Elk bullet for my 300 WSM?

Messages
14
Hi,

Been spending the summer sorting out the 300 win...it’s good. 3 good shots (pulled the third shot-so all ok)

Sorted out the 30-06. (You can see the walk up to the center).

Now the 300 WSM...it shoots Nosler Match 168 grain bullets like this...(see 3rd pic-4 shots) however it’s not a fan of the Barnes 168’s. Thinking maybe Berger 168’s??

The 300 WSM is my goto gun so I’m flailing around a bit. (It shoots ONLY Federal factory ammo which is expensive and hard to get-a bit of a finicky princess)

Suggestions??

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pushin_30

Active Member
Messages
984
my 300 likes the 175 Berger’s vld hunting and nosler 180 partions
In my experience the Berger’s are most accurate when you can stretch them out .020 off the lands and in
 
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Messages
14
I’ll see what I can find for 175’s or the nosler 180’s. I’ll try anything to get this thing shooting.

The nosler match bullets were a extra’s laying around and thought they might be good for practice. Blew my mind that it likes them.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
Nosler 168 match burners are copper jacketed lead core bullets. As long as the hollow point isn’t closed they will work great on elk- just like the berger and Hornady hollow points. I’m assuming that’s what your shooting ? Partitions and accubond s are also great performers. The all copper Barnes or Hornady all copper bullets are the worst performers of anything on the hunts I’ve been on that require lead free.
If the 130 grain 270 or 140 grain 6.5 kill elk why won’t the 168 in .30 cal do it ?
If they are accurate and give you confidence I wouldn’t hesitate using them. Just make sure the hollow point tips aren’t closed. Too much hype has been put on premium bullets. Old Remington core-locks and before that military FMJ were filed flat on the tips and they killed everything back then. Take a good well placed shot and the elk won’t know the difference.
I personally prefer match hollow points that are opened up on the tips. They create huge wound channels - much larger than premium bullets that punch holes all the way through. If your shot isn’t perfect the large wound channel takes the animal down. Been hunting for over 40 years and seen almost everything and tried most. This will be a controversial subject and if premium 98% weight retention bullets make you feel better - use them. I’ll take a match burner, a berger or Hornady match hollow point over any premium bullet. The Remington core-lock is right there as well.
 

El Gringo

Active Member
Messages
709
Nosler 168 match burners are copper jacketed lead core bullets. As long as the hollow point isn’t closed they will work great on elk- just like the berger and Hornady hollow points. I’m assuming that’s what your shooting ? Partitions and accubond s are also great performers. The all copper Barnes or Hornady all copper bullets are the worst performers of anything on the hunts I’ve been on that require lead free.
If the 130 grain 270 or 140 grain 6.5 kill elk why won’t the 168 in .30 cal do it ?
If they are accurate and give you confidence I wouldn’t hesitate using them. Just make sure the hollow point tips aren’t closed. Too much hype has been put on premium bullets. Old Remington core-locks and before that military FMJ were filed flat on the tips and they killed everything back then. Take a good well placed shot and the elk won’t know the difference.
I personally prefer match hollow points that are opened up on the tips. They create huge wound channels - much larger than premium bullets that punch holes all the way through. If your shot isn’t perfect the large wound channel takes the animal down. Been hunting for over 40 years and seen almost everything and tried most. This will be a controversial subject and if premium 98% weight retention bullets make you feel better - use them. I’ll take a match burner, a berger or Hornady match hollow point over any premium bullet. The Remington core-lock is right there as well.
I couldn’t disagree more….. There you have it, both sides.
Here’s my case: You’re not always going to get a broadside shot, at a calm animal, at 552 yards, across a canyon. At that distance, those garbage, match bullets have slowed down enough not to grenade…. If you get a shot at 80, at a quartering, alert, Bull, you’ll wish for a bonded bullet to drive through to the vitals. Shoot him with a match bullet, and it MIGHT work… an Accubond, Trophy bonded, or Partition will almost certainly work. They’ll also work at the Calm bull at 552 across the canyon…
 

El Gringo

Active Member
Messages
709
For the record, I’ve shot at least 40 head of African game, plus, Elk, Muleys, pigs, Bear, Whitetail with the 300 WSM with bonded bullets that I recommend, so it’s not just a philosophical discussion.
 
