Deerlove
Long Time Member
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- 6,017
grizzly attack
- Thread starter Deerlove
- Start date
fullthrottle
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,361
This grizzly bear deal is spiraling out of control. Of course the bears don't act like they normally do, they haven't been hunted, or threatened by man since they were reintroduced. They've evolved, and learning they have no predators. Cubs aren't being taught to fear man, but learning that we are an easy meal. That ain?t good for anyone. Better start managing these critters. Some areas outdoorsman are seeing multiple grizzlies a day, that's crazy. So you shut these grizzly hunts down, end up having more and more bad encounters with bears, and then you end up killing them anyways because now they have a taste for humans. Great... that's real sound management. What a joke society has become.
BluffGruff
Active Member
- Messages
- 386
Not disagreeing that they need some management, but these bears are native, never reintroduced, and bears in places where they are hunted heavily still act this way - see all of Alaska as an example.
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,337
>Not disagreeing that they need some
>management, but these bears are
>native, never reintroduced, and bears
>in places where they are
>hunted heavily still act this
>way - see all of
>Alaska as an example.
Interior grizzlies in Alaska that are hunted do not act the same as grizzlies in Wyoming. I have experienced bears in both states and there is a huge difference. In general, the bears in Alaska are much more fearful of humans.
As far as attacks from sows with cubs, that is a more instinctive reaction and most likely doesn't change no matter how much hunting would be allowed.
>management, but these bears are
>native, never reintroduced, and bears
>in places where they are
>hunted heavily still act this
>way - see all of
>Alaska as an example.
Interior grizzlies in Alaska that are hunted do not act the same as grizzlies in Wyoming. I have experienced bears in both states and there is a huge difference. In general, the bears in Alaska are much more fearful of humans.
As far as attacks from sows with cubs, that is a more instinctive reaction and most likely doesn't change no matter how much hunting would be allowed.
We had 5 encounters in the same general area this year . Had a very large boar come in dead down wind, luckily he stepped on a stick and I saw him before he bluff charged . This bear had no fear of humans at all. After the bluff charge he stayed in the area for well over a minute just sizing us up before leaving. Something has to be done to control the bear population !!
Mnbearhunter123
Active Member
- Messages
- 352
You're not seeing a difference in bear behavior between the 2 states. You're seeing a difference in human density. The more people in the woods the greater chance of an encounter. The more encounters the high chance of a bad one. It's unrealistic to think the harvesting of a 10-20 adult boars over the entire Yellowstone range is going to augment the disposition of the grizzly population in its reaction humans at all. Using grizzly attacks as your flag reason for a hunt is counterproductive. Stick to environmental carrying capacity and pred/prey models and we'll get the hunt back much sooner.
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,337
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-18 AT 08:51AM (MST)[p]>You're not seeing a difference in
>bear behavior between the 2
>states. You're seeing a difference
>in human density. The more
>people in the woods the
>greater chance of an encounter.
> The more encounters the
>high chance of a bad
>one. It's unrealistic to
>think the harvesting of a
>10-20 adult boars over the
>entire Yellowstone range is going
>to augment the disposition of
>the grizzly population in its
>reaction humans at all.
>Using grizzly attacks as your
>flag reason for a hunt
>is counterproductive. Stick to
>environmental carrying capacity and pred/prey
>models and we'll get the
>hunt back much sooner.
Yes, I am seeing a difference in bear behavior from Alaska to Wyoming. And it wasn't me who claimed shooting ten to twenty bears would change that.
In Wyoming, once they know you are in the drainage, the bears frequent your camp, not fearful of the smells associated with humans. In Alaska, bears in general are fearful of human smells and stay away. It is also rare in Alaska to have grizzlies conditioned to come to gun shots, which happens in Wyoming more frequently.
There are always exceptions to this, but yes there is a vast difference in bear behavior between the states. You can make your own conclusions as to why.
>bear behavior between the 2
>states. You're seeing a difference
>in human density. The more
>people in the woods the
>greater chance of an encounter.
> The more encounters the
>high chance of a bad
>one. It's unrealistic to
>think the harvesting of a
>10-20 adult boars over the
>entire Yellowstone range is going
>to augment the disposition of
>the grizzly population in its
>reaction humans at all.
