DIY Sheep in California

H

HirschHunter

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-13 AT 10:24AM (MST)[p]Is it possible or rather with hard work and scouting is it likely to be successful (not pipe dream successful)?

I don't have the type of money for guides, especially sheep guides, but I want to kill one, especially here in California some day. However, everything I read about sheep hunting in California is that you need a guide. Just wondering if there are any of you hardcore DIY guys like myself that have chased sheep in CA with success, or if that idea is nuts... I guess I might need to consider alternatives.

BTW, my name's Aaron, and I am a newb here for sure. Referred to this site from a gentleman I call friend, who runs the outfit Taws Taxidermy.

Thanks for looking guys and I am looking forward to participating on this forum with y'all.
 
I have never been on a California sheep hunt but what I figure everyone's talk about you needing a guide is because of the fact it's basically a once in a lifetime tag and you don't want to come home empty handed.
If I had the tag I wouldn't sweat it because I have enough vacation time to take a month plus off so I know I will find my self a sheep, but a lot of folks probable are limited in time.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-13 AT 01:54PM (MST)[p]

Ask yourself a few questions...

Do you want to kill a real big ram and not just any ram? Do you lack the time or ability to scout and study/read about sheep habits, field judging, etc.? And/or do you lack the time for an extended multi day hunt? Do you have the necssary equipment -- high end optics and the knowlege and experience using them -- camp gear for cold and windy weather -- 4x4 vehicle and recovery gear -- confidence being in desolate country alone?

Outside of that, you do not NEED a guide. Now, wanting one is a whole 'nother question, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

On my CA sheep hunt, I hunted for weeks unguided and could have rifle shot multiple book rams on my own. But I was bowhunting and wanted to maximize my chances, so I hired a guide and have no regrets. In the end I ran low on time so I pulled out a rifle and killed a nice ram. I wanted a guide, and was glad to have his crew helping, but at no point throughout the hunt did I feel like I personally NEEDED one. Your mileage may vary.
 
If you're in good shape and are good at glassing I think the hardest part would be judging them. If I draw I will undoubtedly go unguided. For me, that is what hunting is about...plan, prepare, DIY. Hiring a guide takes these away and it just wouldn't be the same for me. I have a couple of friends that will be there just as I'd be there for their hunt.

I may never draw a CA sheep tag, but if I do I would do a scouting trip in Oct and two in Nov in order to be ready for the hunt in December. There's also no substitute for having the right gear and being prepared. This goes for everything...sleeping bag to your rangefinder. If you have cheap and/or beat up gear it may fail on you and ruin your hunt and cause you to make a run to the nearest town to pick up a replacement. Out there in the desert you also better set up your base camp to withstand 100 mph winds, because it can be a rodeo out there.
 
My dad drew the Old Dads tag in 88. I was 10 years old. I saw rams every day with him (just us two). An awesome hunt that I still have memories of. I think you'll be fine on your own, a guide would just boost your odds at a bigger ram. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Gotta draw a tag first, then weigh your options at that time. I am sure you'd have a few peeps willing to tag along and help you out.
 
"Do you want to kill a real big ram and not just any ram?" Killing a record book ram, would not be a neccessity. I'm not a trophy hunter, at least not yet. The experience, and the chance to harvest one, that's what wins me over size. Nothing wrong with trophy hunters, I'm just not geared that way. I'd feel just as good with a decent legal ram as I would about a trophy class ram.

"Do you lack the time or ability to scout and study/read about sheep habits, field judging, etc.?"
This is a question I am not sure if I know all the answers to, in regards to how demanding of one's time for scouting. I have time available, though scouting would be cutting into my waterfowl hunting, I could easily forego hunting ducks to find me some rams. I'm a constant student of the game I pursue and the one's I want to pursue. Field judging, that would take some experience looking at some rams in the field, but my parameters would be set by DFG regs.

"And/or do you lack the time for an extended multi day hunt?" Got vacation to burn, and by the time I would draw a tag, I should have a whole lot more.

"Do you have the necssary equipment -- high end optics and the knowlege and experience using them -- camp gear for cold and windy weather -- 4x4 vehicle and recovery gear -- confidence being in desolate country alone?" I've got the 4x4 pickup and an Arctic CAT TRV. Desolate country is somewhat comforting to me, and I'm pretty good with eyes and glass. From what I gather, chasing sheep requires a lot of glass time.
 