Messages
14
Nosler 168 match burners are copper jacketed lead core bullets. As long as the hollow point isn’t closed they will work great on elk- just like the berger and Hornady hollow points. I’m assuming that’s what your shooting ? Partitions and accubond s are also great performers. The all copper Barnes or Hornady all copper bullets are the worst performers of anything on the hunts I’ve been on that require lead free.
If the 130 grain 270 or 140 grain 6.5 kill elk why won’t the 168 in .30 cal do it ?
If they are accurate and give you confidence I wouldn’t hesitate using them. Just make sure the hollow point tips aren’t closed. Too much hype has been put on premium bullets. Old Remington core-locks and before that military FMJ were filed flat on the tips and they killed everything back then. Take a good well placed shot and the elk won’t know the difference.
I personally prefer match hollow points that are opened up on the tips. They create huge wound channels - much larger than premium bullets that punch holes all the way through. If your shot isn’t perfect the large wound channel takes the animal down. Been hunting for over 40 years and seen almost everything and tried most. This will be a controversial subject and if premium 98% weight retention bullets make you feel better - use them. I’ll take a match burner, a berger or Hornady match hollow point over any premium bullet. The Remington core-lock is right there as well.
Thank you sir!!! One less problem to worry about!!!!
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
Once again
Too much hype on premium bullets. What are Berger hunting bullets that have killed countless big game animals. Could they actually be match hollow points that were later labeled as hunting rounds ?
Before that hunters were doing the same with sierra matchkings.
And what are Hornady match hollow points and match burners ? Are they of the same design? What does a hollow point round do ? Does expansion occur with a hollow point ?
If you were to compare expansion velocities of a premium bullet compared to a hollow point - you just might be surprised to see that the hollow point will expand at lower velocities - much lower than a premium bonded round.
For an African hunt the premiums have the edge. For the hunter that shoots from a tree stand it likely won’t matter. For the hunter that has the perfect broadside side up close it won’t really matter. But if that animal moves and you hit it outside of the vital area the bonded will wound - where the large wound channel of the hollow point gets the job done. Barnes 100% copper and Hornady 100% copper are the worst bullet that I have witnessed hunters use on animals. They hardly expand zipping holes like a drill bit through animals. Nosler partitions are also great bullets. I’m not knocking all of the premium bullets - I just don’t think they are needed in most hunting including elk. The match rounds have proven themselves as lethal one shot drops over and over again.
Again - pick the bullet that shoots the best for you. I prefer the hollow point bergers and the hollow points on the Hornady match are even larger and work just as well.
Btw animals are also wounded with match hollow points that have the tips closed and hunters will always blame thier poor placed shot as a miss or it was the bullets design that caused the issue. This happens with premium rounds as well.
 

Chesterwyo

Very Active Member
Messages
1,202
So you should take a premium bullet to Africa to shoot a Kudu, or wildebeest, but they just zip right through an elk?
 
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Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
This could go on forever if you want to go there. This will always be a controversial subject with arguments on both sides. I’ve shot way more rounds than most folks ever will at short to extreme distances and what works for me may not work for you. Match rounds do in fact get the job done and it’s a fact that they perform better at lower velocities (longer range) than premium bullets that stop expanding at 1600 fps.
Sierra (contact them) did ballistic gel testing showing expansion down to 800 fps on the .308 168 matchking bullets. Hornadys testing showed that a bullets Bc dropped at long range due to the erosion/opening of the hollow point tips. Those increased (hollow point) hole diameters resulted in expansion at less than Mach (1100 fps).
Watch you tube videos of premium bullets that blow through ballistic gel blocks without expanding. I have seen multilpe shots that were through the vitals on big game with premium bullets and I’m not impressed. The old Remington core-lock bullets were much better and so are the old Nosler partitions. All copper are the worst of the the premium line.
Berger marketed what many a sniper already knew about match hollow points. There’s no denying that the rounds work and work really well. To say that they don’t -you’ll loose that arguement. Will they penetrate like a premium bonded bullet -no. Will hollow point match rounds create a larger wound channel than a premium - that’s almost a guarantee. Will you loose some meat with a match round - likely some. I would personally rather loose 5-10 lbs of meat and harvest the animal than to loose it and have it go to waste with a premium. Walt Bergers bullets have also been used in Africa with success - for those that don’t believe it can be done.
So I will continue to disagree with those that say a match round can’t be used.
 
