Don't waste your time with Cali this year...

mulebuck

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Just wondering if you guys have seen the new June Huntin' Tool yet? Ol' Jason Carter really tops himself in his 'The way I see it' write-up. Now I know Cali isn't the best in the West but damn, someone please ask Jason to ease up with the choke out on our state.
If you haven't seen it, or don't get the mag I'll be happy to quote his words of wisdom upon request.

Initially when reading the article I was pleased with his negativity towards Cali. The less attention the better for us residents, right? Well then I remembered our state is broke and needs all the help it can get. I'm sure there will be even fewer non-residents applying this year thanks to his comments.

Always remember: "CA doesn't have giant deer so there again, why apply?".... oh and that's just 'generally speaking' by the way. What an ass!

On a positive note, I did enjoy the G3 buck and bighorn sheep articles. Congrats to those lucky hunters!
 
I've been a resident for over 50 years & have max points for all but deer.If I was a non-resident I wouldn't waste my money on California because of crappy draw odds on elk & sheep.We have great blacktails but not much else worth the long odds.His statement was pretty accurate!
David
 
"Generally speaking..." is a pretty general term. That's like a bail out phrase. Most of the deer in Cali has some blacktail in it so we are not known as a mule deer state. I'm assuming Garth Carter focuses mainly on the mule deer. So, by him saying we don't have big deer he's probably meaning mule deer. We are a blacktail state and if a non-res wants to shoot a blacktail, I think we're the state they'd come to.

Steve
 
Carters an ##### . Made it hard to draw some just because this guy say put in for it. reseach ya right! its the same thing as outdoor life, sports afield, petersons ..really!(thats where I found out about the Paunsagunt,unit 2b in NM, Area 102 in WY and it was only a couple bucks each). His mag ruined some draws like area 102 im WY(from 200 to over 900 in a year....) just wonder how much longer his mag holds on!
hope he end up washing cars for a living!
God I hate when people can't do anything for themselves and it so easy!
Lets keep the blackies for ourselves screw him! bad enough we have to deal with the folks at Hunting and Fishing News! seems every year there hanging out DFG looking at tags dropped off when I get my duck hunting pass, stamps!
time to get off my horse!

4a03d572639d0132.jpg


Rackmaster
 
Talking muleys, there's half a dozen zones along the Northern East part of the State that are worth getting a tag for, some harder than others to draw depending how close to max points you are. I believe there is a chance at a great buck in any of these zones and the hunting could be as decent or better than a "General" tag in a lot of states. I don't hunt the country from Tahoe south but i'd imagine a guy could do well there too.

Most guys i know hunt harder when they go out of state on a hunt than they do when they draw a tag here. Why? i don't know but there's some good country here and if you scout, spend the time, and hunt it hard, like a guy might on a out of state hunt, you could pull a pretty decent buck, maybe even a dandy!

As far as that guys recommendation, can't see how it hurts Cali much one way or the other. Wiz is right though, Cali is all about our Blacktails, a guys best chance at pulling a real trophy or even maybe a "book" buck!.

Joey
 
I saw the article......and actually, I thought he was pretty spot on.

Why would a non-resident really want to put in here? There's only one NR elk tag available (that's ALL species), one sheep tag, one antelope tag (that aren't that big compared to other states), and much smaller than average mule deer in terms of B&C scoring. Yes, there are a few nice mule deer bucks taken each year, but nothing like other Western states.

Now Columbian Blacktail opportunities are a different story. We have some of the best in North America, which I believe he indicated. He even went to say most are taken off of private ranches......again probably true. But he missed it a bit on some of the public land opportunities......which is fine by me. :)

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
I'm a Cali res, and would kinda agree with Jason. Cali and Oregon have little predator management. The mnt lions are completly outa control. Even here in central Cal ,the blackies are taking a big hit.
I hear the lions are now migrating into Nev,as they have decimated the deer herd in Northeastern Cali
 
LAST EDITED ON May-12-09 AT 00:26AM (MST)[p]His #2 pick for AZ desert sheep was 44bn and said it was the EASYIST hunt in the state with 170"-180" potential. I think his statements are a little misleading about being easy. Also what he said in last years article about unit recommendations he stated 44bn only has 160" rams and the 170" class ram killed in 07' was pretty much a fluke. It's pretty funny how a unit can go from one of the crappiest units in the state to the #2 pick in one year. I can only imagine where the every body is going to be putting in this year. The easy unit with 170"-180" rams.
 
