Did Utah Gov. Elk or Deer tag ever get filled?

BLooDTRaCKeR

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1,672
I would hope so!

When you have the $$ to pay the “infesters fee” you can afford to send every guide and posse into the hills to harass the wildlife until the catch is secured!
Let’s be honest! When high dollars are involved, it’s a bounty hunt! Not an ethical pursuit!
 

Dang big

Active Member
Messages
167
I fail to see how it is unethical. Please elaborate.
The sale of gps coordinates, sitting on animals until hunter arrives. It goes on, it’s because of money and media. Ethics in this case are of a personal nature, but the look of how some of this is done is very questionable along with the lack of pride hunters must have to have everything found for them.
 

Vanilla

Very Active Member
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2,186
One bull was killed the day before the late rifle hunt started and guided by WLH. The other bull I just saw posted in the last day or two by NFO. I don’t know which had the sportsman vs governor tag.

I’ve only seen one of the bucks. Not sure which hunter it was that killed it. I loved that buck though. I know there was a discussion about it on another thread where some people where talking like it wasn’t a big deer. Crazy some of the crap that gets posted on this forum! That deer was bigger than any deer 80+% of us will ever even lay eyes on in the field, let alone get a chance to hunt. I liked that buck more than either of the bulls, even if score wise the bulls may be bigger, comparatively.

I would like to see the other buck. Not sure that I would ever post another picture on this forum, though. So when I draw the sportsman elk tag and shoot “only” a 400 inch bull, I’ll keep it to myself so as not to offend those that would think it’s a small bull.
 

Tristate

Long Time Member
Messages
6,402
The sale of gps coordinates, sitting on animals until hunter arrives. It goes on, it’s because of money and media. Ethics in this case are of a personal nature, but the look of how some of this is done is very questionable along with the lack of pride hunters must have to have everything found for them.
Money and pride doesn't make something unethical.

I make money am I unethical? I don't assume that someone who hires a guide do so because of a lack of pride. Maybe paying someone to cook you a nice dinner is lack of pride then. Maybe hiring a doctor to treat your cancer is just a pride issue. Maybe hiring a taxidermist to mount your animal for you shows you are having ethics issues related to your lack of pride. Wow its starting to look like every single person you know has questionable ethics.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
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5,134
I wondered that for a long time.

Killing the biggest animal $$ can buy, seems like an ego thing. But then they hire a fleet of bounty hunters to do it.

How does having that big head on your wall feel when you and everyone around knows you didnt do it? You flew in, got hauled to where ever, pulled a trigger, took some pics then flew out. Doesnt seem like much of an accomplishment, and not much of an ego builder

ID love the sportsmans tags. And no I wouldn't hire a guide. Be a blast to have the year, and the access.
 

Dang big

Active Member
Messages
167
Money and pride doesn't make something unethical.

I make money am I unethical? I don't assume that someone who hires a guide do so because of a lack of pride. Maybe paying someone to cook you a nice dinner is lack of pride then. Maybe hiring a doctor to treat your cancer is just a pride issue. Maybe hiring a taxidermist to mount your animal for you shows you are having ethics issues related to your lack of pride. Wow its starting to look like every single person you know has questionable ethics.
Please note,where I said this is of a personal nature and yes I personally believe that our newer generation of hunters have no pride and it’s all for grandstanding
 

BLooDTRaCKeR

Very Active Member
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1,672
The sale of gps coordinates, sitting on animals until hunter arrives. It goes on, it’s because of money and media. Ethics in this case are of a personal nature, but the look of how some of this is done is very questionable along with the lack of pride hunters must have to have everything found for them.
Agreed Dang big. My take on ethics is different than those with deep pockets. I don’t feel it is very ethical to pin an animal down until the hunter arrives OR bribe someone hunting the same animal to keep them out of the way for the high dollar client because what?! They’re more entitled to it because of the money at stake?! AND the publicity that the guide service will receive?? Take a look at that Arizona giant that rogue outdoorsman had on trail camera. He heard that the sammich shop guy was coming down to kill it and that a massive posse was camped on it so he went down there with the intention of liberating that animal by getting it to move out of the area. Instead he was approached and bribed with a replica of the bulls antlers before it ever hit the dirt as well as the “privilege” of tagging along and filming the kill shot. He was outnumbered and gave into option B rather than push the bull outta there and be able to ethically pursue it another day.

