Grass land Camo recommendations

Rie bread

Member
Messages
60
Iv been hunting low elevation yellow grassy oak forests this season and have been stumped on a good camo pattern. i don’t ever wear camo but due to a few recent stalks i hope that camo will help close the distance or actually help hide my outline. i usually just wear earth tone plaid long sleeve.

the sitka duck marsh is the closest pattern that seem right but a little “orange”/brown” or the kuiu valo pattern which seems like the right color but not pattern? anyone have experience in this types of terrain and found a good pattern?

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3TOE

Very Active Member
Messages
1,040
I think either of those choices would be good. Don’t discount mixed solid tans or lights browns.
 

Rie bread

Member
Messages
60
iv never bought camo cause it felt like wasting money. i think the only camo iv had was passed down military surplus pants. it’s hard to justify spending $60-$100+ for one piece of clothing. i guess these companies have “complex” patterns and i’m wondering if simpler(less expensive) patterns work just as well.

most of the time in the mountains there is enough cover unless up near tree line. down in the foothills there are lots of open spots between oak trees and under the canopy that make it hard to approach feeding /bedding deer.

was genuinely wondering if someone had a recommendation and experience with a pattern the helped in those “caught” in the open moments.

edit to add: this while rifle hunting has never been a problem only now that iv started archery hunting have i noticed this .

again thanks for any inputs.
 
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Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,507
Over my entire hunting life (40 years with bow) I bet I havent spent $500 total on camo. It looks like it too.
I was on a sheep hunt last year and one of the guys in camp said "Hey, the 80's called and wants their camo back". I took it as a compliment since I'd bet it was even older than that. LOL

Having hunted with a bow, off and on for almost 55 years, I've learned that the wind and my movement have WAY more to do with it than the pattern....but yet I still wear the "uniform"

Okay, I wasn't much help except for keeping the topic TTT.

Zeke
 

Rie bread

Member
Messages
60
i agree.

iv had some excellent conditions with the wind consistent up canyon and strong/loud and am getting into 50-70 yards. these particular situation closing that distance has proven to difficult even at a slow crawl. you must know that moment i describe “caught in the open” “staring contest”. you freeze. does camo work?

iv started practicing my long shot.

maybe i should wear the uniform. question is the cheap one or the $$ one. ( i loath the idea of some brands due to the stigma lol but they seem to have those “complex”/“alternative” patterns)
 

Wheels2

Member
Messages
13
Kings Camo makes a desert camo that looks pretty good or see if they still make anything in Mossy Oak Brush pattern, I like that.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,076
Growing up stalking whitetails with a bow in Iowa we figured out early on waterfowl type camo colors work best right behind wind and movement for greater concealment.
 

Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,507
Study shows they "see well in low light and detect movement".

That sums if up from my perspective.
I cannot begin to count the number of deer that have walked by, while I'm stationary, at very close range while I was wearing lots of hunter orange!

I also believe that most camo "patterns" are too dark and make us stand out more than they should.

Zeke
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
4,076
To add. We would place various camo out in the field at various distances to see what it looked like. As Zeke says, most patterns are to dark making you look like a dark blob. On a disked/plowed or soybean field back in Iowa this might be OK but most of the time not the case. Wetlands, marsh, cattails, grass, or even Carhart duck light brown looked better. I wear camo now that's been around a long frigging time including my old timberflage camo. I still like lighter colored camo clothing if even worn at all anymore.
 

OutdoorWriter

Long Time Member
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5,626
interesting read......true??....maybe, maybe not but their vision is different than ours......

Because I was skeptical, I spent more than a year researching the subject and was present when they tested the vision of LIVE deer at the Univ. of Georgia's deer research facility. I also attended the Southeast Deer Symposium in Mississippi where two biologists presented their papers on the subject.

As a result, I wrote the first and most definitive article about the subject for OUTDOOR LIFE magazine in 1994. The article and supplemental charts, etc. covered about five-six pages.

Although the original topic concerned deer, MOST non-human mammals are "blind" to blaze orange and nearly all shades of red into the infrared range of the color spectrum. That general statement takes in ungulates, canines and felines.

In contrast, all of the above are highly adept at seeing in the lower range of the spectrum, i.e. blues to ultraviolet.

The only hunted creatures that will see orange are the avian creatures, such as wild turkey, waterfowl and upland game. And they also are very attuned to the UV part of the spectrum.

The article you cited is basically a recap of everything I wrote 30 years ago.