I haven't checked but does anyone know what it costs a non-res to put in for each species? Does California want the $$ upfront like Nevada does? How much is it just for a point? Do you have to purchase a license in order to get a point? Just curious.


Steve
 
C'mon Roy, "spot on"? Okay, I'll agree with you but only in regards to elk, sheep, and pronghorn. Obviously the odds are chit. But if you're applying for deer, what's another $7.50 app fee to apply for these species.

It just amuses me how someone, in this case Jason, who more than likey doesn't know much about deer in Cali can make the statements as he did. "No giant deer in CA"? What would you call the 260" slob taken in D7? And that buck wasn't even a true mule deer. If it was he's score more like 300".

Like Sage said, I believe that Cali has some great opportunity whether your hunting muleys or blackies. You do have to work your ass off to find them though.
I applied all 5 years as a non-res when I was living in NV. And when I move back there, you can bet I'll continue that. I guess I just see it different because I've hunted Cali my whole life and I believe that there is indeed, potential here.

Wiz: CA also plays the point game. So, for a non-res to even apply it's $143 for the license. If you don't get your first choice you are awarded a point and you keep the license.
Elk, sheep, and goat are $7.50 per app. You'll only be charged the tag fee if you're drawn.
The last time I did it, I'm pretty sure you still have to buy the non-res deer app for $243 up front. If your not drawn you get refunded.
Jason makes sure to point out that the license is non-refundable. Well sure, it is but haven't we all gotten used to that. CO is that only state that I'm aware of where you get everything back if unsuccessful.
 
Quote: "It just amuses me how someone, in this case Jason, who more than likey doesn't know much about deer in Cali can make the statements as he did. "No giant deer in CA"? What would you call the 260" slob taken in D7? And that buck wasn't even a true mule deer. If it was he's score more like 300"."

One or two deer don't necessarily make us a trophy potential state. There are a few taken, including two over 300" many years ago, but the odds are VERY low that this will occur. And they were mule deer.

Here are the raw statistics about California in terms of record class mule deer. Remember, that's what the Huntin Fool is geared towards.....the trophy hunter who wants to go to other states and have a decent chance at killing a trophy caliber buck.

For P&Y (which is a much lower minimum than B&C) there were only five bucks (3 typical and 2 non-typical) that made the record book during the 26th recording period. There are only 77 EVER recorded into P&Y from the Golden State (66 typical and 11 non-typical). Those are extremely low numbers based on the amount of mule deer that inhabit the state. Now compare that to Colorado (1076 total) and Utah (632 total) and you see a significant difference for trophy potential.

B&C odds are even worse.......to date, there are 9 mule deer in the all-time book (3 typical and 6 non-typical). Many of them were killed years ago.

Now, as I stated earlier....Columbian Blacktail are a different story. I think he missed the ball a bit in this area. Sure there are monsters on private ranches, but I still feel the Golden State is your best opportunity to take a record class Blacktail on public land than anywhere else. Oregon leads the way in P&Y with 377 total entires but CA is closely behind them with 348 entries. I beleive the reason is that most bowhunts in CA are not during the rut, where OR is.

I've bowhunted CA my whole life and think it's a great state to hunt. But if I was an out-of-stater, I wouldn't apply for mule deer here. JMO.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
GLC- Even though I know where you're coming from I'm gonna have to agree with Roy. CA, on average, does not possess the caliber of bucks Jason and many HF subcribers look for. Why would a nonres put in for the "best hunt in the state" against insane odds - all for a chance at a 160" buck?

Jason and Garth both have said the same thing at their Hunt Expo seminar the past two years. I sat there wondering what's this guy was talking about?...how could he make such a broad statement without firsthand experience? But in a way it does make sense. IMO it's not an effecient plan for a nonres guy with a lot of "trophy" hunts on his plate to worry about Cali.

Besides, the $7.50 app fee isn't going to fix anything in this state.
 
California is just like all other states in the sense that they want money up front and will kick it back if unsuccessful...AND you have to buy the license. I kinda expected that anyway from Ca seeing how we're the most expensive state to live in.

By the way, Colorado does not give a full refund if unsuccessful. I think they keep around $30.