My motto for hunting, fishing, and camping gear is to buy once and buy the best. I've put a lot of research into backcountry gear, especially lightweight all season backpacking gear. The 100 MPH winds, that's something I would definitely have to prepare for. :)
 
Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate the tips and knowledge you are sharing with me.
 
For those that have gone guided in California what are they charging?
You can P.M. me if you'd rather not post on the forum.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-13 AT 10:52PM (MST)[p]If you want to hunt a ram, you had better do a lot more than just apply in CA and hope. With roughly 1 : 700 draw odds, figure less than 1 : 10 people who apply for 60 consecutive years will ever draw. Even top pool odds are like 1 : 180 so the vast majority of top pool applicants will die first, assuming they even keep the most tags to first in club pyramisd scheme that long.
 
I have never hunted sheep and don't guess I'll ever be that lucky, but I do have to say, I would be happier with a good ram that I killed myself than with a great ram that I had to pay for. Perhaps I am just tight! Good luck on the draw.
 
+1 to the good ram on your own being worth more! If you do get lucky on the draw, odds are that it will be your only shot at a desert ever, even if you apply in all states that have them every year of your life. You want to make it mean the most to you. If I had one on the wall, I might consider getting help on the next, but first putting a good representative mature one that is all yours ROCKS! It's not like you are going to have to beat your best...
 
So what does a California resident do to improve his odds for a sheep hunt if applying in this state is barely a possibility?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-13 AT 05:04PM (MST)[p]The big advantage to having a guide is that he probably already knows where to start looking for ANY ram. That can save you a lot of time and groundwork.

I guess I should have added that the reason most tag holders fail to fill is that they never found ANY ram to shoot.

This is also true with most unfilled tule elk tags.

A knowledgeable guide can put you within 2 miles of your animal and walk away. That hardly constitutes " hunting for you" .......

Draw a "once ever" tag and blow it ......you will regret that forever.

"Being an idiot is NOT an art form. Give it up!"
 
If you have the time, optics and physical ability you will find sheep. Judging them will be a different story though.

There's not much you can do in CA to improve your odds of drawing a sheep tag and if you'r not in the max point pool you are at an even bigger disadvantage. What ElmerFudd is saying...to improve your odds on going on at least one sheep hunt in your lifetime you should be applying for every sheep hunt in the USA. I do something like this, but restrict it to all the desert bighorn hunts (CA, NV, UT, AZ and NM). I don't do CO.
 
I was just sent pics of some dead rams from the Kelso/Old Dad epidemic and will try to get them posted up later. Apparently the disease outbreak was from a domestic sheep that was released in the area. Not sure how this is going to impact the hunt this year. If you put in for this zone, stay on top of this news!
 
They need to kill the domestic sheep and kill any sick looking BHS and pray for the best. Loosing more CA BHS tags would be a bad deal for all of us. What we need to do is get a couple more units open and I'm glad to see CA Wild Sheep and their efforts to do just that. Refer to the top of their Facebook page for their goal:

https://www.facebook.com/californiawildsheep?fref=ts
 
Great topic. The trophy is in the eye of the hunter for most of us ,hunting and harvesting a great animal regardless or the score is the way I do it .For me hunting without a guide is the only way I do it ,unless they wanna come alone as a friend. If you ever draw a great tag , you will have friends more than willing to help out. Research is the key.
I have drawn a sheep tag in oregon . A guide said ,you really need a guide to do this unless your some kind of superman, bull#$%@.Well I did lose my truck of a cliff , but that could of happen anywhere. If you go with a guide then there goes enjoying a once in a life time hunt with out friends. To me this is what its all about
If you go guided then they will hunt your animal and you can shoot it, then they can skin it and pack it for you.. Iam not bashing guides at all but I will keep my 5,000-8,000 and hunt more states with it.
They are hard to judge when you get right down to it and can live in some nasty stuff , but if you look at a few rams then you kinda get a good Idea.
There are some good guides here if you ever do go that way.Arron, you know I will be there for you bud when you get lucky on a sheep tag . Good luck to all on the draw, maybe one of us will have a sheep tag this year.
 
The new CA sheep zone tags are going to be printed on the back side of the new mountain lion tags.

Lead bullets, dogs, handguns, crossbows and stealth equipped drones, are permitted.

This video game...."DFG HUNT".....will be available soon, coming to a Walmart near you!

"Being an idiot is NOT an art form. Give it up!"
 
HEY TAWSTAXI.......CONGRATS ON THE OREGON SHEEP TAG, THATS A TUFF TAG TO DRAW. CAN YOU PUT UP A PIC OF YOUR RAM???? THANKS.........YD.
 
