CWD

nfh

Long Time Member
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Reason I bring this topic up is I am currently having a discussion with the lead biologist for my region for several months.

Personally I don't see the sick deer or the struggle. Based off some numbers I just got the north fork/south fork herd in 1 year went from 10 to 20 percent postive and they act like every deer will die. Based off their numbers we will have no deer left but I don't buy it. Apprantley they claim it's real issue. So far my discussions have been in person and emails and my opinion won't change.
I do believe cwd will effect a small few.

Now what do you guys see and think? There isn't enough people to speak out at the game and fish meetings about this and they monitor this site pretty well

This discussion has nothing to do with EHD. I have had the talk with them and my questions never get answered which shows they don't care.


If you are a non resident what do you see in your state and what have they done?
 
I am not educated enough on the topic to have an informed opinion. That being said, it is not something that I am overly concerned about.

Each year my kids and I assist the G&F with their winter mortality surveys. Most years we find very few. Some years we find none. Some years they are stacked like cordwood. Our findings correspond directly with winter length, snow amounts and low temps. I would assume if CWD was a bigger contributing factor then the 0 winter kill years would not exist for us.

Once again I don't know enough to determine either way. I have a coworker that has a brother living in Pinedale. She told me one day that he sent her pics of a small buck that he found laying along side his house that while still alive had withered to nothing. This was in mid November. I mentioned that he should call local G&F office because it sure sounded like a likely case of CWD and they would likely want to know. He did and was told, they didn't care and that when it died he could haul it to the dump if he wanted to. This was just a couple years ago. Apparently that office isn't overly concerned either.
 
Based off this region they are getting very nervous and I feel big plans are brewing up. And the ideas to come make me nervous
 
Here is a little story. Last year at work this deer showed up. See the big bump on the side of its face? I call the warden and they let it go. I called them back 2 days later to take care of it. So testing showed a cyst in its mouth so it couldn't eat and was starving to death. They also tested for cwd. When I asked for the results down the road the warden couldn't remember if the deer was positive or negative for cwd but if positive that's why the deer was in bad shape

Screenshot_20230105-165546_Gallery.jpg
 
I Turned A Sick Bull Elk In,In 2004!

They Never Would Tell Me If It Tested Positive Or Negative For CWD!

It Was The Sickest Animal I've Ever Seen that Was Still Alive!

Have No Idea What Was Wrong With It!

They Smacked The Deer Herd Not Too Far Away from here in Pleasant Valley This Last Fall!

CWD = Sell More Tags!

KILL THEM ALL!

That'll Fix EVERY-F'N-THING!
 
Based upon what I am seeing in whitetails in the east, I honestly don't think it is as lethal as they say. I actually think some that test positive had already built an immunity or resistance to it. But it seems like once they start actively testing populations it starts showing up.

But killing all of deer to save them is a dumb idea.
 
I am not educated enough on the topic to have an informed opinion. That being said, it is not something that I am overly concerned about.

Each year my kids and I assist the G&F with their winter mortality surveys. Most years we find very few. Some years we find none. Some years they are stacked like cordwood. Our findings correspond directly with winter length, snow amounts and low temps. I would assume if CWD was a bigger contributing factor then the 0 winter kill years would not exist for us.

Once again I don't know enough to determine either way. I have a coworker that has a brother living in Pinedale. She told me one day that he sent her pics of a small buck that he found laying along side his house that while still alive had withered to nothing. This was in mid November. I mentioned that he should call local G&F office because it sure sounded like a likely case of CWD and they would likely want to know. He did and was told, they didn't care and that when it died he could haul it to the dump if he wanted to. This was just a couple years ago. Apparently that office isn't overly concerned either.
I see the same shed hunting every year very little to no dead deer nothing out of the ordinary if cwd was such a big deer killer there should be dead deer everywhere
 
Deer populations turn over pretty rapidly in most areas of the country, most bucks live a couple years average, does maybe a bit more. Older deer are the least numerous. CWD takes time to take an animal down. At a certain level, it becomes just part of the forces of nature, balancing births and deaths. It will never be able to eliminate a herd.

The same cannot be said for some state game agencies, or regions thereof, that try to eliminate CWD. They will fail at that, of course, but at least they won’t have to look at so many potential carriers which causes them a great amount of hand-wringing. Better to kill the patient in order to save the patient, they seem to think.
 