Messages
14
Fair enough. I do appreciate everyone’s thoughts.

I did reach out to Barnes and Berger.

Berger recommended the 185 grain classic hunter (due to my 1/11 twist barrel) so I ordered some of those as well as Berger 168.

If I can get them to shoot like the match loads all good. I’ll look around for 165/180 partitions as well. If they are accurate I be ok. Not looking to shoot longer than 400 yards, 200 would be better.

JP
 

Nev638

Member
Messages
25
I have developed many loads using Barnes bullets. I have used them to take deer, elk, and antelope. Used TTSX bullets on all of them. I have never had any issues with them performing. Usually one shot is all it takes and there is no chance of survival from my experience with them. As far as accuracy, I have found they can be tough to get to shoot well in some guns. Other guns shoot them well no matter what you do. I guess that’s probably true of any brand of bullets though. I’ve found the picky ones with Barnes bullets seem to shoot better if I seat the bullet deeper. I have a few loads that were 2” groups until I tried seating deeper than I normally would. They tightened up to around.75” at 100 yards by seating the bullets deeper than was recommended in the Barnes manual. Normally seating bullets out as far as you can results in better accuracy, not with Barnes. That’s just my experience with them. Best groups I’ve ever shot were Barnes TTSX 168 grain. Was able to shoot a 0.6” 5 shot group at 300 yards.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
I’m not sure if your reloading but I’m assuming you are. The Nosler match burners have small -almost closed hollow points. If you take a small diameter metal punch (that you would use for drilling metal) and place it clamped in a vice in the vertical position - you can place the tip of the hollow point (pointing down) onto the punch. Then tap it a few times with a small hammer-this will open the tips up. Bergers are usually .020 -.025 “sized holes. Keep in mind that a 1/32” drill bit is close to .030 for a reference. Don’t drill the holes out - it’s time consuming where the punch method works fast. You might have some really small rough edges after using the punch to open them up - but it won’t affect accuracy enough to matter.
If the tips aren’t opened up - they won’t expand reliably.

You’ll love the performance of the Berger 185,s on big game. And if you stretch your limits to longer shots they are even better. And the Nosler partition bullet creates a large wound channel as the front of the round fragments into the animal- with the rear plowing through for pass through penetration.

One of the big issues we are all facing is component availability. In times like this you can modify and make it work- just like the post WW 2 we’re doing by filing the tips flat on FMJ ammunition.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
I have developed many loads using Barnes bullets. I have used them to take deer, elk, and antelope. Used TTSX bullets on all of them. I have never had any issues with them performing. Usually one shot is all it takes and there is no chance of survival from my experience with them. As far as accuracy, I have found they can be tough to get to shoot well in some guns. Other guns shoot them well no matter what you do. I guess that’s probably true of any brand of bullets though. I’ve found the picky ones with Barnes bullets seem to shoot better if I seat the bullet deeper. I have a few loads that were 2” groups until I tried seating deeper than I normally would. They tightened up to around.75” at 100 yards by seating the bullets deeper than was recommended in the Barnes manual. Normally seating bullets out as far as you can results in better accuracy, not with Barnes. That’s just my experience with them. Best groups I’ve ever shot were Barnes TTSX 168 grain. Was able to shoot a 0.6” 5 shot group at 300 yards.
I’m glad they are working for you. We recovered a (6.5 mm 120 ttsx out of the dirt that passed through an elk at 400 yards. The blue tip was still on the bullet and the round had zero expansion. That elk was hit back in the stomach so no bones to help it open up. The velocity at 400 yards should have still been at 2400 fps as the muzzle velocity was close to 3000 fps. Multiple shots were put into that elk before it went down and everything zipped right through leaving exit holes the same size as the entry.
When we contacted Barnes with the issue they scratched thier heads and said the rounds should have expanded down to 1800 fps.
We annealed (softened the copper) some without the blue tips -to help them expand better. Then they wouldn’t shoot well and copper fouled the barrel badly in just a few shots.
When Barnes makes the all copper bullet it needs to be hard enough on the alloy to withstand high velocities but soft enough to still expand - and that’s really hard to do.
It’s probably a much better performer at shorter ranges where velocities are higher. But I haven’t witnessed it on the hunts I’ve helped guide where lead wasn’t allowed.

