GM should be banned

hossblur

Long Time Member
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Trump didn't invoke defense act, hoping industry would step up.

Many did.

But GM, decided to 'negotiate".

After tge taxpayers of this country bailed their sorry asses out of the last recession, they had enough balks to not jump in?

Props to Tesla and Ford.
 
Mary, the CEO of GMC, is a bona fide POTUS hater. Her TDS is very evident. Trump just minimized her.
 
I've always been a Ford guy anyway, but are you guys sure you want the federal government ordering businesses around under the premise of Covid-19? I'm thinking this isn't quite akin to a WWII.

What if Obama started ordering gun manufacturers to start making parts to measure climate change, would you be okay with that?
 
Let me start by saying I am A trump supporter.

but 1st to the people who think GM should just agree to do whatever is being asked have probably never been in a manufacturing environment and have never been around for a new product start up. You don’t just walk in press a button and the machine starts making a totally different product without any issues this kinda thing takes time. Believe me I know I’ve worked in manufacturing and Line start ups for 11 years. That’s just not how this works. Add in the fact that you are being asked to make medical devices and the risk for lawsuit if you make a defective product goes up. This isn’t as simple as it’s made to sound that needs to be understood. There’s a lot of complexities that go into something like this

2nd I gotta agree with Grizz on this one idk how I feel about government telling a private business this is what your doing. Along with that there’s alot
More that goes into the defense act than just hey your gonna make this.
 
I don't like it. The whole camel has been inside the tent for a while though in terms of the incestuous relationship between government and many businesses. I suppose we could add labor to that list and go on and on.
 
I've always been a Ford guy anyway, but are you guys sure you want the federal government ordering businesses around under the premise of Covid-19? I'm thinking this isn't quite akin to a WWII.

What if Obama started ordering gun manufacturers to start making parts to measure climate change, would you be okay with that?

Nope. I think Trump held off as long as he could. But GM especially should have answered the call.

Trump Has said for weeks it was leverage.

I learned long ago never enter negotiations if you have zero chance of winning.

Now GM gets to get crushed daily at press conferences.

Im betting GM will be getting a new CEO soon
 
I don't like it. The whole camel has been inside the tent for a while though in terms of the incestuous relationship between government and many businesses. I suppose we could add labor to that list and go on and on.


I'd agree had GM not taken government cheese.

GM had no problem staying "private" when they needed something
 
Let me start by saying I am A trump supporter.

but 1st to the people who think GM should just agree to do whatever is being asked have probably never been in a manufacturing environment and have never been around for a new product start up. You don’t just walk in press a button and the machine starts making a totally different product without any issues this kinda thing takes time. Believe me I know I’ve worked in manufacturing and Line start ups for 11 years. That’s just not how this works. Add in the fact that you are being asked to make medical devices and the risk for lawsuit if you make a defective product goes up. This isn’t as simple as it’s made to sound that needs to be understood. There’s a lot of complexities that go into something like this

2nd I gotta agree with Grizz on this one idk how I feel about government telling a private business this is what your doing. Along with that there’s alot
More that goes into the defense act than just hey your gonna make this.
When GM was begging us taxpayers for a bailout I guess I missed how concerned they were for their independence. They didnt go bankrupt, bought, and chopped up into pieces because WE saved them.

Short memories i guess?

I feel like Trump held out as long as he could, but in the end, GM had a choice.

As for the lawyers? That's yet another problem we need to address. In fact t hats one of the most important issues we need to address. Or so I think as i read the 4 warning labels on a 5 gallon bucket.
 
it was easier in 1941 for Singer to stop sewing machine production and start up 1911 pistol production.....they had a factory full of metal working machines and skilled craftsmen.....not what we have now.....
 
My personal feelings is that GM has the right to say "NO". On the same token the taxpayers of this country should not have been required to bail their butts out. Should have let them go bankrupt. Starting over may have made for a better company. The main reason Obama and the democrats elected to bail them out was to keep favor with the auto makers union.
RELH
 
Ford was the only one of the Big 3 to not take a bailout and now they're producing face masks and even converted F-150 seat cooling pumps to make new ventilators. They haven't even asked for compensation. Pretty cool.

 
Sounds like Ford has better engineers and technicians to make the swap than GM does and we're not talking about retooling an entire plant either.

A gov't during a time of crisis asking a private business to provide a good is no different than a gov't during a time of crisis to ask a private 18 year old male citizen for service...
 
Sounds like Ford has better engineers and technicians to make the swap than GM does and we're not talking about retooling an entire plant either.

