Explaining 90/10 %

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PleaseDear

PleaseDear

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I will have 18 points for moose this year as a NR but looking to move to Wy within the next year so I guess I will benefit from it.
 
I have no problem with residents getting the lions share of the tags. Wyoming has been very generous to the NR for a long time.

My issue is the drastic change to a system that has been in place for such a long time. A lot of people have invested a lot of money into points for those species.

I’m not one of them, so I have no dog in the fight. But I think it sucks for the guys that do.
 
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At 66 years old my 18 NR sheep PP’s are worthless. I will never get up the ladder far enough to get a tag using those points. I’ll probably continue applying for a miracle tag in the random, but the PP draw will never happen for me now.

Mackey
 
With the new ratio, there won't be any random draw tags for nonresident sheep. Well, maybe one, but unlikely. It is a set-up to change the system further, because with zero random draw tags, only the very, very few at the top of the ladder will still apply.
The state run Ponzi scheme has just collapsed, and the residents love it.
Bill
 
Mackey said:
At 66 years old my 18 NR sheep PP’s are worthless. I will never get up the ladder far enough to get a tag using those points. I’ll probably continue applying for a miracle tag in the random, but the PP draw will never happen for me now.

Mackey
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At 66 you should have max points. Life isn’t fair.
 
llamapacker said:
With the new ratio, there won't be any random draw tags for nonresident sheep. Well, maybe one, but unlikely. It is a set-up to change the system further, because with zero random draw tags, only the very, very few at the top of the ladder will still apply.
The state run Ponzi scheme has just collapsed, and the residents love it.
Bill
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It’s not even comparable to a Ponzi scheme but if that helps you through the healing process by all means keep doing it.
 
MaineFlatlander said:
A lucky NR. Drew my moose tag a few years ago and sheep two years ago. I think 10% is fair but with the current system there will be no random tags.

I believe the residents will get 26(?) more sheep tags Good for them….until 30 NR with 20 points move in the next year.
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Haha. But even then they have to be here a full year so really no matter what it will be 2 years out.
 
If I were sitting on enough points I would move to Wyoming for a while when I retire - 5th lowest tax rate in the nation helps.

Still glad I got out after I purchased only 1 point - the writing was on the wall for me when they went to $100/pt.
 
I have 21 moose points.

I’ll stay with the moose draw, at least to see how it looks next year. if I don’t draw this year. Have a 25% chance, based on last years data. If I had 15 moose or sheep points I’ll be really really frustrated. $150 a year, for the last few years, has been a chunk. Prior to that they were $75 as I recall, not quite so bad then.

I believe with 21 moose points, I can still draw a tag, on a few units. But, other than those guys that are only 2 or 3 years out, the rest are going going to feel very unfairly treated.

Having said that, I have no problem with the 90/10 change. Times have changed, demand, supply, trends, etc etc and these changes justify Wyoming’s sportsmen asking for a similar NR ratio as neighboring States, I just think Wyoming was rather harsh on the long time applicants and left them hung out, with no possible return on their investment.

I suspect other States will be watching what happens regarding possible legal actions and what the courts do. I believe other States have wanted to make some changes with their preference, bonus, lifetime license systems. If Wyoming courts decide this change is legal and within the rights of the State of Wyoming, other States may believe changes to their systems may be do-able as well. That may be a good thing, especially for our younger generations.
 
I strongly disagree that it will be a good thing for our younger generation! The doors are closing each year on our Western US hunting heritage for nonres DIY/OYO hunters. If you are a nonres youth that lives in a state across the US that doesn't have antelope, mule deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose, etc your opportunity to hunt these species in your lifetime is slowly fading. Not only with higher nonres application fees but fewer and fewer nonres hunting tags available.

It's extremely sad to see states like Wyo even considering setting aside a chunk of public tags that would be offered to outfitters. I guess if you are fortunate to be a kid growing up with a wealthy father this may be great. I know for me and other father's across the country we can barely afford applying our kids for nonres tags with high application fees that offer single digit draw odds. Obviously youth are the real losers when this happens. So much for father-son hunts as nonres in the Western US!

The opportunity we as nonres DIY/OYO hunters had growing up is fading. It's a really sad day when states like Wyo that have offered such great opportunity to nonres DIY/OYO hunters are suddenly pulling the plug. What's even sadder is that my home state of Colo will likely follow in Wyo's footsteps if this happens.

I really feel sad for young hunters across the United States that aren't fortunate to live in a state with Western US big game recourses and opportunity!
 
I am confused. Is the 90/10 just for moose, sheep, goats or is it for all big game species? I only apply for antelope tags in Wy.
 
jims said:
I strongly disagree that it will be a good thing for our younger generation! The doors are closing each year on our Western US hunting heritage for nonres DIY/OYO hunters. If you are a nonres youth that lives in a state across the US that doesn't have antelope, mule deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose, etc your opportunity to hunt these species in your lifetime is slowly fading. Not only with higher nonres application fees but fewer and fewer nonres hunting tags available.