But glad to hear they are working for you.
 
Messages
14
I have developed many loads using Barnes bullets. I have used them to take deer, elk, and antelope. Used TTSX bullets on all of them. I have never had any issues with them performing. Usually one shot is all it takes and there is no chance of survival from my experience with them. As far as accuracy, I have found they can be tough to get to shoot well in some guns. Other guns shoot them well no matter what you do. I guess that’s probably true of any brand of bullets though. I’ve found the picky ones with Barnes bullets seem to shoot better if I seat the bullet deeper. I have a few loads that were 2” groups until I tried seating deeper than I normally would. They tightened up to around.75” at 100 yards by seating the bullets deeper than was recommended in the Barnes manual. Normally seating bullets out as far as you can results in better accuracy, not with Barnes. That’s just my experience with them. Best groups I’ve ever shot were Barnes TTSX 168 grain. Was able to shoot a 0.6” 5 shot group at 300 yards.
I’ll look into this. My 300 win and 300 WSM come from the same maker with the only diff being barrel length.

The 300 win loves the 168 Barnes, so maybe playing with seating depth will help the 300 WSM.
 

wytex

Active Member
Messages
905
Get you some 165 gr Grand Slams and work up a load for your rifle. 165 gr Accubonds would be great as well. Either would work for elk and maybe be close to your current loads for a starting point.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
It is not a Nosler match burner
It’s a Barnes match burner - too many bullets to keep track of - my bad….
See pics -match burner on left and Berger 140 vld hunting on right.
Both are 6.5 140 grain bullets
Hollow points and jacket thickness are almost exact on each bullet
Berger has a bigger boat tail and a higher Bc but not by much.
Other calibers are similar to the 6.5

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schoolhousegrizz

Very Active Member
Messages
1,923
My 300 WSM did not like the 175 grain barnes lrx. About 1.5 Moa. I switched to 200 grain eldx. All my groups have been between a half inch and an inch now at 100 yards. 60 grains of h4350.
 
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mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,769
Y
It is not a Nosler match burner
It’s a Barnes match burner - too many bullets to keep track of - my bad….
See pics -match burner on left and Berger 140 vld hunting on right.
Both are 6.5 140 grain bullets
Hollow points and jacket thickness are almost exact on each bullet
Berger has a bigger boat tail and a higher Bc but not by much.
Other calibers are similar to the 6.5

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Yep your bad. Like your advice. mtmuley
 

peez3006

Active Member
Messages
597
My humble opinion is that, if you put the bullet in the right spot, almost any of them will kill. The biggest difference that I’ve seen is meat damage. The fragile target bullets are going to waste a lot more meat than a copper bullet. Gut shoot an elk at 400 yards with a 6.5 with any bullet, and you‘ve got a wounded elk.
But to answer the original question. My 300 wsm likes the Barnes 168 ttsx and RL17.
Don
 

S-3 Ranch

Active Member
Messages
138
This stuff is very hilarious, bullets passing through elk with the tip still on :rolleyes:
where are the pictures? Pictures or it didn’t happen, the laws of physics out weigh some rumor by some internet wonder :LOL:
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
This stuff is very hilarious, bullets passing through elk with the tip still on :rolleyes:
where are the pictures? Pictures or it didn’t happen, the laws of physics out weigh some rumor by some internet wonder :LOL:
A picture wouldn’t be believed by some other “internet wonder” (your included S3 Ranch) anyway. Give some good data as to why an all copper (hardened for high velocities) will still expand at lower velocities. Contact Bucks and Bulls and ask them about the hunt unit on Kennecott’s property (Heaston east) that requires non lead bullets. Kennecott has a policy of -you draw blood and your hunts over. Ask them about how many hunts have ended without a harvest due to the use of all copper bullets. And ask them about the punch throughs and low trama/damage on the animals that were harvested. I’ve been on several of those hunts helping and watched the guides shake their heads in disgust. Could some of the issues be poor shot placement - absolutely. But when an animal is shot right through the vitals and it takes 30 minutes and multiple well placed shots needed for it to die - it’s pretty sad to see. And worse to loose one and have your cwmu limited entry tag gone.
It’s not “hilarious” when it happens…….
 

