Gunnison Basin Hunt in 2014

YBO

Long Time Member
Messages
3,185
I'm considering cashing in a butt load of NR points this next year. Was there any HODAD bucks shot in the third or fourth seasons this year? I know the weather was quite warm and was wondering if all the bucks had migrated down by the end of the 4th season. Would you continue to put in for 44 3rd or 4th or put in for one of the basin units? I have 17 or 18 points. One less than UT. Thanks for the opinions and info.
 
There is no 4th season in the Gunnison units. And most of the 3rd seasons take 10 or less points, I would not burn that many if it were me.
 
I'd get rid of those points and start hunting again. Weather might be a factor. I'd be curious to hear if the G Basin got a butt load of snow from this storm. Hope winter does not start early there again. It's finally making some progress from 07-08 and sure does not need a repeat of that winter again.
 
I thought 53 and 63 were also considered part of the Gunnison Basin. Maybe not. Anyway, thanks for the responses.
 
Gunnison basin is still hurting.. 54 especially. A few bucks around, but hard pressed to find a monster in the third season the way the weather has been the past couple years. I wouldn't waste that many points on a tag in 54 or 55. 66/67 could be a different story, but I honestly havent spent the time out there to know. If i were in your shoes I'd keep sitting on 44 fourth season. If you arent so much concerned with killing a monster; 21 third season can be a really fun hunt as far as seeing lots of deer, but a 180 inch plus buck is a tall order right now.
 
I've spent quite a bit of time in the basin over the last several years. In my opinion, the basin is not on the upswing, it's on a decline. I have not seen more 3 points in my 31 years of mule deer hunting mostly in Colorado. I believe the preference point spike in the last few years resulted in many of those units "up & comers" being harvested as hunters who have waited 10+ years to hunt are killing those younger 160-170 class bucks and leaving the bad genetics to breed. That being said, I do know of a couple of great bucks that were killed in the basin this year and believe there will always be a few great bucks taken there. I personally believe the basin needs a management hunt similar to what Utah does over on the Henry's. The management tags should come from the overall allotment - not a tag increase. On a final note, I saw the biggest 2 point in the basin this year that I have personally ever seen. 27-29" wide with 16-17" G-2s.
 
Lawerence
How big of bucks were shot in the Basin this year. Also, by chance did anyone hear of any bucks over 200" shot out of Eagle/Gypsum?

I have shot a couple of big bucks but want to shoot something at the next level. 220 plus would be the next level. Is that unrealistic for the Basin units? Thanks again and I'm NOT looking for a honey hole or your personal hot spot. Gracias
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-25-13 AT 06:32PM (MST)[p]Lawerence, I agree with you 100 percent. Something has got to change in the Gunnison Basin. I can't speak so much for the units south of hwy 50. But we are still along ways from getting back to the glory years. I feel our DNR is wasting more time and money trying to save the sage grouse and putting the well being of our deer herd on the back burner is wrong. I still can't figure out why they increased the number of buck tags this year. I get guys every year calling wanting to book hunts for the third season in 54 and I just can't take a guys money and PP's and not feel confident that Im not going to give him the quality of hunt he expects. I took a shot this year and guided a archery hunt and it only confirmed to me why I don't guide rifle hunts in 54. I saw a fair amount of 2-3 year old bucks taking rides on the back of four wheelers in the second season (I finished guiding the second season and didn't stick around for 3rd.) that werent the kind of bucks that should be getting harvested. Legal, yes... good for our deer herd no. I feel guys build up all these points and feel that they are entitled to kill a 200 inch deer.. but things don't go the way they expect it to and they settle for alot less because they don't want to eat tags. But what puzzles me is that Eagle County experienced a bad winter kill in 07/08 and from the time I spend in the area (I was actually out there today looking at bucks) the deer have steadily been coming back better and better each year and the big bucks in the 6-7 year old class are around in numbers. YBO- don't get me wrong there are good bucks in every unit in this state its just a matter of alot of work, luck, and catching the weather and rut right to bring the big boys out of the work. My best advice is go with your gut and hunt hard and enjoy the process. Don't make the hunt about the inches on the deers head, theres alot of pretty bucks that don't score well, but who really cares. Its about harvesting mature bucks. Best of luck to you in what you decide, feel free to PM if you need any help.
 
