Good podcast on Utah Mule deer research

So Hossy?

Do Tell Me!

48 F'N Years of PISS POOR DEER Management!

And Still Here We Are!

You Really Think anything is gonna Change anytime Soon?

ANSWERS PLEASE!
 
48 years? I'm guessing you've been looking under the wrong rocks and behind the wrong trees pal!
 
It was interesting in that Robby Denning hosted, it was an hour or so on how to improve deer, and “bucks aren’t biologically important” was what she said.

I read all the armchair biologists posting about tag cuts, buck:doe ratios, 3xor better, and a biologist blows all of it away.

Antler size is based on maternal condition. Her condition is based on food and water.

I think the biologists at DWR are doing some great work.

But then, it goes to SLC, (where the director hangs with WLH), and to the WB(which is controlled by commercial interests), and all that good work gets spun 180, and we end up where we are.

Like it or not, when your state leads the nation in birth rate, it means you destroy a lot of habitat.

How much land could WE have bought for the $20 million we handed PEAY/BENSON?
 
I no longer listen to biologists. Regardless of the state, they all talk to each other, read the same materials and convince themselves that their opinions are the only valid ones. They must be forced to "drink the Kool Aid" when they accept the position.

Habitat is important, and doe condition is also important. But predators are and have been hammering our deer for decades. There are lions, coyotes, bears, eagles, bobcats and more that are constantly working on mule deer. And CWD is also a factor in many areas where I hunt/operate. So are the ever increasing elk herds and the encroachment of whitetails.

I lease lands here in Wyoming that are the same as they were 50 years ago. And yes, I've been around and have been watching that long. The deer herds are maybe 1/4 in numbers as they were. No urban development, no habitat loss. In fact, with the water developments and increased use of pivot irrigation, many places in our area actually have better feed and better water, both key components of habitat. But in some places there are 10% of the deer we had.

The biggest difference is all of the predators. We used to get a bear license for free with an elk license here in Wyoming. Now bears are on strict quotas that are far too low. Lions are far more abundant than they were. There used to be more sheep, which meant more aggressive coyote control. We had 1080, which is banned with reason, but it sure hammered predators. Elk populations have increased 10X. And we are gullible enough to think that habitat and body condition are the keys to mule deer population increases. I'm not buying what the biologists are selling.

Too bad some of the biologists were not around in the 70's or sooner to see what mule deer could be. They might change their tune.......
 
I no longer listen to biologists. Regardless of the state, they all talk to each other, read the same materials and convince themselves that their opinions are the only valid ones. They must be forced to "drink the Kool Aid" when they accept the position.

Habitat is important, and doe condition is also important. But predators are and have been hammering our deer for decades. There are lions, coyotes, bears, eagles, bobcats and more that are constantly working on mule deer. And CWD is also a factor in many areas where I hunt/operate. So are the ever increasing elk herds and the encroachment of whitetails.

I lease lands here in Wyoming that are the same as they were 50 years ago. And yes, I've been around and have been watching that long. The deer herds are maybe 1/4 in numbers as they were. No urban development, no habitat loss. In fact, with the water developments and increased use of pivot irrigation, many places in our area actually have better feed and better water, both key components of habitat. But in some places there are 10% of the deer we had.

The biggest difference is all of the predators. We used to get a bear license for free with an elk license here in Wyoming. Now bears are on strict quotas that are far too low. Lions are far more abundant than they were. There used to be more sheep, which meant more aggressive coyote control. We had 1080, which is banned with reason, but it sure hammered predators. Elk populations have increased 10X. And we are gullible enough to think that habitat and body condition are the keys to mule deer population increases. I'm not buying what the biologists are selling.

Too bad some of the biologists were not around in the 70's or sooner to see what mule deer could be. They might change their tune.......

They talked about predators. She was pro coyote shooting.

Her point was you need to kill predators around fawn drop time, especially coyotes.

She also had some thoughts on the age of forests. With all the fire suppression, all the plants and shrubs are the same age class, meaning their nutritional value is diminished across the landscape.

If the prescription to more deer is no elk, and a massive whiteout of all predators, then the mule deer is doomed, neither will ever happen again.
 
Nobody said no elk. Nobody said a whiteout of all predators. It's a system that's imbalanced toward predators and larger ungulates right now.

Habitat is critical; agreed. The pine beetles have killed hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of acres of stage 5 succession conifers in the last 15 years. It has set the stages of succession back to early annuals and perennials. Good for deer.

Check the data. More fires now than ever. Cheatgrass is a result and is a huge problem. If your biologist is endorsing wildfire, again that's ill advised. Ask Nevada how they like the millions of acres that have burnt there. Better yet, go take a look north of Elko and say WOW! what a wreck.

I'm not inclined to argue. If you want to drink that Kool Aid help yourself. But there are other valid thoughts that are not in agreement with those biologists. I have a pretty solid background in both education and experience in wildlife biology and I tend to disagree more often than I agree with them on both management of wildlife and habitat. I could give you a ton of examples and I appreciate your interest in and support of them. I simply don't agree with the way things are being sold or done. That's it from me. I might check back about Monday, but am headed for adventures for a long weekend.

Thanks for the conversation, and I hope good things happen. Seriously.
 
Great response I read an article written in the 50s about the elk introduced to Nevada around ely in the 30s. The person ended up saying mule deer would not last around with elk. Have they completely died out no but those larger animals end up competing for feed. I imagine that crows and ravens have a lot with it as well.
 

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