It's extremely sad to see states like Wyo even considering setting aside a chunk of public tags that would be offered to outfitters. I guess if you are fortunate to be a kid growing up with a wealthy father this may be great. I know for me and other father's across the country we can barely afford applying our kids for nonres tags with high application fees that offer single digit draw odds. Obviously youth are the real losers when this happens. So much for father-son hunts as nonres in the Western US!

The opportunity we as nonres DIY/OYO hunters had growing up is fading. It's a really sad day when states like Wyo that have offered such great opportunity to nonres DIY/OYO hunters are suddenly pulling the plug. What's even sadder is that my home state of Colo will likely follow in Wyo's footsteps if this happens.

I really feel sad for young hunters across the United States that aren't fortunate to live in a state with Western US big game recourses and opportunity!
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Haha. You are suddenly concerned about WY setting aside chunks of licenses?

What about Colorado. In CO there is a chunk of guaranteed transferable land owner tags right off the top. Then there is a pile of PLO tags, then RFW, etc. yeah Colorado is so concerned about youth and future hunters with the fact that point creep for resident and NR is climbing and it is still not a matter of time before a 12 year old has not chance at a deer tag due to point creep. Should we consider what Pronghorn hunting opportunity exist in CO for youth?

Come on, 90/10 for Moose Sheep Goats etc. is not affecting a single youth…
 
So far we have a ton people saying I am out… Which is good because as people leave it means better odds for those that stay.

Then another pile of people who say they are moving to WY, which again would help the NR draw odds.

So far the reaction to move appears to be separating those who are dedicated from those who were not. The end result will be better odds for those who truly want to hunt???

Oh and then there is the whole world is falling apart. Our pets heads are falling off, no youth will have a chance, it is the end of western hunting as we know it, etc. I gues at least the sky is not falling…
 
jims said:
I strongly disagree that it will be a good thing for our younger generation! The doors are closing each year on our Western US hunting heritage for nonres DIY/OYO hunters. If you are a nonres youth that lives in a state across the US that doesn't have antelope, mule deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose, etc your opportunity to hunt these species in your lifetime is slowly fading. Not only with higher nonres application fees but fewer and fewer nonres hunting tags available.

It's extremely sad to see states like Wyo even considering setting aside a chunk of public tags that would be offered to outfitters. I guess if you are fortunate to be a kid growing up with a wealthy father this may be great. I know for me and other father's across the country we can barely afford applying our kids for nonres tags with high application fees that offer single digit draw odds. Obviously youth are the real losers when this happens. So much for father-son hunts as nonres in the Western US!

The opportunity we as nonres DIY/OYO hunters had growing up is fading. It's a really sad day when states like Wyo that have offered such great opportunity to nonres DIY/OYO hunters are suddenly pulling the plug. What's even sadder is that my home state of Colo will likely follow in Wyo's footsteps if this happens.

I really feel sad for young hunters across the United States that aren't fortunate to live in a state with Western US big game recourses and opportunity!
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Jims, you talk out both sides of your mouth. What is Colorado NR tag allocation for Sheep, Moose, and Mt. Goat?
 
It will be great for Wyoming's youth and I'm sorry but Colorado should worry about Colorado's youth.
 
I agree 100% that Wyo is falling in line with other states for Big 5 quotas. Wyo is one of the first states in the country to be bold enough to bait and switch systems that totally screws nonres that have devoted years to a draw program that generates reliable funding and $ to the WG&F program.

Wouldn't all of you agree that with 90/10 for the big 5 that the WG&F will have to make up for this license and pref pt revenue loss somewhere else? This consistent and reliable revenue will be lost forever!

Wouldn't all of you agree that 90/10 screws nonres that have applied for years and years while paying high pref pt fees each year with thoughts that those with close to max pts have a guarantee chance to draw a tag if they continued applying?

Wouldn't all of you agree that nonres who have applied for Wyo nonres sheep for 15 or 16 years are screwed and will now likely never draw a sheep tag in their lifetime with 90/10 and pref pts?

Wouldn't all of you agree that the current pref pt system for Big 5 is nearly meaningless for nonres that have fewer than the required max pts to draw Big 5 species tags since there may only be 1 random sheep tag available?

Why would nonres fathers apply their son's when youth have virtually 0 chance to draw and it costs $150 to apply each year for nonres sheep and another $150 to apply for moose?

Wouldn't all of you agree that it doesn't make sense for young nonres hunters to apply for Wyo sheep and moose tags and may never have a chance to draw these species with 90/10 and the current pref pt system in Wyo in their lifetimes?