Co Boy
How correct you are!! I passed on two 180+ bucks on opening morning (3rd season) and the next couple days some nimrods shot the 3-4 year old bucks. Damn, they need a year or two to become mega!! Anyway, I will pm you tomorrow, thanks again
 
I know of two bucks slightly over the 200" mark that were killed. Taking into consideration that I am almost exclusively a public land, DIY mule deer hunter, in my book, a 180" gross is a trophy buck, a 190" gross is a book class buck and any buck over 200" gross is a great buck. Over 220" is a huge threshhold and requires a combination of very unique circumstances - having a governor's tag in your possession comes to mind. I feel comfortable saying that the chances of killing a 220"+ in the basin on public land are very slim. Clearly there are a very few bucks of that caliber that live there as evidenced by the governor's tagholders as recently as last year, but I can't imagine a guy realistically thinking he's going to kill one there in the 2nd or 3rd rifle seasons on public ground.
 
>I know of two bucks slightly
>over the 200" mark that
>were killed. Taking into
>consideration that I am almost
>exclusively a public land, DIY
>mule deer hunter, in my
>book, a 180" gross is
>a trophy buck, a 190"
>gross is a book class
>buck and any buck over
>200" gross is a great
>buck. Over 220" is
>a huge threshhold and requires
>a combination of very unique
>circumstances - having a governor's
>tag in your possession comes
>to mind. I feel
>comfortable saying that the chances
>of killing a 220"+ in
>the basin on public land
>are very slim. Clearly
>there are a very few
>bucks of that caliber that
>live there as evidenced by
>the governor's tagholders as recently
>as last year, but I
>can't imagine a guy realistically
>thinking he's going to kill
>one there in the 2nd
>or 3rd rifle seasons on
>public ground.
+1 man. A 220 buck is a tall order anywhere, any tag
 
Heres the difference IMO
The old man's Nontypical.. scores just a shade over 220
1894dadsbuck.jpg


This is one of my favorite bucks I've had the chance to lay my eyes on and put my hands on. He went a shade over 190, but hes beautiful. The short MB's hurt him but score is just a number when it comes down to it.
7900dscf0033.jpg
 
I tagged along with my brother in law 2nd rifle in 54. We saw 3 175 -180 class bucks. One was dead two were not. Overall deer numbers were pretty poor. Did not see any does where we were hunting. Quite a few 2 and 3 point deer. Way better hunt than 90% of the rest of the state. Best of luck in your choice.
 
Had most of the bucks migrated down to the wintering grounds by the time the 4th season ended?
 
Several things come to mind after reading this post

You want a 220+, show me the guy that doesn't, if you see a 210 are you passing???

You saw 180+ and didn't shoot cause they were 3-4 yrs old, how do you know the age? Lots - and I mean tons of bucks will never exceed 170 if they live to be 15 yrs old, they hit a plateau and that is all they will ever be.

You are asking for details and you don't even know the season structure for the areas being discussed,, based on this complete lack of knowledge what makes you think you are even remotely in the running for killing the fraction of 1% deer you claim to want?? Assuming luck doesn't play in to it which sometimes it does but I wouldn't count on it if I were you.

You need to do more work, and it will strongly resemble real work... uphill both ways and snow up to your ass.

Deer don't migrate cause of the turning of the calendar pages they migrate to where they are vulnerable because to not migrate means they die for sure. The last two yrs have seen some very difficult hunting in the low country cause the snow made upper and upper transitional ranges PERFECT for avoiding bullets and getting laid. Yet the hunters do what the TV shows tell them to do and glass the sage flats endlessly for deer that simply ARE NOT THERE. all the while bemoaning that if their wife would just get them some SWARO's they would see the buck of a lifetime.

What they need to see is fog on their eyeglasses so thick they have to take them off to see their footing and the sweat that is running off their nose enough to melt the little snow they are walking on, bushnells will do just fine.

Now if you pay for the gov tag or lease a truly world class ranch then that changes everything, if you hunt public, diy, in regular seasons and even see a 220 at any range you are a very lucky fellow. To shoot such a beast ,by design not dumb luck, is truly catching lightning in a bottle.
 
I guess I would shoot another 210 buck if he had a 190 frame with two 10" droppers and was 36 inches wide!
Listen, if you spent basically your whole life around dead and living deer you too could age a deer within a year or so most of the time. As far as those two 180 plus deer...I saw the teeth on the carcass, i can assure you neither one was over 4 years old.
You are so correct about the survival of migrating bucks,especially big bucks.
Lastly, getting away from crowds (being in tip top shape) and glassing effectively even on the edges og big sage flats is paramount in killing HODAD bucks. I need to find better boots since I wear out two pairs of "Perfekt Hunters" per year. I guess I should stop road hunting.
 
Uh....... Wow!

YBO

We get it. You're AWESOME! You want a buck that matches and the puny deer that the rest of the peons shoot simply won't do!