Folks can get into a pissing match all day over the definition of ethics. But at the end of the day, what would happen to every animal if it were pursued by an organized bounty hunting mass of people??? It’s ridiculous enough as it is with the guides out there trying to make a name for themselves!

I see no value in hanging a world-class trophy on the wall that I contributed absolutely nothing to except pull the trigger. What a waste of an experience (for me).
 

Dang big

Active Member
Messages
167
Money and pride doesn't make something unethical.

I make money am I unethical? I don't assume that someone who hires a guide do so because of a lack of pride. Maybe paying someone to cook you a nice dinner is lack of pride then. Maybe hiring a doctor to treat your cancer is just a pride issue. Maybe hiring a taxidermist to mount your animal for you shows you are having ethics issues related to your lack of pride. Wow its starting to look like every single person you
I
Money and pride doesn't make something unethical.

I make money am I unethical? I don't assume that someone who hires a guide do so because of a lack of pride. Maybe paying someone to cook you a nice dinner is lack of pride then. Maybe hiring a doctor to treat your cancer is just a pride issue. Maybe hiring a taxidermist to mount your animal for you shows you are having ethics issues related to your lack of pride. Wow its starting to look like every single person you know has questionable ethics.
Tri,
Is this any different than a personal opinion of ethics on shot placement?
 

Tristate

Long Time Member
Messages
6,402
So ethics is just some flexible term to hit people with that do stuff you don't like to do. Got it. Kind of like calling people a hypocrite or a racist. Few people actually know the meaning but it automatically makes you the winner in an argument of self righteousness.

I hunt on a place with a group of guys. Their hunting style differs from mine. I think it educates deer and makes them skiddish to other people. Pushes big deer out of areas others might like to hunt. I DON'T LIKE THEIR STYLE OF HUNTING. I don't question their ethics.
 

Tristate

Long Time Member
Messages
6,402
At some point you increase your risk and it turns you from a sportsman into a gambler. Taking unnecessary risky shots at smaller than necessary lethal zones is gambling with a public resource. Many religions and cultures actually consider that immoral and not just unethical.
 

Dang big

Active Member
Messages
167
At some point you increase your risk and it turns you from a sportsman into a gambler. Taking unnecessary risky shots at smaller than necessary lethal zones is gambling with a public resource. Many religions and cultures actually consider that immoral and not just unethical.
Interesting take, I appreciate your time, the more I read this I like it. Not that I agree with all of it personally I like it.
 

lif

Active Member
Messages
132
Money and pride doesn't make something unethical.

I make money am I unethical? I don't assume that someone who hires a guide do so because of a lack of pride. Maybe paying someone to cook you a nice dinner is lack of pride then. Maybe hiring a doctor to treat your cancer is just a pride issue. Maybe hiring a taxidermist to mount your animal for you shows you are having ethics issues related to your lack of pride. Wow its starting to look like every single person you know has questionable ethics.
They would definitely be unethical if you told everyone that you cooked the meal from the restaurant or cured your own cancer or mounted your own buck.
 

Vanilla

Very Active Member
Messages
2,186
How does having that big head on your wall feel when you and everyone around knows you didnt do it? You flew in, got hauled to where ever, pulled a trigger, took some pics then flew out. Doesnt seem like much of an accomplishment, and not much of an ego builder

Not all guided hunts are like this. There are guided hunts where the hunter works their butt off along with the guide. I know some of these big dollar hunts are not the way I describe either. You can’t paint with too broad of a brush on these topics.

I’ve actually thought a lot about if I’d hire a guide if I ever lucked out and drew a Sportsman tag. I probably would. Unless I was content simply hunting one unit and making a go of it, there is no way I could realistically or effectively cover more than just a single unit on my own. What fun is restricting yourself to a single unit on a statewide tag? Not 100% side either way, but I’d definitely be talking to a couple people to see cost, what they’d do, etc. I tip my hat to anyone that goes DIY and fulfills their own desires as well.

