DWR dedicated hunter apologies

[all4freedom]

Anyone else get the “apology email” stating the dedicated hunter unit you applied for was full from past years applicants thus there were no tags available to be drawn this year? They are offering a refund for the application yet you’ll lose your dedicated hunter preference points if you take the refund. I would have applied for a general permit had they made it clear their heads were up their ass when the application period was open.
Utah just can’t seem to get much of anything right.

 

[deerkiller]

The email is a good start, but there’s no way they should suggest losing the point if you take the refund. This is their big boner move. They need to make it right. Refund the money and let the hunters have the free bonus point. I’m sure this isn’t over, I wouldn’t doubt if some pissed lawyers threatened lawsuits. Which they very much had a case to do so

 

[JakeH]

Its $10 take the hit and stop b!tch!ng about it. geeze people you act like they took a couple Hundred dollars from you.

And why the hell didnt you put in for a general tag anyway? Sounds like you didn't plan very well to me.

Yes it sucks there wasn't any tags, but what the hell did you want them to do? The quota was met. get over it, and figure something else out.

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

Bunch of cry babies when they don't get a tag but brag like they own the mountain when they do.
You are adults act like it, did you cry when you dont get a participant ribbon either?

 

[Muleman1]

On the phone they told me it was a type-o

 

[ridgetops]

I guess we can plan on seeing another box to check on next years application form. Stating if tags are reduced on any given unit, there will be less DH tags available and possible no tags available if the 15 percent allotment is already filled by existing hunters/ tag holders.

 

[deerkiller]

And why the hell didnt you put in for a general tag anyway? Sounds like you didn't plan very well to me.

Ah, you see, this is a great point. There’s a lot of guys out there that are pushing for only being able to apply for 1 application, GS or DH. I’m sure many people did apply for both, but what if they didn’t have that option? Then that’s an even bigger mess

what else do we want them to do you ask? We want them to have the permit numbers published to the public before the application period ends. That’s what we want them to do. Pretty simple. The majority of the other states can do it. Utah could too if they really cared

 

[deerkiller]

On the phone they told me it was a type-o

Haha that’s the best part. When they screw up they just lie to you about it. Get enough people to call bullchit, then they come up with a half ass apology, but still won’t fix the issue

 

[all4freedom]

I guess you completely missed the point. Why offer the hunt as a draw option if there are zero tags available?

 

[all4freedom]

Bunch of cry babies when they don't get a tag but brag like they own the mountain when they do.
You are adults act like it, did you cry when you dont get a participant ribbon either?

Not sure who you’re posting that reply too.

 

[ridgetops]

I guess you completely missed the point. Why offer the hunt as a draw option if there are zero tags available?

I think your right. The real "type o" was having the DH hunt available in the application options. I'm completely on board to have the proposed tag numbers available a few weeks before the draw deadline.

 

[Castnshoot]

I think maybe guys should be bitching about them selling tags for animals that do not even exist.

 

[deerkiller]

I think maybe guys should be bitching about them selling tags for animals that do not even exist.

Which tags are they selling for animals that don’t exist? ?

 

[rmanwill]

Dedicated has always been a total number. The amount issued each year is the number that hit their 3 years before and drop out with some change in added or subtracted permits on unit.

Points needed to draw dedicated change from zero to as much as 3 each year due to this.

If a person knew thier desired dedicated unit was full, most would purchase a point for the following year and put in for general tag somewhere and hope to hunt this year.

Pretty much that is what happened. You recieved a point.

If you did not apply for a general tag also sorry. I do this every time dedicated comes up. Dedicated draws before general so you would get dedicated if numbers are available before general, but have a chance at general if you stick out on dedicated.

Helps to know the rules and play what they allow you to play ?

 

[deerkiller]

Dedicated has always been a total number. The amount issued each year is the number that hit their 3 years before and drop out with some change in added or subtracted permits on unit.

Points needed to draw dedicated change from zero to as much as 3 each year due to this.

If a person knew thier desired dedicated unit was full, most would purchase a point for the following year and put in for general tag somewhere and hope to hunt this year.

Pretty much that is what happened. You recieved a point.

If you did not apply for a general tag also sorry. I do this every time dedicated comes up. Dedicated draws before general so you would get dedicated if numbers are available before general, but have a chance at general if you stick out on dedicated.