Wouldn't all of you agree that any type of bonus pt system for big 5 species will screw Wyo res that have close to max pts required to draw those tags?

Wouldn't all of you agree that draw odds for Wyo res isn't going to statistically change with 90/10. Youth starting out likely will have 0 chance to draw these tags in their lifetimes with the pref pt system.

Wouldn't all of you agree that 90/10 or 90/5/5 is a real possibility for deer, elk, and antelope in Wyo?

Wouldn't all of you agree that with outfitter set asides and the current landowner tag system that DIY/OYO hunters get screwed? With 90/10 or 90/5/5 for e/d/a the DIY/OYO tag quotas will actually be sliced even less than 10 or 5% since landowners already take tags off the top of the pile before the draw.

Wouldn't all of you agree that with outfitter plus landowner set asides that the % of tags issued to public DIY/OYO hunters could potentially be the lowest % offered in the entire Western US?

Wouldn't all of you also agree that having set aside outfitter and landowner tags is lost opportunity for every nonres DIY/OYO nonres hunter....especially nonres youth just starting out applying?

Wouldn't all of you agree that with 90/10 or 90/5/5 it will be lost opportunity for nonres youth living in all states scattered across the US that don't have these big game species present in their own states?

Good point in the post above! Wouldn't all of you agree that the guide in wilderness rule benefits outfitters and screws DIY/OYO hunters in Wyo?

Except for a few totally ignorant folks, I'm certain every Wyo resident would say yes to every one of these questions!
 
jims said:
I agree 100% that Wyo is falling in line with other states for Big 5 quotas. Wyo is one of the first states in the country to be bold enough to bait and switch systems that totally screws nonres that have devoted years to a draw program that generates reliable funding and $ to the WG&F program.

Wouldn't all of you agree that with 90/10 for the big 5 that the WG&F will have to make up for this license and pref pt revenue loss somewhere else? This consistent and reliable revenue will be lost forever!

Wouldn't all of you agree that 90/10 screws nonres that have applied for years and years while paying high pref pt fees each year with thoughts that those with close to max pts have a guarantee chance to draw a tag if they continued applying?

Wouldn't all of you agree that nonres who have applied for Wyo nonres sheep for 15 or 16 years are screwed and will now likely never draw a sheep tag in their lifetime with 90/10 and pref pts?

Wouldn't all of you agree that the current pref pt system for Big 5 is nearly meaningless for nonres that have fewer than the required max pts to draw Big 5 species tags since there may only be 1 random sheep tag available?

Why would nonres fathers apply their son's when youth have virtually 0 chance to draw and it costs $150 to apply each year for nonres sheep and another $150 to apply for moose?

Wouldn't all of you agree that it doesn't make sense for young nonres hunters to apply for Wyo sheep and moose tags and may never have a chance to draw these species with 90/10 and the current pref pt system in Wyo in their lifetimes?

Wouldn't all of you agree that any type of bonus pt system for big 5 species will screw Wyo res that have close to max pts required to draw those tags?

Wouldn't all of you agree that draw odds for Wyo res isn't going to statistically change with 90/10. Youth starting out likely will have 0 chance to draw these tags in their lifetimes with the pref pt system.

Wouldn't all of you agree that 90/10 or 90/5/5 is a real possibility for deer, elk, and antelope in Wyo?

Wouldn't all of you agree that with outfitter set asides and the current landowner tag system that DIY/OYO hunters get screwed? With 90/10 or 90/5/5 for e/d/a the DIY/OYO tag quotas will actually be sliced even less than 10 or 5% since landowners already take tags off the top of the pile before the draw.

Wouldn't all of you agree that with outfitter plus landowner set asides that the % of tags issued to public DIY/OYO hunters could potentially be the lowest % offered in the entire Western US?

Wouldn't all of you also agree that having set aside outfitter and landowner tags is lost opportunity for every nonres DIY/OYO nonres hunter....especially nonres youth just starting out applying?

Wouldn't all of you agree that with 90/10 or 90/5/5 it will be lost opportunity for nonres youth living in all states scattered across the US that don't have these big game species present in their own states?

Good point in the post above! Wouldn't all of you agree that the guide in wilderness rule benefits outfitters and screws DIY/OYO hunters in Wyo?

Except for a few totally ignorant folks, I'm certain every Wyo resident would say yes to every one of these questions!
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Wow! Dude you need to find the place Highfastliar went and move in with him!
 
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Jim's, you're a liar.

Prove your spouting...what states have no big game for resident youth to hunt?

Let's also get one thing straight, the only diy hunter you're worried about is yourself. A distant second is some unsuspecting nr who you can bilk points out of for yourself to use.
 
jims said:
I strongly disagree that it will be a good thing for our younger generation! The doors are closing each year on our Western US hunting heritage for nonres DIY/OYO hunters. If you are a nonres youth that lives in a state across the US that doesn't have antelope, mule deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose, etc your opportunity to hunt these species in your lifetime is slowly fading. Not only with higher nonres application fees but fewer and fewer nonres hunting tags available.

