E-plus FYI

[TRC]

FYI on the 40% elk tags not in the draw every year.

Attention New Mexico Hunters: Speak Up Now to Demand Reform of EPLUS! - New Mexico Wildlife Federation - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish just announced the draw results for the 2022-23 elk season. As usual, far too many resident hunters got the bad news that they didn’t draw. There’s always been high demand for elk tags, but that doesn’t fully explain the disappointment that too many...

nmwildlife.org

 

[BigChiefJ]

Would those tags go into the public draw if unit wide landowner tags were eliminated?

 

[Muleman]

They could but doesn’t mean they would, they would most likely just be ranch only. It’s in statue that the game and fish has to give out LO tags. How it’s done is up to the game and fish. LO tags aren’t going away unless the law gets changed. These jokers blow a bunch of smoke but don’t realize the ramifications of what they ask for actually happened. Where you gonna put 14,000 more elk hunters on public land. Private land not gonna let you hunt without paying. That would destroy most of the good elk hunting on public.

 

[OCHO]

They could but doesn’t mean they would, they would most likely just be ranch only. It’s in statue that the game and fish has to give out LO tags. How it’s done is up to the game and fish. LO tags aren’t going away unless the law gets changed. These jokers blow a bunch of smoke but don’t realize the ramifications of what they ask for actually happened. Where you gonna put 14,000 more elk hunters on public land. Private land not gonna let you hunt without paying. That would destroy most of the good elk hunting on public.

Maybe so but some of it’s about the principal of just giving LO tags to LO on silver platter. I mean we are already opportunity hunting the piss out of deer and killing the piss out of barns in BHS areas just because BHS did if you look at them wrong. What the hells the difference anymore. The G&F does the most for the one animal 99% of us will never hunt. That alone is just as frustrating.

At this point I hardly draw anything anyway just like a lot of people in the state. I’d like to see more accountability to some degree 100%. In addition I think we need to adjust the exotic percentages to match the native species.


We need to do away with the resident guided BS and for that matter we need to do away with the 2 day guided hunt deal as well imo.

 

[Booner]

The NMWF and NM BHA love to stoke hatred with numbers that push their narrative. How many tags in 46, 54, 55….are in that number. A pile. If you break it down by unit and look at the numbers more closely you would see that the 5 EPLUS tags in a unit like 16B/22 are commensurate with the amount of private land in that unit. The tags are proportionate to the breakdown of private and public acres in a given unit. It’s a great system that some smart folks put some thought into. They don’t paint the full picture because the truth doesn’t fit their agenda.

 

[OCHO]

The NMWF and NM BHA loves to stoke hatred with numbers that push their narrative. How many tags in 46, 54, 55….are in that number. A pile. If you break it down by unit and look at the numbers more closely you would see that the 5 EPLUS tags in a unit like 16B/22 are commensurate with the amount of private land in that unit. The tags are proportionate to the breakdown of private and public acres in a given unit. It’s a great system that some smart folks put some thought into. They don’t paint the full picture because the truth doesn’t fit their agenda.

I can see that for sure. You definitely have to take all things posted with a grain of salt. But factoring in most if not all of the western states not utilizing this method even if it’s 50% of the 14k it’s still a lot of tags. Especially when a lot of private land tags are used to hunt on public via unit wide.

 

[Booner]

I can see that for sure. You definitely have to take all things posted with a grain of salt. But factoring in most if not all of the western states not utilizing this method even if it’s 50% of the 14k it’s still a lot of tags. Especially when a lot of private land tags are used to hunt on public via unit wide.

I guess the trade off is the 600k acres of private land that the program opens up to the public hunter.

 

[Booner]

Would those tags go into the public draw if unit wide landowner tags were eliminated?

No.

 

[roadrunner]

I've taken out youth hunters on BLM land that would hardly be accessible if it wasn't for a UW E Plus designation of surrounding private. Without that access ability, those hunts would be limited on where you could go...

 

[SLM]

E-Plus is a good thing in theory IMO, but needs an overhaul. No one should be getting authorizations for 3/20/50 acres.

 

[OCHO]

Serious question is there an exact explanation on why LO get LO tag? Not an opinion… what’s the definition and also why are some RO and some UW.