>Using grizzly attacks as your
>flag reason for a hunt
>is counterproductive. Stick to
>environmental carrying capacity and pred/prey
>models and we'll get the
>hunt back much sooner.
Yes, I am seeing a difference in bear behavior from Alaska to Wyoming. And it wasn't me who claimed shooting ten to twenty bears would change that.
In Wyoming, once they know you are in the drainage, the bears frequent your camp, not fearful of the smells associated with humans. In Alaska, bears in general are fearful of human smells and stay away. It is also rare in Alaska to have grizzlies conditioned to come to gun shots, which happens in Wyoming more frequently.
There are always exceptions to this, but yes there is a vast difference in bear behavior between the states. You can make your own conclusions as to why.
mightyhunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,179
I have never been to Alaska and can't personally make the comparison. However, I am inclined to believe what jm77 is saying. He is spot on when he states the grizzly bears in Wyoming are inclined to come to gun shots. They do this frequently and the result can be a little frightening. I lived in North Idaho with grizzly bears for many years. The bears in Wyoming are a lot more aggressive than those bears ever were.
I don't think the Montana Federal District Judge in Montana gave a rat's a** about bear attacks, environmental carrying capacity or predator/prey models in his ruling. His ruling was inevitable based on his background, party affiliation and who appointed him. To suggest that federal judges in this country don't choose an outcome and try to come out with a rationale for doing so is na?ve at best. Just like Judge Malloy and Judge Amy Berman wanted to be the darlings of the eco-elites so does Judge Christensen. It is the closest they ever become to being a "rock star". I predict his decision will be overturned in the future. When you review the last D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals decision (which was not appealed), on the wolf in Wyoming, it established a clear precedent about what the role of federal district judges is in ESA cases. Judge Christensen ignored that precedent.
The decision of the federal judge on the grizzly bear issue has resulted in way more grizzly bears being destroyed in Wyoming in 2018. The state may not be technically in charge right now, but the USFWS is deferring all decisions and action to the State of Wyoming. The lady running the grizzly bear program for the USFWS is allowing G&F to destroy problem bears. Her marching orders come from Secretary Ryan Zinke and she knows it.
A few months ago, I made a post about what I was told when a couple of G&F employees were trapping bears in Sunlight/Crandall this year. They reached their trapping goal weeks early. They advised me that the bears they were trapping were starting to stunt out and starve. They said that many of the boars were in tough shape from fighting. They also told me that this is the first time they have not trapped a single black bear. That would certainly indicate that the carrying capacity of the area had been reached.
My biggest complaint with Wyoming G&F is their continued underestimating of the actual population of grizzly bears in the area. They admit that they are doing this. It is not helping the situation.
I don't care if there is ever a hunt. I do care that state management is returned to Wyoming. With or without hunting, they will get rid of the problem bears that plague the area. This will make hunters, fisherman and others living close to the bears much safer. If a hunt is back in play, I would like to see G&F employees direct each individual hunt. That doesn't sound like fair chase, but I think it would avoid the problems associated with the hunts. Put a bear on the "hit list" and show the hunter where that bear is.
just sayin...mh
I don't think the Montana Federal District Judge in Montana gave a rat's a** about bear attacks, environmental carrying capacity or predator/prey models in his ruling. His ruling was inevitable based on his background, party affiliation and who appointed him. To suggest that federal judges in this country don't choose an outcome and try to come out with a rationale for doing so is na?ve at best. Just like Judge Malloy and Judge Amy Berman wanted to be the darlings of the eco-elites so does Judge Christensen. It is the closest they ever become to being a "rock star". I predict his decision will be overturned in the future. When you review the last D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals decision (which was not appealed), on the wolf in Wyoming, it established a clear precedent about what the role of federal district judges is in ESA cases. Judge Christensen ignored that precedent.
The decision of the federal judge on the grizzly bear issue has resulted in way more grizzly bears being destroyed in Wyoming in 2018. The state may not be technically in charge right now, but the USFWS is deferring all decisions and action to the State of Wyoming. The lady running the grizzly bear program for the USFWS is allowing G&F to destroy problem bears. Her marching orders come from Secretary Ryan Zinke and she knows it.