I live 10 miles from the Epi-center of where cwd first started in the US 40+ years ago on the west side of Ft Collins, CO. You would think if cwd was so bad that we wouldn’t have any deer left with prions being in our soil for over 40 years? That hasn’t been the case and there never has been any epidemic die-offs.

The only severe dead deer kills we’ve had was from the meaningless slaughter of deer in our area from the original culling projects after it was first discovered. Those culling projects did literally nothing to prevent the spread. Is there a reason the CPW quit the culling program? Yep, because it did absolutely nothing!

We have gobs of predators in our area and they are pretty darn efficient at selectively killing sick and weak animals!

I would urge all of those in Wyo to do everything in their power to prevent mass culling projects and anything related to harvesting mature bucks with late rifle season rut hunts. Learn from Colorados mistakes…they do absolutely nothing!
 
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The author of the above article brings to attention some great questions that no one currently has answered. Across countless publications is copied and pasted that cwd is 100% lethal.

Deer actually live extremely short lives in human terms. A mature muley buck can reach B&C proportions in 5 to 7 years time. There are numerous mature bucks harvested across Colo over the past 10 to 15 years where CWD has been present. There has been no catastrophic loss of deer in the 20 to 40+ years cwd prions have accumulated in soil in northern colorado and southern Wyo….end of story!

One thing that also hasn’t been proven is whether there are resistant alleles in deer for CWD. Harvesting old age class bucks may actually be doing more harm than good! Old age class bucks generally carry the best genes that exist in the herd. If mature bucks can survive winters, predators, drought, and disease you would certainly think they would be the first to die in areas with higher CWD prevalence? This hasn’t been the case in Colorado!

How many hunters have harvest mature bucks and does in Colo and Wyo that appeared 100% healthy to hunters that ended up getting tested positive for CWD?
 
There actually is a non-lethal method for monitoring CWD in deer without killing them. It is called tonsil biopsy immunohistochemistry (IHC). The problem is, once IHC has been performed it takes time to view the culture in a lab.

Here is an actual study conducted years ago near Estes Park, Colo using IHC to test and cull CWD in mule deer. Mule deer were darted, IHC samples collected, mule deer tagged/collared, and then released. Deer that tested positive were later tracked down and killed. I have included some of the highlights from the publication below.


MATERIALS AND METHODS​

An early model suggested that CWD prevalence could be reduced by 50% over a 5 yr period via selective culling using a 50% annual testing regimen (Gross and Miller 2001). To that end, we evaluated a test and cull strategy (Wolfe et al. 2004b) for suppressing CWD in a naturally-infected, free-ranging mule deer herd wintering in the town of Estes Park and in Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado, US.

We collected samples (tonsil biopsy and blood) and marked each deer with a telemetry device to facilitate tracking down infected individuals (Wolfe et al. 2004b). We used telemetry to locate test-positive animals and culled them via chemical immobilization as described and intravenous lethal injection (potassium chloride), or via gunshot to the head with a high-caliber rifle.

RESULTS​

We collected 1,251 biopsies from over 700 individual deer during the autumn 2002–spring 2007 disease management period. Nearly 92% (1,146/1,251) of biopsies were usable, and about 91% (1,041/1,146) of those had ≥5 lymphoid follicles. During the management period we tested an average of 57% of the estimated number of adult deer each year (range 48−68%; Table 1). We culled 34 infected females and 37 infected males during that time, usually within 3−6 wk of sampling and within 2 wk of receiving results; all but two of the culled deer were ≥2 yr old.

Among males, CWD prevalence during the 3-yr after period (0.06) was lower (P=0.014) than during the before period (0.13; Table 1 and Fig. 2). However, recapture rates for males did not exceed 50% until 2006−07 (Fig. S1) and perhaps reflected immigration or underestimated abundance of male deer. In contrast, prevalence among females during the before and after periods were equivalent (P=0.777; Table 1 and Fig. 2). Estimated prevalence among hunter-harvested, adult male (0.09–0.11) and female (0.06–0.07) mule deer in the surrounding Big Thompson population also remained relatively unchanged during this same time period (Fig. 2 and Table S1).