S-3 Ranch

Active Member
Messages
138
A picture wouldn’t be believed by some other “internet wonder” (your included S3 Ranch) anyway. Give some good data as to why an all copper (hardened for high velocities) will still expand at lower velocities. Contact Bucks and Bulls and ask them about the hunt unit on Kennecott’s property (Heaston east) that requires non lead bullets. Kennecott has a policy of -you draw blood and your hunts over. Ask them about how many hunts have ended without a harvest due to the use of all copper bullets. And ask them about the punch throughs and low trama/damage on the animals that were harvested. I’ve been on several of those hunts helping and watched the guides shake their heads in disgust. Could some of the issues be poor shot placement - absolutely. But when an animal is shot right through the vitals and it takes 30 minutes and multiple well placed shots needed for it to die - it’s pretty sad to see. And worse to loose one and have your cwmu limited entry tag gone.
It’s not “hilarious” when it happens…….
Ok, I have owned my outfitting company since 1987 , and have seen thousands of kills on every type animal in North America, and our ranch helped do testing on the original Barnes X in the 1990’s , everyone has a different opinion and that’s always controversial .
usually scientific field test dispelled those rumors

””Killing critters just isn’t that hard. Put it where it needs to be in the velocity window the bullet will expand in and you will be fine””

good reading https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/83865
 
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Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
Ok, I have owned my outfitting company since 1987 , and have seen thousands of kills on every type animal in North America, and our ranch helped do testing on the original Barnes X in the 1990’s , everyone has a different opinion and that’s always controversial .
usually scientific field test dispelled those rumors
Golly - see that wasn’t so hard to do. Different opinions and controversial is what premium/non premium/ and hollow points will always be for hunters and competition shooters and military snipers that use hollow points per the 1899 Hague declaration. (That can be a whole new post on hollow point bullets).
I don’t like and won’t hunt elk with Barnes copper bullets - my experiences with them are horrible.
I hunt with hollow point match ammo with the tips opened almost exclusively - and others will say that’s a bad idea and state horrible experiences with them as well.

I also like Nosler partitions and Remington core -locks
I’ve tried cutting edge all copper (the petals break off on the front) and they are better than the Barnes - but still not enough trauma or wound channel for my likes. But if I had to use copper bullets- it would be cutting edge.
Theirs advantages and disadvantages to every bullet design out there. To say that the 168 match burner (BARNES) wouldn’t work on big game Is false.
On my end - to say a Barnes copper won’t work is also false - I just won’t use them.

This will continue to be a controversial subject that won’t end. The data is there to back up the claims from “everyone”involved in this post.
 
Messages
14
Thank you for everyone’s input. I’ll get some partitions (180 grain) as they closely resemble the nosler solid base bullets federal loaded years ago and this rifle loves.

Between Berger, changing depth of the Barnes, and Nosler partitions maybe I’ll find something.

Or I’ll shooter federal blue box...lol!! (Yes, it shoots those amazingly well)

This will take a while but when I’m done I’ll report back.

Thanks all!!

JP
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,769
Explain yourself in detail why the advice is bad. Give some real-time data as to why.
You are all over the place with your bullet knowledge. Bergers to Core Lokts being the best? All copper bullets are junk? What do you consider a "premium" bullet? Always wondered where that useless term came from. mtmuley
 

Chesterwyo

Very Active Member
Messages
1,202
A picture wouldn’t be believed by some other “internet wonder” (your included S3 Ranch) anyway. Give some good data as to why an all copper (hardened for high velocities) will still expand at lower velocities. Contact Bucks and Bulls and ask them about the hunt unit on Kennecott’s property (Heaston east) that requires non lead bullets. Kennecott has a policy of -you draw blood and your hunts over. Ask them about how many hunts have ended without a harvest due to the use of all copper bullets. And ask them about the punch throughs and low trama/damage on the animals that were harvested. I’ve been on several of those hunts helping and watched the guides shake their heads in disgust. Could some of the issues be poor shot placement - absolutely. But when an animal is shot right through the vitals and it takes 30 minutes and multiple well placed shots needed for it to die - it’s pretty sad to see. And worse to loose one and have your cwmu limited entry tag gone.
It’s not “hilarious” when it happens…….
Low trauma on a dead elk huh? GTFOH.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
You are all over the place with your bullet knowledge. Bergers to Core Lokts being the best? All copper bullets are junk? What do you consider a "premium" bullet? Always wondered where that useless term came from. mtmuley
You can’t even give any data to explain yourself on the last question. Talking to you is a complete waste of time and energy.