The majority of camo patterns are designed to harvest hunters not game animals. 😉 The latest and greatest is usually nothing more but the same ol', same ol'. Patterns with greens and blacks that are normally small and close together might look peachy to a guy standing a few feet away, but it becomes a dark blob at a distance.

As a result of the SCIENTIFIC research that was done, the best camo colors are light tans to browns/black because an ungulate's eyes react the least to any of them and MOST of the terrain appears as the same colors to them. Likewise for blaze orange, which falls within the tan area of a game mammal's dichromatic (two color) vision. IOW, they see colors much like a human who is colorblind.

Hunters in Africa, who rarely wear camo, have been killing game for centuries wearing solid tan, brown or olive pants and shirts. Likewise for hunters in those states with mandatory laws in regards to blaze orange such as Colorado and Wyoming.

So if you wish to wear camo because it gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling, pick one with brownish colors and large patterns. IMHO, ASAT is about as close as you can get to the ideal. It ain't cheap, but it's well made and rugged.

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Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,507
Good info you all!

Like I said, I often wear camo because it's part of the "uniform" and because it's clothing dedicated to hunting rather than relying on it to mask the wind or my movements.
Wash is always done with no UV soap and I don't wear blue jeans because they wick water and they're blue.
I also often wear different types of camo on the top and bottom which I'd guess breaks my outline up a bit more.
Do I think camo works? Yes, I've had hunters walk by and never see me. LOL

Zeke
 

OutdoorWriter

Long Time Member
Messages
5,626
I designed this one a few years ago for Texas but never had it made. It's called KornKamo. 😉

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I also attempted to design a pattern for the salt users, but it turned out looking like snow camo. 😎
 
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OutdoorWriter

Long Time Member
Messages
5,626
This is from a good thread on here about 10 years ago. The article below is also basically a recap of what I had written in OL.

*******
Article provided by the Quality Deer Management Association

It's happened to nearly every deer hunter?for no apparent reason a deer spots you from a distance through heavy cover. Why? Was it your scent, your noise, your movement, or perhaps what you were wearing? While all hunters agree that deer have an amazing ability to detect movement, the consensus regarding their ability to see color is far less unanimous.
While the debate over deer vision is not new, it has intensified in recent years as more states have required hunters to wear blaze orange clothing while hunting. Many hunters are concerned that wearing blaze orange reduces their chances of success.

Another topic of debate is camouflage clothing. During the past decade, there has been a tremendous increase in the number and variety of camouflage patterns available to hunters. This has occurred despite little knowledge of what game animals actually see.

A more recent question is whether or not deer can see ultraviolet (UV) light. UV light is the type of light that causes your clothes to "glow" when near insect zappers or nightclub lights. The connection with hunting is that many laundry products and dyes used in the manufacture and care of hunting clothing contain "color brighteners" or more technically, UV "enhancers." This is why clothes containing these products look "brighter" and "whiter" to the human eye. In fact, it has been proposed that hunters wearing UV treated clothes actually emit a "glow" that deer can see in low light conditions.

Fortunately, arguments on deer vision can largely be laid to rest due to the results of the most advanced deer vision study ever undertaken. This study revealed many previously unknown facts regarding deer vision. I was fortunate to participate in this study while working as a Wildlife Research Coordinator for The University of Georgia.

What is Vision?
Before discussing the results of the study, it is important to understand the basics of vision. First of all, what is vision? Vision occurs when light enters the eye and is absorbed by specialized cells located in the back of the eye. These cells respond to the light and send a signal to the brain which is translated into sight. The color perceived by the brain is determined by the wavelength of light reflected. In other words, objects do not actually have color they simply reflect light of a particular wavelength that our brain perceives as color. The spectrum of color ranges from ultraviolet on the short end of the spectrum to infrared on the long end of the spectrum. Humans can see the range of colors between, but not including, these two extremes.

Understanding the general make-up of the eye also is important. In all mammals, the retina, located at the back of the eye, consists of two types of light sensitive cells called rods and cones. Rods function in the absence, or near absence, of light and permit vision in darkness. Cones function in full light and permit daytime and color vision. Humans can see a wide range of colors because we have three types of cones in our eye. One is sensitive to short wavelength light (blue), one is sensitive to middle wavelength light (green) and the third is sensitive to long wavelength light (red). This three-color, or trichromatic, vision is the most advanced form of color vision known.

Differences Between a Deer's Eye and a Human's
Prior to our study, we reviewed the existing information on deer vision with some interesting findings. First, deer have a higher concentration of rods (nighttime cells) than humans, but a lower concentration of cones (daytime and color cells). Therefore, deer have better nighttime vision than humans but poorer daytime and color vision.