DISCUSSION​

Despite expending considerable field effort and adhering closely to management objectives, we did not uniformly reduce CWD prevalence through selective culling. Chronic wasting disease became endemic in this area well before disease management began, so it seems plausible that contaminated environments could sustain transmission over several years, despite aggressive removal of infected deer.

BOTTOM LINE​


In some aspects, our culling of known CWD-positive animals simulated the effect of natural predators in the wild that exploit vulnerabilities and weakness when selecting prey. Although we detected some infected individuals well before clinical signs would have been discernible to a predator, at the herd level our testing effort likely was not as persistent or effective as that of natural predators. Our findings could lend credence to the potential role of predation−of sufficiently high intensity and duration−in helping suppress CWD outbreaks if CWD-positive individuals are preferentially targeted by predators (Wild et al. 2011).
 
There actually is a non-lethal method for monitoring CWD in deer without killing them. It is called tonsil biopsy immunohistochemistry (IHC). The problem is, once IHC has been performed it takes time to view the culture in a lab.

Here is an actual study conducted years ago near Estes Park, Colo using IHC to test and cull CWD in mule deer. Mule deer were darted, IHC samples collected, mule deer tagged/collared, and then released. Deer that tested positive were later tracked down and killed. I have included some of the highlights from the publication below.


MATERIALS AND METHODS​

An early model suggested that CWD prevalence could be reduced by 50% over a 5 yr period via selective culling using a 50% annual testing regimen (Gross and Miller 2001). To that end, we evaluated a test and cull strategy (Wolfe et al. 2004b) for suppressing CWD in a naturally-infected, free-ranging mule deer herd wintering in the town of Estes Park and in Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado, US.

We collected samples (tonsil biopsy and blood) and marked each deer with a telemetry device to facilitate tracking down infected individuals (Wolfe et al. 2004b). We used telemetry to locate test-positive animals and culled them via chemical immobilization as described and intravenous lethal injection (potassium chloride), or via gunshot to the head with a high-caliber rifle.

RESULTS​

We collected 1,251 biopsies from over 700 individual deer during the autumn 2002–spring 2007 disease management period. Nearly 92% (1,146/1,251) of biopsies were usable, and about 91% (1,041/1,146) of those had ≥5 lymphoid follicles. During the management period we tested an average of 57% of the estimated number of adult deer each year (range 48−68%; Table 1). We culled 34 infected females and 37 infected males during that time, usually within 3−6 wk of sampling and within 2 wk of receiving results; all but two of the culled deer were ≥2 yr old.

Among males, CWD prevalence during the 3-yr after period (0.06) was lower (P=0.014) than during the before period (0.13; Table 1 and Fig. 2). However, recapture rates for males did not exceed 50% until 2006−07 (Fig. S1) and perhaps reflected immigration or underestimated abundance of male deer. In contrast, prevalence among females during the before and after periods were equivalent (P=0.777; Table 1 and Fig. 2). Estimated prevalence among hunter-harvested, adult male (0.09–0.11) and female (0.06–0.07) mule deer in the surrounding Big Thompson population also remained relatively unchanged during this same time period (Fig. 2 and Table S1).

DISCUSSION​

Despite expending considerable field effort and adhering closely to management objectives, we did not uniformly reduce CWD prevalence through selective culling. Chronic wasting disease became endemic in this area well before disease management began, so it seems plausible that contaminated environments could sustain transmission over several years, despite aggressive removal of infected deer.

BOTTOM LINE​


In some aspects, our culling of known CWD-positive animals simulated the effect of natural predators in the wild that exploit vulnerabilities and weakness when selecting prey. Although we detected some infected individuals well before clinical signs would have been discernible to a predator, at the herd level our testing effort likely was not as persistent or effective as that of natural predators. Our findings could lend credence to the potential role of predation−of sufficiently high intensity and duration−in helping suppress CWD outbreaks if CWD-positive individuals are preferentially targeted by predators (Wild et al. 2011).
I would be a lot more interested to hear how long those infected animals would have lived before becoming sick if they hadn't culled them.
 
There is a heck of a lot of CWD research grant $ being distributed across the US. It is pretty irritating seeing the same ignorant comments in abstracts that have been used for the past 30+ years without any solid backing! Hopefully someone comes up with practical research that answers the CWD fatality and longevity question.

