Eastman's in 102

nontypical

Long Time Member
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Last week's episode of Eastman's on TV included a hunt in unit 102 for mulies.The hunter ends up killing a big 3x3 frame buck with a cheater.Guy claims the buck is 8-9 years of age,and I don't doubt him.This is very typical of the unit.People don't want to kill these type of bucks because they want a 4x4.They would rather kill a 22" 2 yr old 4x4 than one of these older class bucks.Each to his own.A hunter should be able to kill what they want.To me,though,the trophy is in the age of the animal more than rack configuration.Also,this leaves the breeding to be done by these inferior genetic bucks,resulting in the inferior genes being passed onto future generations.Everyone thinks 102 is supposed to be the Wyoming version of the Henries or the Strip.Now you can see for yourself what 102 has to offer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-11 AT 11:33AM (MST)[p]I don't get to mulie hunt much, but took a 173" 4x4 last time in a good unit in Colorado. I for one would take a 3x3 or 3x4 if it was a giant. They dominated the buck population in my Gunnison unit. Plenty to pick from.
 
I've never heard anyone say 102 is a Henries equivilent, but I'd take the tag none the less. My buddy helped a guy get a 200 gross deer down there last season.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-11 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]I would love to see that episode. Is there anywhere I can view it online?
 
When ya gonna post some of your 'I guide for an Outfitter ' in 102 photo's "nontypical"?

How about some of your 'guide' photo's of elk in 30/31/32??

Ya got any Antleope 'guide' photo's from 58/59/112?

Good for his----I guide for an Outfitter---bsn's to see some harvest photo's.

Maybe just the 'Outfitter' website would be great for many of us with Max points going into 2012.....on those 3 species.

Thanks for your time, photo's and effort,

Robb
 
I'm a computer illiterate.I don't know how to post pics and don't really care.I also am not much for showing off.I'll leave the showing off to the showoffs.Never guided anyone for elk or antelope.Showed some friends where to hunt one season and they both killed 82" goats.I know 102 better than most people,and I know what I see.If you need to see pics,go to reddesertoutfitters.com.You seem to have an axe to grind with me,Robb.I don't really give a rat's a$$ what you think of me,either.I don't need to explain anything to you or anyone else.Very few Wyoming guys show off on here,ever notice that?There's a reason for that.BB,I never said there weren't 200" bucks in 102.The Eastman's episode is very indicative of quality in 102.There are lots of that type of deer there.I would take a 102 tag every year if I could.Never said I wouldn't.Not ever.Don't read more into my post than what was said.
 
Wybighorn-Sorry I didn't respond to you.Go to Eastmans.com(I think).They might have it on there or be able to let you know when it re-runs.Pretty cool episode.They also hunt mulies in another state as well on the same episode.
 
Just couldn't hold myself back from wading into this challenging conversation that my buddy 'nontypical' tried to win alone. My friend NT is everything anyone on this forum can ever want about advice about big 'ol muleys.

I have just three opinions about unit 102:

1) It's overrated
2) It's overrated
and
3) It's loooooongggggg shot out

That clear enough for ya?? Why do you continue to hype it like it is the Henry's or the Strip? There are quite a number of units around the west that are better trophy hunts than 102 but not quite the best in the west. Some are:

1) Colorado unit 21
2) Colorado unit 10
3) Colorado unit 30
4) NV unit 6
5) NV unit 231
6) NV area 22 late
7) NV area 13 late
8) NV area 24 late
9) CO unit 61 late
10) CO unit 2 late

Try these after this advise and then come on here and talk with experience.
 
Rob, I'm not sure why you seem to be upset with Nontyp? He's a good guy. He does fart a lot though... :)

I will say if you're looking to draw 102 anytime soon and have max points I would personally tell you to look into other options. Yes I put in for 102 and drew the tag. Hunted hard including 5 scouting trips pre-season. Best buck I saw the entire time was a buck while scouting that might have went 180. Shot the best buck I found during the hunt. He scored 172 and was aged by the G&F at 6 1/2 years old. I actually passed on the same buck a couple of days earlier and then later went back to find him as my hunt was coming to an end. All that being said, I drew before they went to bonus points and absolutely would NOT burn max points on this unit. Not right now and most likely not for a looong time. Maybe some day it will be worth a few points but I personally think there are way too many tags being given and the winters have not cooperated lately either. Too many predators, previous years of extended drought and who knows what all else have added up to pretty poor hunting there. Just too many things hammering the deer to make it worth burning up max points, that's for sure! If you really want to hunt the 102 area my advice would be to hold tight and wait to see what the next few years might bring. Personally I don't think it will be any better anytime soon and would say your best bet would be to look into other options. As was stated in the previous post, 102 is WAY overrated.