So please help everyone on this post understand why my advice is so bad and bring some science or articles to back yourself up.

Oh I get it - just another troublemaker that can’t back anything up -

If you have so much darn much knowledge on bullets share it - I have shared my knowledge and it’s pretty extensive.
Contribute to something instead of tearing it down without anything to back it up. Are you capable of contributing ???
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,769
You can’t even give any data to explain yourself on the last question. Talking to you is a complete waste of time and energy.

So please help everyone on this post understand why my advice is so bad and bring some science or articles to back yourself up.

Oh I get it - just another troublemaker that can’t back anything up -

If you have so much darn much knowledge on bullets share it - I have shared my knowledge and it’s pretty extensive.
Contribute to something instead of tearing it down without anything to back it up. Are you capable of contributing ???
What data you want? mtmuley
 

Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,887
Ah shucks, What's bullet failure to one guy is success to another.

Never had the horrible experience with Barnes and I shot them for decades, ever since Randy started the X while he was in AF.

Shot some critters with Bergers and never saw the horrible experience some guys claim.
No doubt a more frangible will expand "better" at extended distances, fact.

Not sure there are many bullets out there that I have not used on big game at one time or another. Way too many to list.

Also no doubt, many (most all) critters that "get away" are NOT hit in the vitals. Period.

So, my conclusion: there's no right or wrong answer.
A guy needs to what he feels best for HIM if it's based on real-world fact.

Zeke
 

El Gringo

Active Member
Messages
709
Thank you for everyone’s input. I’ll get some partitions (180 grain) as they closely resemble the nosler solid base bullets federal loaded years ago and this rifle loves.

Between Berger, changing depth of the Barnes, and Nosler partitions maybe I’ll find something.

Or I’ll shooter federal blue box...lol!! (Yes, it shoots those amazingly well)

This will take a while but when I’m done I’ll report back.

Thanks all!!

JP
We’re not done arguing man!!!!
 

Chesterwyo

Very Active Member
Messages
1,202
Fugg that. Just listen to some guy from the internet with anecdotal stories about how effective they are. You’re far better off put a fist sized hole in the ass end of an elk with a match bullet than you are to inflict “low trauma” in the vitals with an actual bullet made for killing elk.
 

S-3 Ranch

Active Member
Messages
138
yup your right. I gotta quit asking Barnes/Berger for advice. (Amateurs)

This is a whole lot more fun!!!
Gotta realize most bullets are designed to kill stuff @ 50 -500 meters and most guys on here don’t even bother to pull the trigger unless you add a zero to that , 500-1200 meters :oops:
I am still waiting on a picture of a bullet that fell out of a elk after a complete pass through with the poly tip still attached :ROFLMAO:
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
12,058
Gotta realize most bullets are designed to kill stuff @ 50 -500 meters and most guys on here don’t even bother to pull the trigger unless you add a zero to that , 500-1200 meters :oops:
I am still waiting on a picture of a bullet that fell out of a elk after a complete pass through with the poly tip still attached :ROFLMAO:
me too.....who looked for it and how long did it take?
 

El Gringo

Active Member
Messages
709
There are “Shooters” and there are hunters…. they usually stand at either end of this debate. It’s easy to spot the shooters… they talk about “Real scopes that dial” and match bullets.
 
Messages
14
Your probably correct in that assessment. I’m positive that most if not all of you on this forum have shot way more animals than I could ever dream of.

I’m also pretty certain you all can shoot lights out push come to shove.

When I was 12 my father decided I needed to understand how far my rifle could shoot and how to shoot it accurately. (I tried to stalk a wide open deer when it was 100 yards away-my father wasn’t amused, and no I didn’t get a shot off at the deer)

I joined a junior rifle shooting club. In that period of time I shot thousands of .22 rounds, and shot in many competitions all over the nation and was coached by some of the best. I also had the opportunity to shoot hi-power matches out to 600 yards with the army folks as well. (Great guys)

That ability was wonderful for hunting as my dad felt we had it “covered” when I had the 300 weatherby in my hands. (Amazing rifle)

If I get hung up on accuracy it’s because I’m wired up that way from competition shooting-it’s my crutch. (I’m not that good anymore and it obviously bugs me)

Thanks to all that have posted. I do appreciate what you have shared. (Some of it was hilarious most was very informative)

When I get my princess figured out I’ll follow up.

