English Sporting Muzzleloader Shotgun

cannonball

Very Active Member
Messages
1,264
This fall I finished this 12 gauge shotgun. What a blast to load and shoot. The Grandsons are quite good at shooting clays. Different sound than the modern shotguns and the spotter has to tell you whether you hit the clays.

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Beautiful….I would love to walk in a trap club with that thing. Well done.

Any any gun that takes a crew of 2 is badass.
 
Thanks. It is a blast and the best part of all is you don't need to clean between shots. At least 25 plus anyway
 
I think we need to haul it over to the Trap Club and trying it on the trap. Our last try was a……….. classic senior moment.

Looking forward to trying out the one you’re building now.
 
I have a single bbl. 12 guage muzzy I need to sell.
Custom made in the mid/late 80’s for my Dad somewhere in Texas.
Anyone interested?

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Side Hammers don't shoot BH very well unless you have a hotshot nipple or what ever they call them. The real stuff is best for them. BH if for the dudes. Your not a gin-u-one' muzzlestuffer with these modern gunns and scopes is' for sissies.(n)(n):)

Why the heck can't Utah see the light. They need to have a training camp in New Mexico.
 
Side Hammers don't shoot BH very well unless you have a hotshot nipple or what ever they call them. The real stuff is best for them. BH if for the dudes. Your not a gin-u-one' muzzlestuffer with these modern gunns and scopes is' for sissies.(n)(n):)

Why the heck can't Utah see the light. They need to have a training camp in New Mexico.
No worries, never had anything but the real stuff shot out of it.
In fact, gun comes with some partial cans of the real stuff and some loading components.
 
Hey cannonball, please post up a picture or two of the project you’re working on now. A few before and after progress pictures would be fun to see.
 
Lumpy, the site is a little dead and my methods are a little un-orthodox so it may be interesting for a few. Step 1 is to draw file the flats of the barrel and smooth the tapered edge of the parts of the breech plug and tang. Step 2 is to route the smallest part of the barrel. This is a swamped barrel. It is 1 1/8" at the breach and the octagon part of the barrel narrows to 1". Handwork and inletting black are use from here. I scrape it with the special 1" chisel tool as shown in the picture. Mark the barrel with inletting black, scrap the channel of barrel. Set the barrel in place, tap leaving a black mark and repeat, repeat, and repeat. Those procedures go on with all of the inletting of parts. The tang and other parts are put in place, marked with a pencil and the center wood is removed well inside the pencil mark. Some gun builders use a scribe or knife. I do not. I found that tapping and remove the black is better for me. I leave plenty of wood so the inletted metal parts are well below the wood . You can see the removal process on the tang area with the black to be removed. A few hours when I want to work on it gets the job done. clamp the barrel in place and the next step is the ramrod hole.

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You are definitely a talented artist. Thanks for sharing the pictures and your process. I can say this much, everything you’ve ever built is an excellent build and a great shooter.
 
Thanks, but stop it Lumpy. I don't need the praise:). I an getting older, the winter's long, and I am after something to do. You got me started, so even if you are the only one, watch me progress over the months, as I'll have some more pictures.
 
Thanks, but stop it Lumpy. I don't need the praise:). I a getting older, the winter's long, and I am after something to do. You got me started, so even if you are the only one, watch me progress over the months, as I'll have some more pictures.
Do it. And, I praise when praise is due. Even for you, you cranky old SOB!
 
