Custom Caliber Selection

[bragabit]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-15 AT 12:28PM (MST)[p]I am ready to start a custom rifle build. It will be a lighter weight rifle for deer 95% of the time. 24 inch barrel.
I had my heart set on a 6.5x06ai. I think it would be an awesome deer round. I have a 6.5 1 in 8 1/2 twist barrel on order from Krieger should be here next month. I bought 100 Nosler 280ai brass to reload with. I have alot of 130 gr 6.5 bullets. Negative side will be needing a custom set of dies. I know a few of you on here have 6.5x06s. Does magazine length ever become a problem? Action is a Remington 700 LA.

I have been thinking about just making the rifle a 280ai. I already have the brass, dies are easy to come by, and the 280ai seems to be a really great round. I would like to shoot bullets in the 150gr range. Negative I would probably have to wait 4 months for a barrel, unless Krieger will let me change when my order comes up.

The practical side of me says I should make the rifle a 6.5x284. I have lots of 6.5x284 brass, bullets and reloading dies. My son shoots a 6.5x284 and I really like shooting it. The barrel on order will work for it .

All calibers would make a great deer gun.
What would you guys do?

 

[Cahunter805]

Either caliber is a great choice! Custom dies aren't to expensive to have cut for your rifle. The 6.5x284 is a good round also and you have a long action so mag box length is no problem. Personally since you already are setup for the 6.5x284 I would go that route.

 

[just_a_hunter]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-15 AT 04:32PM (MST)[p]To get the most out of a 284 based cartridges, they really need to be in a long action so the bullet doens't rob all that case space....

That's how I would go...

That being said, If I wanted a 6.5-06AI, I would just get regular 6.5-06 dies which are easy enough to come by. You will be fire forming your brass anyway, then I would do nothing but neck size after they were formed.

I had a Browning Abolt micro medalion .284 winchester. I loved that gun but hated how deep I had to seat the bullets. I sold that gun to have a custom built on an O3A3 action and a long throat. I could have just went with a .280 remington but I just want a .284 wichester...

Build what you want, not what makes the most sence. If that was the case you should go buy a .270 and call it quits as any of the above cartidges will not hardly out do the .270, especially in a hunting situation.

Good luck,

Todd

 

[waspocrew]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-15 AT 09:22PM (MST)[p]I finally received my custom 6.5 last week... I was looking at a 6.5 Creedmoor, but wasn't all that impressed by the velocity of the 140 Amax. I thought about a 6.5x284 , 6.5-06 AI, etc. and thought I'd have a little fun while I was at it. I went with a round known as the 6.5 Sherman. It's similar in design to the 6.5 Gibbs, but a slightly better design. It gets about 100 FPS or so over the 6.5-6 AI. Cases are easily formed from 270 Win or 280 Rem brass (280 AI would also work). I'm expecting around 3200 FPS with a 140 Amax out of my 26" Bartlein. The 160 matrix VLD ought to run around 3050 FPS. Med school has been a little busy, so I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet, but I'll hopefully take care of that soon!

Just thought I'd throw it out there since you've already considered the 6.5-06...

Here's some info on the round:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/6-5-sherman-q-125601/

Specs of my rig:
- Trued Rem 700 LA
- 26" 1:8 Twist Light Palma Bartlein
- 2 port mini brake
- Jewel Trigger
- Greybull precision stock
- PTG bottom metal



Sherman on the L, 280 Rem on the right. Neck brass down to .264, leave a false shoulder with a crush fit and fire away.

 

[waspocrew]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-15 AT 09:21PM (MST)[p]***Double post

 

[Togwotee]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-15 AT 07:05PM (MST)[p]

Not much difference between them really.

A 270 or 7mm mag of your choice are the ultimate deer guns in my opinion. if you found a magnum action and swaped out the barrel now it wouldn't cost much more at this point. just a thought.










Stay Thirsty My Friends

 

[Zeke]

I think you're splitting hairs for no good reason.

How a gun shoots (the tacticool guys say "run") is more a function of the barrel, action and stock than it is the cartridge case design, BC or bullet weight.... although it all factors into the equation to a small degree. Some would argue fruitlessly otherwise.

Build what you want and don't worry if it makes sense. If you want to make sense, just go buy a 7mm mag!

Building a fine semi-custom is more a personal matter than a practical matter.