It's extremely sad to see states like Wyo even considering setting aside a chunk of public tags that would be offered to outfitters. I guess if you are fortunate to be a kid growing up with a wealthy father this may be great. I know for me and other father's across the country we can barely afford applying our kids for nonres tags with high application fees that offer single digit draw odds. Obviously youth are the real losers when this happens. So much for father-son hunts as nonres in the Western US!

The opportunity we as nonres DIY/OYO hunters had growing up is fading. It's a really sad day when states like Wyo that have offered such great opportunity to nonres DIY/OYO hunters are suddenly pulling the plug. What's even sadder is that my home state of Colo will likely follow in Wyo's footsteps if this happens.

I really feel sad for young hunters across the United States that aren't fortunate to live in a state with Western US big game recourses and opportunity!
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This is bullsh1t. There are more than enough OTC elk and deer tags for anyone to get out there and hunt almost every year. And there are plenty of antelope draw permits to be had. I'm sorry if you can't draw a <1% tag that lets you shoot a 400" bull or 200" deer. Stop obsessing over "premium" hunts and go hunt.
 
It’s interesting to watch all you long time/active members slander each other and call each other’s liars and mean comments to each other. Forums are to express feelings and thoughts and heaven forbid someone doesn’t see it like you do! Then you can call some guy you’ve never met a looser liar worthless idiot. When in fact if you actually knew the guy he would be your hunting partner and best friend.
 
dvolmer said:
It’s interesting to watch all you long time/active members slander each other and call each other’s liars and mean comments to each other. Forums are to express feelings and thoughts and heaven forbid someone doesn’t see it like you do! Then you can call some guy you’ve never met a looser liar worthless idiot. When in fact if you actually knew the guy he would be your hunting partner and best friend.
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There’s a difference between sharing an opinion and lying.
 
BuzzH said:
Jim's, you're a liar.

Prove your spouting...what states have no big game for resident youth to hunt?

Let's also get one thing straight, the only diy hunter you're worried about is yourself. A distant second is some unsuspecting nr who you can bilk points out of for yourself to use.
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Well……. we’re all liar’s, aren’t we Buzz. So that just makes Jim, and you I are the same in that regard.

I’ve averaged points with Jim, twice. Never been bilked. Far from it. In both cases, Jim made sure I filled my tag before he filled his. The only B & C big game animal I’ve ever taken was on a point averaging hunt, with Jim, and he was with me when I killed it. I had something he had to offer and he had something I had to offer. On our second point sharing hunt, we scouted together on five different weekends, both driving hundreds of miles to get to the unit, from our homes.

Now, having said that, I never knew Jim until I decided to respond to his offer to average points, five years ago here on MM. Since that time Jim and I have spent a lot of time talking hunting and hunting regulations, while hunting together and over email. We certainly don’t agree on every regulation or every cause and effect, but I can honestly say, regardless of whether I agree with his point of view he always has a rational reason for his opinions. I respect him and appreciate his friendship. Clearly, your relationship has been different but just because it’s different doesn’t mean he’s any different than you or I. Like I said, we’re all liars and you can’t convince me Jim is any more or any less worried about himself than you or I are. The very idea seems prosperous.

Regarding his list of “wouldn’t you” in this thread, I don’t agree with all of them and when I get more time I’ll tell him and you and whoever why but he has just as much right to express his opinions as you or I do…….

I’m posting this not attempting to annoy you or piss you off, I’m attempting to let others know that not everything you accuse him of Is entirely factual and it seems to be a deliberate attempt to mislead. So…….. you say he’s a liar and I say, no more or no less than you or I or the rest of us MM eccentrics.

Have a great weekend buzz.
 
2lumpy said:
Well……. we’re all liar’s, aren’t we Buzz. So that just makes Jim, and you I are the same in that regard.

I’ve averaged points with Jim, twice. Never been bilked. Far from it. In both cases, Jim made sure I filled my tag before he filled his. The only B & C big game animal I’ve ever taken was on a point averaging hunt, with Jim, and he was with me when I killed it. I had something he had to offer and he had something I had to offer. On our second point sharing hunt, we scouted together on five different weekends, both driving hundreds of miles to get to the unit, from our homes.

Now, having said that, I never knew Jim until I decided to respond to his offer to average points, five years ago here on MM. Since that time Jim and I have spent a lot of time talking hunting and hunting regulations, while hunting together and over email. We certainly don’t agree on every regulation or every cause and effect, but I can honestly say, regardless of whether I agree with his point of view he always has a rational reason for his opinions. I respect him and appreciate his friendship. Clearly, your relationship has been different but just because it’s different doesn’t mean he’s any different than you or I. Like I said, we’re all liars and you can’t convince me Jim is any more or any less worried about himself than you or I are. The very idea seems prosperous.