Step 1 & 2 was inletting the barrel, breech plug and tang. Step 3 is drilling the ramrod hole . Over the years I have found the long ramrod drll bit wanders(usually) so control it. I always drill the ramrod hole with the lock side up. If is going to wander, gravity has a small affect and I want want the hole centered or a little away from the lock area. I use a cordless drill and check with a small hole three times on the inside flat of the barrel to see where I am at. I use a Q-tip plastic staff with a flashlight looking thru the shaft down the hole It tells me which way of wander. I also have an undersize drill bit to correct an unwanted wander. Once you have a smaller pilot hole for the wander, the bigger bit will follow to a point.
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I just finished inletting the lock. Want to see how to inlet a lock? There are a lot of sites out there who have videos. The things i am showing are peculiar to my way of doing things. As you can see in the photos I like straight lines and a squared blank. You can also see I pencil around the parts, remove the center part of the wood. I then use inletting black to get my exact mark for carving. I mark and use calipers in inletting and shaping the stock. I find it much easier. With this English sporting rifle the lock area side and the other side are not parallel to each other. I sanded the flat area down for my starting point for the bevel of the lock. It took me 2 minutes with a fast speed grinder and 32 grit sanding belt. The front part is 1 5/8" and the back is 1 3/8 apart. Alex Henry and most other English makers did that. I don't know why, but I will follow their lead. I inlet one of the "guts" at a time. Tried putting the whole lock together, using the inletting black for the internal parts thought I would go mad before I got the installed lock to work. I mark and drill in the wood every place there is a screw hole. It gives me a reference point as to depth of inletting the '"guts". The photo of the lock shows the bridal installed. After that part is inletted I move on and add another internal part of the lock.
Now I have the lock installed I know where the sear is. I will place and position(to meet the sear in the right place) the finished trigger assembly(came as rough cast parts) on the surface and draw pencil lines for the bottom of the gun. The trigger also gives me the position for the butt plate 13 3/4" pull.

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Chipp’en away. Sure looks different when you’re done.

Gonna be cold again next week, keep that propane heater fired up for another month!!!
 
Don't use propane in the shop. I use baseboard electric and this gun has already cost me an extra $100 for heat bills this month. The kids got me a TV for Christmas for the shop. Never have it on when I am working on the gun. If the TV was going I can't concentrate on what is happening to the Utah Mule Deer herd this winter. Sure wish I had a bathroom.
Remember a year in the late 50's that was like this one. There were carcasses of deer all over the foothills by the time the winter was over. Difference was there were many times more deer then, and the herd rebounded in just a couple of years. It was open season on cougars and bear during those years. I think all predators should have to draw for a permit to take a deer.
 
Don't use propane in the shop. I use baseboard electric and this gun has already cost me an extra $100 for heat bills this month. The kids got me a TV for Christmas for the shop. Never have it on when I am working on the gun. If the TV was going I can't concentrate on what is happening to the Utah Mule Deer herd this winter. Sure wish I had a bathroom.
Remember a year in the late 50's that was like this one. There were carcasses of deer all over the foothills by the time the winter was over. Difference was there were many times more deer then, and the herd rebounded in just a couple of years. It was open season on cougars and bear during those years. I think all predators should have to draw for a permit to take a deer.
Should be able to use your Deer tag on a Bear or Cat if you choose to.
 
As you can see I have been on the band saw with the outline of the gun stock. I use a square and calipers for placement of the trigger, bolts. and anything else I can measure this way. I like a center line all around the stock. I use neither a cast-on or cast-off. One side is smooth and straight so reference point lines are easy with a square and pencil. With a drill hole in the bottom of the stock to the sear I can now mark the trigger for inletting. I like all of that square wood for not only the measurements, but also use a vise and can be rough with the stock. The butt plate will be installed with large file and all letting will be done at this point except the metal inlay for the barrel wedge.
Now it is tedious inletting with the carving tools for all parts with lots of inletting black. Then I will use the fast speed grinder and rough shape the gun. It takes about 1/2 hour or less for this process. I take the grinder outside so it might be a while. It has got to be a lot warmer than this to do that.

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As you can see I have been on the band saw with the outline of the gun stock. I use a square and calipers for placement of the trigger, bolts. and anything else I can measure this way. I like a center line all around the stock. I use neither a cast-on or cast-off. One side is smooth and straight so reference point lines are easy with a square and pencil. With a drill hole in the bottom of the stock to the sear I can now mark the trigger for inletting. I like all of that square wood for not only the measurements, but also use a vise and can be rough with the stock. The butt plate will be installed with large file and all letting will be done at this point except the metal inlay for the barrel wedge.
Now it is tedious inletting with the carving tools for all parts with lots of inletting black. Then I will use the fast speed grinder and rough shape the gun. It takes about 1/2 hour or less for this process. I take the grinder outside so it might be a while. It has got to be a lot warmer than this to do that.

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Just curious why no cast off?

That was a critical dimension on my one and only custom shotgun.
 