JP
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
There are “Shooters” and there are hunters…. they usually stand at either end of this debate. It’s easy to spot the shooters… they talk about “Real scopes that dial” and match bullets.
Gringo
Why don’t you give a good explanation of the above comment ? And the other sissy comments from S-3 and Mt Muley that haven’t been answered yet ?
Give us all an ethics course about a real hunter.
Your 1 liners are just to cause trouble right?
So please educate everyone on what a shooter and a hunter are.
 

El Gringo

Active Member
Messages
709
Gringo
Why don’t you give a good explanation of the above comment ? And the other sissy comments from S-3 and Mt Muley that haven’t been answered yet ?
Give us all an ethics course about a real hunter.
Your 1 liners are just to cause trouble right?
So please educate everyone on what a shooter and a hunter are.
OOF… Sensitive….

It was just an observation about this debate. Every Monkey to their own branch. I gave you my opinion. Go dial your Nightforce and shoot your match bullets. If you lose a Bull, don’t come back and whine about it. I don’t care what you hunt with. I wish you the best of luck. We all have our opinions.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
Your probably correct in that assessment. I’m positive that most if not all of you on this forum have shot way more animals than I could ever dream of.

I’m also pretty certain you all can shoot lights out push come to shove.

When I was 12 my father decided I needed to understand how far my rifle could shoot and how to shoot it accurately. (I tried to stalk a wide open deer when it was 100 yards away-my father wasn’t amused, and no I didn’t get a shot off at the deer)

I joined a junior rifle shooting club. In that period of time I shot thousands of .22 rounds, and shot in many competitions all over the nation and was coached by some of the best. I also had the opportunity to shoot hi-power matches out to 600 yards with the army folks as well. (Great guys)

That ability was wonderful for hunting as my dad felt we had it “covered” when I had the 300 weatherby in my hands. (Amazing rifle)

If I get hung up on accuracy it’s because I’m wired up that way from competition shooting-it’s my crutch. (I’m not that good anymore and it obviously bugs me)

Thanks to all that have posted. I do appreciate what you have shared. (Some of it was hilarious most was very informative)

When I get my princess figured out I’ll follow up.

JP
You at least went out and did the research from Barnes directly on the match burner bullets and that’s more than many on this post did - so that’s a big plus.
I knew that your original post was going to be controversial and that is has. Interesting that only berger recommends thier hollow point match rounds for hunting. Sierra/Lapua/Hornady/Matrix/ and many others including Barnes do not recommend the match lineup of bullets for hunting. But all the above share the same common jacket thickness and hollow point point and nose that’s void of lead for approx 1/4 inch. And you will find videos and/or forums on kills on animals with all of these bullets above.
There’s some good info out on the web that tests the match burner in ballistic gel that can also back the above up. Tests that show it performs similar to a berger hollow point. I haven’t shot “thousands of animals” like S-3. (Fish and game might want to know about it though) but I’ve shot plenty. I will never use a Barnes all copper bullet for anything related to hunting and don’t buy into premium bullet hype. I’ve seen the narrow wound channels and suffering from the Barnes and I’m not a believer and that’s never going to change for me personally. But they might be perfect for you and many others. Best of wishes on your quest. This will continue to be controversial.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
OOF… Sensitive….

It was just an observation about this debate. Every Monkey to their own branch. I gave you my opinion. Go dial your Nightforce and shoot your match bullets. If you lose a Bull, don’t come back and whine about it. I don’t care what you hunt with. I wish you the best of luck. We all have our opinions.
Your amazing.
You should work for CSI. You have me profiled perfectly -LOL………..
Go back and answer the previous question please. At least this time you have more than a 1 liner.
And now you can answer why using a night force and wounding bulls go hand in hand.

I’m going to go out on a limb and profile you now. I’m guessing you were road hunting and finally saw something to shoot and saw it drop by another hunter before you had time to shoot it. Your “tiny tears” of sadness have led your quest to gather anger against precision shooting - something that’s out of reach with grandpas hand me down 30-30.
“It’s just not fair”
I will address you as “tiny tears” from now forth.
Please explain why night force and match bullets wound animals - this is going to be good.
 

mtmuley

Long Time Member
Messages
5,769
Your amazing.
You should work for CSI. You have me profiled perfectly -LOL………..
Go back and answer the previous question please. At least this time you have more than a 1 liner.
And now you can answer why using a night force and wounding bulls go hand in hand.

