Got to do something

fullthrottle

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Crazy optics, 1,000 yards rifles, multiple buddies (spotters). The advantage has shifted way too far in the hunters favor. All these things are awesome, and fun to use, but something has got to give. Mature buck numbers are paying, big time. It’s a problem when every buck within 1,000 yards, sadly sometimes further is in the danger zone. I know enforcing some of these tools is far fetched, but we have got to start limiting some of the opportunity. It makes me sick to see what Colorado is doing to the deer herd, particularly mature bucks. Tons of rifle tags that stretch into November?? Unreal. You can shove CWD where the sun don’t shine, I’ll take the chance and let nature work it out. Ganna wreck what’s left. Not good. It was insane the amount of up and coming bucks I watched fall to long range bombs during 3rd, and next year is even later...
 
Its been discussed here plenty of times...most wont go for it, unfortunately.

The argument being, we have to stick together, where do you stop the regulation, etc, etc.

Nobody willing to give up their little slice for the better of the deer herd.

I totally agree with what you're saying as well as a few other things I feel hunters can do to slow the bleeding of the herd, just saying what we are up against.

First person to say get out and scout, hunt harder they are still out there etc...should be considered an enemy to the herd, but sadly will be lauded by the next...
 
All you have to do is take a few contiguous units and ban scopes and trail cameras for 5 years. Turn it back to hunting instead of shooting. After 5 years assess the population and see if the hunting in those units are what people want going forward.

I agree with huntindad4, the problem is I don't believe the majority cares enough to give up anthing. People just argue "technology is always advancing, you can't stop it" blah blah blah.
 
Its been discussed here plenty of times...most wont go for it, unfortunately.

The argument being, we have to stick together, where do you stop the regulation, etc, etc.

Nobody willing to give up their little slice for the better of the deer herd.
Exactly right. If one person says to cut tags, they're against opportunity and family hunting. If somebody says limit muzzleloaders, then somebody else will bring up archery equipment. If somebody says ban trail cameras and baiting, others will say that person isn't going along with group think and will say that person must accept anything that another hunter wants to do or they're imposing their ethics on everybody else. Some go so far as to imply it's anti-hunting to want certain regulation enhancements because that's what the anti's want.

Nobody is willing to step out on a limb and get anything done and Colorado just keeps killing more and more mature bucks every year.

It's gonna get really ugly over the next half decade or so.
 
I dont agree with 1000 yard shooting but I would bet the amount of big bucks getting killed at 600+ is a very slim percentage! Most states are moving or already at opportunity not quality hunting!
 
I Went For a Deer Count/Look this Morning up one of our Drainage's!

1-Cow Moose!

Not One Deer on the Forest And Yes We Have New Snow on the Ground & Not One Damn Deer Track!

On the REZ:

2 Does with one 2 Point Breeding it's Mother!

2 Lone Does!

5 Does & Fawns with one PISSCUTTER 4 Point Buck! (16" Wide Type,A TARDville Trophy!)

PISS POOR!
 
Well I can tell you all but (2) of the bucks I saw get shot big or small during my week of hunting in Colorado were shot over 600+. 9 bucks killed, many others shot at, and missed. All but one buck shot at long range, took multiple shots. In one case 13. I’m not against long range, but when there’s more guys on the mountain doing it than not it’s a problem. It wasn’t that long ago not too many could make a 500 yard shot, now everyone can make it. And the ones that can’t shoot until they wound them and it turns into a circus. We’ve all been there or witnessed it.
When you can talk in a normal voice, while slamming truck doors, and the critter doesn’t even look up to see what the commotion is... that’s an issue.
I’m not hating on long range, it’s fun no doubt. I’m set up and guilty of it. But the critter’s defense system ought to come into play, or it’s just target practice.
I hear the archery and muzzleloader arguments, not the same. Normal dudes aren’t shooting bucks from 600+ with muzzleloader and bows.
 
It’s cool to see technology advance, but when it does, so do us as hunters. The deer aren’t advancing in smarts and feel safe 1000 yards away because no other predator can kill them from that distance. It’s sad to see what’s happening with the herds. Tags need to be cut, that’s for damn sure. Next year is gonna be the icing on the cake with the late dates.

I know a guy this year that borrowed a “custom” rifle. Took it out before the hunt and shot it at 100 yards. Guy has never shot over 300 on paper in his life. Owner of the rifle put all the info in the ballistic app for him. Goes on his hunt and finds a buck at 700 yards. He couldn’t get any closer as the deer was about to jump into private. Dials the scope, one shot and the buck is dead. He got lucky in my opinion and could have easily wounded that deer
 
I watched a guy shoot 10+ times at 500+ yards hit two bucks, got one. Not to mention the 15 havalon blade wrappers. they left on the ground after they cut there buck up. I’d like to shake there hands. I blame onX more then anything. I know it’s pissing in the wind just kind of a bummer. Did I mention these fine fellows were from Utah.
 
I Went For a Deer Count/Look this Morning up one of our Drainage's!

1-Cow Moose!

Not One Deer on the Forest And Yes We Have New Snow on the Ground & Not One Damn Deer Track!