Helps to know the rules and play what they allow you to play ?

It also helps to know if tags will even be offered for the hunt you are applying for, so you can adjust your plans/applications accordingly.

the difference between this situation and others similar to it, is this year EVERYONE who applied for dedicated tags, was under the impression that there was at least 1 tag available for every unit. That’s a scam and unethical business if I’ve ever heard of one.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Agree 100% that Utah needs to show permit #’s for all available hunts before the application deadline. Having a deadline in March and results in May is so ridiculous. There are these really cool things called computers that can run an entire state’s draw in short order. Let’s try that!!

I would recommend everyone emailing all wildlife board members and flood them with pressure to get this changed.

 

[llamapacker]

This really isn't any different than the bait and switch they pulled on bison tags last year. Remember how they gave everyone who had a wild horse bench tag a second year to hunt, thereby reducing the tags available for the next year to nothing? All those who applied for Wild horse bench that year wasted their application, but did get a point.
Utah pulls this crap in one form or another almost every year. Most of the time it is NR's who get the shaft, so there is little complaining. Let the dedicated hunters come up short for once, and the whining has kicked up to another level.
To be clear, the DWR screwed up again, and some hunters got the shaft. I actually kind of support the whining, because I'd like to think things will improve.
But I doubt it.
Bill

 

[deerkiller]

This really isn't any different than the bait and switch they pulled on bison tags last year. Remember how they gave everyone who had a wild horse bench tag a second year to hunt, thereby reducing the tags available for the next year to nothing? All those who applied for Wild horse bench that year wasted their application, but did get a point.
Utah pulls this crap in one form or another almost every year. Most of the time it is NR's who get the shaft, so there is little complaining. Let the dedicated hunters come up short for once, and the whining has kicked up to another level.
To be clear, the DWR screwed up again, and some hunters got the shaft. I actually kind of support the whining, because I'd like to think things will improve.
But I doubt it.
Bill

Again, even in the wild horse bench scenario, there was still at least 1 tag available for that drawing. In this case there was ZERO.

 

[dogvalleymule]

It also helps to know if tags will even be offered for the hunt you are applying for, so you can adjust your plans/applications accordingly.

the difference between this situation and others similar to it, is this year EVERYONE who applied for dedicated tags, was under the impression that there was at least 1 tag available for every unit. That’s a scam and unethical business if I’ve ever heard of one.

Quit crying and live with it

 

[deerkiller]

Quit crying and live with it

I have a deer tag, no crying about anything. Pissed the DWR keeps doing shady chit with no accountability on their end.

take your opinion and stick it somewhere personal!

 

[dogvalleymule]

Then quit crying, a lot of people not hunters like to *****, they act like a bunch of old ladies

 

[kittykiller]

Those of you who didn't draw the Oquirrh-Stansbury DH tag, the DWR just did you a favor. I've had that tag for the past three years and I can say with 100% certainty that unit sucks pretty bad. I saw far more hunters than I did deer. I wouldn't take that tag again for free.

 

[dogvalleymule]

Let's open the hunting up and sell tags over the counter, so every one can hunt where they want.

 

[JakeH]

So how many of you guys that are advocating for the tags to be listed before you put in even know that they addressed this issues at the November Rac meetings and made a presentation as to why it is the way it is?

There is a video of Lindy explaining the entire draw process from start to finish and why they have everything the way they do.

Maybe you all should look it up, should be in the packet for last Novembers Rac meeting.

 

[elkhunterUT]

So how many of you guys that are advocating for the tags to be listed before you put in even know that they addressed this issues at the November Rac meetings and made a presentation as to why it is the way it is?

There is a video of Lindy explaining the entire draw process from start to finish and why they have everything the way they do.

Maybe you all should look it up, should be in the packet for last Novembers Rac meeting.

I heard the explanation in those meetings, and have heard their reasoning in the past as well. Doesn’t mean it can’t, and shouldn’t, be changed. There is no good reason why the tag #’s shouldn’t be published before the application deadline.

 

[JakeH]

I heard the explanation in those meetings, and have heard their reasoning in the past as well. Doesn’t mean it can’t, and shouldn’t, be changed. There is no good reason why the tag #’s shouldn’t be published before the application deadline.

Ohh, I definitely think it could and probably should be, but I bet most people don't have a clue what all goes into getting the draw done.