 

[AAA173]

I've taken out youth hunters on BLM land that would hardly be accessible if it wasn't for a UW E Plus designation of surrounding private. Without that access ability, those hunts would be limited on where you could go...

 

[roadrunner]

Serious question is there an exact explanation on why LO get LO tag? Not an opinion… what’s the definition and also why are some RO and some UW.

I'm just a tenant farmer, so I can't comment with any substance.

 

[RoughCountry]

Serious question is there an exact explanation on why LO get LO tag? Not an opinion… what’s the definition and also why are some RO and some UW.

A land owner gets a tag after applying with the NMG&F. The land has to benefit elk…..meaningful benefit…water, food, cover, habitat. A landowner can specify ranch only or unit wide. Ranch only you can only hunt the ranch, unit wide you can hunt the whole unit but anyone with a legal tag can hunt the land owners property without asking and without written permission. Great program IMO, opens up a ton of land and lets you buy a tag if you don’t draw one.

 

[BrianID]

I will say the positive parts of E plus is that it opens private land up to hunters and rewards landowners for helping elk. I don't like the idea of so many tags being taken out of the public draw and anytime $$ gets involved, some people find a way to take advantage of what would otherwise be a good system.

I've really considered buying tags or some property to take advantage of the E plus myself. I just don't get too excited about using $$ to get a significant advantage over other hunters. Takes some of the personal satisfaction out of the hunt for me. The time and sweat I put into my hunt provides me more satisfaction that big antlers ever would.

Personally I like the way AZ distributes tags compared to NM (no outfitter welfare and not 40% of the tags going to landowners). The big difference between the states is that many of the AZ elk are on public lands and there are very many elk in NM that utilizes private land. So I can see why NM has E plus and understand the positive aspects behind it.

 

[OCHO]

I will say the positive parts of E plus is that it opens private land up to hunters and rewards landowners for helping elk. I don't like the idea of so many tags being taken out of the public draw and anytime $$ gets involved, some people find a way to take advantage of what would otherwise be a good system.

I've really considered buying tags or some property to take advantage of the E plus myself. I just don't get too excited about using $$ to get a significant advantage over other hunters. Takes some of the personal satisfaction out of the hunt for me. The time and sweat I put into my hunt provides me more satisfaction that big antlers ever would.

Personally I like the way AZ distributes tags compared to NM (no outfitter welfare and not 40% of the tags going to landowners). The big difference between the states is that many of the AZ elk are on public lands and there are very many elk in NM that utilizes private land. So I can see why NM has E plus and understand the positive aspects behind it.

Several states with relative amounts of private not doing the same that I am aware. Some interesting numbers!

Public and Private Land Percentages by US States : Facts & Information : SummitPost

Public and Private Land Percentages by US States : SummitPost.org : Climbing, hiking, mountaineering

www.summitpost.org

 

[NMBOWHNTR27]

FYI on the 40% elk tags not in the draw every year.

Attention New Mexico Hunters: Speak Up Now to Demand Reform of EPLUS! - New Mexico Wildlife Federation - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish just announced the draw results for the 2022-23 elk season. As usual, far too many resident hunters got the bad news that they didn’t draw. There’s always been high demand for elk tags, but that doesn’t fully explain the disappointment that too many...

nmwildlife.org

NMWF is nothing but a left wing agenda crap! Spewing misinformation! Half of NM is private. What, Do you think everyone wants your 40% of tags to all go into the public draw? So it can ruin the quality of the experience of the hunt w/ 2 or 3X the amount of people in the woods.
I don’t!!!!! Do you think LO are going to say hey come hunt my land…..probably if you pay then for access and will probably charge you what the license cost would’ve been. I’m so tired of the BHA and NMWF posts around this time of the draw results so they can play on the emotions of hunters that were unfortunate were unsuccessful. All they do is create divisiveness amongst hunters!

 

[BUGLEnmIN]

Maybe so but some of it’s about the principal of just giving LO tags to LO on silver platter. I mean we are already opportunity hunting the piss out of deer and killing the piss out of barns in BHS areas just because BHS did if you look at them wrong. What the hells the difference anymore. The G&F does the most for the one animal 99% of us will never hunt. That alone is just as frustrating.

At this point I hardly draw anything anyway just like a lot of people in the state. I’d like to see more accountability to some degree 100%. In addition I think we need to adjust the exotic percentages to match the native species.