A few months ago, I made a post about what I was told when a couple of G&F employees were trapping bears in Sunlight/Crandall this year. They reached their trapping goal weeks early. They advised me that the bears they were trapping were starting to stunt out and starve. They said that many of the boars were in tough shape from fighting. They also told me that this is the first time they have not trapped a single black bear. That would certainly indicate that the carrying capacity of the area had been reached.
My biggest complaint with Wyoming G&F is their continued underestimating of the actual population of grizzly bears in the area. They admit that they are doing this. It is not helping the situation.
I don't care if there is ever a hunt. I do care that state management is returned to Wyoming. With or without hunting, they will get rid of the problem bears that plague the area. This will make hunters, fisherman and others living close to the bears much safer. If a hunt is back in play, I would like to see G&F employees direct each individual hunt. That doesn't sound like fair chase, but I think it would avoid the problems associated with the hunts. Put a bear on the "hit list" and show the hunter where that bear is.
just sayin...mh
I think this is a good idea. I don't have any desire to hunt a grizzly myself, but it is an important tool that the state needs to manage the population. Including some directed hunting allows for some hunting opportunity on specific animals that are likely to have to be removed anyway. I think there could actually be two quotas- one that is a traditional hunt like was planned this year, and another for "3 strikes" type bears, not saying 3 chances is the magic number. These bears that start down the fairly predictable path of being moved only to come back to where they got in trouble, or just make trouble in their new home get marked (red ear tag, whatever). Another allocation of tags for this type of hunt. Description of bear, where most recently released info given to hunters. I think it could be a great management tool without feeling like a canned/non fair-chase hunt. Looking for a specific bear in a drainage or area isn't exactly a slam dunk.
>I have never been to Alaska
>and can't personally make the
>comparison. However, I am inclined
>to believe what jm77 is
>saying. He is spot on
>when he states the grizzly
>bears in Wyoming are inclined
>to come to gun shots.
>They do this frequently and
>the result can be a
>little frightening. I lived in
>North Idaho with grizzly bears
>for many years. The bears
>in Wyoming are a lot
>more aggressive than those bears
>ever were.
>
>I don't think the Montana Federal
>District Judge in Montana gave
>a rat's a** about bear
>attacks, environmental carrying capacity or
>predator/prey models in his ruling.
>His ruling was inevitable based
>on his background, party affiliation
>and who appointed him. To
>suggest that federal judges in
>this country don't choose an
>outcome and try to come
>out with a rationale for
>doing so is na?ve at
>best. Just like Judge Malloy
>and Judge Amy Berman wanted
>to be the darlings of
>the eco-elites so does Judge
>Christensen. It is the closest
>they ever become to being
>a "rock star". I predict
>his decision will be overturned
>in the future. When you
>review the last D.C. Circuit
>Court of Appeals decision (which
>was not appealed), on the
>wolf in Wyoming, it established
>a clear precedent about what
>the role of federal district
>judges is in ESA cases.
>Judge Christensen ignored that precedent.
>
>
>The decision of the federal judge
>on the grizzly bear issue
>has resulted in way more
>grizzly bears being destroyed in
>Wyoming in 2018. The state
>may not be technically in
>charge right now, but the
>USFWS is deferring all decisions
>and action to the State
>of Wyoming. The lady running
>the grizzly bear program for
>the USFWS is allowing G&F
>to destroy problem bears. Her
>marching orders come from Secretary
>Ryan Zinke and she knows
>it.
>
>A few months ago, I made
>a post about what I
>was told when a couple
>of G&F employees were trapping
>bears in Sunlight/Crandall this year.
>They reached their trapping goal
>weeks early. They advised me
>that the bears they were
>trapping were starting to stunt
>out and starve. They said
>that many of the boars
>were in tough shape from
>fighting. They also told me
>that this is the first
>time they have not trapped
>a single black bear. That
>would certainly indicate that the
>carrying capacity of the area
>had been reached.
