Found Dead Muley? (Cougar)

B

Bucky

Guest
I've been hunting in N.M. Unit 37 for the past six years. Two days ago I stumbled across a nice 4X4 way back in the Tuscon Mountains that was laying dead next to a tree. I found no evidence of it being shot, but it's right ear was torn up (almost off) and it's nose (mouth) was all ripped up. There was cat scatt all around. I'm thinking a Mountain Lion got him? Anybody seen anything like this before? A part of nature but a real shame! I'll post pics when they come back in.
Bucky
 
no tooth or claw marks anywhere on the body? maybe a bullet from a misplaced shot did the damage. a bullet going through all the bone in an animal's face can do a lot of damage. i've seen mule deer, antelope and javelina that have been shot through the face and it ain't pretty.





Krusty.jpg
 
I searched all over and found no bullet holes. The mountain lion scat right next to it indicated that a cat had been there before or after the animal was dead. I was just trying to figure out if the cat might have been the cause of death. Wounded deer usually leave a blood trail, and there was absolutely no trail at all. No pool of blood where it had been laying or anything. And to top it off, the deer, which had probably died the night before, had not been eaten on in any way!
 
Cougars kill by grabbing it's victim by the back of the neck and severing it's spine at the base of the scull.
 
I was witness to an investigation on an elk kill in a national park. It was a suspected poaching close to a road. There were pug marks nearby. No bullet holes to be found and no evidence of kill until the hide was skinned back. Under the hide it was clear to see it was a Lion kill by the bruising and marks on the flesh. Without skinning it you would have never guessed it was a lion kill.
 
I forgot to mention, yes everything we found was on the neck. There were no puncture marks through the hide though. Just massive amounts of pressure.
 
I have an eastman's video that shows a cougar killing a nice buck by grabbing it from the front of the nose. I think the cougar just happened to grab it there and couldn't re-position to the neck. Anyway, it hung on, biting down on the snout, until it essentially suffocated the buck.

I think the video is Eastman's High and Low in Mule Deer Country. Pretty interesting.
 
I remember being at the ISE show in Salt lake last year and seeing a Video of a Cougar and a 4X4 Mule deer going at it. The Cougar had the Deer by the muzzle and was sufficating it like the lion's in africa do to there prey. The video was at the Eastmans booth and it was about a 3 minute segment.



Tallbuck1

One Bad Day Hunting
is better than a good day
at WORK!
 
2 lion kills I"ve seen in TX have both been covered up with leaves/brush. Down here I"d always heard that usually happened to conceal the kill till they came back to snack.

But from the wound evidence I think you are right its a cat.

Jeff
 
I have found one dead mountain goat and one mule deer. Both had also been to some extent covered with the surrounding grass,twigs and leaf. I know most will disagree but cougars kill for sport and I don't know if it was a recreational kill if the cat would bother to cover it. Just a guess.

also ~Jeff~
 
i am pretty sure a lion doesnt kill for fun. a lion eats when it is hungry, and there goal is to expended as little energy as possible. killing takes energy no matter what, so i doubt they do it for fun
casey
 
Jeff

I suspect you are right in killing for sport at times. After all they are a big kitty, and we've all seen kitties kill and play with their prey.

I also suspect that they kill for food quite a bit though too.

This Jeff
 
I've been around lions before they do kill for sport and so do coyotes. Mountain lions kill in two ways one by placing its mouth over the snout of the animal and by severing the skull form the spin. you could usually tell a bear kill becouse a bear will grab the animal by the neck and ack the fur back before eating. There was a rancher here in wyoming that we used to preadator hunt for before he sold his ranch and died in a helicopter crash, that asked us to shoot some coyotes righ next to his house becouse he was loseing 30 -40 head of sheep a night. we went in howling and tried calling when my cousin came upon the lion on a fresh killed deer at 13 feet and the lion screemed and was in the crouched position and he shot and killed the cat. then he got in some trouble but the ranchers in the area was relly happy with him.

moseley
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-04 AT 01:48PM (MST)[p]I agree with you, Andy. It was a Chupacabra (aka Goat Sucker). I've been hunting those for years. It will look sweet mounted next to my bigfoot :D.
 
fish and game bio dude talked once about a big tom they had to put down because he was killing just to kill!!
so yes they will kill for sport!!!
rackmaster
 
I've got the pics saved on my desktop, if someone will be kind enough to explain how to post them!
Bucky
 
Predators kill to eat but that prey drive will take over often times when opportunity arises . How many of us have seen a cat go out and kill a mouse bird ect and play with it and then go do another without ever eating it .
I hate to admit this cause it just gives one more incentive for those of you that would like to eradicate the cats .
Anyhow they are opportunist and will take advantage sometimes never to eat on the prey but I think it happens less than one might think.
 