There are obviously compounding factors and questions. Did the CWD positive tested deer die from CWD or from winterkill, predators, drought, etc? Even with radio collars it may be tough to explain exactly what caused the death. Many of the deaths are likely due to a combination of factors. Lots and lots of unanswered questions!
 
Go to the meetings and make sure you get your fellow hunters there too. Voice your opposition.
They were planning a large scale mule deer reduction in our area and folks stood up and said no way. Meetings were not fun for WG&F, they shut down comment at one because of negative reception to their plans.
Now they are studying the herd instead of killing it off.
Get your LOs involved too. Our LOs over here also did not like their plans and said they would not be decimating the buck population.
I know folks from Casper called in at that meeting and also voiced concerns they did not expect.
With enough opposition they will listen, somewhat.
Good luck !
 
Go to the meetings and make sure you get your fellow hunters there too. Voice your opposition.
They were planning a large scale mule deer reduction in our area and folks stood up and said no way. Meetings were not fun for WG&F, they shut down comment at one because of negative reception to their plans.
Now they are studying the herd instead of killing it off.
Get your LOs involved too. Our LOs over here also did not like their plans and said they would not be decimating the buck population.
I know folks from Casper called in at that meeting and also voiced concerns they did not expect.
With enough opposition they will listen, somewhat.
Good luck !
I'm not sure if you know, but G&F has a small CWD working group in Wheatland headed by the Wheatland and Laramie biologists. They are determined to move forward with the culling idea. You will be having a meeting on this in Laramie soon.

@ICMDEER is on the group and hope he jumps on here.
 
It's good to have tough questions to ask! Here is a long list of potential questions:

1) Has it ever been proven that CWD is 100% fatal to wild deer? If so, where?

2) Has indiscriminate harvesting of infected and uninfected deer with hunting to the point of depleting or eliminating local deer herd populations ever prevented the long-term spread of CWD?

3) In areas where CWD has been present in the soil for years and years does it make sense to deplete or eliminate deer populations when prions will remain in the soil for years?

4) Is it possible that predators do a great job of keeping CWD positive deer numbers low and in check by targeting mostly the sick and weak?

5) Are predators more effective at selectively killing CWD positive deer than hunting or culling projects that indiscriminately harvest healthy plus a small percentage of CWD deer?

6) Will prions remain in the soil even if every CWD positive deer is eliminated? How many years must every deer in an area be culled and eliminated before allowing deer to be re-introduced into an area? Would it be possible to achieve this in a human's lifetime?

7) Have large scale culling operations ever wiped out CWD and/or prevented it's spread?

8) How long do CWD prions last in the soil?

9) CWD prions have been in Colo soils since the early 1980's. When is the epidemic die-off that has been predict for years going to happen?

10) If CWD prions continue to accumulate in the soil every year why hasn't there ever been any catastrophic die-off of deer?

11) How many epidemic die-offs have totally whipped out deer populations in Northern Colorado and Southern Wyoming where prions have existed for 20 to 40+ years?

12) Is it known whether there is any resistant CWD alleles that are present in older age class mule deer that get passed on to their progeny that may over come CWD and provide several additional years of health in the wild?

13) If resistant CWD alleles exist in mule deer how long can these extend their lives?

14) Is it possible that older age class bucks that travel longer distance to rut and possibly have a higher chance of encountering CWD may have more resistant alleles that they can pass along to their fawns than younger bucks or does?

15) Is there any real data to show that there is significantly higher rates of CWD in mature bucks than does when the sampling size and presence rates are so small? Has this ever been proven to be statistically significant?

16) Can a higher rate of resistant alleles be passed on to fawns if bucks that have survived CWD slightly longer at an older age are allowed to breed?

17) How are there still older age class bucks present in herds if CWD is so devastating...especially to older bucks?

18) Could there potentially be more and more resistant alleles built up in older age class bucks and does if the season structure and tag numbers allow these to survive rather than harvested?

19) Is data references from actual large field samples over multiple years or are they from models for a short interval of research? Most predicted and projected models related to CWD have proven to be totally false!

Sorry about the long list but there are so many unanswered questions!
 