Good luck,

NvrEnuf
 
That particular sentence was for TripleBB,Robb.("Don't read more into my post").Most of those mulie pics on Vic's website are from '06 on.A couple slammers,but most are fairly average deer.Found by guys who know the unit and how to hunt it.With good glass.The guy who draws 102 without any knowledge of the unit is going to have a tough time finding a 170+ buck.RDO doesn't kill that type of buck every year,and there's only a couple other guys I know that know that country better than Vic.And one of them guides for him.This post was(is) intended to show those that drew a 102 tag what they can reasonably expect to kill there.102 is a cool unit to hunt.There's lots of deer there.You'll see plenty of 20"-24" bucks from the truck window,and a ton of 3x4,2x4,3x3 mature bucks that need to be taken from the herd. Like WM said,the unit is overrated big time,IMO.Big deer are there;they get killed every year;some by pure luck,others by good hunters who do their scouting and work hard.IMO,there are units in Wy right now that have a higher percentage of 170+ type bucks than 102 does(if you care about score).The difference is the guys that hunt those other units know how to keep their mouths shut.Also,Huntin'Fool mag doesn't rate them high.Garth refers hunters to Vic for a kickback.Makes sense he would rank 102 #1 in Wy.Garth will also tell you straight up that Wyoming mule deer management is lacking,and to hold onto your points until it gets better.Take this post for what it's worth;agree or disagree.102 is still a great hunt compared to most general hunts in the state,just don't get your expectations too awfully high.102 is the Wyoming version of the Book Cliffs(the Books has more deer).That's a very close comparison,IMO.And yes,I have hunted the Books.
 
Well stated, Cliff. I agree that 102 is over rated and I would not consider even applying there. I live right here in good old Wyoming and have a couple of places I hunt, but as stated, they are not public knowledge.

And I agree that Colorado has better bucks and better management. Nevada as well. And I hunt Colorado every year and Nevada when I can draw.

Good luck to all. Hope everybody gets a big one this fall.
 
Where did this upset with nontypical come from??

WTF??

I asked for a few photo's of his 'I guide for an Outfitter'---

What is wrong with that?

He stated he is a guide for an Outfitter in 102 deer....elk 30/31/32...antelope 59/58/112....

What the heck is wrong for asking for some photo's of him and his client's harvests????

Is it to early to start planning for the 2012 Draws???

I didn't make the guide statement----always--- all the knowledge type deal...

That website--reddes....-----shows nothing for any future clients...period....nor any reference to nontypical being the guide....kinda simple right there----let's see 'em is all I asked....

Robb
 
It appears that some took your post to be calling him out and not believing him and his skills when you asked for those various pictures! Knowing you like I think I already do, I did not get that from your post at all. I'd also like to work as far ahead on a planned hunt as I can to get all the Ts crossed and the Is dotted like it appears you are doing!
 
>BB,I never said there
>weren't 200" bucks in 102.

Before I apply in 102 again, I'll make sure and watch Eastman's. Thanks for the tip...
 
You know exactly what I meant,Robb.You're being a weiner now because I pissed you off before on another thread.Like I said before,I don't need to prove anything to you.Not one damn thing.People who know me are the ones I care about.I don't need to prove anything to them,either.You can insinuate that I'm a liar(or wherever it is you're going with this)all you want.Don't care.I have my opinions about you as well.You did bring up a good point,though.Notice the lack of mulie pics from 2009 and 2010?RDO guides in 102 almost excusively.That tell you anything?Of course,I know your answer will be because RDO doesn't have good guides.Couldn't be an indication of anything else.
 
+1 for nontypical. I agree completely with you. 102 is not the unit it was. There is always going to be someone jump in and say they helped a buddy find a 200" buck and they probably did. That means its a great unit, right? Wrong. The Wasatch Front in Utah also produces some 200 inch bucks and that is a general season unit. While there are always going to be a few monsters killed in 102, its probably not any more than some of the general units. The average buck is probably larger. nontypical obviously knows his stuff, and his notes line up perfectly with mine.

The Book Cliffs and 102 both need management hunts. Its the only way I can see to provide opportunity while maintaining a trophy component. What used to make 102 good before is that many of the hunters hunted there because it was easy to get a buck and close to Rock Springs. They didn't care about trophy hunting so much. Now, almost every hunter is a trophy hunter. At the current permit level, there are too many trophy hunters for the available trophy bucks. Despite what nontypical and others have said many many many times in numerous previous threads, it still amazes me how many people still think 102 is the holy grail of mule deer hunting. I guess people have to learn for themselves.
 