This is the internet and you may NOT BE a douchebag but certainly make yourself sound like one. Hopefully I took it wrong but it sure seems like you're about to throw your shoulder out patting yourself on the back.

It sounds like you have been very fortunate in your life to be healthy and probably worked very hard to have the time and money necessary to hunt and kill big deer. But it doesn't sound like you appreciate it very much. I hope I am wrong.

Many will never see a live 200 inch deer and some of them would hunt harder and longer than you trying. Some people are just luckier than others.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
Huntindad4
You are right...you don't know me. No doubt you have no idea how many "tag soups" I've eaten during the past decades. I didn't mean that I've shot a bunch of 200" deer. I have not! I only want to improve on the size/quality of my bucks that I have collected. I surely didn't want it to sound arrogant and narcissistic, we already have a commander in chief who fits that description.
I
I do hunt my ass off and if that sounds over the top, I apoligize.

Happy hunting.
 
No apology necessary for hunting your ass off.

I think this is the one that might have struck me wrong.....

"Co Boy
How correct you are!! I passed on two 180+ bucks on opening morning (3rd season) and the next couple days some nimrods shot the 3-4 year old bucks. Damn, they need a year or two to become mega!! Anyway, I will pm you tomorrow, thanks again"

Some people are perfectly happy with 180 inch deer and they have just as much right to do so as you do to opt out. Many cannot tell a 3-4 year old deer from a 6-7 year old deer. And others still don't give a sheet!

Even you don't have what it takes to pass on a 210 inch deer if it has a 190 inch frame and two ten inch droppers. Gotta let me grow a year or two fella.

See what I mean? Maybe not.



Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
You make some good points huntindad. As I mentioned in earlier comments on this thread. People are so wrapped up in scores. "Whats he score?" "How wide is he?" blah blah blah. If you base your hunts on the score on the animals head you are truly are no better than people like Doyle Moss, whom makes his living off inches not hunts. I've been fortunate myself at a young age to harvest, take part in harvesting and see large bucks and I too used to get wrapped up in scores and all that bs. But when it comes down to it you're already depriving yourself of the true meaning of 'the hunt' worrying about if such and such buck has this many inches on his head. As a passionate mule deer hunter I make my hunts about trying to harvest mature bucks. Bucks that have survived several seasons and know the game. Bucks that don't stand in the sage brush 200 yards off the road for every yahoo to see. Bucks that make me work. Bucks that make me scout, lose sleep at night, outsmart, and sometimes relocate and hopefully harvest. In the end it honestly doesnt matter what he scores. What matters to me is if I harvested a buck that I had to work for and not the average guy had the ability or drive to harvest. (aside from pure luck, which we all need!)

Coloradoboy
 
Huntindad4
Not being a smart ass, but are you aware of the definition of nimrod? I'm thinking you were upset with that term. You might look it up in your dictionary.

The two nimrods that shot those bucks have shot many big animals in there lifetime and the word nimrod is a tribute to them. Look it up.

Like I said...I woud shoot a 36" 210" buck with two ten inch droppers.
 
Leaving aside the whole "saw the teeth" thing, if you know where 3-1/2 yr deer have 180 racks why in the hell are you looking for other places to hunt?? Only thing that makes sense is you can't draw there very often.

But we seem to be getting somewhere on the "need a 220 deer" now we are at need a 190 with character deer, how about a 185 with mass and character??? You see where this is going?? Everybody defines their goals by what they want, (you see a 220 buck with a 240 buck, you shooting the 220? it is, after all, what you wanted?)

The whole trophy thing if you use inches is bass- ackwards in most people's vocabulary, its not what you will SHOOT, it is what will you NOT SHOOT, even if it is a gimme. (my buddy "passes" on animals 3 miles off, not quite a "pass" in my book!)

Isn't your question really "where can I best burn my points and be around big deer?" This is a very easy question to answer based on history, 3-4 regions are the answer and you have too many points for all of them, a good scenario to have. But if you want a realistic chance to see and kill a 220" deer there is no such place. (without paying the price, money fixes everything)

How many people do you know that have multiples on the wall? You don't see Coboy showing his Dad's "wall of 220" bucks" just one. Remember Kirt Darner, it wasn't his big buck that drew attention it was the whole wall of big bucks that made everybody go nuts over the guy, he obviously had it all figured out. (it was almost unbelievable)

Personally I subscribe to coboys theory of trying for old deer and not worrying about the tape measure except as an afterthought, as a means to communicate how big he was, as "huge", "big" and "ginormous" are a bit subjective.