Regarding his list of “wouldn’t you” in this thread, I don’t agree with all of them and when I get more time I’ll tell him and you and whoever why but he has just as much right to express his opinions as you or I do…….

I’m posting this not attempting to annoy you or piss you off, I’m attempting to let others know that not everything you accuse him of Is entirely factual and it seems to be a deliberate attempt to mislead. So…….. you say he’s a liar and I say, no more or no less than you or I or the rest of us MM eccentrics.

Have a great weekend buzz.
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Since you're such good friends with Sebastian did he tell you about the time he turned me in for illegal outfitting while I was trying to enjoy a diy hunt with a good friend?

Maybe you should pick your "friends" more carefully.
 
Buzz, it's obvious that you're an internet tough guy that doesn't quite play with a full hand. It's also obvious that the online forums is just a little la la land reason to circle jerk with a few others of your ilk. And........ I wouldn't be shocked to hear one day that someone kicked the every loving **** out of you because of your online antics.
 
Bookhead said:
So you're saying jims is the only reason why you've killed a b&c animal ?
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? Without a deep diver into the definition of the term “the only reason” I’d have to say, yes. But ya have to remember……. I’m a liar……..
 
remmy6.5 said:
Buzz, it's obvious that you're an internet tough guy that doesn't quite play with a full hand. It's also obvious that the online forums is just a little la la land reason to circle jerk with a few others of your ilk. And........ I wouldn't be shocked to hear one day that someone kicked the every loving **** out of you because of your online antics.
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Well, few things are worth fighting over, but wildlife, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, public lands, etc...worth it to me.

Getting pretty old to settle things in the parking lot, but if it happens, wouldn't be the first time.

Usually when some tuffie wants to go that route its because they know they're wrong and have lost the argument. They failed to make their case. It's the last gasp of a desperate loser...who may become an ultimate one.

But, whatever blows your hair back....
 
BuzzH said:
Usually when some tuffie wants to go that route its because they know they're wrong and have lost the argument. They failed to make their case. It's the last gasp of a desperate loser...who may become an ultimate one.
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True statement. Had that happen to me last fall when a ranch manager tried to kick me off legally accessible state land after he pushed the elk off it. He didn't like what I said to him and had no way to answer it!
 
BuzzH said:
Well, few things are worth fighting over, but wildlife, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, public lands, etc...worth it to me.

Getting pretty old to settle things in the parking lot, but if it happens, wouldn't be the first time.

Usually when some tuffie wants to go that route its because they know they're wrong and have lost the argument. They failed to make their case. It's the last gasp of a desperate loser...who may become an ultimate one.

But, whatever blows your hair back....
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There’s other reasons but I certainly agree with you, this lifestyle is one of them, I suppose we pretty much prove that here everyday, amongst ourselves. Don’t you suppose that’s way it gets sassy, on a daily based.

Oh ya……. some say they’re just here for the pleasure they get out of pissing in the soup……… liars.
 
jm77 said:
True statement. Had that happen to me last fall when a ranch manager tried to kick me off legally accessible state land after he pushed the elk off it. He didn't like what I said to him and had no way to answer it!
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I bet I might be able to guess who that was ?
 
jm77 said:
News flash: Pot calls kettle black!
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Yup……. Sometimes I’m the kettle, sometimes I’m the pot.

Sometimes I lie, sometime ya’ll do.

With exception to homer and the Bobcat, I ain’t ever met anybody that’s perfect. ?
 
BuzzH said:
Well, few things are worth fighting over, but wildlife, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, public lands, etc...worth it to me.

Getting pretty old to settle things in the parking lot, but if it happens, wouldn't be the first time.

Usually when some tuffie wants to go that route its because they know they're wrong and have lost the argument. They failed to make their case. It's the last gasp someone
Click to expand...

jm77 said:
True statement. Had that happen to me last fall when a ranch manager tried to kick me off legally accessible state land after he pushed the elk off it. He didn't like what I said to him and had no way to answer it!
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Most people don't have a problem with being wrong. It's being disrespected that causes the uproar!
 
jm77 said:
True statement. Had that happen to me last fall when a ranch manager tried to kick me off legally accessible state land after he pushed the elk off it. He didn't like what I said to him and had no way to answer it!
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did you play your little internet name calling with this ranch manager? Bet it never happened (or you got the sh!t kicked out of ya)
 
remmy6.5 said:
you pathetic piece of sh!t, is all you can do is hide on the net and constantly cry out LIAR LIAR LIAR to all you disagree with? ! You and your butt buddy buzz oughta take a www holiday because honestly, you 2 jackwads embarrass Wyoming sportsman
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I'm not hiding anywhere. Everyone knows who I am. You're the scaredy cat hiding on the net.
 
jims said:
I strongly disagree that it will be a good thing for our younger generation! The doors are closing each year on our Western US hunting heritage for nonres DIY/OYO hunters. If you are a nonres youth that lives in a state across the US that doesn't have antelope, mule deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose, etc your opportunity to hunt these species in your lifetime is slowly fading. Not only with higher nonres application fees but fewer and fewer nonres hunting tags available.

