point system.
Sad to think, many units will eventually be about who was able to live the longest... You can take pretty much any draw and see a pattern. Hell cow elk licenses in December were once left over B list tags that were an after thought. Same tags now are taking 2-3 points for a cow tag.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
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2,677
Still the same amount of tags given out. Same people applying. Just not evenly distributed. Sorry. Not convinced. Keep trying though.
No it is not... The number of tags might be the same but with points you get people who apply because points makes not applying too costly. With the random draw you will see people shift around a lot more and be willing to try different things. But with points people don't stop applying, they don't change. The other issue is you get all sorts of people playing points that never would apply every year. There are piles of people that build points with no plan or no specific hunt in mind. They build points because "someday" I might hunt Colorado or Might hunt WY... The result is inflation in demand. Take those people out and let those who truly want to hunt every year and apply every year and odds go up.
 

DW

Long Time Member
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14,273
If those people are just applying for points and never apply for a tag they have no impact on other applicants.
 

Deercy

Member
Messages
32
Truth. I am a shortsighted idiot. You are so smart. But how I hunt every year in nonpremium units and have my next five years planned very carefully is truly a miracle.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,397
No it is not... The number of tags might be the same but with points you get people who apply because points makes not applying too costly. With the random draw you will see people shift around a lot more and be willing to try different things. But with points people don't stop applying, they don't change. The other issue is you get all sorts of people playing points that never would apply every year. There are piles of people that build points with no plan or no specific hunt in mind. They build points because "someday" I might hunt Colorado or Might hunt WY... The result is inflation in demand. Take those people out and let those who truly want to hunt every year and apply every year and odds go up.
Yep, but I apply to Utah every year and after 20 years: no tags drawn. SO YOUR SAYING THERES A CHANCE?!?

Best thing Colorado can do is make all elk tags drawing only.
 

SS!

Long Time Member
Messages
3,842
Thanx for showing the class how out of touch you are.
Thanks for taking a topic about elk and switching to moose since you were called out on your BS. Please show where wolves are the number one reason for the decline of moose in WY. Thanks. Also please share why moose have declined back east where there are no wolves. Oh wait but CO moose are doing so great! Well introduced species often do great where they are not native 😂😂😂. Go hunt Texas since you like exotics so much!

Boo hoo! The big bad wolf is coming to Colorado and the sky is going to fall!
 

DW

Long Time Member
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14,273
Thanks for taking a topic about elk and switching to moose since you were called out on your BS. Please show where wolves are the number one reason for the decline of moose in WY. Thanks. Also please share why moose have declined back east where there are no wolves. Oh wait but CO moose are doing so great! Well introduced species often do great where they are not native 😂😂😂. Go hunt Texas since you like exotics so much!

Boo hoo! The big bad wolf is coming to Colorado and the sky is going to fall!

The topic was tag allocations in Colorado and a survey for the public.. But cool story bruh!
 

DW

Long Time Member
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14,273
Was this a 12 pack ago?

Screenshot_20211027-205915_Chrome.jpg
 

brooktrout

Member
Messages
14
eliminate all OTC tags, this would help with the preference point issue, it will not cure the problem but would help.
Going draw on all tags does not necessarily mean reduction in tag numbers. A lot of areas need reductions because of other states lowering non res #'s and those hunters coming to Colorado. Some areas could have high tag numbers equal to otc tag numbers
Give control to the local or regional biologists as our state is very diverse in terrain type, access and elevation and one size does not fit all. manage the herd biologically.
Colorados population continues to grow at a rapid pace, we have a limited resource with unlimited demand.
Give the regional or local biologists the option of making third season 9 days and eliminating fourth. You can sell just as many tags in three seasons as you can in 4.
Give residents priority on reissue tags, at a min change 65/35 to 70/30
 

BeDawg

Active Member
Messages
520
Y
Just give it time. Not my fault you lack the ability to think critically about the long term. It is pretty simple, PP create artificial tag demand, they create point creep and at some point that will come back to bite us all in the rear end.
Yea. Just look at how much greater the NM draw odds are becoming each year!
 

SanJuanSlayer

Active Member
Messages
266
Cap OTC tags for nonresidents to 20% of current sales. This would reduce hunting pressure by about 40% which would make for some good hunting.