For me to call a deer "big" he is 180+ somebody else might be +/- 10 or more inches off this measurement, I reckon it is all what you are used to seeing more than anything else.

If you have a 210" deer on your wall chances are when you are placed 6' under this will still be your best buck, but the destination is not nearly as important as the journey, if you don't realize this I feel sorry for you. Good luck in your pursuit.
 
"but the destination is not nearly as important as the journey". Exactly! Thats why I will continue to pass on most bucks. The journey keeps getting better as you spend more days afield and not shooting the first decent buck you see. It's not the kill it's the time spent pursuing the greatest big game animal.
Believe me I have shot many small delicious tasting bucks during my years of hunting. As the sun starts to set on me, I want to spend as much time hunting and passing on bucks that I personally I am not interested in. So, more time in spent in the outdoors with my family and friends.

If this is offensive...so be it.

ps. The map I have (Gunnison Basin) is a forest service map. It includes, among others, unit 53 and 63 which have 4th season hunts. Maybe those units are not in the basin???
 
>Yes, your goal is unrealistic.
>Go bid on the governor?s
>tag and hire Brownlee.
>Your goal is now realistic.
> LOL.


Id chop my own arm off, castrate myself and sell every bit of hunting gear I own before I'd have "Mr.Mule Deer" Mike Brownlee hold my hand to a buck. Just my .02 LOL
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-13 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]Concerning Gov tags.. I have mixed emotions. Its off topic to the matter yes, but it pertains to the well being of Colorado's mule deer. Yes, I was involved with a gov tag buck back in 2011. No, i did not do if for Doyle, Mike or anyone else of the matter. And no I did not collect a dime for it, just obtained a life long hunting buddy for the help and support I contributed to help out a guy who was at a severe disadvantage not having the money to hire mossback, but in return having to try and compete with the likes of Doyle, Mike, Kalan and so on... I am personally sick and down right tired of seeing Utah outfitters (Mossback) (Muley Connection) bank off our Deer Herds. It frustrates the hell out of me watching Doyle pull into Eagle or Gunnison with his crew and trigger puller trying to win over the locals and Outfitters with the BLM permits with promises of large checks for Intel on large bucks. Im sick of watching 8-10 out of state trucks and rangers driving all over the gunnison and eagle county winter range. The Colorado Governors Tag has become as out of touch and off track from its initial purpose as Utah's have become. I am all for raising the money for the species like the tag was intended for. But the crooked acts and other bs that comes with it anymore (especially the auction tags) need to stop. I know the DOW is not completely blind to what people like Brownlee do (He's found himself in court plenty as we all know) but they keep allowing him and other out of state outfitters to come and make money off our deer at all costs. What needs to be done first and for most is Local Colorado Outfitters need to book these hunts at the banquet in Grand Junction, not Doyle and Brownlee. I could honestly give two chits if Colorado loses Denny Austad and Robert Kay's money...

Coloradoboy
 
So YBO, you were calling them mighty hunters?

Well it's hard to always tell what a person is feeling in a comment on the internet I hardly believe that is the definition you were intending. I think you were probably going for definition number two which is a dim witted person.

But that's only my opinion.

I'm with squirrel if you've found a unit with 180+ inch 3-1/2 year olds running around being shot buy nimrods wel you just might have your hunting spot.

Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 
Thank you to those that posted info and personal opinions on the Gunny Basin. To the rest that want to ridicule and make assumptions, I regress.
 
>Thank you to those that posted
>info and personal opinions on
>the Gunny Basin. To the
>rest that want to ridicule
>and make assumptions, I regress.
>
 
>>Thank you to those that posted
>>info and personal opinions on
>>the Gunny Basin. To the
>>rest that want to ridicule
>>and make assumptions, I regress.
>>


Thank you!
 
Where I would normally see 10-12 decent bucks in 54 now I see 4 after the huge winter die off.
I think it is still recovering slowly but will depend on how mother nature treats it in the winters to follow.
Still a few big bucks but not like it used to be.
Best,
Jerry
 
COboy I commend your attitude and I think it is damn gracious of you to help out that lottery winner. Now lets see what this winter does to us.
 
>COboy I commend your attitude and
>I think it is damn
>gracious of you to help
>out that lottery winner.
>Now lets see what this
>winter does to us.


Thank you, it means more to me to see a average joe that works a real job take a good buck on a tag of a lifetime. I don't need money to reimburse my efforts to make someone else's dream come true. Its off to a hell of a start as of today. Im two feet deep in white stuff at my house. Pretty excited for this stuff to break so I can go see if any bruisers have dumped into the low country!
 