Anybody ever see the move ghost in the darkness? Those were african lions, not mountain lions(nontheless part of the cat family), but it was based on a true story. They supposedly killed over 100 people before they were finally killed. I don't know if it's true or not but it's one bad ass movie either way.
 
I have seen a couple fresh kills in the past.....one for sure was a lion since we seen the SOB on the damn thing then ran off.....but when we got up on the kill it was covered and looked like it had been crapped on or something. The other was more than likely either natural cause or bear....there was bear sign all around it and it was also covered up to an extent.
I dont care if there are seasons or not though....if a lion is within distance and I think it might do some damage...the SOB is goin down!
YB
 
Again, I'd like to post the pictures if somebody can tell me how to do it. The pics are on my desktop.
Thanks,
Bucky
 
Crazyaboutcoues,

I tried to send you the pics, but it got sent back saying the address had permanent fatal errors.
 
I understand an important part of a cougers diet on downed deer and other animals is the lips nose and tongue of its prey,these are filled with protein.If you find a skull with its nose bones chewed or broken off very jagged looking its probaly a lion kill. As per your pics,that looks very different, might of died from some unkwown reason and other animals as raptors,vermin or of the likes chowed dowd a litte. Send me your email and I will send you pics of a skull I found that shows evidence of a lion kill and feast.
 
Actually, there was very "fresh" lion scat all around. If you look closely at the neck, there was fresh "scat" all over it.
Bucky
 
Very interesting pictures. Wonder how the inside lookes, right under the hide. Wonder if parasites or something killed it?

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Yes, The Ghost and the Darkness is based on a true story by Col. Patterson (played by Val Kilmer) The two lions are mounted and on display at a museum (Chicago I believe). As I understand it, they are on the small side and have a genetic mutation located in the Tsavo region which makes them maneless and they don't look like the (MGM) lions in the movie. This was not an isolated incidence in Africa, just a well publicized one.
 
I don't know if this was mentioned in the posts above as I have not read them all but a mountain lion will kill a deer by giving it the kiss of death. What I mean by this is that they cover the bucks mouth with thier mouth to suffocate it. It looks like the cat is trying to give the deer mouth to mouth but with the opposite effect. I have actually seen this on video and I couldn't believe it. I think a lion has a hard time taking a buck down any other way if the buck is healthy. That is one cool thing to run across in the woods.
 
Dont rule out the possibility that it may have been a rabbit, chipmunk or a pika! They can be vicious with those sharp teefies! Did you ever see thae rabbit in the Holy Grail? Look what that one did to Aurthurs Knights. That rabbit was dynamite!
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Eric
 
Typicaly A lion stikes form the rear. Were a bear more
so atacts from the front. I'm not sure if u have Bears
there, but thats what i've seen in some off the kills.
I've ran bears with my dog off of.
Sage
 
Sure, there were bears in the area. But it was definetly Cougar scat I found next to the deer.
Bucky
 
the kiss of death? where the hell did you hear that? i've killed a buncha lions and been on countless kills. never saw or heard that one. most of the time a lion will land on a deer's back and bite it in the neck or the back of the head and kill it. sometimes they'll get a good grip on their head and break their neck. it'd take an hour to suffocate a deer and the lion would get the hell kicked out of it. whoever told you the kiss of death deal us fulla bs. lions kill quick. sometimes if they can't get a good hold on something they'll get on their back and tear the guts open with their thumb claws and ride em down. most of the time tho, it's over in seconds. this buck looks to me like he got his neck broke. and you happened along at the right time and spooked off the cat. he was probably watching you the whole time.
 
First of all, I did not say anything about a "kiss of death". Some one else wrote that on this forum. I just posted the pics and asked what people thought. I thought it was rather interesting, since there was no evidence of it being shot. Nevertheless, I did find a web-site that says Cougars have been known to grab the animal by the muzzle or head. I really don't think the cougar was still in the area, as the deer was rather stiff and probably about a day old! (By the way, in many cougar kills, they don't even eat what they killed)
Bucky
 
Hey Bucky!

Who would have ever thunk this post would have gotten kicked around for this long! I would think that even though cougars traditonally kill from attacking the neck it don't mean it is always gonna go that way. The funny thing in your case is even with all the scat and damage and so forth and so on, We don't know that the dam deer didn't just up and die of some natural cause. All that sign could have come after the fact.. But it has been interesting viewing everyones input here. I was just thinking ... that damed attack mule that was killing cougars mighty have done in that deer :)

~Jeff~
 
Cougars are ocationaly opertunistick feeder
If it was easy, I've seen them run bears off kills
sage
 

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