I recently built a 280AI and seem pleased enough (but I'm about to embark on a 6.5 build)

Zeke

 

[lve2143]

Zeke,
I'll "fruitlessly" argue that it's a tad more practical
than you contend, though certainly it's more of a
personal matter.
ed
Your contention that an old 7'mag is like having a Custom
Rig in some non-belted cartridge, with much better accuracy
potential, is ludicrous.

 

[Togwotee]

I've never understood the wives tales about belted cartriges. if you headspace off the shoulder as you're supposed to the belt is just cosmetic.

Chris Kyle used a 300 win mag mostly, and the military uses the 300 win mag as their primary sniper round today. if a belt was a big deal they'd have figured out something else.
















Stay Thirsty My Friends

 

[Weiserbucks]

I think my next "custom" will be a 6.5 SAUM . It seems to be a good balance of B.C. ,velocity , efficiency , accuracy and barrel life . One thing I never understood is how we all debate the merits of different cartridge designs . Some points are valid while others are a waste of time . If it shoots good and accomplishes your goal , who cares if it has a belt ? What difference does it make if its 37 FPS faster than something else ? With all the bickering surrounding modern cartridges it makes me wonder how I ever took game with a 30-30 . It can be a healthy conversation , and it can turn south quickly . Just keep shooting , keep loading ammo , keep experimenting and enjoy yourself . Just my 2 cents .

 

[Zeke]

>I've never understood the wives tales
>about belted cartriges. if you
>headspace off the shoulder as
>you're supposed to the belt
>is just cosmetic.
>
>Chris Kyle used a 300 win
>mag mostly, and the military
>uses the 300 win mag
>as their primary sniper round
>today. if a belt was
>a big deal they'd have
>figured out something else.

For some of you who don't understand the finer principles of reloading need to read and re-read 440's post.

Like he said, reloaded properly, the belted cases have no practical down-side.

It's fun to play with custom builds and I've been doing that since the early 70's but the fact remains that, for all but the longest shots at the smallest targets, a 1 MOA factory rifle is all a guy will ever need.

I must say that it's fun to have discussions and even disagreement with folks without all the drama that we see in so many other posts. Well done!

Let's keep having fun.

Zeke

 

[Zeke]

Oh, and I'd be the LAST guy on the planet to come up with a reason that a guy shouldn't have another rifle!
Most of us only need a couple and I suspect that most of the posters on this thread have XX times that many. There's always a "good" reason for just one more. haha

Zeke

 

[Weiserbucks]

You nailed it Zeke , I agree 100% .

 

[Cahunter805]

Zeke

Gotta agree with you!! For some reason I always find a reason to build something else or restock a rifle. Just picked up a new McMillan from the specials page for my new build and can't wait to get the reamer. PTG claims the 6.5SAUM 120 freebore reamer is almost done.

 

[lve2143]

Zeke,
If you don't understand the belted magnum
deal, your an idiot.

I can resize the belts too, but why should
I have to, if there is a better way.

There is genius.

It's called not having a belt.

Kinda like having a cell phone instead
of a rotary phone.

 

[Togwotee]

If you have to resize the belt you have a problem.

The belt is just a leftover from the cordite powder filled 300 and 375 H&H since they didn't have a shoulder to headspace on. even at that the 300 H&H will shoot very well it's just a little harder on brass.

The belt is like your tail bone , something you don't need anymore but it doesn't hurt anything. when chosing a cartidge belted or non belted should be the least of your concerns.


This builder's rifles will shoot with the best of them. he's a huge fan of the 7mm Rem mag and 300 Win mag, I guess nobody told him they won't shoot .

http://quarterminutemagnums.com/

















Stay Thirsty My Friends

 

[Captain_coues]

440, what are your opinions of the 300 WBY vs the 300 win mag? I ask because I think you have both and I'm getting a 300 WBY built. It's a model 700 with #4 shillen.
Thanks

 

[Togwotee]

You know other than a slight velocity advantage I can't tell any difference. my McWhorter is a 300 WBY and it's a tack driver.


One thing on WBY rounds that is very very important and you need to check is freebore, factory rifles have lots of it. most good customs don't. so if the rifle you're looking at has no freebore you may not be able to shoot factory ammo in it. I'd stick the bolt in both of my custom WBY's I'm pretty sure if I did.

You can still get the velocity and the accuracy , but about a middle of the chart load will be your max load.

