He is still hunting... But hunting for either the same bull on the hoof, for a second chance, or for a carcass. Video on YouTube doesnt really mean all that much to me. But, hopefully there will be a part 2 of either a second chance or a recovery, to make all the professional critics happy.They really wanted a video on youtube. Even if the bull was a dink and mortally wounded, they accomplished what they set out for. Legally they can keep hunting. Ethically they shouldn't. That bull is a dead bull.
I respectfully disagree, and like I said, the end commentary was filmed before we had better and closer trail cam pics. We only got the one we posted because we left a note on the trail cam and asked the hunter to please let us know. Mistakes happen, and we don't shy away from critics. I am an Outfitter, this is hardly the first bunch of guys to talk trash on Outfitters, and it is part of the business.Appreciate you coming on here but your story now does not match up with the unethical and cavalier attitude of the commentators on the video. I suspect (my opinion only), had this thread not been here, you wouldn't be on here.
Also appreciate your service, but don't use that to sway opinions. Has zero to do with how the video played out.
StevenI respectfully disagree, and like I said, the end commentary was filmed before we had better and closer trail cam pics. We only got the one we posted because we left a note on the trail cam and asked the hunter to please let us know. Mistakes happen, and we don't shy away from critics. I am an Outfitter, this is hardly the first bunch of guys to talk trash on Outfitters, and it is part of the business.
As far as using my "service" to sway opinions, that was not the case. I was simply stating what we are about and who we are for those who only think we are here to make money off the rich.
I'll say it again, this video was filmed before we had the last trail cam pic, but I wasn't about to film a different ending, because that would be dishonest. At the time of filming, we were totally and 100% sure the bull was gonna live, and that's what we started. That all changed after the fact and I am proud of my guide for continuing on with the chase for this same bull. Hopefully we will have another video before the season end, with the same bull finally down. They are tough animals, but right now it's a chess match and we are hoping for a checkmate soon. I do appreciate your opinion, and I also appreciate everyone else's, as it shows the love of the sport and how much each one of these guys care about our wildlife. I can only hope to meet some of yall on the mountain, and I'd be honored to do so as well. If I saw my own video online, I'd be right there with y'all! But, I made a mistake for calling the outcome before all the facts, and it's a learning experience for not only me, but my guides and hopefully other hunters that watch! As soon as we get the part 2 done, I'll be sure to post a link!!
Hey man, he just has the archery tag. I understand the comment I made didnt look good, and after I watched it, I realized the whole video cuts short for some reason. About a minute later I actually reiterated on that comment, and said that he gets to keep hunting for the same bull, I am just too lazy to take the current video down and re upload the full thing haha. But, he is adamant about finding the bull dead, or to get another opportunity on him. He saw him on the hoof a few days after the video, and wasnt able to get back on him before dark. He is active duty still, and pulled some unpaid leave just so he can stay on the mountain and finish out the hunt for the bull. I fully own up to calling the outcome before we had all the facts for sure. Made me look arrogant, but it has been humbling and a learning experience, which is fine by me!Steven
I have watched some of your videos since last years with your mombull hunt. I respect your dedication and thank you for your service.
Does your guide have a multi season tag or just archery? If archery I hope he can find the bull before ending of season.
I think most people are upset with the comment made in the video “ at least you get to keep hunting”. I sincerely hope he finds the bull.
Is he a Vet? I’m all American and so is family that has served. But my family will never use that as a “get a freebie “ card. It was a profession at the time and a lifestyle they chose. Just like any other job.Appreciate you coming on here but your story now does not match up with the unethical and cavalier attitude of the commentators on the video. I suspect (my opinion only), had this thread not been here, you wouldn't be on here.
Also appreciate your service, but don't use that to sway opinions. Has zero to do with how the video played out.
Hes active duty. 18.5 years inIs he a Vet? I’m all American and so is family that has served. But my family will never use that as a “get a freebie “ card. It was a profession at the time and a lifestyle they chose. Just like any other job.
back to the video…. You would do yourself and company a service by deleting it. It overweight slob hunting.
Is he a Vet? I’m all American and so is family that has served. But my family will never use that as a “get a freebie “ card. It was a profession at the time and a lifestyle they chose. Just like any other job.
back to the video…. You would do yourself and company a service by deleting it. It overweight slob hunting.