It's extremely sad to see states like Wyo even considering setting aside a chunk of public tags that would be offered to outfitters. I guess if you are fortunate to be a kid growing up with a wealthy father this may be great. I know for me and other father's across the country we can barely afford applying our kids for nonres tags with high application fees that offer single digit draw odds. Obviously youth are the real losers when this happens. So much for father-son hunts as nonres in the Western US!

The opportunity we as nonres DIY/OYO hunters had growing up is fading. It's a really sad day when states like Wyo that have offered such great opportunity to nonres DIY/OYO hunters are suddenly pulling the plug. What's even sadder is that my home state of Colo will likely follow in Wyo's footsteps if this happens.

I really feel sad for young hunters across the United States that aren't fortunate to live in a state with Western US big game recourses and opportunity!
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Be honest with yourself. Is ANYTHING in this world the same as it was 25 years ago? The answer to that is no. The world evolves, things change. It’s not always for the better, but it is inevitable. The “grab and go” of Western Hunting is over with, but there will never not be opportunities for people who are willing to roll with the punches and figure out a way.
 
2Lumpy, thanks for the kind words! As you well know, no one can take away the fantastic times we shared together on our 2 hunts together. The numerous scouting trips we shared were just as exciting as the actual hunts! To top it all off, the pronghorn you harvested was a buck of a lifetime! I bet he looks amazing on your wall....congrats!

Buzz, as I've told you numerous times I had NOTHING to do with turning you in for illegal outfitting! I have no idea who did that. You obviously don't have many fans on this or any hunting website and there are lots of other candidates that may have done this? Once again, I DIDN'T RAT ON YOU!

It's obvious that there are only a few Western States that offer big game hunting for the Big 5 species. What is sad is that Wyo more or less closed the door on big 5 species for nonres youth to ever have the chance to draw those species with the current pref pt system.

How many states across the US don't offer hunting for sheep, goat, moose, elk, mule deer, and antelope. Wyo, Colo, Mt, UT, NV, WA, OR, NM, AZ, Alaska, SD, and ID are the only states that have most of these species. Yes I know there are a few limited exceptions but that's basically only 12 states out of 50 that offer most of these species to their residents.

Nonres youth that live in 71% of the other states across the country are pretty well screwed since they don't have most if not all of these big game species available. Similar to Wyo the doors are closing for youth across the country to hunt these big game species. As I've been saying all along, our hunting heritage across the US is dramatically changing with the loss of interest from our youth.

Everyone would agree that nonres youth opportunity for limited tags is currently one of the best in the country in both Colo and Wyo for elk, deer, and antelope. With changing times I really believe that is something to stand up and be proud of!

Everyone should also agree that with 90/10 or 90/5/5 for e/d/a that opportunity for nonres youth will dramatically decline. As I've been saying all along, if this happens in Wyo, Colo is bound to follow suite. I don't know about you but it's tough for me to see this opportunity slip away!
 
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jims said:
2Lumpy, thanks for the kind words! As you well know, no one can take away the fantastic times we shared together on our 2 hunts together. The numerous scouting trips we shared were as exciting as the actual hunts! To top it all off, the pronghorn you harvested was a buck of a lifetime!

Buzz, as I've told you numerous times I had NOTHING to do with turning you in for illegal outfitting! I have no idea who did that. You obviously don't have many fans on this or any hunting website and there are lots of other candidates that may have done this? Once again, I DIDN'T RAT ON YOU!

It's pretty obvious that there are only a few Western States that offer big game hunting for the Big 5 species. Wyo more or less closed the doors on big 5 species for nonres youth to ever have the chance to draw those species.

How many states across the US don't offer hunting for sheep, goat, moose, elk, mule deer, and antelope. Wyo, Colo, Mt, UT, NV, WA, OR, NM, AZ, Alaska, and ID are the only states that have most of those species. Yes I know there are a few highly limited exceptions to this but that's basically only 11 states out of 50 that offer these species to their residents.

Nonres youth that live in 39 states across the country are pretty well screwed since they don't have most of these big game species available. Similar to Wyo the doors are closing for youth across the country to hunt these big game species.
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How ridiculous Jim. Youth have as good a chance in Wyoming as anywhere, especially when they change to bonus point. Did you hear the Governor signed it into law?
 
jims said:
2Lumpy, thanks for the kind words! As you well know, no one can take away the fantastic times we shared together on our 2 hunts together. The numerous scouting trips we shared were as exciting as the actual hunts! To top it all off, the pronghorn you harvested was a buck of a lifetime!