>
>My biggest complaint with Wyoming G&F
>is their continued underestimating of
>the actual population of grizzly
>bears in the area. They
>admit that they are doing
>this. It is not helping
>the situation.
>
>I don't care if there is
>ever a hunt. I do
>care that state management is
>returned to Wyoming. With or
>without hunting, they will get
>rid of the problem bears
>that plague the area. This
>will make hunters, fisherman and
>others living close to the
>bears much safer. If a
>hunt is back in play,
>I would like to see
>G&F employees direct each individual
>hunt. That doesn't sound like
>fair chase, but I think
>it would avoid the problems
>associated with the hunts. Put
>a bear on the "hit
>list" and show the hunter
>where that bear is.
>
>just sayin...mh
>
>
>I have never been to Alaska
>and can't personally make the
>comparison. However, I am inclined
>to believe what jm77 is
>saying. He is spot on
>when he states the grizzly
>bears in Wyoming are inclined
>to come to gun shots.
>They do this frequently and
>the result can be a
>little frightening. I lived in
>North Idaho with grizzly bears
>for many years. The bears
>in Wyoming are a lot
>more aggressive than those bears
>ever were.
>
>I don't think the Montana Federal
>District Judge in Montana gave
>a rat's a** about bear
>attacks, environmental carrying capacity or
>predator/prey models in his ruling.
>His ruling was inevitable based
>on his background, party affiliation
>and who appointed him. To
>suggest that federal judges in
>this country don't choose an
>outcome and try to come
>out with a rationale for
>doing so is na?ve at
>best. Just like Judge Malloy
>and Judge Amy Berman wanted
>to be the darlings of
>the eco-elites so does Judge
>Christensen. It is the closest
>they ever become to being
>a "rock star". I predict
>his decision will be overturned
>in the future. When you
>review the last D.C. Circuit
>Court of Appeals decision (which
>was not appealed), on the
>wolf in Wyoming, it established
>a clear precedent about what
>the role of federal district
>judges is in ESA cases.
>Judge Christensen ignored that precedent.
>
>
>The decision of the federal judge
>on the grizzly bear issue
>has resulted in way more
>grizzly bears being destroyed in
>Wyoming in 2018. The state
>may not be technically in
>charge right now, but the
>USFWS is deferring all decisions
>and action to the State
>of Wyoming. The lady running
>the grizzly bear program for
>the USFWS is allowing G&F
>to destroy problem bears. Her
>marching orders come from Secretary
>Ryan Zinke and she knows
>it.
>
>A few months ago, I made
>a post about what I
>was told when a couple
>of G&F employees were trapping
>bears in Sunlight/Crandall this year.
>They reached their trapping goal
>weeks early. They advised me
>that the bears they were
>trapping were starting to stunt
>out and starve. They said
>that many of the boars
>were in tough shape from
>fighting. They also told me
>that this is the first
>time they have not trapped
>a single black bear. That
>would certainly indicate that the
>carrying capacity of the area
>had been reached.
>
>My biggest complaint with Wyoming G&F
>is their continued underestimating of
>the actual population of grizzly
>bears in the area. They
>admit that they are doing
>this. It is not helping
>the situation.
>
>I don't care if there is
>ever a hunt. I do
>care that state management is
>returned to Wyoming. With or
>without hunting, they will get
>rid of the problem bears
>that plague the area. This
>will make hunters, fisherman and
>others living close to the
>bears much safer. If a
>hunt is back in play,
>I would like to see
>G&F employees direct each individual
>hunt. That doesn't sound like
>fair chase, but I think
>it would avoid the problems
>associated with the hunts. Put
>a bear on the "hit
>list" and show the hunter
>where that bear is.
>
>just sayin...mh
>
>
Sitka_Lover
Member
- Messages
- 8
It really doesn't matter either way. The longer the hunts wait, the less the law is enforced. There sure has been a lot of "unsuccessful relocation's" of grizzly's in the past few months. Also, comparing Alaska to Wyoming is not a good argument.
If the bears are killing people at an abnormal rate, they should probably be hunted.
But what do I know, I see them in my back yard once a month, so I am sure I am biased to lowering the population numbers. I don't want to see my family members killed by one.