 

[deerkiller]

Ohh, I definitely think it could and probably should be, but I bet most people don't have a clue what all goes into getting the draw done.

I have a clue. They could do the draw the way it should be done, but they don’t.

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

I have a clue. They could do the draw the way it should be done, but they don’t.

Deerkiller what have you done to try to make changes the way you and or others see are more beneficial? Have you gone to RAC meets and made comments and voiced your concerns? Have you sent emails or made phone calls to the Director of Natural Resouces or any big game biologists?

Or do you just sit on your computer and complain on here thinking it will make changes happen?

Quit crying and DO SOMETHING THAT WILL ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO PROBLEMS YOU SEE. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS FELLAS. IF YOU WANT TO SEE SOME CHANGES GET YOUR VOICES HEARD NOT JUST POSTING ON A FORUM

 

[deerkiller]

Deerkiller what have you done to try to make changes the way you and or others see are more beneficial? Have you gone to RAC meets and made comments and voiced your concerns? Have you sent emails or made phone calls to the Director of Natural Resouces or any big game biologists?

Or do you just sit on your computer and complain on here thinking it will make changes happen?

Quit crying and DO SOMETHING THAT WILL ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO PROBLEMS YOU SEE. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS FELLAS. IF YOU WANT TO SEE SOME CHANGES GET YOUR VOICES HEARD NOT JUST POSTING ON A FORUM

I’ve sent piles and piles of Emails. Of course no reply. Ever. I’ve voiced my concerns to any DWR employee I get the chance to. I’ve been to RACs. They don’t listen to anyone unless you are wearing a $FW shirt.

 

[twopointdn]

I received my email as well. Though I was frustrated to see that zero tags were issued, I support the tag cuts because the unit we hunt needs the help. The oxymoron in the email and the rule that they state in the email is that they cannot exceed 15% for the dedicated hunter tag allocation per unit. In the unit I have been hunting the 2018 and 2019 dedicated hunters still in the program already exceed the 15% rule by 63 tags which calculates to over 18% of the tags going to dedicated hunters. This will make getting a tag next year difficult because the 2019 application year is a heavy applicant year and the number of dedicated hunters still in the program will nearly take the entire tag quote. After running the math on the three year program, the program will be more lopsided than it was before regarding yearly tag allocation. If tag quotes stay at the same level as this year for the next three years the quotas will be as follows; 2021-57 tags 2022-243 tags and in 2023 - 0 tags again similar to this year and the only cycle buster is to raise or lower the quotas. The simple fix is to allocate a “not to exceed” 5% tag allocation per year for the dedicated hunter program. After three year the program would be functioning at the 15% allocation and tag would be available every year with some consistent tag quotas. No more glitches or need to send out apology emails. Even if they set tag quotas before the application deadline I would like to see the above idea put in place. As many have stated above it would be nice to know tag quotas before the draw closed. The few weeks difference in timing should be easy enough to work out. We general get tag result by credit card hits or email way before print draw results state that they are available so there is time to work with to fix this. Just some of my thoughts. With the frustrations of the situation this year, all is not lost, there is a lot of opportunity out there to hunt somewhere/something this fall. I will figure out a leftover tag or OTC tag for some hunt this year and make the best of it. I will hope for better luck next year with my general deer draws in Utah. I generally don’t post on forums but this one caught my eye and I figured I would give it some time and opinion. Happy Father’s Day to all that get to enjoy the outdoors, hunting, and fishing with your kids. Have fun.

 

[Bocephus]

Get rid of the program.....problem solved

 

[Muleman1]

Get rid of the program.....problem solved

Nah don’t do that a lot of people do a lot of good things for the wildlife/outdoors from the service hours

 

[HUNTINFORLIFE]

Its all about doing a little homework. Its very simple to just pick up the phone and call the biologist for the unit your putting in for. Usually they will have an estimate on what tags they are going to send to the RAC meetings. Even the big game coordinator for the state answered my emails and calls before the application deadline. I'm just as busy as the next guy but it really doesn't take that much time to do a little research and make a couple phone calls.

 

[CFMuley]

Those of you who didn't draw the Oquirrh-Stansbury DH tag, the DWR just did you a favor. I've had that tag for the past three years and I can say with 100% certainty that unit sucks pretty bad. I saw far more hunters than I did deer. I wouldn't take that tag again for free.