I know one thing. North fork/south fork and clarks for herd has been struggling for quite some time. Hard winters have proven bad fawn crops. This last year fawn crops went up and a slight rebound in the herd, this info was per game and fish at a meeting. But now they want to use cwd to blame reduction in the deer herd and oh my god the deer are doomed.

I actually shared some emails with @jm77
And it's pretty sad the answers I am getting. The answers are just like the blog that was shared a few post back
 
Great discussion and questions. I have not seen any success from the "depopulation model" used in Colorado and other places. And I have been to and discussed that strategy and the outcomes with hunters and outfitters from Colorado to Alberta as well as Iowa and Wisconsin.

Most of the questions posed have been asked numerous times. No real response from G&F with the exception "we can't keep doing what we have always done." Their primary emphasis has been to depopulate. There's also discussion about mineral and salt for livestock, plus the possibility of changing water for livestock to alleviate CWD. And strategies for proper disposal of carcasses.

My bottom line is I am still convinced we are seeing genetic resistance to CWD in some areas. That's how we beat Scrapie and I believe it is the way to beat CWD. We need a test for LIVE ANIMALS FOR CWD. We also need to do the GENOMIC RESEARCH and see if we can't find an answer there. Those things are well beyond the scope of our local group, but supporting that sort of work should be the #1 priority. Not killing all the deer. That's not an answer and there is no scientific evidence depopulating deer has helped any area overcome CWD.

I commend G&F for trying and appreciate the fact they want to involve others. But their listening skills need to be sharpened and the breadth of their ideas needs to be strengthened.

There are many creative ideas we can try, but that "brainstorming session" has not yet happened. I remain hopeful we will all somehow put our oars in the water and paddle the same direction when we are done.

I'll try to pass along these concerns and others if the opportunity arises. Thanks to all.
 
Was out today in Idahos unit 14. Always watching the wintering elk herds along the Salmon River. Noticeable fewer elk in the normal places. Did not see any mule deer. Was in and out of the area during the fall seasons. Folks were hammering the cow elk, doe muleys/ bucks and whitetails. All in the name of CWD. Not sure why the scorthed earth response to CWD? Sad not to see the wintering animals. Heard they found one doe with CWD. It was a road kill.
 
I don’t know how Wyoming is managing but the Eastern states have been dealing with this for decades and seem to have accepted a natural strategy to let CWD run its course. Depopulation never seems to work and some deer are known to have natural immunity which one expert thinks it’s close to 41% in Wisconsin. This natural strategy will take a long time though, likely centuries.
“Robinson and her colleagues estimate that about 41 percent of all deer in the original CWD core area have CWD-resistant genes, which they will pass on to offspring. If natural selection follows its normal progression, deer that are CWD-resistant should become dominant in a few hundred years. That’s good news to hunters like Grabski.

“This evolutionary change could take place in an area with low infection rates in as little as 250 years,” Grabski added. “In an area of high infection, the process will be accelerated, and most deer could be CWD-resistant in as little as 50 years.”

The implications for CWD management are enormous. Those who still advocate harvesting large numbers of deer to try to eradicate CWD and/or for CWD testing will undoubtedly take out CWD-resistant deer from the wild, slowing the process of natural selection. In the end, it’s probably best to leave CWD management to Mother Nature.“ https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...genetically-resistant-chronic-wasting-disease
 
I wonder if it is possible to introduce resistant deer into areas with low resistant alleles to speed up the process? I’m sure a lot will be discovered in the coming years.

It’s great to hear the consistency across the country that depopulation is not the answer!
 
The responses from game and fish just kill me. Example: shoot a nice mature whitetail and test positive for cwd. My question is why is he so healthy if he has cwd. their response is the buck just got cwd. They claim cwd is 100 percent fatal in 1 to 2 years. How can they claim that when there is no testing for live deer? All these years of shooting these mature deer and cwd is coming back positive i always get the answer the deer just got cwd. I do believe in Wisconsin on the deer farms they test deer through urine


I have brought this up at meetings before and i get shut down pretty quick is we will talk with you after the meeting to further discuss which ends in 4 against 1 and most the people in the room have no idea what you're saying cause all they want is a tag in their pocket to hunt.