I do know there are people I’d avoid like the plague even if I wanted to hire a guide though. I don’t need the drama of unethical/illegal outfits.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,134
Not all guided hunts are like this. There are guided hunts where the hunter works their butt off along with the guide. I know some of these big dollar hunts are not the way I describe either. You can’t paint with too broad of a brush on these topics.

I’ve actually thought a lot about if I’d hire a guide if I ever lucked out and drew a Sportsman tag. I probably would. Unless I was content simply hunting one unit and making a go of it, there is no way I could realistically or effectively cover more than just a single unit on my own. What fun is restricting yourself to a single unit on a statewide tag? Not 100% side either way, but I’d definitely be talking to a couple people to see cost, what they’d do, etc. I tip my hat to anyone that goes DIY and fulfills their own desires as well.

I do know there are people I’d avoid like the plague even if I wanted to hire a guide though. I don’t need the drama of unethical/illegal outfits.

Not painting all guided hunts.

But the gov tags, and $$AI tag are pretty infamous for the guys that buy them, and the circus that follows
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,134
Can we get back to the animals? People fighting over ethics is REALLY old. Need to start sticking together or hunting won't happen at all!!

Any pics or links to the pics of the elk and deer? Love to see those big old animals.


"Im all for us being in the same boat, it would be nice if the guys in the front of the biat would quit poking holes in the bottom of it"

-Rinella


Go watch the Jimmy John video.

Then watch the Spider Bull video

Come back and tell everyone how either helps hunting.
 

BLooDTRaCKeR

Very Active Member
Messages
1,672
Not painting all guided hunts.

But the gov tags, and $$AI tag are pretty infamous for the guys that buy them, and the circus that follows
Yep, like that certain guide service that lives on the island because it is a guaranteed steady income. And somehow has managed to get trail cam privileges out there because of??? Money???

I think its great that folks can make a living off doing what they enjoy. But what are they gonna do once the majority of quality wildlife has been farmed out to high dollar clients? Start getting desperate and turn a regular hunt into a bounty?? Go into “survival of the fittest” mode and box out the average joe hunter?? Like is currently happening?? Our wildlife cannot sustain itself with the aggressive fortune and fame-driven guide services that are present and rising up. It’s a cut-throat world with some of the services out there.
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,666
Money and pride doesn't make something unethical.

I make money am I unethical? I don't assume that someone who hires a guide do so because of a lack of pride. Maybe paying someone to cook you a nice dinner is lack of pride then. Maybe hiring a doctor to treat your cancer is just a pride issue. Maybe hiring a taxidermist to mount your animal for you shows you are having ethics issues related to your lack of pride. Wow its starting to look like every single person you know has questionable ethics.
once again you're not true or relevant.
 

Tristate

Long Time Member
Messages
6,402
once again you're not true or relevant.
Just because you can't handle the truth doesn't make it any less true. The fact that you quote me from another thread in a weak attempt to attack me here pretty much proves I'm not only relevant but I am your master.

This is when you hear the whip crack.
 

Cold AC

Member
Messages
9
Not all guided hunts are like this. There are guided hunts where the hunter works their butt off along with the guide. I know some of these big dollar hunts are not the way I describe either. You can’t paint with too broad of a brush on these topics.

I’ve actually thought a lot about if I’d hire a guide if I ever lucked out and drew a Sportsman tag. I probably would. Unless I was content simply hunting one unit and making a go of it, there is no way I could realistically or effectively cover more than just a single unit on my own. What fun is restricting yourself to a single unit on a statewide tag? Not 100% side either way, but I’d definitely be talking to a couple people to see cost, what they’d do, etc. I tip my hat to anyone that goes DIY and fulfills their own desires as well.

I do know there are people I’d avoid like the plague even if I wanted to hire a guide though. I don’t need the drama of unethical/illegal outfits.
I've been on 3 guided hunts, 2 deer and 1 elk.. all 3 archery.