I’m going to go out on a limb and profile you now. I’m guessing you were road hunting and finally saw something to shoot and saw it drop by another hunter before you had time to shoot it. Your “tiny tears” of sadness have led your quest to gather anger against precision shooting - something that’s out of reach with grandpas hand me down 30-30.
“It’s just not fair”
I will address you as “tiny tears” from now forth.
Please explain why night force and match bullets wound animals - this is going to be good.
You are really a piece of work. Carry on. mtmuley
 

MountainSqwabler

Active Member
Messages
311
I see the problem here immediately......he shoots a 6.5 and a .300 WSM.....I bet he drinks IPA beer, wears a flat bill and shoots 600yrds at an animal and is confused when he hits it in the A$$ or misses.

But don't worry...his hollow points with the holes not closed on the tips do so much damage that they will kill on a butt shot.
 

El Gringo

Active Member
Messages
709
@Ballistic
I didn’t mean to piss you off, bud, it’s just banter, and debate. I’m sorry you got wrapped around the axle. All I meant by the Shooters/hunters deal, is there are guys that shoot, a lot all year long, and are gear guys. A lot of these guys are killers no doubt.
Anyway, apologies for getting you all twisted.

I still completely disagree with shooting match bullets at Elk. That’s my opinion, based on my experience.

I have killed dozens of head of big game with .30’s so It’s not just textbook theory.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
@Ballistic
I didn’t mean to piss you off, bud, it’s just banter, and debate. I’m sorry you got wrapped around the axle. All I meant by the Shooters/hunters deal, is there are guys that shoot, a lot all year long, and are gear guys. A lot of these guys are killers no doubt.
Anyway, apologies for getting you all twisted.

I still completely disagree with shooting match bullets at Elk. That’s my opinion, based on my experience.

I have killed dozens of head of big game with .30’s so It’s not just textbook theory.
No need for an apology but I like you now -lol. I can take the hits and I can dish them out as well. There’s lots of data out there that supports that match bullets shouldn’t be used for hunting. And lots of data that supports the same rounds not expanding at low velocities or over expanding at high velocities. I’ve called Mt Muley ( hit and run wonder) out to give some explanation on this subject and it’s not hard to find the cons in anything. I was a non believer in using match rounds many years ago so I understand it. My experiences with the Barnes have been really bad so I won’t use them and that’s my opinion. I could have been nicer about it - but I don’t really care about being politically correct.
Controversial is what this subject will always be. It’s true that a well placed bullet will do the job - but hunters don’t always place that bullet where it should be. Solids have their place and so do the match hollow points. Each will have its pluses and minuses. I was waiting for someone to explain this to help educate folks. If the bullet and powder and components shortage continues -we might be filing the ends off of full metal jackets for hunting.

Thanks for your reply and my apologies to you as well.
 

Ballistic

Member
Messages
22
I remember watching this video a while ago. It's interesting.

Good video
The interesting think about the 140 eld match vs the older 140 hollow point match is that the 2 bullets are almost exactly the same Except the eld has a red tip and the older hollow point match does not.
The 143 eldx has the red tip and a hollow/empty section between the lead and tip that helps expansion.
Eldx is just an altered 140 hollow point match by origin with a heavier jacket. Hornady does not recommend the eld match or hollow point match for hunting.

Although this video is about 6.5 mm the 6/7mm and 30/338 calibers follow the same with design on hollow point match to eld match and eldx bullets.

Thanks for sharing.
 

joesikora

Very Active Member
Messages
2,758
Hi,

Been spending the summer sorting out the 300 win...it’s good. 3 good shots (pulled the third shot-so all ok)

Sorted out the 30-06. (You can see the walk up to the center).

Now the 300 WSM...it shoots Nosler Match 168 grain bullets like this...(see 3rd pic-4 shots) however it’s not a fan of the Barnes 168’s. Thinking maybe Berger 168’s??

The 300 WSM is my goto gun so I’m flailing around a bit. (It shoots ONLY Federal factory ammo which is expensive and hard to get-a bit of a finicky princess)

Suggestions??

View attachment 82643

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That’s some fine shootin there
 

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