Change all draw quotas to 90/10 but don't add those tags that would have been issued to non residents back into the quota. Let our herds recover a bit while allowing residents to actually have preference like every other western state.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,397
Cap OTC tags for nonresidents to 20% of current sales. This would reduce hunting pressure by about 40% which would make for some good hunting.

Change all draw quotas to 90/10 but don't add those tags that would have been issued to non residents back into the quota. Let our herds recover a bit while allowing residents to actually have preference like every other western state.
Good luck with those ideas. Like it or not, because you have allowed NRs to produce such a big chuck of the CPW income, you won’t get your wish. Did you hear the part about revenue neutral? Or are you ready for tripling your tag costs?
 

SanJuanSlayer

Active Member
Messages
266
Good luck with those ideas. Like it or not, because you have allowed NRs to produce such a big chuck of the CPW income, you won’t get your wish. Did you hear the part about revenue neutral? Or are you ready for tripling your tag costs?
I didn't allow anything. If it had been up to me CPW never would have gotten addicted to the non res cash, but the fox is guarding the hen house. That doesn't change the fact that my ideas could easily be implemented if CPW wasn't so bloated and Chickenlooper hadn't handed Colorado sportsmen the bill for a failing parks system. Besides that I'd be more than happy to pay triple for an OTC elk tag with similar quality to a Wyoming general.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
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4,119
At some point "Colorado Parks" will equate or exceed directly and indirectly the same revenue from hunting. Polis wants several more state parks and greater outdoor recreation just not as intense shooting spots.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
Good luck with those ideas. Like it or not, because you have allowed NRs to produce such a big chuck of the CPW income, you won’t get your wish. Did you hear the part about revenue neutral? Or are you ready for tripling your tag costs?
You could go 80/20 across the board and adjust the prices on both sides and easily be revenue neutral. This would not triple resident tag costs. Non residents tag could easily go to 1,000-1,200 and be inline with other western states.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
I'd pay $160 for an elk tag if it came with a 40% reduction in pressure.
I would too if I were a resident. But 80% plus residents wouldn’t. I don’t blame you for trying, but it’s not gonna happen. Not anytime soon.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,397
You could go 80/20 across the board and adjust the prices on both sides and easily be revenue neutral. This would not triple resident tag costs. Non residents tag could easily go to 1,000-1,200 and be inline with other western states.
Please tell me any other state that charges that much for a license that has as low of a success rate. You would not sell enough tags at those prices to remain revenue neutral. Would prob switch to Montana if they went up that high. Yes, I can afford that much. No problem. But return on investment for that much doesn’t make sense in CO. I am 3 for 3 in Montana on public
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
I didn't allow anything. If it had been up to me CPW never would have gotten addicted to the non res cash, but the fox is guarding the hen house. That doesn't change the fact that my ideas could easily be implemented if CPW wasn't so bloated and Chickenlooper hadn't handed Colorado sportsmen the bill for a failing parks system. Besides that I'd be more than happy to pay triple for an OTC elk tag with similar quality to a Wyoming general.I would be happy to pay more if I were a resident.
You may not have but most residents applauded every NR price hike. Now it has come back to bite them. Like you, if I were a resident I would gladly pay triple. But that won’t happen currently because most wouldnt. And you, me, and ever taxpayer would like to “unbloat” govt agencies. I haven’t had any success there. How about you?

Don’t get me wrong, because, as a fellow hunter: “I feel your pain”. And don’t disagree that you have some good ideas. I am just stating what will happen under current circumstances.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
Please tell me any other state that charges that much for a license that has as low of a success rate. You would not sell enough tags at those prices to remain revenue neutral. Would prob switch to Montana if they went up that high. Yes, I can afford that much. No problem. But return on investment for that much doesn’t make sense in CO. I am 3 for 3 in Montana on public
That's one of the problems Colorado has run their elk management into the ground so the return on investment probably isn't there. The success rates on Montana general aren't that much higher then Colorado are they? Wyoming general success isn't that much better I know Utah OTC is worse.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
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4,119
Colorado is not Texas and our governor, house, Senate, and DNR boards could give 2 chits about the losses to revenue from hunting license sales. I know that is hard to fathom but it is very real in Colorado. Hunting a type of recreation they would like ro see go away. We are not a right to hunt state either in true context.
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
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2,807
I would too if I were a resident. But 80% plus residents wouldn’t. I don’t blame you for trying, but it’s not gonna happen. Not anytime soon.
🤣😂🤣😂 did you see the b!cthing and complaining when they raised the resident price by $7 last year? They would have a melt down and riots if they raised it to $160 lol these guys are in lala land.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
OTC is not sustainable that part shouldn't be debated. 80/20 across the board would make the most sense. With price adjustment on both sides, plus a probable increase on the cost of a qualifying license residents would still be paying under 100 dollars for an elk tag.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
You could go 80/20 across the board and adjust the prices on both sides and easily be revenue neutral. This would not triple resident tag costs. Non residents tag could easily go to 1,000-1,200 and be inline with other western states.
The fact that you think it would be OK for them to charge us $1000-$1200 for an elk tag just makes me shake my head. Not much understanding of fellow hunters in that. And makes us adversaries instead of allies. It doesn’t have to be that way.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
The fact that you think it would be OK for them to charge us $1000-$1200 for an elk tag just makes me shake my head. Not much understanding of fellow hunters in that. And makes us adversaries instead of allies. It doesn’t have to be that way.
So you don't apply to any western state that charges that much for an elk tag for non residents?
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
Only other state I apply for currently is Utah ($1000). That is a 50% plus harvest success rate and a once in a lifetime tag with a decent chance of a trophy. Not an apples to apples comparison