Nah, I wont delete it. We arent Primos where we only post kill vids. We post the ups and downs. The good, bad and ugly. We will have a part 2 in the future, so until then, everyone can continue to have their professional opinions and I'll respect each one of them.Hes active duty. 18.5 years in
I appreciate your input man! I've stated in other comments that I made a mistake when I initially saw the first trail cam pic and vid. I originally thought it was higher up on his body, near the back straps. The pic on the video shows the exit wound, not the entry. I personally watched the shot and thought it looked great, but obviously it wasnt. We filmed the ending before we saw other pics of the bull. The guide that shot the bull has been searching and hunting for the same bull ever since, passing up much bigger bulls in the meantime.Hello Steven,
I commend your efforts in the initial attempt at recovery. As being the person that obviously asked the question on this forum I have a question for you, because it’s why I asked what others thought:
1- Being very familiar with anatomy, could you please explain the idea of this “no mans land” that you refer to in the video?
My personal experience is there is not a “void” in the guts, I know there is a “void” up by the shoulder……. I believe as sportsman (especially if you are a guide) it is our obligation for a ethical kill. While I understand hunting (I have made very similar mistakes) there are mistakes, I believe we need to be honest, this notion of the “void” will allow others to justify shooting multiple animals. Your video gives the impression that bull will live a long happy life and you guys will hunt another bull.
Let me address a few facts for all you that assume to know all...
I appreciate everyone's "knowledge" and I appreciate everyone of you for being experts on ethics. Heres a little insight...
The guy that shot the bull is continuing on his search for it, and refuses to kill anything else but this bull, whether he finds it alive still, or dead. When we filmed the ending of this video, we only saw 1 trail cam pic and a video on another trail cam where the bull was pretty far away, so at the time, it looked like it was a pretty high shot. Once we got the current pic, that's in the video, we concurred with what everyone else thought. May have clipped lungs, may of clipped liver. Gut shut? Possibly but unlikely due to the recovery of the arrow didnt have guts or a bad smell. But again, possible. The hunter is one of my guides, and I am the outfitter. If any of you truly knew anything about me, my outfit or my guides, would know that we dont really give a hell about "high paying clients" or "getting content". Most of us are Veterans, and I created this outfit to give Vets, LEO and First Responders a chance at going on a guided hunt, for far less than normal guided prices. I dont need my outfit to make me money.
My guide has already decided that he will notch his tag, but only after his season if he cant find the bull, or until he kills this bull. He isn't hunting for anything else, and we are hoping to have an update video or a part 2 of this bull hunt. Your opinions on the matter are opinions, and I respect every one of them. But dont get confused with how we are, how we operate, or our ethics. I'll back my guides and clients 100%, and if any of you ever have the chance to meet us or hunt with us, your "opinion" would surely change. We are a Veteran Operated Outfit, who caters to other vets and those less fortunate than most of you. If any of you want to have a discussion about this or want to run your mouths about my outfit, my name is Steven James, and you can look me up. I've been surrounded by starved wolves on many occassions, but they've always underestimated how hungry I am....
Steve,I appreciate your input man! I've stated in other comments that I made a mistake when I initially saw the first trail cam pic and vid. I originally thought it was higher up on his body, near the back straps. The pic on the video shows the exit wound, not the entry. I personally watched the shot and thought it looked great, but obviously it wasnt. We filmed the ending before we saw other pics of the bull. The guide that shot the bull has been searching and hunting for the same bull ever since, passing up much bigger bulls in the meantime.
As far as Elk anatomy, there are dead man's space, no zones, bullmuda triangles, etc. One is high above the shoulder which everyone knows. The smallest that most forget or dont know about, is a small triangle, mid body and high, right between the top back of the lungs, and right before the top of the liver. I originally thought he hit that spot, but that was until I saw the pic in the vid, which shows the exit wound clear. It was a premature callout and assumption. I've already owned up for it. At this point I don't really care what anyone thinks of my outfit or myself. Those that know me, which ain't just a few, know me alot better than the keyboardies on Monster Muleys. Ain't much more I can do than own up to what I said. My guide has proven his ethics and skills by continuing to hunt after the same bull. I guarantee there are alot more guys that would move on and shoot something else, and I've personally seen guys do it. Only reason our video is even a topic is solely because I'm an outfit. There are currently multiple videos on YouTube of almost this exact scenario, but no keyboard warriors are saying anything about that. This ain't my first time on MM. I left a couple years ago because of all the trash talk people did and still do, over petty things like road hunters, killing 2 points, horns vs antlers, etc. I invite anyone willing to come hunt with me, and opinions will differ greatly.