A gov't during a time of crisis asking a private business to provide a good is no different than a gov't during a time of crisis to ask a private 18 year old male citizen for service...
The Selective Service applies to all citizens, not just whichever one Trump decides to publicly humiliate. I'd rather he focus on the positives of those who help than the negatives of those who don't. That's how true leadership works.

Agreed Ford definitely has better engineers though :cool:
 
I feel he should do both and focus on the positive and the negatives and let the people know who has their back and who does not. Might help those negatives turn around and start doing something that is positive for once.
RELH
 
I bet the GM stockholders are wishing Rick Wagner was back in control. Oh, thats right Obama fired his azz when GM received the bailout
 
"Who is your customer?"

Trump isn't GM customer. Congress isn't GM customer.

You and I are. GM has no idea apparently who it's customers are.

When the President calls and ASKS what you can do, while Andrew Cuomo is on every news outlet screaming about HIS FAILURE to do his job, and demanding Trump nationalize, and you somehow think it's negotiation time, you are an idiot.

Especially as you see your competition doing things without being asked. Especially in the midst of an economic depression. And now, you get to have the bully pulpit name you, and your company, daily, while he praises your competition.

No. I'm not for nationalizing industry. And in case you couldn't read, neither was Trump. And had Cuomo done what his own 2015 (Trump wasn't President) public health assessment told him, he wouldn't need to be screaming on TV. But NY was busy policing straws, big gulps, and salt shakers, rather than preparing for public health issues.

Leadership isn't going on your brothers cable show bitching about how the President should fix the problem you created.

Sure hope ford doesn't use the same engineers that built the 6.0, and 6.4 powerstroke to make ventilators.
 
GM seems to end up on the wrong side of public opinion. There is something wrong with their executive leadership if they keep making these kind of mistakes. But then again it must be hard to plan for a drive-by from the Prez.
 
Can you imagine, you are Trump. You aren't a politician, you are a developer.

The Wuhan Virus hits. Here comes 50 governors asking for supplies.

You call in 3m to try to push them, only to be told all they need is the lawyers off their back.

You turn on TV and see Andrew Cuomo whining all over the media about the President's failure to act, while you are looking at a decline to purchase ventilators signed by that same Andrew Cuomo.

Everywhere you look at places, or institutions set up in government to "help" or manage public health, and in every one of them hes seeing LAWYERS, and stupidity.

He's more controlled than i am. I would have pounded Cuomo into the dirt, while drinking a big gulp on TV.

I would have called the GM board members and let them know at 5pm I was going to remind the whole country daily how GM took taxpayer money to save itself, yet now their CEO wants to negotiate. And that from now on all fleet vehicles in the government will be Ford's.

I've sat in zoning meetings, RAC meetings, and school meetings. Can you imagine sitting through everyday when all you want to do is get things done?

Then. Starting to get reports that the models all the "experts" had been using could be wrong by 10fold? After you listened to tgem and drove the country into a ditch?

Hes wayyyyyyy more reserved than me
 
Sure hope ford doesn't use the same engineers that built the 6.0, and 6.4 powerstroke to make ventilators.
That motor was designed by Navistar. After that debacle, Ford designed it's own motor, the 6.7, which has been great.

2020 Chevy - 59 points
2020 Ford - 81.5 points

Haha. It's not even close!

 
That motor was designed by Navistar. After that debacle, Ford designed it's own motor, the 6.7, which has been great.

2020 Chevy - 59 points
2020 Ford - 81.5 points

Haha. It's not even close!



$80k for either. I watch TFL.

Those HD tests were sad.

In a dually, loaded heavy. And the complaints were about ride quality and computer screens.

Reality is, they are going to start putting Allison's behind cummins in Rams.

Everything else is just kissing your sister.

I'll be pretty happy in 2035 when I buy a "clean one owner"
 
Can you imagine, you are Trump. You aren't a politician, you are a developer.

The Wuhan Virus hits. Here comes 50 governors asking for supplies.

You call in 3m to try to push them, only to be told all they need is the lawyers off their back.

You turn on TV and see Andrew Cuomo whining all over the media about the President's failure to act, while you are looking at a decline to purchase ventilators signed by that same Andrew Cuomo.

Everywhere you look at places, or institutions set up in government to "help" or manage public health, and in every one of them hes seeing LAWYERS, and stupidity.

He's more controlled than i am. I would have pounded Cuomo into the dirt, while drinking a big gulp on TV.

I would have called the GM board members and let them know at 5pm I was going to remind the whole country daily how GM took taxpayer money to save itself, yet now their CEO wants to negotiate. And that from now on all fleet vehicles in the government will be Ford's.

I've sat in zoning meetings, RAC meetings, and school meetings. Can you imagine sitting through everyday when all you want to do is get things done?