I have hunted Montana in the past (currently $1052) with an elk/deer combo license. Not apples to apples either when you consider the deer tag is included. Also, consider you can bow hunt archery season, then come back and hunt rifle if you aren’t successful with a bow. As someone about to retire, that does hold some appeal, esp since I am 100% in 3 previous hunts.

When you say you favor 80/20 licenses I can see a valid point of view. I think that is a little too restrictive, but am not strongly opposed, because I can put myself in your place. But I bring up the fact that it can’t be done with current financing of CPW.

In fact, if I could hunt every other year but have noticeably better quality hunts, that is something I would support. What I can never support is someone who says: “raise NR prices to $1200 so I (res) can have better hunting”. That mimics where the rest of our society seems to be headed: I want something, but I want someone else to pay for it.
 
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SanJuanSlayer

Active Member
Messages
266
Only other state I apply for currently is Utah ($1000). That is a 50% plus harvest success rate and a once in a lifetime tag with a decent chance of a trophy. Not an apples to apples comparison

I have hunted Montana in the past (currently $1052) with an elk/deer combo license. Not apples to apples either when you consider the deer tag is included. Also, consider you can bow hunt archery season, then come back and hunt rifle if you aren’t successful with a bow. As someone about to retire, that does hold some appeal, esp since I am 100% in 3 previous hunts.

When you say you favor 80/20 licenses I can see a valid point of view. I think that is a little too restrictive, but am not strongly opposed, because I can put myself in your place. But I bring up the fact that it can’t be done with current financing of CPW.

In fact, if I could hunt every other year but have noticeably better quality hunts, that is something I would support. What I can never support is someone who says: “raise NR prices to $1200 so I (res) can have better hunting”. That mimics where the rest of our society seems to be headed: I want something, but I want someone else to pay for it.
How is 80/20 too restrictive? Nine of eleven western states are at 90/10 or less and Wyoming will likely go to 90/10 soon. 80/20 is generous.

The game of Colorado is owned by the residents, so raising non resident prices doesn't mimic the entitlement culture that is so pervasive in our country. Expecting us to sell you our game at a discount does though. You want what others own and you don't want to pay for it.

Howling about the budget also mirrors liberal thinking, there is never enough government money. Every other western game agency operates on a fraction of CPW's budget yet you expect us to believe we have to pimp out our game to non residents or our management will fail.
 

Conrad8899

Active Member
Messages
162
Colorado should take care of its game recourses first and for most residents second nonresidents third if I was a resident of Colorado I would be hoping for all elk tags go to LQ 90/10 split no less than 80/20. All reissue tags would go to residents first on Wednesday what ever is leftover would be up for grabs to nonresidents on Thursday... Lets take care of point creep U draw a tag,bye a land owner tag or pick up a reissue tag and U have points they will used and gone...
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
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2,807
🤣😂🤣😂 did you see the b!cthing and complaining when they raised the resident price by $7 last year? They would have a melt down and riots if they raised it to $160 lol these guys are in lala land.
Colorado should take care of its game recourses first and for most residents second nonresidents third if I was a resident of Colorado I would be hoping for all elk tags go to LQ 90/10 split no less than 80/20. All reissue tags would go to residents first on Wednesday what ever is leftover would be up for grabs to nonresidents on Thursday... Lets take care of point creep U draw a tag,bye a land owner tag or pick up a reissue tag and U have points they will used and gone...
"Wahhaa waahhhaaa all reissue tags should go to residents"

I rest my case Colorado residents are cry babies.

