Desert Bighorn in Sacramento's?

[5yearcoueshunter]

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/tra...acramento-mountains-topic-for-public-meeting/

Thoughts on this? From a couple of sources, I hear there is still quite a few Barbary here. Could be a problem.


Travis

 

[smarba]

This is the reason that area west of Westside Road went OTC...an attempt to slaughter the Barbs to transplant bighorn.

IMO it's a losing battle. Barbs will be impossible to kill out due to the rugged terrain (although they have been absolutely hammered), Barbs will keep migrating north along the rim so will continually replenish, there are a lot of lions in that area and they will wreak havoc on the bighorns (and are tough to thin also because of the rugged terrain and difficulty even with dogs).

Bighorns need SO much attention/management to get them to survive let alone thrive. I just think this area has so many things going against them that it will be hard for bighorns to get established.

I'm no biologist, so perhaps I'm wrong.

Carl

 

[elkfanatic]

I did my last case study of college on this predicament. Honestly, I am working as a technician in Nevada right now with California Bighorn and I have noticed that they tend to hang out in the exact same areas I would see Barbary in. However, barbary are a generalist species, that's why they can explode and fit themselves into so many different habitats. I really think theres only two ways it's going to go. Bighorn are either going to get completely wiped out from competition or the barbary will expand their niche around the bighorns. One of the main concerns is how aggressive barbary rams are during the rut. From seeing horn sheath density and size, I believe a bighorn would knock a barbary ram flat. However, I am in no way an expert in this field. I am very interested in how it turns out. If done correctly, this could be a huge breakthrough as far as where we could continue to place desert bighorn if they can coexist with barbary. We are basically going to be the first ones to try it so we could be pioneers if all goes well.

 

[NMhunter4life]

I think it is a waste of money and bighorns. Smarba brought up a lot of good points. The lions will hammer them. That country is a bit too brushy and there is not that much really open terrain where the bighorns can live in relative safety. My other concern is that they will be right up on the edge of Alamogordo and there is probably someone who raises a few domestic sheep for 4-H in their backyard. They could easily get pneumonia and wipe out the entire herd.

The whole argument of barbary sheep disrupting bighorn breeding patterns is based on one anecdotal report that I think was from the 1970's. There are areas in Texas where aoudad and BHS both live together. Sul Ross has an ongoing study on the interaction and use of habitat types in one of these areas. I have not seen results of this research yet. [https://www.sulross.edu/news/3700/g...ri-monitor-desert-bighorn-aoudad-interaction]

In my opinion, just leave that country to the barbary sheep and put it back in with the regular draw hunts.

 

[NMPaul]

How about Coues deer instead. They breed like rats and be much easier for the average hunter to get a tag. Just a thought. Dont laugh to loud.

 

[Muleman]

I'm not in favor of it because your taking an area that hundreds of Barbary sheeps hunters can hunt and putting in Bighorn where only 1 or 2 tags will be issued a year if the make it.

The competition issue won't be a big issue until both populations increase and Barbary WILL out compete bighorns. Don?t need a study to figure that out.

The game and squish department will use there contract trappers to knock down the lions. They done it in other Bighorn areas and it has worked great, lion control is a must if you want Bighorn.

On the plus side the Barbary population is still good there, quality is down but if your willing to work you can find and kill a sheep. I did it once won't do it again for an average sheep, those bluffs make the Florida?s look tame.

I think they are going to do it no matter what, they will do anything in the name of Bighorns and Gov tags!!

 

[smarba]

Muleman:

I voiced the same thing to a friend. At best there might be 5-10 bighorn tags in that area (probably far fewer).

The reality is none of us will statistically ever draw a bighorn tag, yet we could hunt Barbs there regularly if the area were managed for Barbs.

His response was that Barbs are exotic/feral and should be eradicated everywhere. Bighorns are native and should be given priority over Barbs.

I understand that point of view, but bottom line for me is I like hunting. I like eating game meat. I'd personally rather hunt regularly and kill and eat a dozen or more "feral" animals than wait a lifetime in hopes of a single bighorn tag.

The area is already a popular place for lion hunters. So we're going to greatly reduce opportunity for lion & Barb hunting to transplant bighorns.

It seems to me there must be other areas in the state where bighorns could be planted that are more easy to control predators etc.

Again I'm only an armchair quarterback, biologists have been studying this issue to death I'm sure.

 

[littlemonster]

If they want Desert Bighorns in the Sacramento's or Guadalupe's why don't they put up a high fence around the Carlsbad Cavern's National park and kill out all of the Barbary from inside the fence then they could transplant Desert Bighorn's into the high fence area of the National park. The area around Carlsbad Caverns is ideal country for Desert Bighorn's.

 

[Ltsheets]

Barb hunting there us a true challenge that I love. I feel like this is a bad idea and would be a losing proposition.

 

[Oryxrus]

The real issue based on my experience is regardless if we agree or disagree about wildlife management if no one attends these meetings or sends an email to the department none of it matters. To be perfectly honest the lack of public input on most topics has left the department to rely on local conservation and hunting organizations to get feedback so the louder voices are being heard. The majority of the hunters just don't take the time to express themselves untill the action has already been taken and by then it's too late.

I could go on for days on this topic for all the legit reasons everyone mentioned along with the some pros of an introduction.

The department has been wanting to do this for years so It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Please attend the meeting or email the department with your feedback.

 

[NMhunter4life]

I have heard that the New Mexico chapter of the wild sheep foundation is against this proposal. As far as I know SNMSCI does not have a stance on this and I am not sure about the NM Wildlife federation.

 

[elkfanatic]

Here's another possible concern. Tell me what hunter is going to wait and identify this ram. Older rams are easy to tell. Youngers are much more difficult if you have a bad sun glare and can't see color. This is a 2 or 3 year old desert in Nevada.

 

[Oryxrus]

Good one.