I hope there’s a bunch of guys thinking that way so I can draw it next year!

 

[elkhunterUT]

Its all about doing a little homework. Its very simple to just pick up the phone and call the biologist for the unit your putting in for. Usually they will have an estimate on what tags they are going to send to the RAC meetings. Even the big game coordinator for the state answered my emails and calls before the application deadline. I'm just as busy as the next guy but it really doesn't take that much time to do a little research and make a couple phone calls.

I have done the same, including this last year on the elk tag I wanted to draw, but it is also very simple for the DWR to adjust the schedule a bit to publish tag #'s before an application period deadline. We live in an age of big data and computers, so there are no limitations or technical barriers to doing this. No excuses to make the process efficient and reliable for all parties involved.

 

[deerkiller]

Those of you who didn't draw the Oquirrh-Stansbury DH tag, the DWR just did you a favor. I've had that tag for the past three years and I can say with 100% certainty that unit sucks pretty bad. I saw far more hunters than I did deer. I wouldn't take that tag again for free.

Must not have looked very hard...

 

[deadibob]

It's not about the $10, it is about the DWR screwing it up. Even here in Utah you can get screwed for less than $10 if you try hard enough.

 

[deerkiller]

It's not about the $10, it is about the DWR screwing it up. Even here in Utah you can get screwed for less than $10 if you try hard enough.

No I’m pretty sure the minimum is $10 these days. Used to be $5 until a few years ago, then they started charging $10 for the apps at the expo. $10 seems to be the minimum to get screwed all around in Utah

 

[BIGJOHNT]

It’s funny how often they the DNR must follow our threads on MM. I have been contacted more then once because of a post on here. You guys called them out on this issue. They knew they had to comment on their screw up.

 

[deerkiller]

It’s funny how often they the DNR must follow our threads on MM. I have been contacted more then once because of a post on here. You guys called them out on this issue. They knew they had to comment on their screw up.

They watch this social media stuff like a hawk.

ive been contacted as well over several social media posts... the topics of discussion were of a different nature though, I’m sure Haha

 

[all4freedom]

Which tags are they selling for animals that don’t exist? ?

Dinosaurs? I didn’t get that reply either. Maybe Mossback sold him a hint for a T-Rex. Lol

 

[all4freedom]

Dinosaurs? I didn’t get that reply either. Maybe Mossback sold him a hint for a T-Rex. Lol

Its all about doing a little homework. Its very simple to just pick up the phone and call the biologist for the unit your putting in for. Usually they will have an estimate on what tags they are going to send to the RAC meetings. Even the big game coordinator for the state answered my emails and calls before the application deadline. I'm just as busy as the next guy but it really doesn't take that much time to do a little research and make a couple phone calls.

Research? Like applying for a hunt offered on the website and in the published big game proclamation? Would it be equally as hard for the DWR to publish numbers prior to the application period ending? Say you buy season tickets to your favorite sports team but they know they aren’t going to to have any seats available.... would you want them to make it right or would you say “screw it, it was my responsibility to call the owner to make sure tickets were available.”

 

[all4freedom]

Deerkiller what have you done to try to make changes the way you and or others see are more beneficial? Have you gone to RAC meets and made comments and voiced your concerns? Have you sent emails or made phone calls to the Director of Natural Resouces or any big game biologists?

Or do you just sit on your computer and complain on here thinking it will make changes happen?

Quit crying and DO SOMETHING THAT WILL ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO PROBLEMS YOU SEE. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS FELLAS. IF YOU WANT TO SEE SOME CHANGES GET YOUR VOICES HEARD NOT JUST POSTING ON A FORUM

I go to almost all the RAC meetings. I voice my concerns politely and intelligently. You’ll know me because I write my concerns down and don’t sound like some of the rambling idiots. I get the obligatory “thank you and we’ll definitely look into it,” response. I think the next step is lawyers who aren’t hunters and possibly speaking with Governors and Congressmen. My next suggestion will be if tags are cut they need to start with the expos and landowner’s. Auction tags are available to the public but the average tax payer isn’t in the same tax bracket as the the guy who can afford an auction tag. If the DWR can’t intelligently post hunt tag number/allocations prior to the application period ending then possibly an outside source is required. It is very frustrating in this day and age that we can’t get it right. I’m all for tag reductions in most units but as long as our application period is and as long as they hold our “deposit” you can’t tell me the tag allocation numbers can’t be published.