Yes, if you actually want to hunt sheep, basically apply everywhere and spend lots of application dollars. Try for best draw odds at least until you get one. You should draw a ram tag somewhere someday if you keep at it. Rockys are easier to draw than deserts. You can't go hunting without a tag. These are not CA rams, but I have drawn twice so far, ID in 99 and WY last year. Both are solo backpack rams. The ID one was absolutely the toughest hunt of my life, mentally and physically. I went for draw odds on that one. But yes, you can hunt sheep on your own.

3969idram.jpg


874812_ram_brushg.jpg
 
Right on EF! Great looking rams too, DIY in the backcountry, that sounds like a blast!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-13 AT 01:45PM (MST)[p]

Some of what is being said here is not at all accurate about hiring a guide. Can the guide hold your hand and do all the hard work for you? yes, but a guided hunt can also be what you make of it. It doesn't have to take all the work and reward out of it at all. You can work just as hard as you would on a DIY hunt. I did.

I killed my ram when my main guide was 50 miles away, looking at another part of the unit, per my request. My own brother, not the guide, glassed up and found the ram I killed as I was hiking back from a blown stalk with my bow. And I'm 99% sure it is the same ram that my brother also found while scouting on our own, weeks before the season started. I packed most of my own ram off the mountain. I had already hunted for weeks on my own in the area where I killed, knew it well, and wanted my outfitter off looking at other areas I hadn't yet explored. I couldn't be everywhere at once and felt my money was better spent not having all my help looking over the same areas as me. I also had my own camp, my own truck, my own food, my own 4 wheeler and my own quality optics. I only hired a guide, after hunting for a while DIY, because I wanted to maximize my limited time, not because I wanted someone to do all the work for me. Does that make mine a lesser hunt? Hell no! I could have killed a book ram 20 minutes into opening day, and almost did with my bow, and many others, but I chose to hunt my way. I made my hunt what I wanted and that happened to include an outfitter. I know in my heart I earned my ram. It was not bought. A guided hunt can still be done with hard work, determination, and reward, contrary to what some here would lead you to believe.

For what it's worth, I hunted 16 days with a bow before killing, and scouted another 6 or 8 days prior to that. And I spent hours and hours on the phone talking with everyone I could about the unit. The time commitment is considerable, and yes with a 2 yr old wildman and mama pregnant at the time, it almost cost me a divorce!
 
It's not about just going out and shooting a Ram. Any of us are likely capable of finding a legal ram in any of the California units. The idea is with such a limited tag and a great sheep program...you owe it to the animals and the program to shoot a mature animal.

I have hunted sheep, but I am not a sheep hunter. You will want to be capable of a quick judgement in the field of a very hard to field judge animal. Shooting an immature animal or possibly a not even legal animal should not be an option.

If you want to do it yourself sure you are capable, but put in the time to be an accurate judge of sheep. To go out and shoot a immature sheep that has a chance to mature into a record book animal is a shame. Now don't get me wrong there are mature animals that do not have the genetics to be a record book animal.
Notice the term record book animal,,,yes a trophy animal is always the choice of the pursuer/hunter.

Sheep are a micro managed species and deserve an opportunity to reach maturity. California's sheep population are in good shape and mature animals are readily available in every unit.

Good luck however you hunt them,,,I am a guide and yes I hired a guide and shot a record book Ram 10 plus years old.

DM


Don't shoot til your ready!
 
Bottom line, it is your choice what to do with your tag if you get lucky enough to draw. Just don't ruin the fun based on other people's standards. That means everything. What makes you happy, your budget, your time available, ect. Unlike deer where you might feel you have to beat your last or whatever standard, odds are it will be the only desert ram on te wall for you and all your buddies. There will likely be nothing to compare it to. A mature ram will look good on most walls. Have fun!
 
>Bottom line, it is your choice
>what to do with your
>tag if you get lucky
>enough to draw. Just don't
>ruin the fun based on
>other people's standards. That means
>everything. What makes you happy,
>your budget, your time available,
>ect. Unlike deer where you
>might feel you have to
>beat your last or whatever
>standard, odds are it will
>be the only desert ram
>on te wall for you
>and all your buddies. There
>will likely be nothing to
>compare it to. A mature
>ram will look good on
>most walls. Have fun!


"Just don't ruin the fun based on other peoples standards."

Best advice on this thread and probably the best advice I've ever heard on the subject.
 

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