Gates

[202typical]

I think this is a good change. I am excited to see what is going to happen given Gates' position and the Baker commission. I am confident these men will find a solution. The discouraging part is the Dems now want to investigate Gate's involvment with Iran Contra. Can you believe this. Unreal.
The thing that does have me wondering is why is bush going to all these retreads from his fathers admin and Reagans admin. Surely there has got to be some of Americas younger best and brightest that could perform these functions.........right? Maybe younger is not the proper term but you get my drift.

 

[RELH]

I think Bush is looking for someone that has more experience then untested youthful ideas. He may be on the right track. Gate's experience as the head of the CIA may give him a edge on the ideas of what it will take to win in Iraq by getting the Iraq goverment to take the lead in their fight for freedom.
If this can be done, it will lead to troop redrawals and bringing home our main fighting forces. what will be left behind will be spec ops troops to continue the training-advising, and keeping a finger on the pulse of what is going on there.
We failed in vietnam because we tried to fight a conventional war with insurgents that recuited the local population for their side, and we were supporting a corrupt S. Vietnam goverment that could not get their own people to support them because of the corruption.
At about the same time, the British in Malaysia fought the commie insurgents by using spec ops troops and keeping the locals on their side as "eyes & ears" and won the war.
This may be what we need in Iraq to win, but it will take a honest strong goverment that the majority of the people in Iraq will be willing to support in order to win in the long haul.
Our biggest acheivements in Vietnam was converting the highland mongs to our side and they helped to kick the crap out of the viet cong on their own turf. Yet the Mongs hated the Vietnamese goverment but was willing to fight for us and to keep their home ground free of insurgents. This was run by special forces and overseen by the CIA. This may be a solution in Iraq that will help win and get most of our front line troops home.
The straight leg generals in vietnam were against the use of special forces and their recuitment program and felt that the fighting could be won by conventional troops and they lost the war for several reasons. This could be a problem also in Iraq and it may take a Sec. of Defense that knows about unconventional war to push this agenda to the joint chiefs of staff in order to free up our troops and win in Iraq at the same time.
RELH

 

[Cornhusker]

I'm sure Gates will be able to solve 1000 years of tribal animosity and 800 year of religious fighting between the shia and sunni's and then we will be withdraw our boys. They will of course develop a fair responsible democratic government with a tall man with a beard and a stove top hat giving empasioned speeches. Then the entire story will be published by the Grimm's fairytale boys.

The biggest achievement in Vietnam was getting the heck out of their before we lost more Americans for nothing. We could have won Vietnam if we were willing to kill 10's of thousands of people and the same holds true in Iraq, we won't do it.

 

[RELH]

Cornhusker;

The reason you mentioned was one of the primary causes we lost Vietnam. We tried to fight a conventional war with our hands tied behind our back. Any one knows if you fight a conventional war, you must go in and totally destroy your opponent, which means non combatants will be killed.
At first we fought a conventional war and kicked the crap out of Sadaams army, but now it has turned to a un-conventional war where the enemy is hiding in with the local population and we are not willing to kill everyone to get to the enemy. so the only course we have is cut and run, or fight them in a un-conventional way that they are using themselfs. The CIA and spec ops teams have alot of experience doing this.
We must have the Iraq goverment with us on this and the locals must be motivated enought to fight. If we get this, we can win, if we do not get it, we must decide to get out and let them fend for themselfs, which means Iran will be running things.

RELH

 

[Cornhusker]

I understand what you're saying and I agree that the guys that we have trained for this are the best in the world. I think the jealousy and hatred in this part of the world are going to make it impossible to get reliable help from the locals which is needed for this to work. I think their alliances will shift like the sand in the desert winds. I really hope it works and I certainly know very little about warfare strategies but I do understand a little on human nature and the history of this part of the world. I really hope I'm wrong and you are right and that it works to start pulling the troops out. If you think about this situation it isn't a lot different than the the British found theirselves in in Northern Ireland. Very difficult to put the fire of hatred out when it burns that hotly and people are willing to give their lives to destroy you.

 

[RELH]

you have a valid point, but we need not convert a majority of the population, just a portion of it to be the eyes and ears. The Iraq goverment will also have to become a strong force and take the lead and try to keep the corruption out to keep the support of their own people sunni and shilte.
I guess it will boil down to just how much they want freedom or living under tyrants that will keep them inline at the point of a gun. Their radical clergy will be a major problem, just a bunch of so called religeous nuts that seeks power instead of following their own koran.
have you noticed that the fires in Ireland are not burning that hot lately.

RELH

 

[Cornhusker]

Time will tell. Yes Northern Ireland has calmed down but it took 30 years I'm not sure the American public is that patient. Also the violence and unrest there was a fraction of what we are experiencing in Iraq. I hope you are right.