 

[BillyBoB]

So how many of you guys that are advocating for the tags to be listed before you put in even know that they addressed this issues at the November Rac meetings and made a presentation as to why it is the way it is?

There is a video of Lindy explaining the entire draw process from start to finish and why they have everything the way they do.

Maybe you all should look it up, should be in the packet for last Novembers Rac meeting.

Jake, I was one who brought this issue up in the northern RAC. Lindy told me that they are working quickly to begin *E-tagging* to help expedite the process which would allow them the opportunity to hold off the draw until after the recommended tags have been published.
However, I believe they are 1-2 years away from completing this.

 

[hossblur]

First, sounds like dudes went all or nothing, DH or bust.

Second, we went into last winter with dudes SCREAMING from the roof tops that there are no deer, the DWR counts suck, we need 3rd party counts, tag cuts, unit shut downs, etc, etc, etc.

Now, and I’m betting it’s some of the same dudes, are screaming that counts weren’t done, and completed by March.

March. The DEADLIEST month for deer, and dudes are squealing about counts.

The same dudes will be squealing at any attempt by Utah to move draw dates back into late spring.

I can hear it now, “how am I supposed to plan vacation time, scout, hire guides, etc, when I don’t draw until end of June?”

Oh ya, and “big data” costs BIG MONEY.

I know for a FACT some of the guys squealing now also love the “it’s all about the money” lines.

Chit happens.

You apply at your own risk.

It’s summer. If your area burns are you owed a full refund and points? If you get corona?

Have a few back ups

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

Hoss you are correct. Now people will complain about SFW because they donate money to the DNR

If you people are that blind you need to realize chit COSTS MONEY! The DNR is a BUSINESS THAT NEEDS TO MAKE MONEY TO SPEND MONEY.

Just because you didn't draw a tag because the quota was met before your name was drawn isn't the DNR's fault. Quit itching and get on with your dang lives. Hell try something new hunt a different state, take up waterfowl hunting, you can even get out into the mountain WITHOUT a tag yes it isn't as fun but it still beats work for some people.

 

[JakeH]

First, sounds like dudes went all or nothing, DH or bust.

Second, we went into last winter with dudes SCREAMING from the roof tops that there are no deer, the DWR counts suck, we need 3rd party counts, tag cuts, unit shut downs, etc, etc, etc.

Now, and I’m betting it’s some of the same dudes, are screaming that counts weren’t done, and completed by March.

March. The DEADLIEST month for deer, and dudes are squealing about counts.

The same dudes will be squealing at any attempt by Utah to move draw dates back into late spring.

I can hear it now, “how am I supposed to plan vacation time, scout, hire guides, etc, when I don’t draw until end of June?”

Oh ya, and “big data” costs BIG MONEY.

I know for a FACT some of the guys squealing now also love the “it’s all about the money” lines.

Chit happens.

You apply at your own risk.

It’s summer. If your area burns are you owed a full refund and points? If you get corona?

Have a few back ups

watch once they do move the deadline back its going to now interfere with some of the other states deadlines, so then they will be bitching that they don't know if they should put in for the other state because they don't have the results back from Utah.

You see this every year with Colorado and Wyoming.

Always something to b!tch about, if there isn't you ain't trying hard enough. LOL

 

[all4freedom]

watch once they do move the deadline back its going to now interfere with some of the other states deadlines, so then they will be bitching that they don't know if they should put in for the other state because they don't have the results back from Utah.

You see this every year with Colorado and Wyoming.

Always something to b!tch about, if there isn't you ain't trying hard enough. LOL

If they don’t hold onto our money for months only to be told there were never tags available for that hunt then I’m fine with that.

 

[rmanwill]

If they don’t hold onto our money for months only to be told there were never tags available for that hunt then I’m fine with that.

They do not hold on to our money. They only charge the application fee. Nothing returned if you are unsuccessful..

 

[deadibob]

No I’m pretty sure the minimum is $10 these days. Used to be $5 until a few years ago, then they started charging $10 for the apps at the expo. $10 seems to be the minimum to get screwed all around in Utah

Then we must know different women