First of all, do not tell me what to do. You don't know me keyboard warrior. Go read some other comments that address the stupidity of your response, and then come on back and we can have an adult conversation.First of all, stop playing the Vet card, it doesn't give you a free pass. Second whoever the guy is that was the commentator doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. There is no such thing as "no man's land".
Screen your video before airing it...
Then why even bring it up? It has nothing to do with making a poor shot and abandoning the search or ending the hunt. Only reason we know they kept looking or haven't shot another animal is because you said so. Your "ambassador", on film, said that the good news is the hunter gets to keep hunting.First of all, do not tell me what to do. You don't know me keyboard warrior. Go read some other comments that address the stupidity of your response, and then come on back and we can have an adult conversation.
Go get me a beer.First of all, do not tell me what to do.
and some popcorn this is going to get goodGo get me a beer.
Go make me a sammich!!!Go get me a beer.
If you shoot and completely miss, you’re done hunting? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all week. And there’s been some really dumb things posted on MM this weekif you shoot and don't hit or get the bull with that shot you are done.
Agreed brother! MM has always had the same professional opinion hunters on it haha.If you shoot and completely miss, you’re done hunting? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all week. And there’s been some really dumb things posted on MM this week
Also, there is a no man's land shot on an elk.
Says the keyboard warrior. If you are going to post ridiculous video/commentary online, better be ready for criticism. Completely justified in this case.Agreed brother! MM has always had the same professional opinion hunters on it haha.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that people are quick to jump on the keyboard warrior stuff over a comment I made in a video, when just in the past 2 weeks there have been 4 poaching incidents, a well known person got caught baiting bears with alcohol laced watermelons, 2 people shot cattle thinking they were elk, and a californian shot a calf moose thinking it was a deer. But my premature comment I owned up to is far worse all because we are an Outfit. Peoples priorities are funny.
Guys that actually know what they are talking about jumped on your comment because it was asinine and completely and unequivocally incorrect. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are an "outfitter/guide" or a youtube warrior.Agreed brother! MM has always had the same professional opinion hunters on it haha.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that people are quick to jump on the keyboard warrior stuff over a comment I made in a video, when just in the past 2 weeks there have been 4 poaching incidents, a well known person got caught baiting bears with alcohol laced watermelons, 2 people shot cattle thinking they were elk, and a californian shot a calf moose thinking it was a deer. But my premature comment I owned up to is far worse all because we are an Outfit. Peoples priorities are funny.
Are those other incidents on youtube?Agreed brother! MM has always had the same professional opinion hunters on it haha.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that people are quick to jump on the keyboard warrior stuff over a comment I made in a video, when just in the past 2 weeks there have been 4 poaching incidents, a well known person got caught baiting bears with alcohol laced watermelons, 2 people shot cattle thinking they were elk, and a californian shot a calf moose thinking it was a deer. But my premature comment I owned up to is far worse all because we are an Outfit. Peoples priorities are funny.
ProbablyAre those other incidents on youtube?
I'm always ready for criticism. You obviously dont know my wifeSays the keyboard warrior. If you are going to post ridiculous video/commentary online, better be ready for criticism. Completely justified in this case.
Was that a "Guide" professional opinion hunter statement you said on your video. And now on here. You were pretty good at jumping on the keyboard as well.Agreed brother! MM has always had the same professional opinion hunters on it haha.
On a side note, I find it hilarious that people are quick to jump on the keyboard warrior stuff over a comment I made in a video, when just in the past 2 weeks there have been 4 poaching incidents, a well known person got caught baiting bears with alcohol laced watermelons, 2 people shot cattle thinking they were elk, and a californian shot a calf moose thinking it was a deer. But my premature comment I owned up to is far worse all because we are an Outfit. Peoples priorities are funny.
Definitely not immune. If guys took the time to read through all my comments, I have already stated and owned up to the comment I made. I made the comment before I saw the closer view trail cam shot. The first one I saw was a little further away, and was the entry shot. It looked way higher than the current shot of the exit wound. I ate my words, and welcome the humility. I'm not the first to make that mistake, wont be the last. My guide has put in more time trying to find and kill this same bull, or find a body than most would ever, so his dedication to the pursuit shows the true character of our ethics. I could delete the whole video, post a different version of the same thing and only those on here would know the difference. But I am the type that doesnt hide from my flaws, and hopefully it's a learning experience for everyone, as I learned a lesson myself. I made a mistake, I apologize for my cantankerous responses, assumptions and commentary on my video, and I'll continue to better myself as a hunter, Guide, Outfitter and sportsman! I appreciate everyone's feedback. This one comment on that video is no reflection of our abilities and judgement. I have some kick ass guides that bust their butts on the mountain, and we will continue focusing on being an outfit dedicated to those who serve our communities and our country!is this no mans land immune to infections that can potentially be fatal, as well?