>Hey, I want a 220" buck
>too. Can you guys direct
>me to one?
>
>Zeke


Sure zeke we'll get you on the waiting list with the rest of us! LMAO
 
YBO GMU'S 53 and 63 are managed out of CPW area 16 but are not
geographically considered to be "In the Basin" Hell I think they use euro dollars down there. There is not a 4th season in "the basin" and it looks like we wont have one for 2014 either.

The falls of 2004 through 2007 were a one time anomaly. Those conditions were a once in a life time occurrence and shall never again be seen. I could type pages as to why but don't have the time or desire. I 'll just say we will not and should not ever
have that number of MATURE Mule deer ever again. Will the Gunnison basins GMU'S 54,55,551,67and 66 be good again? Hell yes they are the best managed Units in the state by design. Just remember this is a social decision not a biological one. biologically you should not try and manage a mule deer herd for 40 to 45 bucks per 100 does in an area that has severe winter mortality at least once a decade. CPW has these DAU plans with these high sex ratio's because of local pressure and input. It is very expensive, monetarily, To the residents of this County and to CPW. It is emotionally expensive and there are lost friendships, respect and cooperation in this Basin. To the new comers and visitors who hunted, photographed, or just watched deer in this basin 04 to 07...your "welcome" from some one who lived through close to 20 years of less then 10 bucks per 100 does post hunt.

Gov tag's...It got way out of hand and will now be stopped. 2013 is the last year auction or raffle guys will hunt Mule Deer on the West slope in December.

The good news is that at 40 to 45 bucks per 100 does. Every one of the above posters "expectations" will be fulfilled. What I mean is every age class will be represented. Not in the numbers of 04 to 07 but a "few" of each class will exist. A very few people will actually harvest their goal. Some lucky and easy, some sweaty and invested. some with double digit preference points, some with paid for vouchers and Gov tags.

It is what it is. It will never be what it was.
Why don't we all go hunting in the season and unit with the highest buck to doe ratio we have the points, patients or dollars to get the tag.
 
Thanks, Brad. Well stated. I always appreciate your thoughtful and well-informed posts. I love the Basin and still hope I am able to hunt there someday - and soon.

Hope the winter is not treating you badly either.
 
>YBO GMU'S 53 and 63 are
>managed out of CPW area
>16 but are not
>geographically considered to be "In the
>Basin" Hell I think they
>use euro dollars down there.
>There is not a 4th
>season in "the basin" and
>it looks like we wont
>have one for 2014 either.
>
>
>The falls of 2004 through 2007
>were a one time anomaly.
> Those conditions were a
>once in a life time
>occurrence and shall never again
>be seen. I could type
>pages as to why but
>don't have the time or
>desire. I 'll just
>say we will not and
>should not ever
>have that number of MATURE Mule
>deer ever again.
>Will the Gunnison basins GMU'S
>54,55,551,67and 66 be good again?
>Hell yes they are the
>best managed Units in the
>state by design. Just
>remember this is a social
>decision not a biological one.
>biologically you should not try
>and manage a mule deer
>herd for 40 to 45
>bucks per 100 does in
>an area that has severe
>winter mortality at least once
>a decade. CPW has these
>DAU plans with these high
>sex ratio's because of local
>pressure and input. It is
>very expensive, monetarily, To
>the residents of this County
>and to CPW. It is
>emotionally expensive and there are
>lost friendships, respect and
>cooperation in this Basin. To
>the new comers and visitors
>who hunted, photographed, or just
>watched deer in this basin
>04 to 07...your "welcome" from
>some one who lived through
>close to 20 years of
>less then 10 bucks per
>100 does post hunt.
>
>Gov tag's...It got way out of
>hand and will now be
>stopped. 2013 is
>the last year auction or
>raffle guys will hunt Mule
>Deer on the West slope
>in December.
>
>The good news is that at
>40 to 45 bucks per
>100 does. Every one
>of the above posters "expectations"
>will be fulfilled. What I
>mean is every age class
>will be represented. Not
>in the numbers of 04
>to 07 but a "few"
>of each class will exist.
>A very few people will
>actually harvest their goal.
>Some lucky and easy, some
>sweaty and invested. some with
>double digit preference points, some
>with paid for vouchers and
>Gov tags.
>
>It is what it is. It
>will never be what it
>was.
>Why don't we all go hunting
>in the season and unit
>with the highest buck to
>doe ratio we have the
>points, patients or dollars
>to get the tag.
>


Well said Brad! I couldn't agree more. I wasn't aware of the changes for the 2014 gov tags?? Thats good news in my opinion. Hoping to see you at some 3d shoots this winter. Im thinking ill make the trip down this weekend to shoot if the roads allow for it.