If you like the rifle don't let the WBY or the belt scare you it's a good round. I can't say I would have ordered it had I bought the rifle new, but I don't regret buying it.
















Stay Thirsty My Friends

 

[Zeke]

>Zeke,
>If you don't understand the belted
>magnum
>deal, your an idiot.
>
>I can resize the belts too,
>but why should
>I have to, if there is
>a better way.
>
>There is genius.
>
>It's called not having a belt.
>
>
>Kinda like having a cell phone
>instead
>of a rotary phone.



Well, there you have it folks. I'm officially an idiot!

Here's a news flash for you Teddy Trojan. If you size and headspace to the shoulder, like you always should with any cartridge, there's no additional though or worries about the belt. Like it or not, the belt is just there and a guy doesn't have to think a thing about it.

We've all heard about case separation just above the belt and it's a real issue IF YOU ELECT TO IGNORE PROPER SIZING PRACTICEs. It's the same issue with case separation just forward of the web, on a standard cartridge, if you are predisposed to over-sizing and persist in pushing the shoulder pack between shots.

There you have it! Learn to reload and the belt is no longer a scary thing.

Love,
Zeke

 

[Weiserbucks]

Its no secret that belted cartridges are an antiquated design , all of the newer designs have done away with the belt . However , there have been train loads of game taken and a fair number of competition shooting records have been set with belted magnums . Are the newer designs better ? I don't know , that's above my pay grade . What I do know for sure is the targets and game I shoot cant tell if the round is belted or not .

 

[Zeke]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-15 AT 01:56PM (MST)[p]>Its no secret that belted cartridges
>are an antiquated design ,
>all of the newer designs
>have done away with the
>belt . However , there
>have been train loads of
>game taken and a
>fair number of competition shooting
>records have been set with
>belted magnums . Are the
>newer designs better ? I
>don't know , that's above
>my pay grade . What
>I do know for sure
>is the targets and game
>I shoot cant tell if
>the round is belted or
>not .

That's all true and I'll add to it if I may.

The design was/is more recently cosmetic on "magnum" cartridges and it's a throw-back to when it actually served a purpose.

The belt is totally un-needed on a modern cartridge yet the cartridge performance and accuracy isn't negatively affected by having it.. IF IT"S RESIZED CORRECTLY (which is oh so easy to do).

Bottom line, if you don't like a belt, build something without one. There are other great cartridges from which to choose but never overlook the belted ones in your quest.

Sorry OP, we got off base on your thread while trying to pee on each other! haha

Zeke

 

[Togwotee]

When all the magnums built off the H&H case were developed most shooters thought the belt was there for added srength, it wasn't just a magnum, it was a " belted mnagnum " . if they had eliminated the belt which they could have, it would have hurt sales . perfect examples are the 224 and 240 Weatherby magnums, built on the smaller 30-06 case but he put the belt on anyway. because a magnum just had to have a belt.

Then the gun industry being what it is needed a reboot to get the buyers back in the gun stores. so roll out the new and improved magnums with beltless design . the same people who once thought a magnum had to have a belt now felt like they got screwed and now needed a beltless magnum so they could hit something past 80 yards.

The belt is the least important consideration in a caliber selection.



















Stay Thirsty My Friends

 

[Apexmtnman]

"Zeke,
If you don't understand the belted magnum
deal, your an idiot.

I can resize the belts too, but why should
I have to, if there is a better way.

There is genius.

It's called not having a belt.

Kinda like having a cell phone instead
of a rotary phone."

Someone's an idiot here but it's not Zeke. If you listen to Zeke and Dude440Tog you might learn something. If you know how to set up your resizing die the belt is a non issue.

 

[marley]

I have liked the idea of a 6.5-06 AI. My gunsmith loves this caliber but I just had a .264 WM so it wouldn't be that different

 

[Apexmtnman]

Bragabit, I have a 6.5-06 Improved with a Kreiger 8.5 twist barrel. I called Redding when I built it about 2 years ago and they had Type S bushing dies on the shelf. They won't sell direct so I had to buy them from Bruno's and it is an excellent die. Midway had a seating die in stock so I picked one up from them. I use 270 brass and neck down and trim, 25-06 brass will work good also. I'm shooting Berger hunting 140 grain VLD's at about 3050 fps. You can push it harder but accuracy suffered when I did. It's a great round but I usually take my 264 Win Mag when I am serious about killing something just because it shoots the same bullet about 200 fps faster.