On the REZ:

2 Does with one 2 Point Breeding it's Mother!

2 Lone Does!

5 Does & Fawns with one PISSCUTTER 4 Point Buck! (16" Wide Type,A TARDville Trophy!)

PISS POOR!
That’s pretty damn sad!
 
Colorado I’m pretty sure is screwed, they have passed the wolf bill and by 2023 they have to reintroduce wolves (that alone will destroy a state) and they haven’t had a thought about maybe switching up the hunt dates exept maybe make them worse. It also doesn’t help that non residents Such as the whole state of California have figured out Colorado is or was a great place to hunt and now the tags are getting harder to get. Colorado will soon become similar to Utah or worse. Well on the bright side Utah did limit tags on some units for 2021.

Seems like nowadays things can never get better
 
Its everywhere. All the technological advances in the name of 'ethical kills', have just extended the range of unethical attempts, and increased kill rates. Of course our wildlife have no chance.
 
I hate the damn long range/social media mentality, trail cams, etc. CO will have woofs dumped here in 5 yrs. Sad but I will be hitting it really hard for 5 or 6 yrs and then take up private land cow hunts. There is NO WAY TO SLOW OR STOP ANY OF THIS MESS
 
I have been going to the Henry Mountains for the last 8 or 9 years during the rut to check out the bucks and learn the land. (uncle with 24 points now) The decline in the Real big bucks over the years is staggering. We used to joke that the Management tag holder might not even be able to find a 3 x 4. There are still lots of bucks. I just got home from 3 days on the mountain and we seen plenty of bucks. Sadly, the biggest buck seen was maybe 190" . 5 years ago we would see at least 3 or 4 that were easily over 200". We have gotten too good at our game. Technology, guides, guns, optics, year long scouts. There are approx (50) tags in the draw for the Henry's.. After Auction, expo and raffle tags, I would bet close to (100) bucks are being shot. What used to be some big ones, some medium ones and maybe even some small ones, I believe that the majority of the biggest bucks are being shot every year. In the last 3 days, I seen a whole lot of 3x4 bucks and 4x4 bucks with a really bad crab claw gene that never used to be a Henry Mountain thing. It saddens me when I think of what it was compared to what it is now. I believe the same can be said about the Pauns as well as I have seen the same trend there as I visit frequently waiting my turn (18 points and counting).
 
Most dudes can’t hit a deer at 300 yards on purpose with a rifle... the number who can do it at 600+ is even smaller than that! There are a few guys who can do it, but definitely not the majority. Don’t believe me? Go pick any ridge during the rifle opener morning, sit down and watch. It’s pretty comical to see the shots guys miss
 
Most dudes can’t hit a deer at 300 yards on purpose with a rifle... the number who can do it at 600+ is even smaller than that! There are a few guys who can do it, but definitely not the majority. Don’t believe me? Go pick any ridge during the rifle opener morning, sit down and watch. It’s pretty comical to see the shots guys miss

The majority of men, women and even children that I know that hunt can take these 1000 yard rifles with turret scopes and snipe deer out to and in many cases beyond 1000 yards. It takes very little special skill.

If you can shoot good groups at 100 yards and keep your cool while shooting at game its too easy, minus wind etc....
 
The majority of men, women and even children that I know that hunt can take these 1000 yard rifles with turret scopes and snipe deer out to and in many cases beyond 1000 yards. It takes very little special skill.

If you can shoot good groups at 100 yards and keep your cool while shooting at game its too easy, minus wind etc....
I agree. These shots were at 1 mile with an out-of-the-box Model 70 with a Vortex HSLR scope. This isn't because I'm a good shot, it's just not that hard with a good rest and a sighted-in rifle shooting a match-grade bullet. Any 15-year old could hit that steel within 5-10 shots once it's dialed in.

Obviously things change when shooting cold-bore, in the field, from a pack, at a living animal; but the ease from a bench only serves to give a false sense of confidence when it really counts. No wonder people start lobbing 600yd shots at deer when they can't get any closer.

It in no way is good for hunting or wildlife.

20141108_170826.jpg
 
Agreed most can hit a target at 1000 yds with a solid rifle. Put a deer or elk out there and it changes dramatically. Just my experience in the last several years??
 
I totally agree it is a different thing to shoot an animal than a target, throw wind and slope in and it changes further.

I feel at some distance however, that the critter becomes just a target and the excitement becomes less of a factor. I know a few guys with long range rigs and they are pretty much a sure thing with them and their YOUNG kids have killed at 900 plus yards with the guns without much prep. One of the guys is a great shot on targets and has killed a few deer at long range but has also lost a couple he hit bad. He IMO gets a bit too excited even at the long shots.

There are numerous factors obviously but I feel like 20 years ago most of the big bucks were either killed by guys who hunted hard and intimately knew the animal they killed or a few just lucked into a big one. Now I believe a lot of big bucks are killed that would have just been seen once and then dreamed about back then.
 