If the north fork/south fork deer herd has shown a steady decline for all these years now they want to use cwd to blame it. I can clearly see predators, winter of 2016-2017 and road kill is the major factor. roadkill is huge. The expansion of humans where deer winter equals more traffic plus record numbers of traffic of people heading up the park increases roadkill. For those that know that highway have seen it. Also i remember south fork road have very little amount of housing and now its pretty much connected to cody with non stop housing. I have personally taken out 3 mule deer with the truck in the last 7 years on that road. i feel if they claim cwd went from 10 to 20 percent increase in those areas they are going to make some bad choices.
 
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I'm not sure if you know, but G&F has a small CWD working group in Wheatland headed by the Wheatland and Laramie biologists. They are determined to move forward with the culling idea. You will be having a meeting on this in Laramie soon.

@ICMDEER is on the group and hope he jumps on here.
Was hoping this working group was disbanded since they have not moved forward with their meetings.
I know LOs are not on board with culling mature bucks down to nothing.
The word of the new study makes me think they will push back on culling until they can show numbers to support their claims.
Wishful thinking on my part I know.

I have corresponded with ICMDEER about this when to was announced.
 
Let Mother Nature do what Mother Nature was meant to do. Its that simple. Why do we have to make everything so damn difficult and try and play God in everything we do? If anyone seriously thinks culling the herd is the answer to slow down or prevent CWD, they're crazy. What a bunch of BS and piss poor management. All who were involved making that decision should be fired. Pathetic.
Meanwhile, deer herds in midwestern and eastern states continue to thrive. They have predators, they have vehicle collisions, they have trains, they have human encroachment, and biggest of all they have EHD. Yet we continue to suck at managing our big game herds out west. Unreal...
 
I thought I would post a couple CWD videos that recently were produced by the CPW and WG&F.



One of the most promising things currently available for fighting CWD prevalence and spread that was brought up in the CPW videos is the importance of promoting landowner education and awareness. Anyone that has spent time hunting public land in Colorado and Wyoming is aware of the extreme amount of hunting pressure that occurs on public land. Both deer and elk know the private/public fence lines and congregate on lightly hunted private land. What is the worse scenario for CWD infection and spread.......the concentration of animals!

Opening up private land access for hunters through Walk-in and HMA programs in Wyoming are a great step in the right direction to harvest concentrated animals and scatter big game across the landscape. The walk-in programs that have started in Eastern Colorado will hopefully branch out to the Front Range and Western Colorado.

If the CPW and WG&F really want to put their CWD grant and funding money to work, how about working in cooperation with landowners to open up more private land to hunting that will immediately impact CWD prevalence rates by spreading concentrated animals? It's a win-win for both hunters and CWD.
 
I thought I would post a couple CWD videos that recently were produced by the CPW and WG&F.



One of the most promising things currently available for fighting CWD prevalence and spread that was brought up in the CPW videos is the importance of promoting landowner education and awareness. Anyone that has spent time hunting public land in Colorado and Wyoming is aware of the extreme amount of hunting pressure that occurs on public land. Both deer and elk know the private/public fence lines and congregate on lightly hunted private land. What is the worse scenario for CWD infection and spread.......the concentration of animals!

Opening up private land access for hunters through Walk-in and HMA programs in Wyoming are a great step in the right direction to harvest concentrated animals and scatter big game across the landscape. The walk-in programs that have started in Eastern Colorado will hopefully branch out to the Front Range and Western Colorado.

If the CPW and WG&F really want to put their CWD grant and funding money to work, how about working in cooperation with landowners to open up more private land to hunting that will immediately impact CWD prevalence rates by spreading concentrated animals? It's a win-win for both hunters and CWD.
Those videos are pure propaganda. Hard not to see that.
 
Not going to lie, it's hard not to see it that way. The disease has been around plenty long enough to not have already decimated big game herds, and it hasn't... Why if it's so deadly and destructive hasn't it wiped out the deer and elk herds in northwest Colorado? The elk herds are growing. I just cant wrap my head around the idea that intentionally killing more deer is going to somehow solve the CWD issue. Killing more deer won't have any positive impacts on the deer herd that is infected. I don't see anyway you get rid of this disease unless the deer themselves build up a natural immunity. The prions themselves are infectious for years after. I think its terrible management, and wishful thinking.
 

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