Buzz, as I've told you numerous times I had NOTHING to do with turning you in for illegal outfitting! I have no idea who did that. You obviously don't have many fans on this or any hunting website and there are lots of other candidates that may have done this? Once again, I DIDN'T RAT ON YOU!

It's pretty obvious that there are only a few Western States that offer big game hunting for the Big 5 species. Wyo more or less closed the doors on big 5 species for nonres youth to ever have the chance to draw those species.

How many states across the US don't offer hunting for sheep, goat, moose, elk, mule deer, and antelope. Wyo, Colo, Mt, UT, NV, WA, OR, NM, AZ, Alaska, and ID are the only states that have most of those species. Yes I know there are a few highly limited exceptions to this but that's basically only 11 states out of 50 that offer these species to their residents.

Nonres youth that live in 39 states across the country are pretty well screwed since they don't have most of these big game species available. Similar to Wyo the doors are closing for youth across the country to hunt these big game species.
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It was you that turned me in Sebastian, admit it and move on. I have all the proof...and I'll post it if you want.

North Dakota issues more moose tags than Wyoming and every tag goes to north Dakota residents. New Hampshire and Maine have a bunch of moose tags too.

There's more opportunities for youth now than in the history of hunting. Early waterfowl seasons, early and extended big game seasons, multiple your tags, youth only special draws for everything from elk to sheep. Youth allowed to shoot cows and does on antlered and general tags in most western states. Youth can also hunt at a much younger age than when I started...the list goes on and on and on.

You're full of crap...there's never been a better time to be a youth hunter...and that's a fact. My 2 nephews have both shot way more game than I had at their age.

Sell crazy somewhere else...
.
 
Buzz, please publish your accusations and proof that I reported you on another post. Again, I didn't report you for illegal activity! I asked a couple questions on another website and that's as far as I went with it. You have a long list of Buzz-haters on the web that could have done this. Again, I DIDN"T RAT ON YOU and have no idea who did!
 
remmy6.5 said:
you pathetic piece of sh!t, is all you can do is hide on the net and constantly cry out LIAR LIAR LIAR to all you disagree with? ! You and your butt buddy buzz oughta take a www holiday because honestly, you 2 jackwads embarrass Wyoming sportsman
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Woooohohoh ? triggered!!!
 
remmy6.5 said:
did you play your little internet name calling with this ranch manager? Bet it never happened (or you got the sh!t kicked out of ya)
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I bet it did happen jeff isn't scared to line a blowhard out. And that's exactly what that land manager is if it's who I'm thinking of
 
… you know Jims has a point… let’s push for 90/5/5 (5% NR youth) for all species… so WY can stand proud, offering NR youth some of the best opportunity of any western state.
 
I think all of us would rather see those tags go to youth rather than outfitters. Possibly take another 5% off the top of res tags for Wyo res youth to apply for! Sounds great to me!
 
jims said:
I think all of us would rather see those tags go to youth rather than outfitters. Possibly take another 5% off the top of res tags for Wyo res youth to apply for! Sounds great to me!
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Let's take 5% of the nr tags and give them to resident and nr youth.
 
BuzzH said:
It was you that turned me in Sebastian, admit it and move on. I have all the proof...and I'll post it if you want.
.
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Turned you in? Interesting choice of words. Sounds like something a guilty person would say. An innocent person would say “falsely accused me”. So were you guilty?
 
SS, I knew you and/or JM77 would come to Buzz’ rescue. You guys suck him off any chance you get. Three of the biggest fools on MM.
 
Sierra said:
Turned you in? Interesting choice of words. Sounds like something a guilty person would say. An innocent person would say “falsely accused me”. So were you guilty?
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Yeah, I took a donut and a smoked salmon strip from Randy Newberg as compensation when we hunted in Wyoming together.

But maybe it was more just a trade since he bummed a cup of the best fu$_ing coffee in Wyoming off me.

Sebastian thought that was illegal outfitting.

It was a compelling case.
 
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jims said:
Buzz, please publish your accusations and proof that I reported you on another post. Again, I didn't report you for illegal activity! I asked a couple questions on another website and that's as far as I went with it. You have a long list of Buzz-haters on the web that could have done this. Again, I DIDN"T RAT ON YOU and have no idea who did!
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Post it up Buzz.
 