My experiences on EACH one has a lot of similarities, and a few differences.

The similarities, in no particular order.

I killed the animal on the last day of the hunt after hunting HARD... SUN UP TO SUN DOWN.. putting in hard grueling and very physically demanding days, one hunt was 5 days, one was 10, and one was 14 days. When your head hits the pillow from utter exhaustion, and that 5am alarm is WAY WAY too early... That's how these hunts were.

The animals harvested were much bigger than I would have been able to get if I would have been DIY.

They saved me a lot of time, and were in areas that I had never hunted before, and at that time, that was important to me.

The animals were shot at VERY LONG distances, much much further than I would in a normal year shoot. BUT, because they were "big tags" I practiced like crazy and was comfortable. All 3 well over 60 yards.

The "experience" was the "killing of the animal". That is the prime objective of the hunt. NOT like when I hunt w my buddies, there is much more "campfire talk" "BSn and giving each other **it, laughter and joking around, etc.... There was NONE of that, it was all about the business of killing these animals.

Each one used radios. 2 of the 3 animals are big enough for B&C, and I have elected to not enter because of MY ethics of using the radios. IF radios wouldn't have been used, these animals would have not died w my arrow.

EACH ONE, also had "a negative"

And that negative, still has left a sour taste in my mouth, and I now have 8 points for an elk, and can probably draw a decent tag w/in the next few years, and as much as I think about getting another guide, that sour taste keeps coming back.

One was a dispute over money, one there was a misunderstanding of who was to do the taxidermy, and one was just about a 'go to blows' session on the side of the mountain.

So, THAT has been MY EXPERIENCE with UTAH guides.
 

deerslayer88

Very Active Member
Messages
1,010
I've been on 3 guided hunts, 2 deer and 1 elk.. all 3 archery.

My experiences on EACH one has a lot of similarities, and a few differences.

The similarities, in no particular order.

I killed the animal on the last day of the hunt after hunting HARD... SUN UP TO SUN DOWN.. putting in hard grueling and very physically demanding days, one hunt was 5 days, one was 10, and one was 14 days. When your head hits the pillow from utter exhaustion, and that 5am alarm is WAY WAY too early... That's how these hunts were.

The animals harvested were much bigger than I would have been able to get if I would have been DIY.

They saved me a lot of time, and were in areas that I had never hunted before, and at that time, that was important to me.

The animals were shot at VERY LONG distances, much much further than I would in a normal year shoot. BUT, because they were "big tags" I practiced like crazy and was comfortable. All 3 well over 60 yards.

The "experience" was the "killing of the animal". That is the prime objective of the hunt. NOT like when I hunt w my buddies, there is much more "campfire talk" "BSn and giving each other **it, laughter and joking around, etc.... There was NONE of that, it was all about the business of killing these animals.

Each one used radios. 2 of the 3 animals are big enough for B&C, and I have elected to not enter because of MY ethics of using the radios. IF radios wouldn't have been used, these animals would have not died w my arrow.

EACH ONE, also had "a negative"

And that negative, still has left a sour taste in my mouth, and I now have 8 points for an elk, and can probably draw a decent tag w/in the next few years, and as much as I think about getting another guide, that sour taste keeps coming back.

One was a dispute over money, one there was a misunderstanding of who was to do the taxidermy, and one was just about a 'go to blows' session on the side of the mountain.

So, THAT has been MY EXPERIENCE with UTAH guides.
What’s the difference between a radio and your buddy drinking a brewski and calling ya on the celly telling you there’s a huge elk a canyon over?
 

Cold AC

Member
Messages
9
What’s the difference between a radio and your buddy drinking a brewski and calling ya on the celly telling you there’s a huge elk a canyon over?
Very good point, and the difference is subtle..

But..

TO ME, when a spotter is taking pictures w their cell phone, circling where you are and the deer, and sending it back, and talking you in real time on the radio, and the other spotter is watching a nearby group of other deer making sure they don't bust... there's a difference

But, your point is well taken.
 

Vanilla

Very Active Member
Messages
2,186
Just for you, cantkill!

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