We need to do away with the resident guided BS and for that matter we need to do away with the 2 day guided hunt deal as well imo.

It’s an argument for the ages bro! 90/10 split and call it good yeah? No landowner welfare

 

[roadrunner]

NMWF is nothing but a left wing agenda crap! Spewing misinformation! Half of NM is private.

And what is the bet that half that private in NM is someone's 1/2 or 1 acre piece they live on? Hanoi Jane's boy toy owns 500,000, but that's a far cry away from the total they report that the tags are going to...

 

[ElkHunterNM]

Just imagine if all landowners said to the state, get all of you animals off my property.

 

[SLM]

Not a fan of either group, but 1000’s of those authorizations are already competing on public ground. Not for an elimination of E-Plus, but it needs a major overhaul IMO.

NMWF is nothing but a left wing agenda crap! Spewing misinformation! Half of NM is private. What, Do you think everyone wants your 40% of tags to all go into the public draw? So it can ruin the quality of the experience of the hunt w/ 2 or 3X the amount of people in the woods.
I don’t!!!!! Do you think LO are going to say hey come hunt my land…..probably if you pay then for access and will probably charge you what the license cost would’ve been. I’m so tired of the BHA and NMWF posts around this time of the draw results so they can play on the emotions of hunters that were unfortunate were unsuccessful. All they do is create divisiveness amongst hunters!

 

[roadrunner]

Just imagine if all landowners said to the state, get all of you animals off my property.

What would happen if the state replied with fine, will just appropriate through eminent domain to protect a public resource?

 

[SLM]

The simple response would be, fence them out like everyone has to cattle. Yes, easier said than done, but that is the law.

Just imagine if all landowners said to the state, get all of you animals off my property.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

What would happen if the state replied with fine, will just appropriate through eminent domain to protect a public resource?

? they would have to pay just compensation. That would probably entail doubling the tax on marijuana and legalizing and taxing cocaine and prostitution in this poor democrat controlled State.

 

[Booner]

What would happen if the state replied with fine, will just appropriate through eminent domain to protect a public resource?

Years ago “the state”, aka legislature, did just the opposite with Jennings Law. Bipartisan legislation which can’t be “used” if the landowner is in EPLUS.

 

[roadrunner]

Years ago “the state”, aka legislature, did just the opposite with Jennings Law. Bipartisan legislation which can’t be “used” if the landowner is in EPLUS.

Wasn't the point, but okay anyway.

 

[NMBOWHNTR27]

Not a fan of either group, but 1000’s of those authorizations are already competing on public ground. Not for an elimination of E-Plus, but it needs a major overhaul IMO.

1000’s is little much. The unit wide permits I get and maybe do without those and I’m sure that “ranches” that are <100 acres probably shouldn’t get tags unless they have like the only water source for miles then I understand that. I’m not saying eplus needs a little work because maybe it does. Also if u take away unit wide then you take away public access to all unit wide ranches which could suck. Is what I’m saying is putting the 40% or what ever the % is and putting that number back in the draw is a horrible idea.
I think there needs to be better enforcement for rules of e-plus.

-ruins quality of experience of the hunt, nobody likes seeing other hunters.

- animals will simply move onto private in which LO owners will sell access for $1000’s instead of tags.

- lose access for unit wide places. Result could be losing access to land locked Blm etc.

- ruins age class

I wouldn’t wanna support the same groups that laid in bed with orgs. Such as Seirra club and other anti hunting groups.
Don’t forget these are the people that wanted to pass SB-312.

The only thing I agree on with them is public land issues.

 

[Reuben_Soady]

Small contributing ranches (SCRs) have to draw tags in a separate lottery. There are limited # of tags in that lottery, and the chances of drawing are proportional to the number of acres and habitat quality. So a 100-acre ranch has 10x better chance of getting tags than a 10-acre homestead. If that 100 acres was crappy dry desert and the 10 was the only pond for miles then things even out a bit. Ten years ago it took about 80 acres to guarantee one tag per year in GMU52.

If a 10 acre homestead gets a tag every year, then the neighbors haven't entered the SCR lottery, and that's their loss.

I'm not a user of the benefits either way, but ...
I think E-Plus is doing just fine.