Coloradoboy
 
Tomichi, got a link or hard source for that gov tag stuff??? To bad it doesn't end at the last day of 4th but it will do. Pm sent call at your convenience thanks. DOW will be pissed at the paycut, excellent news.
 
Squirrel,got both call you tonight.
Icm We need to talk.
CB The roads will be good. Come down. Set up take down will be better this year....NO HAY BALES! alot less sweeping!
We bought more nets to catch the flyers. Watch the dumpsters we need more ugly old fake x-mas trees.

Any other archers out there the West Elk Archers is having a indoor 3-D Sunday the 15th 1PM at the rodeo grounds. 1 Block South of the west side of Safeway main, drag Gunnison.
Shoot dogs and glass deer on your way up!
 
Sorry but the governors tags are not going away and they should not go away. It is sad to think that you are willing to punish every lucky person who gets that tag moving forward because of a very small group of people who do not play by the rules. You should expect strong opposition to your one sided plan.

I completely disagree we should cut put the tag. We are talking about 4 tags a year. If the deer populations can not handle 4 mature bucks being taken then we have bigger issues.

Simply put too many. People are overly jealous of the select few. Get your torches anditch forks all you want, but expect some resistance. If you have an issue with the big outfitters the range violations and the big money involved, the attack that, but do not take away my chance on a tag.

If you are so concerned about it are you moving to ban all human activity? Snowmobiling, cross country skiing, photography, off reading, rabbit hunting, coyote hunting, lion hunting, duck and goose, driving, etc.

Sorry but I do not see the governor tag being so cut and dry. Andi really hate the big outfitters, money etc. but I am also not willing to make such a big change that will effect my opportunity when I am the lucky sob you hate so much with a tag.
 
I've never considered myself lucky enough to draw a governor?s tag, so I've never put in. Probably didn't want to spend the extra money either. Who puts on the raffle for the two buck tags?

I agree. Go after Brownlee, Mossback, etc? You?re talking about four flipping tags! It's the outfitters doing the harm, not the tags.
 
I think it was more of issue with harressment of deer on winter range in one of the coldest areas in the west where the animals can't leave the basin. They had multiple guides and aircraft doing patrols of the area to single out one rare buck.

I commend the gunnison residents for stopping this nonsense. I've been applying since 2006 for a 66/67 buck tag and have since moved out of state, so I realize it may be a couple more years before I get my chance. Its a limited resource with lots of outside pressure.
 
>I think it was more of
>issue with harressment of deer
>on winter range in one
>of the coldest areas in
>the west where the animals
>can't leave the basin. They
>had multiple guides and aircraft
>doing patrols of the area
>to single out one rare
>buck.
>
>I commend the gunnison residents for
>stopping this nonsense. I've been
>applying since 2006 for a
>66/67 buck tag and have
>since moved out of state,
>so I realize it may
>be a couple more years
>before I get my chance.
>Its a limited resource with
>lots of outside pressure.

Then stop the people doing it. Flying with aircraft is against the law while hunting. Change the rules to address the issues with finders fees etc. Hell, make it like the night hunting permit. Before your allowed to hunt in the unit you have to call the unit manager the day before at 5:00pm to enter the unit once the regular seasons have ended. Then the unit manager knows who and when.

The bigger issue here is the lack of enforcement and the lack proper penalties for these wildlife violations. I would be a 100% for a special set of regs/with extra high penalties for any premium tags. Or regulations that only allow the hunter and up to 4 others to be in the unit. We are talking about areas that are typically already closed to motorized travel, that should be protected under various rules etc. The problem is the penalties do not hurt enough to detour people when the rewards can be so high. Hell make it wildlife harassment to enter an area closed to vehicles that late. Then write a reg. that would allow for 10 points to hit the violator.

Ultimately I would hate to see those guys lucky enough to get the tag through a raffle to be penalized from this point forward because one or 2 tag holders a year are wrapped up in the big money.

It the same mentality of banning high capacity magazines because a very small percentage of people may use one to commit a crime.

I say shut down the nonresident guides and get allow only guides licensed in that unit to hunt. If a person want to hunt the Gunnison basin with a guide in the later seasons then they should have to use the guides that have been there for years hunting the regular seasons etc.

I have never really figured out how a Utah guide can come into Colorado and snipe our deer and money. I would figure the other guides would have prevented this, furthermore if we stepped up the penalties we should be able to write enough tickets that said outfitters would loose guiding privileges in this state for ever.