Steve
 
Lions got them all! There's no mule deer here so don't bother putting for the northern X zones. Waste of time!! :)

Roy, Much due respect and no offense please, But i'm getting the feeling from your and other's comments that there's not good muley hunting in Kali. I understand that you're are talking about the worth of Non-Residents coming here and you're talking about "book" animals but having hunted for, what i consider, trophy's for many years, a big buck is a big buck and "trophy", to me, doesn't have to be about weather or not it scores enough to qualify for the book.

Though the numbers are still way down, i've seen a few dandy bucks in these zones and have friends that have taken what i consider toad bucks from them. As mentioned above, i believe, most guys who draw out on a "good tag" don't take advantage of their opportunity by either not putting in the needed effort, before and during the hunt, or shooting the first legal buck they see.

In any event, for us California guys, it's what we have in the way of a chance at what i consider a "trophy" mule deer at a reasonable hunt cost. The "trophy" being relevant. It is a Cali Buck after all.

Joey
 
granted it isnt what it used to be ,,,, but i've seen some reallyyyyyyyyyy big critters in X-2 and X-3b and almost as many in X-1 i'm with Joey on this one
 
MULEBUCK,
Is Jason wrong? California is so jacked up it isnt funny. They need to manage the wildlife and not the people. But that's hard to do when the fish and game generated revenue gets put into on big money pot and never gets put back into the wildlife. Califorinia has maybe 5-6 good hunts the rest well...Jason said it.

Would you pay $143.35 for a non-resident license and $242.80 for a deer tag for the grand total of $386.15!! just to hunt A,B or D zones and if your lucky after multipule years of applying an X zone, not to mention to money invested after years of pplying for that X zone.

It may hurt but California isnt even close in the game. The do have some oppurtunity, but I say that as a resident only paying $40.00 and $37.00.

Also, thats why I subscribe to the "huntin Fool" they say it the way it is.
 
I am a past resident of Cali who gets transferred around by my employer. As a mediocre wage earner, I have to really analyze where I am going to put in to provide me with the most opportunity to have a quality hunt. First and foremost, when the blacktail bug finally gets me so badly that I have to succumb to the disease, I will hunt Cali.
However, paying $143 for a tag that I guarantee will be useless to me just to apply for a 1 in a million shot at 1 measly elk tag and one measly (measly repeated for emphasis) sheep tag, I have to put my money on something that will generate more of a return than Cali.
Since I am involuntarily moved, I never get the chance to build up points to compete in any state's PP or BP program as a resident. With Cali being so expensive to apply, and me being so far behind in the point chasing game, there is no incentive for me to apply in Cali.
I know that thousands of Cali hunters do a mad exodus come hunting season from Cali to MT, ID, CO, WY and other western states that give good to great opportunities to Cali's and other NR's. Their NR application fees go a lot further for other western states and the number of Cali plates all over the West during hunting season prove that point. I am willing to bet that Cali's take more big game animals out of state that they do in state.
With proof like I listed above, I have to agree with many of the above posters, and Jason Carter: Cali is just too expensive for the miniscule odds of drawing one of the tags for one of the unique animals that Cali is so graced to have. I will concede that Cali does have some good hunting for deer (both blackies and muleys) and if you are lucky enough to draw a Tule or desert sheep tag, Cali is the bomb. But for the cost of the hunt, with limited opportunities, generally small animals (blacktail excluded), and hiring a lawyer to figure out all the regulations, I can have a much better experience for a lot less money elsewhere.
I think Cali is a great place, just not to apply and hunt.
My 2 cents, for what it is worth.
WyMo
 
>MULEBUCK,
>Is Jason wrong?

>Would you pay $143.35 for a
>non-resident license and $242.80 for
>a deer tag for the
>grand total of $386.15!!

>Also, thats why I subscribe to
>the "huntin Fool" they say
>it the way it is.



No, he's mostly accurate. I just disagree with a couple of his comments. I will say; for a non-res without max points that knows nothing about the state, it would definitely be a waste of time to apply.

Would I pay...? I sure would, as I stated earlier. But then again I grew up here and I know where to go.

We all could go round and round with this. One thing we can all agree on is that our state is indeed FAR behind compared to the other western states. Sure, Huntin' Fool says it the way it is but I for one don't need a glossy mag from the Carters to tell me what to apply for in each state.
 
RACK, how do you really feel??? I wasn't quite sure. :)

I wouldn't do it and I apply in 8 states. Kali would be on my "Not me" list if I didn't live here.
 

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