Then. Starting to get reports that the models all the "experts" had been using could be wrong by 10fold? After you listened to tgem and drove the country into a ditch?

Hes wayyyyyyy more reserved than me
Almost word for word what Obama's cheerleaders and loyalist said back in 2009 with about the resistance to the financial crisis.

Nemont
 
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Dodge (now owned by Fiat) took taxpayer money. Are they helping with masks and ventilators?

Or, maybe it's different since Dodge is an Italian-owned company and not an American car company?

Serious question. Just haven't heard anything about them on this subject.
 
The Selective Service applies to all citizens, not just whichever one Trump decides to publicly humiliate. I'd rather he focus on the positives of those who help than the negatives of those who don't. That's how true leadership works.

Agreed Ford definitely has better engineers though :cool:

Missed the point there grizz. The statement was made about gov't telling a private business what they could and could not do in a time of "crisis".
 
Can you imagine, you are Trump. You aren't a politician, you are a developer.

The Wuhan Virus hits. Here comes 50 governors asking for supplies.

You call in 3m to try to push them, only to be told all they need is the lawyers off their back.

You turn on TV and see Andrew Cuomo whining all over the media about the President's failure to act, while you are looking at a decline to purchase ventilators signed by that same Andrew Cuomo.

Everywhere you look at places, or institutions set up in government to "help" or manage public health, and in every one of them hes seeing LAWYERS, and stupidity.

He's more controlled than i am. I would have pounded Cuomo into the dirt, while drinking a big gulp on TV.

I would have called the GM board members and let them know at 5pm I was going to remind the whole country daily how GM took taxpayer money to save itself, yet now their CEO wants to negotiate. And that from now on all fleet vehicles in the government will be Ford's.

I've sat in zoning meetings, RAC meetings, and school meetings. Can you imagine sitting through everyday when all you want to do is get things done?

Then. Starting to get reports that the models all the "experts" had been using could be wrong by 10fold? After you listened to tgem and drove the country into a ditch?

Hes wayyyyyyy more reserved than me
8 years of sitting thru that bs; only a psychopath could do it.

Hey, you going to euthanize us old guys? Hoss 4 Prez. (y) :oops:
 
Missed the point there grizz. The statement was made about gov't telling a private business what they could and could not do in a time of "crisis".
No I got your point, I think you missed mine, my point is "equal protection" in that the government doesn't pick and choose who signs up for the draft. It applies to everybody.

The danger is when the government wants to single out a company and force them to do one thing when treating them differently from their competition. In that case, the government is picking winners and losers.

Imagine the strategic advantage if the government forced one company to work for them while their competitor was out developing new technology and getting record profit under a government-sanctioned monopoly.

That's the difference in your example of the draft verse Trump singling out individuals for ridicule.

And one man's crisis is another man's hiccup. I'm not quite sure we want to start comparing everything to WWII as I don't think we'll like where that ends up. What's next, the "crisis" of global warming?
 
That's actually not true. Had GM stepped up like the others, invoking the powers act wouldn't have been needed. That act applies the same to all enterprise if they have the necessary tech and skill set when needed. Does not mean I agree gov't should control all aspects of our lives - different topic for a different day.

It being used to single out GM, that's their problem.

And, if an 18 year old male fails to comply with the selective service act, they too are treated discriminatly as well and singled out from the rest...
 
GM burned the US tax payers for 10 billion on an 11 billion dollar loan, then managed to make it look like they paid it back in full.

That is just chump change compared to what they are throwing around right now.

We might all wish we had been done in by the virus when we see the freedoms we might loose from this whole thing.

Hope I am wrong.
 
No I got your point, I think you missed mine, my point is "equal protection" in that the government doesn't pick and choose who signs up for the draft. It applies to everybody.

The danger is when the government wants to single out a company and force them to do one thing when treating them differently from their competition. In that case, the government is picking winners and losers.

Imagine the strategic advantage if the government forced one company to work for them while their competitor was out developing new technology and getting record profit under a government-sanctioned monopoly.

That's the difference in your example of the draft verse Trump singling out individuals for ridicule.

And one man's crisis is another man's hiccup. I'm not quite sure we want to start comparing everything to WWII as I don't think we'll like where that ends up. What's next, the "crisis" of global warming?


Grizz did you miss the government shutting down businesses?

So it's"fair" to shut down businesses but not dictate to some yo male products? For which they will get paid?

The Dodge, Toyota, nissan question is fair.
 
^^^ hoss, I never said it was okay for governments to shut down businesses. I never even said the word "fair" because I think that's a sissy way of saying things. (I never can figure out why Trump always whines about things being NOT FAIR. Man up!)