Either way, I would never advocate for general public hunters to loose opportunity, access, etc. because of the actions of a few rich out of state guides.
 
there are rules in place in regards to providing a service for compensation on Federal land, both USFS and BLM. An outfitter must be permitted in a specific area to provide a service commercially.
Enforcement is another story, there are very few law enforcement personnel over vast land areas. similar to the number of DWM's for the state. With budget cuts and sequestration law enforcements are shrinking, this is reality today.
 
>there are rules in place in
>regards to providing a service
>for compensation on Federal land,
>both USFS and BLM. An
>outfitter must be permitted in
>a specific area to provide
>a service commercially.
>Enforcement is another story, there are
>very few law enforcement personnel
>over vast land areas. similar
>to the number of DWM's
>for the state. With budget
>cuts and sequestration law enforcements
>are shrinking, this is reality
>today.
So what if a couple of the big hunter organizations stepped up in these areas of special concerns and helped fund an additional amount of enforcement for the 6 weeks that occur outside the regular season? I know during regular seasons there are more DOW guys in my unit than the one guy who is actually in charge. Or getting volunteers to patrol only with video cameras for illegal activity. If anything is witnessed, record it and hand it over.

I agree that lack of enforcement is becoming a big deal. This year I started packing my video camera with 50x optical zoom I'm my pocket. I caught 3 different guys trespassing. Turned all 3 in and all 3 were charged. If I .ive in the basin I would be willing to organize with others and spent sometime on some organized patrols.

Also the idea of each night contacting the warden to let them know where and how many are hunting could really help also. I do it everything I go night hunting.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-13 AT 00:57AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-13 AT 00:53?AM (MST)

elks96 you make a lot of good points that I agree with for the most part. Like I stated in early posts Colorado's AUCTION Governors tags have gotten completely out of touch with what the tags were initially intended for. Much like Utah's... Yes the money that goes back into the species is great blah blah blah but the crooked acts and out of state outfitters pocketing money off them and going through other outfitters to use their permits is some crooked, shady horsesh%t. As far as I know Doyle, nor Brownlee is involved with any of the tags, (but they are damn sure trying to be) and only one of the tags has been filled as of a couple days ago. Which was a raffle tag. And it wasn't even taken in the basin. I agree with the statement you made earlier elks96 that if our state wide deer herd cannot handle 4 top end, mature bucks taken out of it each year. We truly do have bigger problems than trying to eliminate Governors tags hunting after 4th season.... As far as the lack of enforcement with these tags. I agree, there is too much that gets away and is swept under the rug. When these tags are issued (I've seen one in my hands along with the paper work) the DOW issues a letter that addresses the regulations and rules. One of them is that the Hunter call and notify DOW as too which area they are hunting. Which the hunter I helped out did.. Can't speak for Mossback, they just kinda show up from area to area with an army and money. I know good and well this rule gets forgot about on the DOW's part. I feel the first good alternative is that once a buck has been harvested in a given unit that unit is CLOSED to the remainder of the GOV tags. Another thing that I feel needs to be done, and i stated it before. Is that out of state outfitters SHOULD not be allowed to guide these tags. The money spent and donated towards our mule deer should also go back into our local economy (In state outfitters) not to people like Doyle Moss, Mike Brownlee, Kalan Lemon etc... All in all, Governors tags will always be a controversial event and topic amongst hunters. Along with those involved with them, including those trying to help an Average Joe who's lucked out and pulled the raffled tag. Most of which have a family, job, commitments, and a average wallet. I know I for one wouldn't turn down a gov tag nor the help if I ever lucked out and won one...

Coloradoboy
 
I heard rumor that you were occupying all of your time by chasing a world record forky all over the hills. :D

We saw one last year, but he was on his decline and was old enough to have seen that 07-08 winter. That's the problem there right now, the age class of bucks you're really looking for aren't there because they either had to survive it or the does had to carry them to term. I'm still thinking 2016, maybe 2015, and it'll be a different story. The genetics are there, but boy howdy, if those pretty middle aged 4pts have the slightest bit of kickers or in-lines they're getting shot!




>I've spent quite a bit of
>time in the basin over
>the last several years.
>In my opinion, the basin
>is not on the upswing,
>it's on a decline.
>I have not seen more
>3 points in my 31
>years of mule deer hunting
>mostly in Colorado. I
>believe the preference point spike
>in the last few years
>resulted in many of those
>units "up & comers" being
>harvested as hunters who have
>waited 10+ years to hunt
>are killing those younger 160-170
>class bucks and leaving the
>bad genetics to breed.
>That being said, I do
>know of a couple of
>great bucks that were killed
>in the basin this year
>and believe there will always
>be a few great bucks
>taken there. I personally
>believe the basin needs a
>management hunt similar to what
>Utah does over on the
>Henry's. The management tags
>should come from the overall
>allotment - not a tag
>increase. On a final
>note, I saw the biggest
>2 point in the basin
>this year that I have
>personally ever seen. 27-29"
>wide with 16-17" G-2s.
 