You build a custom gun for a "person". I have built a couple of cast-off muzzleloaders. Can't see much difference. For hunting purposes cast-neutral is ok. I believe that is what Browning is. Some of the trap shooters have cast-off, some have cast-neutral and once in a great while, a shooter may want a cast-on. I shoot left handed, my boy who will get this shoots left handed, but his four boys are all right handed. The only parts I could get for an English Sporting ML are right handed. The first one I made was cast-neutral and everybody who shot it, loves the way it shoulders. That is except left handers, who don't like the lock on the wrong side. :)
 
here is the last photos before I shape the gun with the grinder. I am going to wait until the weather moderates. While I am waiting I will be filing and sanding the metal parts to get rid of their cast and mold finish. I can also solder the drip rail above the front of the lock and underlug to the barrel. Notice how deep I inlet the metal part to the wood. The reason for this is to get an exact fit. At least for me, if I don't do it there may be a small seeable gap. The places where I sanded it to appox shape was a minute here and there. The shaping will take about half an hour. Now i am going to be careful with the gun. To this point I put the steel jaws of the vice to the wood. I seem to get more inletting black to the stock than where I am inletting the part. I have not been careful with the stock. to this point the square angles are an advantage for a symmetrical gun.

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Somewhere, in that mess……. there’s a beautiful shotgun. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like. Thanks for sharing the process.
 
Lumpy, I hope so. I have got to admit the ultimate insult is when someone says that's a nice "kit" gun.
 
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It finally got warm enough to pull the project out to rough grind the gun with the high speed grinder. Usually this operation takes little over a 1/2 hour. There is so much saw dust in the air I pull the grinder outside. I spent two hours on it and wasn't even close. Thought to myself, your just getting old. After thawing out, changed the belt, and went at it again. Fifteen minutes later I was finished. The new 32 grit went through the wood like butter. My Dad always said a person who uses dull tools is a person who is going to get hurt. Guess that applies to sanding belts. Anyway this is how it looks after the grinding sessions. Next is hand rasping and rough sanding and fine sanding. Other than these photos nothing more to send until the fine sanded project is done.
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Amazing…… what a difference two hours makes. Looking great. Post up your progress on the hand checking as you put in on.
 
Went out and shot the unfinished smoothbore shotgun with a finish nail electrical taped on for a front sight and a screw slot for the rear. This is 6" group, a five shot group with a .600 ball at 50 yards.

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The 400 grit sanding is done. The next step is checkering and there are a lot of videos are on u-tube on that subject so I am not going to get into whole process. My comments here may vary from the experts, but I have found this process is hard enough to stay in the lines and I need every crutch I can get. This is the most time consuming thing I have done and requires 100% of your attention 100% your time. Let your mind wander and i can guarantee there will be a grove you didn't want. The tools are not cheap either. I make a flexible straight edge from a file folder 1/2" wide that I use that to wrap around the stock for the fine pencil line. I determine the shape, bearing in mind the diamond angle (older guns had different configurations than most modern guns). Make sure the lines are light so you can erase them with a soft eraser. I like the line every 1/2" to keep me straight. If you find a line start to curve you fool the eye by correcting before it gets bad with your fine
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pencil, your straight edge and the single checkering tool. Professionals are better at that than I am. I use the veining chisel to follow the first pencil line, then I smooth with the single checking tool, then move on with the double checkering tool which one leg follows the previous groove (photo 1) then repeat, repeat, and repeat. example (photo 2) Think your done - - guess again. After you have them deep enough with the 60 deep degree, you go back with a 90 degree tool, flare and smooth everything again.
This is maple to be stained and finished later. Walnut that is not stained has a finish before checkering.
 
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The top two are 45 caliber 1 in 18" twist target rifles. The second one is a 12 ga. smoothbore and the front one is the one I just finished which is a 20 ga. shotgun or .60 caliber slug gun. That is the one I have been working on and is done with the exception of engraving/dark gun-metaling the metal parts.
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Cannonball, you better post up that new Hawken style you just finished. There’s a few ole boy here that will love seeing it……. besides me.
 
WOW!!
Beautiful muzzleloaders!!
Don’t know how I miss this post before. Great looking rifles and a lot of work went into each. Thanks for sharing.
 
Here you go Lumpy. The actual color is somewhere in between the two pictures. This gun has a 31 inch barrel. One of Kit Carson's Hawken had that same length rather the the 34 to 36 inch barrel's usually seen on a lot of Hawkens. The color of the stock even looks better than the pictures
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