Second, deer have a pupil that opens wider than ours. This allows more light to be gathered in low light conditions. Third, deer have a reflective layer in the back of their eye called a tapetum that causes their eyes to shine at night. The tapetum acts as a mirror and reflects the light not absorbed by the receptor cells when it enters the eye the first time back across the cells for a second chance. In other words, deer get to use the same light twice while humans get to use it only once.

A fourth difference found between a deer's eye and a human's gives us some idea of their ability to see UV light. The human eye is protected by a filter that blocks about 99 percent of UV light from entering the eye. This filter protects our eye, much like a pair of sunglasses. It also allows us to focus more sharply on fine detail. The trade-off for having this filter is a severe loss of sensitivity to short wavelength colors, especially those in the UV spectrum.

Deer, on the other hand, do not have a UV filter. Therefore, they see much better in the UV spectrum but lack the ability to see fine detail. This explains why deer often move their head from side to side when they encounter a hunter. Since deer lack this filter, they would be expected to see a greater difference in UV treated fabrics than humans.

The Study
In August 1992, a group of leading deer researchers and vision scientists gathered at The University of Georgia (UGA) in Athens to conduct this landmark study. The group of researchers included Drs. R. Larry Marchinton and Karl V. Miller, and myself from UGA, Dr. Gerald H. Jacobs and Jess Degan from the University of California, and Dr. Jay Neitz from the Medical College of Wisconsin. This study was made possible due to a highly sophisticated computer system developed by Dr. Jacobs. This system is based on the principle that an electrical response is produced when light enters the eye. The computer interprets these responses and translates them into a "scientific best guess" of what deer can actually see.

Findings of the Study
The results of our study confirmed that deer possess two (rather than three as in humans) types of cones allowing limited color vision (Figure 1). The cone that deer lack is the ?red? cone, or the one sensitive to long wavelength colors such as red and orange. This suggests that wearing bright colors while hunting does not affect hunting success. This does not mean that these colors are invisible to deer, but rather that they are perceived differently.

Deer are essentially red-green color blind like some humans. Their color vision is limited to the short (blue) and middle (green) wavelength colors. As a result, deer likely can distinguish blue from red, but not green from red, or orange from red. Therefore, it appears that hunters would be equally suited wearing green, red, or orange clothing but perhaps slightly disadvantaged wearing blue.

The results regarding the UV capabilities of deer were equally fascinating. Our results confirmed that deer lack a UV filter in their eye and that their vision in the shorter wavelengths was much better than ours. Deer also were found to have a relatively high sensitivity (good vision) in the short wavelengths where UV brighteners and dyes are active.

While not entirely conclusive, this finding suggests that deer are capable of seeing some UV light and that fabrics containing UV dyes and brighteners may be more visible to deer than to humans.

Implications for Hunters
What do the results of this study mean for hunters? Should you throw away all of your camouflage clothes? Definitely not. It is important to keep the findings of this study in perspective. There is no question that scent and movement are far more important than the color of your clothing or whether or not it contains UV brighteners.

As far as a deer's senses are concerned, their daytime and color vision is pretty average. In fact, the actual color of the fabric is relatively unimportant as long as the pattern blends with your surroundings. Therefore, camouflage clothing is still recommended. In contrast, solid unbroken patterns, especially of light colors, are not recommended. Similarly, garments made from vinyl or plastic can alert deer because they reflect light. This works much like the glare from a blued gun barrel. It is not the color of the barrel that alerts the game, but rather the light the barrel reflects. The best of both worlds would be a product that provides both camouflage for concealment and blaze orange for safety. Such camouflage blaze orange hunting apparel is available but unfortunately is not legal in many states.

Should hunters be concerned about the UV brightness of their clothes? Perhaps. Keep in mind that this would only be problem during low light conditions such as early morning and late evening. However, this is when deer are most active. One option is to stop washing your hunting clothes in laundry products containing "brighteners." This may prove difficult because most laundry products currently available contain these agents. However, there are now products available that eliminate UV light from clothing. Should you purchase such a product? This is difficult to answer. Hunters have been successfully harvesting deer for hundreds of years without the aid of such products. However, armed with our latest knowledge it remains possible, even likely, that such a product may help. On the other hand, it definitely can't hurt.
 
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Rie bread

Member
Messages
60
wow! really good info and articles. thanks you for the pattern tips as well. i can only imagine the corn camo is only good in nebraska.

with this new knowledge i might just try and DIY a camo/tan sun hoodie. when hunting in the mountains im in all olive green.

thank you for saving me $$. :)
 

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