 

[eshunt]

I'm not super familiar with the Eplus program. I have only been in the NM game for the last 6-8 years and finally drew my first tag. I was reading about this program and thought it was strange that some of the properties were so small that were getting tags through the system.

So, I went online and looked at the map of the Eplus UW properties. I was mostly curious as to where the properties are located so I know where I may have access. All of the smaller properties I could find on the map are located adjacent to, or surrounded by larger properties that also have tags. I did not find any of the tiny <10 acre properties out all by themselves.

So, my question is, if the larger properties around them are getting tags and presumably have a large enough population of animals, why can't the little guy have a chance to get a tag if his property is also used by the animals? If the 25 acre ranch is surrounded on three sides by a 1200 acre ranch that has tags, isn't it possible that the elk spend time on the smaller property too? Using the resources on both properties?

I'm not advocating for anything here. Just asking questions that I don't know the answer to.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

I'm not super familiar with the Eplus program. I have only been in the NM game for the last 6-8 years and finally drew my first tag. I was reading about this program and thought it was strange that some of the properties were so small that were getting tags through the system.

So, I went online and looked at the map of the Eplus UW properties. I was mostly curious as to where the properties are located so I know where I may have access. All of the smaller properties I could find on the map are located adjacent to, or surrounded by larger properties that also have tags. I did not find any of the tiny <10 acre properties out all by themselves.

So, my question is, if the larger properties around them are getting tags and presumably have a large enough population of animals, why can't the little guy have a chance to get a tag if his property is also used by the animals? If the 25 acre ranch is surrounded on three sides by a 1200 acre ranch that has tags, isn't it possible that the elk spend time on the smaller property too? Using the resources on both properties?

I'm not advocating for anything here. Just asking questions that I don't know the answer to.

You are absolutely correct. You shouldn’t have to be John Chisum to get a tag or two. I’ve seen elk step into stock tanks and break the float off and create one heck of a flooding mess for the rancher, big and small rancher. Elk can reek havoc on any place if they go unchecked. Why shouldn’t the little guy living the American dream receive a tag or two? Seems like we rail on the rich all the time for them not paying/doing their fair share. Well here’s an opportunity for the little guy to make a buck or two, provide a much wanted service and ink out a small living for himself in the process.

 

[SLM]

It averages between 2500 to 3000 UW authorizations yearly. My point is, you are already competing against those hunters on public ground, so to me, the over crowding is a mute point when talking UW authorizations. Throw all the RO in the mix like some groups want, and yes, crowding would definitely by a problem. Like I stated in another post, the access issue to me is overplayed IMO, we don’t have that access for any other species. Just about every UW property I know does not allow road/vehicle access that opens up public. Some do make access easier, and I wish a few of them would go RO. Agreed on the 2 groups and it’s interesting to hear the different takes on E-Plus. Like I’ve said before, I’m definitely not in favor of eliminating E-Plus, but it needs a major overhaul IMO.

1000’s is little much. The unit wide permits I get and maybe do without those and I’m sure that “ranches” that are <100 acres probably shouldn’t get tags unless they have like the only water source for miles then I understand that. I’m not saying eplus needs a little work because maybe it does. Also if u take away unit wide then you take away public access to all unit wide ranches which could suck. Is what I’m saying is putting the 40% or what ever the % is and putting that number back in the draw is a horrible idea.
I think there needs to be better enforcement for rules of e-plus.

-ruins quality of experience of the hunt, nobody likes seeing other hunters.

- animals will simply move onto private in which LO owners will sell access for $1000’s instead of tags.

- lose access for unit wide places. Result could be losing access to land locked Blm etc.

- ruins age class

I wouldn’t wanna support the same groups that laid in bed with orgs. Such as Seirra club and other anti hunting groups.
Don’t forget these are the people that wanted to pass SB-312.

The only thing I agree on with them is public land issues.

 

[NMBOWHNTR27]

2500-3000 UW???? I don’t think so…

 

[WapitiBob]

this is what they show for 2021

base data

 

[SLM]

Count them!!!

2500-3000 UW???? I don’t think so…

 

[Booner]

this is what they show for 2021

View attachment 75183

base data

View attachment 75185

I’m impressed you converted that from PDF to Excel.

 

[WapitiBob]

easy peasy
Create an account and you have a host of online conversions available. Awful nice for converting draw odds reports.

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