Go ahead raise your NR tags by 50+% you already ruined the better system for returning re-issue tags. You guys are already being pushed out of the majority by all the liberal Transplants keep pushing out the people on your side.

Keep changing the rules to make it harder for regular guys to come to your state and we won't care when they make it harder for you to keep doing what you love. It's coming. And Colorado will be ground zero mark my words.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,397
How is 80/20 too restrictive? Nine of eleven western states are at 90/10 or less and Wyoming will likely go to 90/10 soon. 80/20 is generous.

The game of Colorado is owned by the residents, so raising non resident prices doesn't mimic the entitlement culture that is so pervasive in our country. Expecting us to sell you our game at a discount does though. You want what others own and you don't want to pay for it.

Howling about the budget also mirrors liberal thinking, there is never enough government money. Every other western game agency operates on a fraction of CPW's budget yet you expect us to believe we have to pimp out our game to non residents or our management will fail.
I don’t expect you to believe anything. I am just giving you facts about your agency and their budget. Keep dreaming.
 

Conrad8899

Active Member
Messages
162
"Wahhaa waahhhaaa all reissue tags should go to residents"

I rest my case Colorado residents are cry babies.

Go ahead raise your NR tags by 50+% you already ruined the better system for returning re-issue tags. You guys are already being pushed out of the majority by all the liberal Transplants keep pushing out the people on your side.

Keep changing the rules to make it harder for regular guys to come to your state and we won't care when they make it harder for you to keep doing what you love. It's coming. And Colorado will be ground zero mark my words.
I am not a resident of Colorado I am a Wyoming resident and Wyoming takes pretty good care of Us residents... Just my opinion but Colorado dose not take care of its residents at all its all about the $$$$$ Colorado is nothing but a dumping ground for all the nonresidents who do not draw a elk tag any where else... Most people say Colorado has sum of the best deer hunting why is that maybe LQ... Colorado needs to up the price on elk tags for nonresidents and residents when elk tags go to LQ 90/10 split all reissue tags go to residents first..... What ever state U reside in that State should be taken care of its residents first U live there U pay the taxes U support the economy U deserve the lions share of the tags... This bull **** just because I visit a state for two weeks and bye gas and food I deserve to be treated as a resident and get a good share of the tags is just that bull ****....
 

WoodsD9

Active Member
Messages
119
I personally feel these surveys are a joke. There is 0% chance the CPW makes an adjustment to make the majority of folks happy here so in my opinion they need to make some kind of adjustment based off their data and then have the flexibility to adjust if needed.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,119
I personally feel these surveys are a joke. There is 0% chance the CPW makes an adjustment to make the majority of folks happy here so in my opinion they need to make some kind of adjustment based off their data and then have the flexibility to adjust if needed.

As I have witnessed through several Colorado public comment processes, is the states public comment process is a public telling and notification process. The next steps are already determined. Public input is simply "checking-a-box".
 
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RRCowboyStar

Member
Messages
56
My response is that you should have to forfeit your Preference Points when you receive a Tag. Landowner, Leftover, 2nd Choice or OTC. This gives you the choice to Hunt or Collect Points.
Should stop Point Creap and reduce the Over Crowding of OTC Units.
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
Messages
2,807
My response is that you should have to forfeit your Preference Points when you receive a Tag. Landowner, Leftover, 2nd Choice or OTC. This gives you the choice to Hunt or Collect Points.
Should stop Point Creap and reduce the Over Crowding of OTC Units.
Utah did this with there cow elk tags, and general season tags about 4 years ago, if you get a tag you lose your points.... hasn't done a thing for point creep for those hunts to this point in time, at least not that I've noticed. If anything it's made the easier to draw units harder to get.
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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7,397
But Utah has extremely limited tag numbers. Colorado would be very different. I believe it would have a noticeable effect

Making all elk tags limited would be a good first step
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
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2,807
But Utah has extremely limited tag numbers. Colorado would be very different. I believe it would have a noticeable effect

Making all elk tags limited would be a good first step
Not for there general units, and cow tags.

I was talking about losing Points for any tag drawn.. utah used to let you draw a second choice and still build points for the unit/hunt you wanted Like Colorado does now.