But even then, it applies to everybody in each industry equally. Said in another way, if they want to shut down McDonald's, they better shut down Wendy's as well. They can't pick and choose which fast food joints make it and which don't.
 
It's amazing to watch the far-right here arguing for more government control of businesses under the guise of a "crisis"

If you don't like GM because they're not looking out for the country and take taxpayer money... then buy Ford. Easy enough.
 
What you are saying is it's ok to shut down buisness via government mandate, but not ok to force them to work?

And YOU BET. GM took my money. They weren't constitutionalists. They willingly took welfare. Trump didn't want to force them.

And they are going to take it again.

But you can't have it both ways. If the government can shutdown a legal private buisness, then they can force one open.

I don't think they should be able to do either. But that genie came out of the bottle a few weeks ago.

Now the government is closing public land, dictating freedom of movement, threatening to cut of power/water.

3 weeks ago I posted about the first quarantine via police in California. You explained how wrong I was then. Now you suddenly discovered government overreach? And it was with GM?
 
So it's"fair" to shut down businesses but not dictate to some yo male products?

hoss, I never said it was okay for governments to shut down businesses.

What you are saying is it's ok to shut down buisness via government mandate, but not ok to force them to work?

You accuse me of saying something I never said. I correct you and restate that I've never said that. And then you say it again. Wow.
 
GM burned the US tax payers for 10 billion on an 11 billion dollar loan, then managed to make it look like they paid it back in full.

That is just chump change compared to what they are throwing around right now.

We might all wish we had been done in by the virus when we see the freedoms we might loose from this whole thing.

Hope I am wrong.

I don't believe we will see lost freedoms after this, however, I do see it as setting a platform for it later on. In the wrong politicians hands, it would very well usher in a period of history not favorable...
 
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My personal feelings is that GM has the right to say "NO". On the same token the taxpayers of this country should not have been required to bail their butts out. Should have let them go bankrupt. Starting over may have made for a better company. The main reason Obama and the democrats elected to bail them out was to keep favor with the auto makers union.
RELH
Not just for the Union but to keep Americans working. GM should be proud and eager to step up and provide help for people in need. I'm tired of the divided country. We need to work together and quit fighting and hating.
I may have COPD starting from damage done working in a chemical plant in the 80s. I hope if I get this and I stand a chance there will be a ventilator available.
I am going to volunteer help at the food bank if they need me as I only have to work 2 days a week for the next weeks or months.
 
You accuse me of saying something I never said. I correct you and restate that I've never said that. And then you say it again. Wow.

It's amazing to watch the far-right here arguing for more government control of businesses under the guise of a "crisis"


Ever notice it's always the "far right"?

It's not the "far right", its people with a memory. We all got told these beautiful stories about how important our huge manufacturing base is. How they were the ones who made the tanks, built the implements that kept us from speaking German. So we had to give them welfare, "they are too big to fail"

Now here it is, time for the "too big to fail" manufacturer to step up and say "thank you" to the Americans who saved them, and instead, they gave us the finger.

The "far right" wasn't screaming about the nationalizing of GM. Andrew Cuomo was. He's pretty far from "right"

This isn't a right or left issue. It's a good corporate behavior issue. The enactment came because GM decided to negotiate on price. Not being forced to work for free, but trying to gouge the taxpayers. And, I haven't read the 800 page stimulus bill, but how much more taxpayer money do you suppose GM will be sucking in from it?

Ive said all along the government overreach was out of control.
 
Diesel soot promotes reduced lung function....just saying.

F'n cabin fever is killing me. Its the weather not the virus. :confused:
 
Let me start by saying I am A trump supporter.

but 1st to the people who think GM should just agree to do whatever is being asked have probably never been in a manufacturing environment and have never been around for a new product start up. You don’t just walk in press a button and the machine starts making a totally different product without any issues this kinda thing takes time. Believe me I know I’ve worked in manufacturing and Line start ups for 11 years. That’s just not how this works. Add in the fact that you are being asked to make medical devices and the risk for lawsuit if you make a defective product goes up. This isn’t as simple as it’s made to sound that needs to be understood. There’s a lot of complexities that go into something like this

2nd I gotta agree with Grizz on this one idk how I feel about government telling a private business this is what your doing. Along with that there’s alot
More that goes into the defense act than just hey your gonna make this.

I agree one hundred percent. We do need to hear GM’s side of the story. It wouldn’t be easy to switch from cars to ventilators. Maybe they are struggling more than they thought with it. And they should be payed good to try and save people doing something they know little about. He definitely overstepped that one. But I’m sure he is stressed as well.
 

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