I owned up to what I said. Read through the comments and you'll see. It's getting tiresome having to explain the same thing over and over. I've spoke my statement, I gotta get back to focusing on more important things. I appreciate your comment though! Hope you have a good season!Was that a "Guide" professional opinion hunter statement you said on your video. And now on here. You were pretty good at jumping on the keyboard as well.
When you are guilty you always try to shed a bad light on someone else to cover your butt.
The video says it all, if you don't like it next time "edit" your videos before posting them on a public internet site. Ha Ha
Might be dumb but that is their rules if you can't prove you missed then they considered you done... and in the case of this video you are done hunting.If you shoot and completely miss, you’re done hunting? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all week. And there’s been some really dumb things posted on MM this week
? Thanks man, it ain't easy owning up to mistakes, but I would rather. Hope you have a great season and good luck this fall!!Guys that actually know what they are talking about jumped on your comment because it was asinine and completely and unequivocally incorrect. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are an "outfitter/guide" or a youtube warrior.
You have owned up to your stupid comments and film and hopefully learned something, so from my perspective it is all good.
My guide wont be done hunting until he finds this bull or gets a second chance at it. Hes passed up much larger bulls in Hope's of finishing what he started. Hes got the rest of the day to do soMight be dumb but that is their rules if you can't prove you missed then they considered you done... and in the case of this video you are done hunting.
I read all of your comments and I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about you jumping right in with Dux and then bringing up a bunch of other incidents of poaching and an Californian shooting a calf moose thinking it was a deer. That particular story is older than me and I'm oldI owned up to what I said. Read through the comments and you'll see. It's getting tiresome having to explain the same thing over and over. I've spoke my statement, I gotta get back to focusing on more important things. I appreciate your comment though! Hope you have a good season!
Shouldn't you be out looking for a mortally wounded bull with your hunter/employee instead of bitchin on the internet?My guide wont be done hunting until he finds this bull or gets a second chance at it. Hes passed up much larger bulls in Hope's of finishing what he started. Hes got the rest of the day to do so
Appreciate the feedback brother! Thank you and good luck this season!!There ARE misplaced shots in hunting. Period. How we execute tactics (conduct ourselves) and what we say following the event is critical IMHO.
No scenario is perfect but I hope for the best possible outcome for you all, at this point.
IF I made that shot and IF I made those comments, the last thing I'd do is put it on the hero-web for all to see..., but I'm not telling you what to do but rather reflecting on what I'd have done.
"no man's land" = dead elk
Just my 2 cents, for free,
Zeke
No, My guide has plenty of help, and they've been after this bull since he shot it. I have other clients and other priorities, but thanks for the comment. Shouldn't you be focused on your day job instead of bitchin on the internet?Shouldn't you be out looking for a mortally wounded bull with your hunter/employee instead of bitchin on the internet?
Apparently on your list of priorities "find dead bull" is below "defend business on internet".No, My guide has plenty of help, and they've been after this bull since he shot it. I have other clients and other priorities, but thanks for the comment. Shouldn't you be focused on your day job instead of bitchin on the internet?
Well said Zeke...There ARE misplaced shots in hunting. Period. How we execute tactics (conduct ourselves) and what we say following the event is critical IMHO.
No scenario is perfect but I hope for the best possible outcome for you all, at this point.
IF I made that shot and IF I made those comments, the last thing I'd do is put it on the hero-web for all to see..., but I'm not telling you what to do but rather reflecting on what I'd have done.
"no man's land" = dead elk
Just my 2 cents, for free,
Zeke
There is some stiff competition for sure. About as stiff as this bull they are surely searching for (full sarcasm).This might be the most useless post of 2021.
I'm still waiting for all the posts from new members wanting help finding their wouded animals.This might be the most useless post of 2021.
You are obviously a slow learner. You just about had the fire put out and then you threw some more fuel on it. You're to busy to help your hunter because you have other clients and priorities but have time to play on the internet. Twenty posts since about 5 O'clock yesterday.No, My guide has plenty of help, and they've been after this bull since he shot it. I have other clients and other priorities, but thanks for the comment. Shouldn't you be focused on your day job instead of bitchin on the internet?
I am not playing the Vet card. I simply stated I was a Veteran owned outfit,
Also, there is a no man's land shot on an elk. So I'm assuming you havent killed very many. Do some research on it before commenting back!