Now you either build points or hunt a lesser unit. It has not helped point creep in the least.

Limiting the number of elk tags could be a good thing, but making people choose to build points or hunt may not have the desired results that people think it will.
 

SanJuanSlayer

Active Member
Messages
266
I don’t expect you to believe anything. I am just giving you facts about your agency and their budget. Keep dreaming.
If I'm dreaming then explain it to me. Why is Colorado the only state in the west that can't go to a 90/10 split and still survive financially?
 

WoodsD9

Active Member
Messages
119
If I'm dreaming then explain it to me. Why is Colorado the only state in the west that can't go to a 90/10 split and still survive financially?
If they keep OTC unlimited I think they could adjust to make it work but I don't see anyway they limit OTC tags, adjust the splits that much across the board and maintain their budget. That is without increasing tag costs or cutting from their budget somewhere.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,119
Living in an OTC region. Better tag management is necessary. Dam zoo out there with crazy high numbers of hunters/people.
 

alagnak

Member
Messages
8
If I'm dreaming then explain it to me. Why is Colorado the only state in the west that can't go to a 90/10 split and still survive financially?
Mostly Scale. Often, CO is compared to WY, and in that comparison we have 10X the human population, 2X+ the elk population and 3X the amount of elk tags sold (and at a significantly lower average price per tag when you factor in WY's full-price tag costs). That scale creates multipliers on the cost side: administration (IT, finance, legal, Customer service, etc), enforcement, outreach (public, landowners, businesses, county/city teams, etc), research programs, etc, etc. And that's just elk, similar multipliers apply across the other game (and nongame) fish and wildlife species.

For a more extreme example in another neighboring state, take AZ - CO sold 4.5X as many elk tags in 2020 (202,000) as the total number of elk running around AZ (total elk population in AZ is estimated at 35-45K animals).

If we get to 80/20 allocation across the board with some kind of restriction on what we now call 'OTC', I'd consider it a victory.
 

Zim

Very Active Member
Messages
2,029
Anyone know if there is any legitimate chance for NR quota reduction in 2022 or 2023? I've been deer hunting the last month and not followed up since I completed the survey in October. Has CPW done this survey in previous years? As a 25 point holder, I would stand to lose a lot by the slightest reduction. Probably a good time to burn regardless. Thx
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,119
Zim, I don't believe they will yet. The state is to busy reducing herd numbers handing out doe and buck tags prior to reducing nonresident tag numbers.
 

Zim

Very Active Member
Messages
2,029
Thanks, I know it is inevitable but thinking about 2022 applications already. I need to dump these points but now way out of elk shape thanks to Covid and foot problems.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
they are suppose to adjust units from 65/35 to 80/20 that they have been ignoring for the past ten years. I know its been discussed quite a bit but not sure if it will be implemented this year.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
BeanMan you should do some research they haven't updated those splits since 2015 because as they stated they didn't want to lose revenue from non residents losing more licenses.
 

BeanMan

Long Time Member
Messages
6,423
BeanMan you should do some research they haven't updated those splits since 2015 because as they stated they didn't want to lose revenue from non residents losing more licenses.
Page 4 of the 2021 big game brochure. Read # 1. I was incorrect in stating “units which require 5 points”. It’s actually 6 points.
924F37BA-75C1-45DB-80C2-C5EF12E7DF83.jpeg
 

WesternSky

Active Member
Messages
445
According to the previous method, the 80/20 split should be based on the preceding 3 year period so for 2022, it should be an average from 2019,20,21. They "froze" it in 2009 and haven't readjusted since. Otherwise there would be ton of hunt codes (most LE elk bull tags, half of the the 3rd and 4th buck tags) to move from 65/35 to 80/20.

In my comments on the survey, the above should be a moot point since they need to readjust all tags to 90/10 or worst case 80/20.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
874
Yes they are way behind the eight ball on this and residents have been getting screwed. It was brought up at one of the meetings in Durango and CPW admitted to dragging their feet on it and it was hinted that it was because they didn't want to lose revenue
 

hunthayden

Member
Messages
9
You also have to know that either the 20/80 or 35/65 is after the LO get their allocation up to 20%. You can assume that most LO tags go non residents in the high demand units.
 

ColoradoOak

Very Active Member
Messages
1,900
No changes for 2022. It will be 2023 at the earliest, and only if the stars align and the commission actually supports residents. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
 

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