220" have you considered a High Country early rifle tag?


"WHEN INJUSTICE BECOMES LAW" "REVOLUTION
BECOMES DUTY" unknown

Windage and elevation pilgrim windage and elevation
 
>Several things come to mind after
>reading this post
>
>You want a 220+, show me
>the guy that doesn't, if
>you see a 210 are
>you passing???
>
>You saw 180+ and didn't shoot
>cause they were 3-4 yrs
>old, how do you know
>the age? Lots -
>and I mean tons of
>bucks will never exceed 170
>if they live to be
>15 yrs old, they hit
>a plateau and that is
>all they will ever be.
>
>
>You are asking for details and
>you don't even know the
>season structure for the areas
>being discussed,, based on this
>complete lack of knowledge what
>makes you think you are
>even remotely in the running
>for killing the fraction of
>1% deer you claim to
>want?? Assuming luck doesn't play
>in to it which sometimes
>it does but I wouldn't
>count on it if I
>were you.
>
>You need to do more work,
>and it will strongly resemble
>real work... uphill both ways
>and snow up to your
>ass.
>
>Deer don't migrate cause of the
>turning of the calendar pages
>they migrate to where they
>are vulnerable because to not
>migrate means they die for
>sure. The last two
>yrs have seen some very
>difficult hunting in the low
>country cause the snow made
>upper and upper transitional ranges
>PERFECT for avoiding bullets and
>getting laid. Yet the
>hunters do what the TV
>shows tell them to do
>and glass the sage flats
>endlessly for deer that simply
>ARE NOT THERE. all the
>while bemoaning that if their
>wife would just get them
>some SWARO's they would
>see the buck of a
>lifetime.
>
> What they need to
>see is fog on their
>eyeglasses so thick they have
>to take them off to
>see their footing and the
>sweat that is running off
>their nose enough to melt
>the little snow they are
>walking on, bushnells will do
>just fine.
>
>Now if you pay for the
>gov tag or lease a
>truly world class ranch then
>that changes everything, if you
>hunt public, diy, in regular
>seasons and even see a
>220 at any range you
>are a very lucky fellow.
> To shoot such a
>beast ,by design not dumb
>luck, is truly catching lightning
>in a bottle.


YES!!! You sir are speaking the truth. I walked last 4th season til I couldn't any more. maybe 60 miles in a week. DIdnt see that dream buck at any elevation. Took a 167 second to last night. Shot a 222 gross in velvet one year... out of 10 hard years hunting. and hes only 201 all scraped and mounted... DIY public land and in CO
 
I was encouraged of what I saw Mid Jan. Still several years away to spend that many points. DOW should of just shut the unit down after the blizzard. But instead, said it was not that bad and gave out tags. I could glass ridges in May and see 30 dead deer in 08. Deer made it to feed sites and never got up to eat. Died right there. I did see some 4 point bucks in the fall of 08. Maybe 5. They do not want that many deer in the basin again. This is why they increased buck tags. It would be a needle in a haystack to find what your looking for right now. There are still a few. You waited that long, what is another couple years.
 
>I was encouraged of what I
>saw Mid Jan. Still several
>years away to spend that
>many points. DOW should of
>just shut the unit down
>after the blizzard. But instead,
>said it was not that
>bad and gave out tags.
>I could glass ridges in
>May and see 30 dead
>deer in 08. Deer made
>it to feed sites and
>never got up to eat.
>Died right there. I did
>see some 4 point bucks
>in the fall of 08.
>Maybe 5. They do not
>want that many deer in
>the basin again. This is
>why they increased buck tags.
>It would be a needle
>in a haystack to find
>what your looking for right
>now. There are still a
>few. You waited that long,
>what is another couple years.
>


Yep.They don't want that PR nightmare again from carrying too many deer so it amounts to more tags and high grading of the middle age classes. Some will slip through the cracks though.
 
I agree with tx_packmule.

When I talked with the game warden in 54 a couple years ago and I spoke longingly of what we had in the 06 season there he talked about how bad the health of the herd was and there was 65:100 buck to doe ratio and they will never let it get that "bad" again, it told me what their objective is for the future in the basin.



Bill

People who work for a living are quickly being
overwhelmed by people who vote for a living.
 

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