This post is spot on!Then why even bring it up? It has nothing to do with making a poor shot and abandoning the search or ending the hunt. Only reason we know they kept looking or haven't shot another animal is because you said so. Your "ambassador", on film, said that the good news is the hunter gets to keep hunting.
Too many people bring up the veteran/LEO/first responder career choice to set the stage for something else. It would be like someone saying they're running a business for school teachers or bank tellers. Completely irrelevant for the discussion.
When you provide a public service in consideration of and then televise it, yeah, people get to tell you what to do and "no man's land" still doesn't exist.
Triggered, he is not right in the head. His ears are still ringing from the A-10 flying over. Vets of today are so into theirselves any old school vet wouldn’t even bring it up. For a good reason. Welcome to the brotherhood.First of all, do not tell me what to do. You don't know me keyboard warrior. Go read some other comments that address the stupidity of your response, and then come on back and we can have an adult conversation.
For what its worth, the last cow I shot was an old gal teeth worn flat with her gums. My dad shot her very healthy calf. When we were cleaning my cow we noticed a mass of scar tissue in her abdomen, roughly where the injury in the OP's video shows. It was all healed up and barely noticeable on the hide, but had a fist sized clump of cartilage and tissue lumped up under the hide on the far side with what looked like a .30 caliber bullet in the middle. That bullet had been there for a while, well before she got pregnant and gave birth to a healthy calf.
Could that bull survive? It is possible I think. Is it likely? Probably not IMO.
Never said it did. But my anecdotal experience with that cow proved to me that a gut shot elk can not only survive, but have a calf afterwardsAn animal can survive quite well with only one hit lung. A lung will heal up if hit high and sometimes if hit really low. High lung shots bleed very little, but the animal dies just the same.
Bow shot animals die from severe bleeding and eventually cardiac failure. If they don't bleed, either internally or externally, they have a good chance of surviving.
Still doesn't mean "no man's land" exists except for the educational schematic above based on the thread's documentary film...
Never said it did. But my anecdotal experience with that cow proved to me that a gut shot elk can not only survive, but have a calf afterwards
Careful with that rear leg no-mans land diagram. There was a bull in the state book in Az (Chappel?) who was shot in the lower leg and died.Triggered, he is not right in the head. His ears are still ringing from the A-10 flying over. Vets of today are so into theirselves any old school vet wouldn’t even bring it up. For a good reason. Welcome to the brotherhood.
Next he is going to talk about a hard year, just got back, hasn’t had time to scout and looking for a honey hole.
I have attached bullzone triangle and No-mans land shots for reference so younger hunters know when they stick a bull they can move on because it won’t die in general. ?
View attachment 52658
Agreed, I have seen many animals die from legs and other no-mans land shots. I have done a few myself. They are usually followed up by another shot.Careful with that rear leg no-mans land diagram. There was a bull in the state book in Az (Chappel?) who was shot in the lower leg and died.
So if you want to keep on shootin’ and filmin’, you might want to stick to the guts.
First thoughts on the video, that arrow looks very wobbly. Looks like the bow is out of tune. Possibly why the hit is the way it is. There is no "no mans" land where that wound is. Smell on an arrow doesn't mean there was no gut hit. In my opinion, I would never use these guides. From the comments on the video, to the excuses made here.Ran across this on the YouTube.
dead bull or not?
if you don’t want to watch it all, it shows the bull/ shot placement at 8:19
Did you / they recover the bull?No, My guide has plenty of help, and they've been after this bull since he shot it. I have other clients and other priorities, but thanks for the comment. Shouldn't you be focused on your day job instead of bitchin on the internet?
Any chance we can get these guys a few SFW hats to further the cause for wildlife while doing the You Tube circle yank.Ran across this on the YouTube.
dead bull or not?
if you don’t want to watch it all, it shows the bull/ shot placement at 8:19
Any chance we can get a few SFW hats for these Utah legends as they do the You tube circle yank and justify shooting a rag horn in piss bag.Ran across this on the YouTube.
dead bull or not?
if you don’t want to watch it all, it shows the bull/ shot placement at 8:19
In addition to maybe a HUSH hat…Any chance we can get these guys a few SFW hats to further the cause for wildlife while doing the You Tube circle yank.
#onlyutah
Big enough to tuck those ears up in there!In addition to maybe a HUSH hat…
You are wrong.. it didn’t die, he hit it in the “triangle” no mans zone area.The state gives you a tag to kill one bull……you did that…..should have punched your tag and been done.