When I was hunting the 2nd season rifle hunt in Colorado this year I probably ran into +20 plus hunters out in the field I didn’t really see any of them set up for long range neither was I, it think it seems like a lot of hunters do long range hunting but I think its really just the guys on social media that do it and that’s who you hear about, your average meat hunter doesn’t shoot passed 300 yards, I personally have heard of only one instance where a big game animal was shot at 1000+ yards and I highly doubt Most guys that are set up for it will actually send it, my dad has some guns that are very squared away long range wise and has shot coyotes out to 1000 yard but he won’t ever shoot any big game animal past 500.
The only reason to shoot anything past 500 is either cause your a fat ass or just want to flex
Long range hunting I don’t think is the problem. habitat, predators, extreme winters, extreme droughts, and competition from other ungulates are the biggest factors
Back in the 60s the reason why there was so much mule deer was in part by the habitat being very biased toward browsing animals such as mule deer and elk where basically a endangered species and conveniently they didn’t have droughts and wildfires out the ass like we do nowadays
Also it doesn’t help that animals can get educated and thats probably one big reason why you can find crap on your hunt, they know what going on.
 
Was hunting Colorado bucks 3rd season 2 years ago!

spotted a herd of elk across the canyon!

Saw a rag in the group!

a minute later from around the corner the shooting starts!

I glass back over to the bull and see it dancing as bullets are wizzing by it, kicking up snow!

The bull looks hurt!

the herd runs off!

The bull walks/limps off and goes farther away from shooter.
The bull walks over the ridge and so we walk up the trail to meet the shooter!

7 guys with range finders and smart phones out doing calcs on their apps!

1 shooter!

Gun looks like it was 100% custom!

Massive muzzle break and all the extras!

We jokingly said, well, did you get what you were shooting at? Shooter says, “ No, it was too far away and we decided to let it go because it wasn’t that big.”

I pull my range finder out.....

960 yards!

the top of ridge was 1020! Too far huh?! What the heck are you shooting at it for in the first place??!!!

The problem is if the “shooter” doesn’t see it drop, then they ain’t gonna do a walk over there to see if they hit and wounded it! Too far! That 1,000 yard shot across a deep canyon would turn into an all day follow up hike! And in a foot of snow.....Heck no are these clowns gonna go over there!

Disappointing to say the least!

I agree that something different needs to be done with our hunts!

There are some that can reach out and touch something at 600+ yards but it ain’t for everyone! Especially if your not willing to follow up on your shot!

A lot of quality animals walk off and die a miserable death because shooters are too lazy to follow up!

just keep wounding until one finally drops in the crosshairs! That is where all the animals are disappearing to! Multiple dead animals by single hunters every year equals nothing to hunt! Just my opinion though!
 
Oh the funny thing about that experience was those guys claimed that they NEVER took a shot at that elk!

They said they were prepping for a shot but decided to “let it go.”

So I asked the question, Then who was launching lead at it?!

They looked at each other and shrugged their shoulders as if they never heard any shots!

Lazy slobs didn’t want to walk across that nasty snow-filled canyon to follow up on what they did!

But no worries right?! It’s just a rag horn! They’re expendable!

I bet if that was a 400” bull, the excitement woulda been much different! They woulda been claiming they hit it and packing up their crap to go chase it!

I guess the non-trophy animals are just target practice. Film it for the Youtubes! Delete it if it doesn’t go the way it should and move on to the next long range bragging opportunity!
 
Fullthrottle,

You said something very interesting.

"but we have got to start limiting some of the opportunity."


Finally people need to realize managing "opportunity" isn't wildlife management at all. IT IS GAMBLING WITH A RESOURCE.
 
Most dudes can’t hit a deer at 300 yards on purpose with a rifle... the number who can do it at 600+ is even smaller than that! There are a few guys who can do it, but definitely not the majority. Don’t believe me? Go pick any ridge during the rifle opener morning, sit down and watch. It’s pretty comical to see the shots guys miss.
Easy to watch guys miss when they sit 30 yards from you. Hard to watch guys miss when there are no deer to shoot at. Both are a big problem.
 
I say limit the opportunity, because what else are you going to do to slow the flow? Got to limit the opportunity on high power rifle hunts. You could actually increase the opportunity with more primitive type weapons. Or put the rifle hunts in October. I don’t know? Just sucks, I like seeing big bucks. Colorado was a place you could reasonably expect that. After next year a lot is going to change in that regard. If anyone thinks hunting bucks deep into November with high powered rifles isn’t going to put a noticeable hurt on the big ones your crazy. As far as guys, gals, kids being able to pull off a 600+ yard shot, you need to wake up. Scopes, ballistics, rangefinders, are to good. Putting the crosshairs on a critter at 200 or 700 makes no difference. It’s all about the same in the end. A 24x scope is pretty telling at 700 yards. Some of you guys act like it’s some sort of sniper skill level, perfect trigger pull, got to be on a bench, BS. It’s really not that hard. I would also agree, there are many more factors that play a much larger role in herd numbers than long range rigs, but I would also argue long range is one of the bigger players of mature bucks numbers than one might think. We all know when they get 5-6 years old they are a different creature, but if that defense system they’ve built doesn’t come into play, well... then they are just a target. Just my 2 cents
 

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