Sierra said:
SS, I knew you and/or JM77 would come to Buzz’ rescue. You guys suck him off any chance you get. Three of the biggest fools on MM.
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This is coming from the guy that 80% of his posts have the word “buzz” in them. I think your fascination with Buzz is played out like a girl who acts like she hates the boy but she really likes him. You’re the girl and you’re not fooling anyone…
 
jims said:
I agree 100% that Wyo is falling in line with other states for Big 5 quotas. Wyo is one of the first states in the country to be bold enough to bait and switch systems that totally screws nonres that have devoted years to a draw program that generates reliable funding and $ to the WG&F program.

Wouldn't all of you agree that with 90/10 for the big 5 that the WG&F will have to make up for this license and pref pt revenue loss somewhere else? This consistent and reliable revenue will be lost forever!

Wouldn't all of you agree that 90/10 screws nonres that have applied for years and years while paying high pref pt fees each year with thoughts that those with close to max pts have a guarantee chance to draw a tag if they continued applying?

Wouldn't all of you agree that nonres who have applied for Wyo nonres sheep for 15 or 16 years are screwed and will now likely never draw a sheep tag in their lifetime with 90/10 and pref pts?

Wouldn't all of you agree that the current pref pt system for Big 5 is nearly meaningless for nonres that have fewer than the required max pts to draw Big 5 species tags since there may only be 1 random sheep tag available?

Why would nonres fathers apply their son's when youth have virtually 0 chance to draw and it costs $150 to apply each year for nonres sheep and another $150 to apply for moose?

Wouldn't all of you agree that it doesn't make sense for young nonres hunters to apply for Wyo sheep and moose tags and may never have a chance to draw these species with 90/10 and the current pref pt system in Wyo in their lifetimes?

Wouldn't all of you agree that any type of bonus pt system for big 5 species will screw Wyo res that have close to max pts required to draw those tags?

Wouldn't all of you agree that draw odds for Wyo res isn't going to statistically change with 90/10. Youth starting out likely will have 0 chance to draw these tags in their lifetimes with the pref pt system.

Wouldn't all of you agree that 90/10 or 90/5/5 is a real possibility for deer, elk, and antelope in Wyo?

Wouldn't all of you agree that with outfitter set asides and the current landowner tag system that DIY/OYO hunters get screwed? With 90/10 or 90/5/5 for e/d/a the DIY/OYO tag quotas will actually be sliced even less than 10 or 5% since landowners already take tags off the top of the pile before the draw.

Wouldn't all of you agree that with outfitter plus landowner set asides that the % of tags issued to public DIY/OYO hunters could potentially be the lowest % offered in the entire Western US?

Wouldn't all of you also agree that having set aside outfitter and landowner tags is lost opportunity for every nonres DIY/OYO nonres hunter....especially nonres youth just starting out applying?

Wouldn't all of you agree that with 90/10 or 90/5/5 it will be lost opportunity for nonres youth living in all states scattered across the US that don't have these big game species present in their own states?

Good point in the post above! Wouldn't all of you agree that the guide in wilderness rule benefits outfitters and screws DIY/OYO hunters in Wyo?

Except for a few totally ignorant folks, I'm certain every Wyo resident would say yes to every one of these questions!
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I have agreed with everything you have been posting. unfortunately the few that don't are the ones on here posting. Sad situation for many with whats happening all across the west.
 
Buzz, buzz, buzz.....good gawd man, ya oughta' be sick of yourself by now. Internet legend, Game and Fish azz kisser, www tough guy, a wingman called jm77, so 'pwoud' to be a acquaintance of Randy Newberg. How many hours of your life have you burned on the 'net? The cause of the problem is probably this: an ugly wife. What else can explain your sick obsession of the intranets? I kind of feel for your wife, maybe she should explore options
 
remmy6.5 said:
Buzz, buzz, buzz.....good gawd man, ya oughta' be sick of yourself by now. Internet legend, Game and Fish azz kisser, www tough guy, a wingman called jm77, so 'pwoud' to be a acquaintance of Randy Newberg. How many hours of your life have you burned on the 'net? The cause of the problem is probably this: an ugly wife. What else can explain your sick obsession of the intranets? I kind of feel for your wife, maybe she should explore options
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Why don't you go crawl back in the hole you came out of trespasser. You're just like @Sierra you project who you really are by trying to dump it on someone else. He fantasizes about men and you're the keyboard warrior hiding who he is!
 
remmy6.5 said:
Buzz, buzz, buzz.....good gawd man, ya oughta' be sick of yourself by now. Internet legend, Game and Fish azz kisser, www tough guy, a wingman called jm77, so 'pwoud' to be a acquaintance of Randy Newberg. How many hours of your life have you burned on the 'net? The cause of the problem is probably this: an ugly wife. What else can explain your sick obsession of the intranets? I kind of feel for your wife, maybe she should explore options
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Real classy. What a f’ing piece of sh!t you are.
 
Has this thread really gotten to calling people liars, gay, or saying they have an ugly wife?

Good hell, Wyoming's not putting on it's best face right now.
 
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