Sorry for the delay response---I have been up in the Utah LE bow bull unit helping a fellow bowhunter (from Wyoming--honest) on his LE Bow Bull hunt in the Utah No. Cache.----man is he picky! ha

Anyways---here is the deal---I reach out to a neutral party to go thru this whole thread.

All I prefaced my read/request was--- if I jacked-up/challenge this 'nontypical' bigtime guide guy.....tell me so----

She started with my Post # 4......

Okay--I did come across with the repeated guide for an Outfitter as maybe challenging---but then again I took the time to list every species/unit that 'nt' guides with in and it prolly benefited the many M&M readers as an option to get ahold of RDO/Vic outfitters for maybe booking with--- in the future...

So I am calling that a 'Push'....

Then she went on to say that what kind of guide would not grasp at the photo request option to post multiple photo's of client/guide harvest photo's for benefit of future 'by name guide' client request?

Plus she added that many in my same point pool maybe ready to cash-in points for 2012 and your photo client/guide harvest photo's would be a trememdous help for getting a dandy buck/bull/A-buck in 2012...via RDO/Vic outfitter.

So I gotta say---I feel not guilty nor challenging....but like maybe I should get a pinch of commission $$ for free opportunity website advertising...ha

(Simply a heads-up here--she has been in feature articles in Eastman's and many succesfull photo shots in other mags's....but I do not recall if she has been in Huntin' Fool---- so she for sure knows a 'all blow' guide story vs real guide story truth...make sense?)

She did bring up a very valid neutral point of view-----You are saying that your Outfitter/Vic and Huntin' Fool/Garth are presenting some very invalid unit choices because of Kickback$ for #1 ratings??? Plus RDO/Vic/guides haven't put a decent big buck on the ground since 2006....is not really good for RDO/Vic...client pursuit----

Okay--she went ahead and read the whole freaking thread----

Thru your Post # 15..

She point blank asked me if you are BOD of SFW-Wyo or even a Banquet Chair----(it is no secret my anti-SFW) I tryed to be as honest as I could and stated that this is the very first thread that you and I have come across negative towards each other and that we may have had a different perspective on other threads but to the best of my knowledge you are not gifted ($$) to be BOD/Banquet Chairman and that you most prolly are a cheapie fee member/credit card spender at SFW-Wyo Banquets.....I do not know if that is current.

'He' sure has some issues with you and that BB guy.....

So after the wife de-brief---over this thread---

I want to make it perfectly clear that I want to 100% applogize to you for any challenge to you to post up some client/guide photo's.

I am truely sorry for any challenge to your guide/client harvest photo's.

Robb
 
NT I agree with you 100%, an old deer/elk etc is WAY more of a challenge then a young booner! I have taken some nice animals but I have freinds with some OLD animals, some are twice as old as my nice animals, talk about a smart animal to take.

I would take the young booner over the older nice animal though!

Taking an very old animal (deer over 6-7, elk over 9 etc) is one heck of a feat many will never accomplish - if I do once in my carrer I will be happy. Good point.
 
I will add I have not hunted 102 but when I burnt my max deer points in WY special draw I did a LOT of research and 102 did not even make my list to look into further.

I love eastmans and huntin fool, but you need to do your own research on top of it. Perfect example is WY deer, for the most part they both list different units so someone has to be off.

They are a great tool but you need to do your own homework. I have seen some reccomendations I disagree with - but that is inevitable.
 
LOL.Wives are never "neutral" parties.That's pretty funny,Robb.Not an SFW member(was once,but not now).Active MDF committee member.Your original post(#4)on this thread was an all-out challenge/attack on my credibilty.Why?If you've never had a previous issue with me,why now?Why on this thread?What's up with the personal attacks??This thread was about deer quality in 102,and you have turned it into your own personal attack on nontypical.Why?Obviously,I did cause you to get your panties in a wad at some previous point.Anyone reading this thread can see that it's YOU that has issues with ME.BTW,I haven't helped Vic since '06.He also sees quality slipping in 102.He's a personal friend of mine,and I HAVE HELPED him in the past when he had an excess amount of hunters booked.I don't recall ever posting a story on MM about any of my hunting accomplishments,or any I guided.You can take anything out of context to suit your own goals.Pretty apparent your goal is to discredit me any way you can.BTW,I asked my "neutral" party what she thought of this thread.She wants to kick your a$$ now.How's that for neutral?
 
From original post...
"To me,though,the trophy is in the age of the animal more than rack configuration.Also,this leaves the breeding to be done by these inferior genetic bucks,resulting in the inferior genes being passed onto future generations."

Regardless of the unit, can someone tell me how the genetics of a deer can change.

A deer has the same genetics the day it is born as it does the day it dies.

If a two point breeds a doe, the offspring could turn out to be a 200" monster if it is not shot when it is 2-4 years old.