If the bears are killing people at an abnormal rate, they should probably be hunted.
But what do I know, I see them in my back yard once a month, so I am sure I am biased to lowering the population numbers. I don't want to see my family members killed by one.
Crookedarrow
Member
- Messages
- 9
I'm headed to grizz country this week to help on an archery hunt. Hopefully we don't have to deploy our spray.
hornkiller
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,208
Like taking a knife to a gun fight good luck!
Chesterwyo
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,537
A glock 10MM loaded with hard cast is more than adequate for bear protection.
Those who make the argument that killing bears means they learn nothing about having a fear of people are discounting both the great intelligence of these bears and the ability of their noses to provide them with detailed information about what is happening in their world, which we can't really relate to. I've hunted interior AK and the Teton Wilderness in WY and there is a big difference in the attitudes of the bears towards people in these places. I say this to the environmental groups out there opposed to this hunt, of which I am a member of some - if you truly support the presence of grizz and the possibility for some further expansion in the northern Rockies, then you should support limited hunting, and not just use this issue as another fund raising tool.
Buckjunkie
Active Member
- Messages
- 268
Saw a video of a friend from Mt. testing their bear spray. Slight wind blew it back in her face making her blind. Now that would be great...blind when a charging bear is around you!!!
Those that say bear spray is better are ideologues. They only care about the bears.
Carry a pistol; the biggest one you can fire accurately under pressure. If not, then a shotgun with slugs and the plug removed. Your life depends on it.
Also, If I were hunting deer in bear country I would carry a large rifle with heavy for caliber bullets like a 300 RUM with 200 or 220 grain heavy constructed bullets i.e. partition, Barnes, Trophy Bonded...
Those that say bear spray is better are ideologues. They only care about the bears.
Carry a pistol; the biggest one you can fire accurately under pressure. If not, then a shotgun with slugs and the plug removed. Your life depends on it.
Also, If I were hunting deer in bear country I would carry a large rifle with heavy for caliber bullets like a 300 RUM with 200 or 220 grain heavy constructed bullets i.e. partition, Barnes, Trophy Bonded...
ClearCreek
Active Member
- Messages
- 286
>Saw a video of a friend
>from Mt. testing their bear
>spray. Slight wind blew it
>back in her face making
>her blind. Now that would
>be great...blind when a charging
>bear is around you!!!
>
OK, so I gotta ask; she was testing the bear spray and sprayed it into the wind??
Why would you release bear spray in a direction where even a slight wind would blow it back to you?
ClearCreek
>from Mt. testing their bear
>spray. Slight wind blew it
>back in her face making
>her blind. Now that would
>be great...blind when a charging
>bear is around you!!!
>
OK, so I gotta ask; she was testing the bear spray and sprayed it into the wind??
Why would you release bear spray in a direction where even a slight wind would blow it back to you?
ClearCreek
Wapitiwilly
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,233
After surviving a brown bear charge that took several 338, a few 45 and a couple of 12gauge slugs. Firepower is the only thing I would trust and believe me you better have plenty??
Does not matter what gun you are carrying if it is out of reach or you are not familiar with it enough to get off a shot. I think if you have two people to take care of an elk in Grizzly territory, one should be on watch and the other should do the work. Maybe trade off? But one person on watch with gun/spray. If solo, still try to keep as much focus as possible on your surroundings.
For sure rack the slide and keep the gun close if working on an elk! A hip holster might be better than a chest while working on an elk?
For sure rack the slide and keep the gun close if working on an elk! A hip holster might be better than a chest while working on an elk?
Stubaby
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,613
I killed a Bighorn sheep in the bob marshal a few years back. I had my twin brother stand guard with a home defense model 870 express with 00 buck and slugs while I did the work.
Only a sheep tag would get me to hunt in grizz country. Archery elk?no way!!
"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
www.s2outdoor.com
www.tojagrid.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
Only a sheep tag would get me to hunt in grizz country. Archery elk?no way!!
"That's a special feeling, Lloyd!?
www.s2outdoor.com
www.tojagrid.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8iBAgry-KrH49Tua4ftbA
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