Sure, if you see a 200" four point breeding a doe you know that the offspring is going to have great genetics. but what if that same 200" four point breeds a doe when he was just a 2 year old dink? the offspring is still going to have the same great genetics. He just needs age to show it. off.
 
Just because a 200 inch buck breeds a doe doesnt mean its off-spring will have 200 inch racks either...genetics are a 2-part equation.
 
exactly BuzzH. The doe has as much to do with the outcome as the buck. However, the genetics of either don't change as they age.
 
1 more time----



"I want to make it perfectly clear that I want to 100% applogize to you for any challenge to you to post up some client/guide photo's."



Do not know what else ya want----?

Robb
 
Sheeeeesh.

Does provide 50% or so of the genetic makeup of a fawn. No kidding.

Does also control which buck breeds her. Just like many of us people. They hold off the weaker ones til late into the night (or season). Except in the case of rape.

Does reserve their breeding rights to the buck with the biggest rack (that's why mother nature makes different sized racks!!).............or the buck that is the most aggressive.

Age has a VERY direct influence on aggressiveness......more often than not.

Rack size is not an indication of aggressiveness. Neither is body size.

Body language is communication to deer since they are not vocal animules.

A doe can see which buck has the bigger rack. A buck cannot. Therefore............the bucks key off of does (and lesser bucks) reactions to them to determine which has the bigger rack.

WM
 
elkantlers-That is exactly the point of this post.Even with the doe being 50% of the genetic makeup of her offspring,inferior genes from the buck will eventually have an overall effect on the herd.That seems to be the case in 102.I've been known to be wrong,but it sure seems like there are more bucks in the unit that never become 4x4 or better.Too bad there isn't some type of data that could be referred to,to find out.In Nevada,when you fill out your hunter survey card(which they require),one of the questions is how many points did your buck have on each antler.I wish Wyoming would do this.You are correct that age has nothing to do with genetics.To everyone else here-I apologize for this thread turning into the battle between PleaseDear and myself.Thanks for some good responses to my original post.
 
"To everyone else here-I apologize for this thread turning into the battle between PleaseDear and myself.Thanks for some good responses to my original post. "

My regret include 'nontypical'.

Sorry All---

Robb
 
I believe I had the pleasure to meet and play a little poker with nontypical last year at a banquet. Does that sound right to you nontypical? If so I can tell people you know how to kill big deer i seen the pictures! As far as 102 ive been on 2 different hunts on the unit and I would rather have a general season wy tag. Seen a few big bucks the 1st year the very next year we couldn't hardly find anything.
I've hunted the bookcliffs in ut and its not even comparable to that hunt imo! There will always be a few big deer on 102 but its not a trophy unit. The Eastmans claim public land diy but have hunted a huge private ranch in sw wy with guides in the back pocket several times! So believe what you want with that crew!
 
Guy's wife had the tag a few years ago on the tv show.
Guy and his brother and dad hunt the private ranches
They use all the TV $ and Eastman jourmal Mag. $$$ that alot of you read to buy hunts and hunt on private land. I don't see them hunting the publis lands like they did in the past.
They make tags harder to draw and are responsible for a lot of point creep, them and the Carters , huntin fool mag
 
Guy's wife had the tag a few years ago on the tv show.
Guy and his brother and dad hunt the private ranches
They use all the TV $ and Eastman jourmal Mag. $$$ that alot of you read to buy hunts and hunt on private land. I don't see them hunting the publis lands like they did in the past.
They make tags harder to draw and are responsible for a lot of point creep, them and the Carters , huntin fool mag
Capitalist pigs.
 
I believe I had the pleasure to meet and play a little poker with nontypical last year at a banquet. Does that sound right to you nontypical? If so I can tell people you know how to kill big deer i seen the pictures! As far as 102 ive been on 2 different hunts on the unit and I would rather have a general season wy tag. Seen a few big bucks the 1st year the very next year we couldn't hardly find anything.
I've hunted the bookcliffs in ut and its not even comparable to that hunt imo! There will always be a few big deer on 102 but its not a trophy unit. The Eastmans claim public land diy but have hunted a huge private ranch in sw wy with guides in the back pocket several times! So believe what you want with that crew!
Well, it wasn't me you played poker with, lol. I haven't been to a banquet for several years. I was heavily involved with various groups for many years, but I got a little sideways with the last group and decided to give it up. I kept up the hunter's ed classes but have recently given that up as well. But I didn't give up poker!! Lol. I play 2-3 nights a week online. Eastman's hunt on Fraughton's place( I'm sure you know that) for their old guys vs young guys episode. Funny stuff, Ernesto. thanks for dredging up this old thread. Makes me laugh. No hard feelings, Robb. I'm sure I could dredge up some of those old pics!
 

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